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[Dark_castle]

If the world and exploration is top notch, and that combined with the story is where the meat of the game will be, the game could still turn out great. Not fantastic, but great.

If the battle system in an ARPG or RPG is shit, the game is shit. There really is no exceptions. Right now based on Tabata descriptions, it's shit.

 

[Eusis]

The worst thing I have ever read regarding this game.

"I myself am not getting any younger. I don't want to be frantically pushing buttons. I also want to utilise the intelligence of the hardware spec, and not have to go through too much hassle or trouble in order to execute moves."

Did your focus testing reveal all old gamers have arthritis or something?

To me that's really more a case of "ok, so why do we avoid turn based?" As I said there is some merit even with the age factor removed, and it IS something that's bothered me with a lot more core games favoring action rather than turn based tactical combat.

Although, Kickstarters have helped there, and even some bigger publishers seem to be wisening up there (see X-Com.)

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

The footage of VSXIII was very promising.

What happened during its development? What went wrong? Why couldn't Nomura finish his game? Why did they bring in Tabata just two years ago?

We may never know.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

First fighting games, now RPG's?? Those casuals probably will not care about FF15 in the first place. I hope they do not do anything drastic just to try to appeal to casuals. Keep an in depth experience for the fans please.

 

[swit]

the sad thing is that Tabata is very capable when it comes to battle systems. Crisis Core on normal is ridiculously easy and pretty much play itself, but if you start the game with hard mode enabled, without new game +, you will see that the gameplay is very challenging (especially optional missions) and you need to learn your opponents movement, carefully approach them and adjust/develop materia during the game. Very satisfying experience. Type-0 battle system is also pretty good, despite the problematic camera