Support NeoGAF

[Shin Johnpv]

Hell i can get 8 gig of ddr3 1600Mhz ram(Corsair Vengeance) for around 66 euro from retailers i imaging by then microsoft could get that for 30 or so probably cheaper too.

Using DDR3 ram like that in a console would cripple it. Consoles don't use standard desktop ram, they use much much much faster, and much more expensive ram like GDDR5.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Too lazy to do all the quotes, but:
A 6950 isn't just a bit slower than a gtx580, it's like 30 percent slower. (to compare, a hd6950 is about 85 percent faster than a hd4870)
But yeah, nvidia cards are still hilariously overpriced compared to amd equivalents.

A 6870 isn't 200 dollars, you can get them for 160 already.

XBox360 has a lot more problems than rrod that show that it's rushed.
External power brick that gets extremely hot, noisy dvd drive that is prone to breaking, no HDMI port in the launch units (fuck this so much, i hate having to use component), the cheap 2cent clip that holds the USB ports cover on and breaks at first use , it crashes/freezes during hot weather, it's loud as a mofo.
Those all scream rushed design/poor build quality.

Using DDR3 ram like that in a console would cripple it. Consoles don't use standard desktop ram, they use much much much faster, and much more expensive ram like GDDR5.

Doesn't matter if you go for a split ram pool.
Main ram can be slower ddr3 then.

People go hur hur ps3 split ram pool sucks (because that's what they heard and isn't aping stuff fun), no it doesn't it only sucks because there is too little ram.
Xbox has too little ram too but at least the gpu can properly access all of it.
If you have enough v ram there is no issue with it (like pcs prove time and again).

 

[BurntPork]

This stuff is not new. Look at Dreamcast, how Sony said PS2 will be X more powerful. Or, when X360, Sony did same thing with PS3.

And, early adopters are mostly HC gamers. They can be persuaded by graphic power talks.

Most "hardcore" gamers know that Wii U will be far behind graphically and have already decided against Wii U if they want true next-gen graphics that badly. No one expects Wii U to be competitive graphically. The people who would be led to "think twice" are already doing so. If Nintendo shocks us all between now and E3 and shows that Wii U is a powerhouse, then yeah, they would benefit a little, maybe. However, it would really take A LOT for Nintendo to convince people that Wii U won't be surpassed. They will talk about how many times more powerful it is than Wii U, but it'll be to hype their own system, not to steal sales.

 

[knitoe]

First off, you're using CoD as a benchmark. There hasn't been any massive leaps since CoD4 and we're many games beyond that. They're still using a heavily modified Quake 3 engine, FFS. Second, whatever hardware ends up being in the 2013 consoles WILL be more powerful than whatever hardware Nintendo's put into the WiiU... but it will not be "left behind" for ports unless publishers specifically choose to, not because of hardware. A multicore PowerPC and a modern Radeon HD with architecture that is current (and not fixed-pipeline like the TEV in Wii) guarantees that.

Even with its 90's era technology, the Wii got ports of every CoD other than MW2 - and they were well ported to suit the hardware. They sold well, too, and had near-equivalent online modes.

Wonder why there hasn't been a giant leap since COD4. Lets see, when you build a new engine to take advantage of 10X more power, you probably get that leap. When, the hardware stays the same for next 7 years, no way you are getting anywhere close to that giant leap again. I am hoping X720 offers the same giant leap.

The Wii ports hardly sale as well. Hard for anyone to buy them if they could go with the X360 / PS3 version.

Activision doesn't care. They'll beat anything EA puts out easily, so they'll just make it closer to the PC version, perhaps with better textures, and advertise the better frame rate. Then, once both consoles are out, they'll upgrade the engine. (Though they will make it possible to scale down to Wii U easily.) CoD isn't about graphics; it's about sales.

COD only became a unstoppable monster after COD4. You don't think phrase like "most realistic graphics..." had much to do with that? What about all the talks about BF3 this year. Graphics plays a big deal. If BF5 comes out and blows away COD7 on the X720. That's a big leg up from the start and could make Battlefield the dominate FPS franchise next gen. If Activsion is smart, and there are billions of reasons to say yes, they are going to be pushing the envelope too on X720 / PS4.

 

[knitoe]

Most "hardcore" gamers know that Wii U will be far behind graphically and have already decided against Wii U if they want true next-gen graphics that badly. No one expects Wii U to be competitive graphically. The people who would be led to "think twice" are already doing so. If Nintendo shocks us all between now and E3 and shows that Wii U is a powerhouse, then yeah, they would benefit a little, maybe. However, it would really take A LOT for Nintendo to convince people that Wii U won't be surpassed. They will talk about how many times more powerful it is than Wii U, but it'll be to hype their own system, not to steal sales.

There are many people who thinks X720 / PS4 will only be 2-3X more powerful. If that's the case, you really can't tell much of a difference. Thus, Microsoft / Sony will need to show tidbits of info or some teasers.

 

[mckmas8808]

I could see Sony come out of the left field and announce some PS4 tidbits at TGS, launching it Q4 2012 or Q1 2013.

And spoiling the party for PS Vita? Why?

 

[BurntPork]

There are many people who thinks X720 / PS4 will only be 2-3X more powerful. If that's the case, you really can't tell much of a difference. Thus, Microsoft / Sony will need to show tidbits of info or some teasers.

The people who believe that are mostly Nintendo fans.They are going to have teasers, and they are going to compare it to Wii U. However, the people who are going to think twice will do so the second Sony/MS announces a console for 2013.

 

[JJD]

I hope Sony doesn't try to copy WiiU controller. They already can do similar stuff with Vita, which isn't even released yet. Make it possible to Vita to be a PS4 controller. With the money they would economize just get the hardware specs as high as possible. Plus it would be another way to get people buying their $250 handheld.

I would be willing to pay $399 if the system's really powerful.

 

[Vinci]

I hope Sony doesn't try to copy WiiU controller. They already can do similar stuff with Vita, which isn't even released yet. Make it possible to Vita to be a PS4 controller. With the money they would economize just get the hardware specs as high as possible. Plus it would be another way to get people buying their $250 handheld.

To clarify: You don't want them to copy the Wii U controller, but you want them to make Vita into something similar? Or you don't?

 

[DaSorcerer7]

I hope Sony doesn't try to copy WiiU controller. They already can do similar stuff with Vita, which isn't even released yet. Make it possible to Vita to be a PS4 controller. With the money they would economize just get the hardware specs as high as possible. Plus it would be another way to get people buying their $250 handheld.

To clarify: You don't want them to copy the Wii U controller, but you want them to make Vita into something similar? Or you don't?

lol..fanboy double talk

 

[BurntPork]

To clarify: You don't want them to copy the Wii U controller, but you want them to make Vita into something similar? Or you don't?

He's saying that he doesn't want them to copy it because it would cut into the console's budget and Vita makes it unnecessary to make a controller for that.

 

[StevieP]

He's saying that he doesn't want them to copy it because it would cut into the console's budget and Vita makes it unnecessary to make a controller for that.

But it doesn't. The Wii U uses AMD "Eyefinity" type tech to make the UPad into a second screen, in a similar way that you'd have a second LCD on your PC. There is also wireless technology specifically dedicated to streaming to the controller with 0 lag. You simply can't do that with the Vita and PS4.

Nevermind the fact that nobody is going to be paying $250 per controller. You'd have developer support akin to Nintendo's failed GBA-Gamecube experiment at best. Simple maps and inventory screens is a different animal, but that's clearly not the only use of the UPad and is more like the afformentioned GBA-GC. Peripherals will always be peripherals - and get peripheral support.

 

[Yopis]

No red ring or dre = me happy for next gen.

 

[Mindlog]

A $250 controller sounds like a good plan. The cost savings can be put into more RAM for PS4. 16GB at least.

 

[Luckyman]

Of course they'll be more powerful. But not enough that it'll make porting engines impossible.

Wii U is stuck on a 4670 variant according to Eurogamer Digitalfoundry. How sad is that.

Mark Rein simply says if you launch console today He does not expect one for few years. Epic is the first people to have specs

 

[Jonm1010]

I hope Sony doesn't try to copy WiiU controller. They already can do similar stuff with Vita, which isn't even released yet. Make it possible to Vita to be a PS4 controller. With the money they would economize just get the hardware specs as high as possible. Plus it would be another way to get people buying their $250 handheld.

I would be willing to pay $399 if the system's really powerful.

Fuck, I'll pay 599 if the thing runs the Samaritan demo at good frame-rates and 1080p.

Then again after the initial shock of PS3's announcement I was fine with that price tag.

Way I see it, if im going to buy something that is going to be around for 5-8 years Im cool with a higher upfront cost knowing it should age better.

Though I realize i'm in the minority. Im pretty sure Microsoft and Sony are designing their next system with the idea of building around a price point that will allow them a profit within only a couple years of being out.

 

[charsace]

MS console will most likely have graphic tech that is slightly ahead of whatever is out on pc at the time it releases. That was the case with the Xbox and the 360.

 

[Zoramon089]

Wii U is stuck on a 4670 variant according to Eurogamer Digitalfoundry. How sad is that.

Mark Rein simply says if you launch console today He does not expect one for few years. Epic is the first people to have specs

I don't want to get banned again so I just won't say anything

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I expect both the next Xbox and PS4 to have at least 4 GB RAM. That's only 8x more than Xbox 360 and PS3.

What would really make a difference is if PS4 had Rambus Terabyte Bandwidth Initiative. Then I would expect a split pool of 2 GB TBI (call it XDR3 or whatever) and 2 GB GDDR5.

http://www.rambus.com/in/technology/innovations/tbi/index.html
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/new...th-initiative-looks-to-2010-many-core-era.ars

TBI/XDR3 was supposed to be ready in 2010 or 2011, but got pushed back. Of course it could be ready for PS4 in 2013.

 

[StevieP]

I don't want to get banned again so I just won't say anything

If he can evade the banhammer (despite posting factual inaccuracies like that), you should be able to do the same.

I expect both the next Xbox and PS4 to have at least 4 GB RAM. That's only 8x more than Xbox 360 and PS3.

What would really make a difference is if PS4 had Rambus Terabyte Bandwidth Initiative. Then I would expect a split pool of 2 GB TBI (call it XDR3 or whatever) and 2 GB GDDR5.

If $599 OK with everyone, all of a sudden?

 

[JJD]

To clarify: You don't want them to copy the Wii U controller, but you want them to make Vita into something similar? Or you don't?

I was never interested in those "alternative" control methods. I have a Wii but I hate it's motion controls, don't plan on buying either move or kinect.

The point I was trying to make is that if Sony wants a similar experience to WiiU, they don't need to expend resources to develop and bundle a controller with a screen on every system, thus rising the overall price. They can just market Vita as a premium controller. It could be a new selling point for their handheld. If it was well implemented I would even buy one, and I'm not big on handheld gaming.

People are already arguing that an extra WiiU controller is going to be expensive. What's the percentage of the controller costs on the WiiU overall price? We don't know it yet.

If Microsoft wants a similar experience to WiiU, they will have to develop a new controller since they don't have a handheld, and that's costly. As I said Sony can just use Vita. I've seen some quotes of Sony execs around here that say they already considered this possibility, and that it's possible, at least on a technical level.

I'm sorry, my english probably isn't very good and I was not very clear! (I don't even know if I'm being clear enough now! Lol).

If it were up to me PS4 and Xbox720 would ship with the same controllers that they're using today.

 

[Jocchan]

Wii U is stuck on a 4670 variant according to Eurogamer Digitalfoundry. How sad is that.

Link?

 

[JJD]

He's saying that he doesn't want them to copy it because it would cut into the console's budget and Vita makes it unnecessary to make a controller for that.

Thanks, that's exactly what I was trying to say. You're much more succinct too. ;-)

 

[szaromir]

MS console will most likely have graphic tech that is slightly ahead of whatever is out on pc at the time it releases. That was the case with the Xbox and the 360.

Maybe it'll have a state of the art GPU feature-wise, but it'll fall far behind PC in terms of horsepower. It's not like there could be an innovation in GPU tech comparable to unified shaders in 360 though.

 

[StevieP]

Link?

He's a hit-and-run troller. Don't bother.

If it were up to me PS4 and Xbox720 would ship with the same controllers that they're using today.

If it were up to hardcore gamers to want to evolve, we'd still be playing on these:

 

[TheExecutive]

MS really wants dat one year head start over sony again.

That wont happen again. Bluray and all of the components in the PS4 will already hold shelf space. I wouldnt be surprised if sony released 6 months before the xbox3.

 

[MDX]

I would be willing to pay $399 if the system's really powerful.

Define "really powerful"

 

[SpacLock]

I doubt it. It says nothing about Windows 9 and DX14 being on the machine.

 

[TheExecutive]

I hope Sony doesn't try to copy WiiU controller. They already can do similar stuff with Vita, which isn't even released yet. Make it possible to Vita to be a PS4 controller. With the money they would economize just get the hardware specs as high as possible. Plus it would be another way to get people buying their $250 handheld.

I would be willing to pay $399 if the system's really powerful.

What developer in their right mind would use the vita for a PS3 controller? No developer will spend the resources to link the two together... if its even possible without terrible lag that is.

 

[JJD]

He's a hit-and-run troller. Don't bother.



If it were up to hardcore gamers to want to evolve, we'd still be playing on these:

If it were up to most hardcore gamers and me we'd be using a K&M already on our consoles. After the analog stick was introduced on the N64 every single controller innovation to me was dispensable. Besides rumble and motion sensing (ugh...) PS3 dualshock 3 performs exactly the same as the analog PS1 controller which was released what? Almost 13 years ago. Most people are fine with it.

And yeah I know about the pressure sensitive buttons, but does anyone care really?

Define "really powerful"

Come on man, I'm not a techie. As powerful as they can get with a budget of four hundred dollars. I'm not a Sony shareholder, sell it at a loss or at least make it even. If they make money for the start on every console sold you will know that they could have pushed the specs further. That's what nintendo's doing almost since the Gamecube.

 

[StevieP]

If it were up to most hardcore gamers and me we'd be using a K&M already on our consoles. After the analog stick was introduced on the N64 every single controller innovation to me was dispensable. Besides rumble and motion sensing (ugh...) PS3 dualshock 3 performs exactly the same as the analog PS1 controller which was released what? Almost 13 years ago. Most people are fine with it.

And yeah I know about the pressure sensitive buttons, but does anyone care really?

Keyword is highlighted.
Infrared aiming is the biggest innovation since the analog stick in the console space, and it's a shame that (because of hardcore gamers so stuck in their ways) it will be going the way of the dodo next gen.

 

[MDX]

If it were up to most hardcore gamers and me we'd be using a K&M already on our consoles.

Because that works so well while sitting on the couch.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Because that works so well while sitting on the couch.

About as well as trying to aim with an analog stick (which is why the game has to do the aiming for you).

 

[JJD]

Because that works so well while sitting on the couch.

You should see the couch I'm planning to use on my future gaming PC setup. I bet you'd be envious!

Keyword is highlighted.
Infrared aiming is the biggest innovation since the analog stick in the console space, and it's a shame that (because of hardcore gamers so stuck in their ways) it will be going the way of the dodo next gen.

Well pardon me, but it's the hardcore gamer that has kept this industry going foward past the turbulent waters of popular fads such as motion controls. If infrared aiming was such a beautiful thing Nintendo wouldn't be abandoning it after just a generation.

Oh yeah, I forgot...they're after the stuck up in their ways hardcore gamer!

 

[Radec]

Is this the same Crytek that said 8gb of ram or BUST ?

 

[Doffen]

If $599 OK with everyone, all of a sudden?

At release? Yes.

 

[Vinci]

Well pardon me, but it's the hardcore gamer that has kept this industry going foward past the turbulent waters of popular fads such as motion controls.

Um... no? Not in any measurable way. Casual gamers have always been the lifeblood of the industry. Wait, no. I forgot. GTA is hardcore now, as is Madden. And Halo. And COD.

EDIT: And fuck no, $599 at launch is not okay.

 

[JJD]

At release? Yes.

I don't know if 600 dollars at release is OK with most people. If they (Sony or Microsoft) have the software to validate this price (which Sony didn't have at PS3's launch) then at least it would be understandable to many but not all.

The point is, early adopters are OK to pay a premium to have something sooner than most people, even if it's not worth it.

I would rather pay $600 to have a state of the art PS4 or 720 than pay 299 to get 2 PS3 or 360 taped together if you get my analogy!

 

[EternalGamer]

I think it would be smart if MS decided to leverage their Windows 8 + Xbox brand name ubiquity.

In other words, make the new Xbox the a "PC in a Box" solution. Make it boot up with two menu options: Xbox Live or Win 8. With the option to auto-default to one or the other.

Call it the Xbox "Omni."

They could still segment off the partitions and make 360 a closed environment, but how many people would dig a console+PC in one box?

They need an Apple killer to combat all the college kids who want Mac these days. What kid wouldn't want a PC for college that also functions as a Xbox Live machine?

They could then preinstall this custom PC with their own MS apps store like iTunes which would sell MS Word, Excel, etc, all of which have been flagging.

It would be MS mimicking Apple's closed environment strategy while leveraging both their Xbox and Windows brands simultaneously.

The coolest thing for gamers, of course would be that if you have a new Xbox you also have a PC gaming machine. Maybe not top of the line, but still decent.

That would be rad.

 

[KageMaru]

Microsoft and/or Sony will probably release tidbits of info and teasers to get people thinking twice about getting a WiiU.

That's what I'm thinking, or at least hoping.

Yeah, good to know that nintendo is just going to sit back and let it happen.

No one said that. His comment was valid since every company tries their best to take the spotlight away from the early guy.

WiiU could be left behind again.

Not so sure about this. It'll lag behind the PS4/720 most likely, but the Wii-U will handle ports of the high end platforms much much better than the Wii handled ports from the PS360.

Thats the problem Sony and Microsoft will be facing launching in 2013.
Depending on their launch price.
How many PS360 owners are ready to move on to a new console.
I think its a lot less than Wii owners.

It'll all come down to marketing. Regardless of the platform, if they can market it as if they have the new "big thing" or next big jump, people will line up and buy it day one.

Maybe it'll have a state of the art GPU feature-wise, but it'll fall far behind PC in terms of horsepower. It's not like there could be an innovation in GPU tech comparable to unified shaders in 360 though.

It can be behind in terms of overall horsepower, but still keep up due to the much lower overhead found in consoles.

 

[JJD]

Um... no? Not in any measurable way. Casual gamers have always been the lifeblood of the industry. Wait, no. I forgot. GTA is hardcore now, as is Madden. And Halo. And COD.

What? GTA, Halo have always been hardcore games. Sports titles are another matter. Casual is a new thing, if you were a gamer up to some years ago it's pretty sure you were kinda hardcore. Only now games are going mainstream and more people are gaming. Casual gaming is pretty much still related to cellphones, tablets, social networks and other devices. Consoles are still mostly hardcore.

But please, we're derailing the thread...

 

[Vinci]

What? GTA, Halo have always been hardcore games. Sports titles are another matter.

Sorry. I'm still new to this version of reality.

Casual is a new thing, if you were a gamer up to some years ago it's pretty sure you were kinda hardcore. Only now games are going mainstream and more people are gaming. Casual gaming is pretty much still related to cellphones, tablets, social networks and other devices. Consoles are still mostly hardcore.

....

Okay.

 

[JJD]

Just because they're popular doesn't mean they're casual.

Sorry. I'm still new to this version of reality.

Make yourself comfortable.

 

[flyinpiranha]

You should see the couch I'm planning to use on my future gaming PC setup. I bet you'd be envious!



Well pardon me, but it's the hardcore gamer that has kept this industry going foward past the turbulent waters of popular fads such as motion controls. If infrared aiming was such a beautiful thing Nintendo wouldn't be abandoning it after just a generation.

Oh yeah, I forgot...they're after the stuck up in their ways hardcore gamer!

Wiimote works with Wii U if I'm not mistaken. So how is ADDING more to their control setup considered "abandoning"?

Also, most console gamers don't want to sit on a couch (no matter how fucking super awesome your couch may be) with a KB/M. It's why they are console gamers.

 

[Rick Dangerous]

as many here, i'm sick of waiting next gen. i have a ps3, and it looks like it takes a super talented team to make good looking games on it to try to optimize the now limited ressources.
1080p@60fps is long gone and my 46"TV is under used.
And when i see battlefield 3 running on a PC, what makes the big difference are those 60 fps. If MS goes first and provides an hardware that can throw current games asset with 1080p, 60 fps and a very good AA method, then it's OK for me @ €299. End of 2012 max please.

 

[StevieP]

Everything

No.

Wiimote works with Wii U if I'm not mistaken. So how is ADDING more to their control setup considered "abandoning"?

If it's not in the box, it's effectively dead.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

blah blah blah

You're stuck on being a troll, how sad is that.

 

[EternalGamer]

as many here, i'm sick of waiting next gen. i have a ps3, and it looks like it takes a super talented team to make good looking games on it to try to optimize the now limited ressources.
1080p@60fps is long gone and my 46"TV is under used.
And when i see battlefield 3 running on a PC, what makes the big difference are those 60 fps. If MS goes first and provides an hardware that can throw current games asset with 1080p, 60 fps and a very good AA method, then it's OK for me @ €299. End of 2012 max please.

I honestly think the delay in the new generation for a couple more years will re-establish the PC as THE platform for hardcore gamers. It already is for a lot of people. I know I bought a gaming PC this year for this very reason. Add two more years to that and a lot more people will be where I was before this new cycle starts.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

You should see the couch I'm planning to use on my future gaming PC setup. I bet you'd be envious!



Well pardon me, but it's the hardcore gamer that has kept this industry going foward past the turbulent waters of popular fads such as motion controls. If infrared aiming was such a beautiful thing Nintendo wouldn't be abandoning it after just a generation.

Oh yeah, I forgot...they're after the stuck up in their ways hardcore gamer!

Motion controls are a fad? Someone needs a reality check.

 

[Rodney McKay]

No.



If it's not in the box, it's effectively dead.

Didn't know they announced what's in the box yet.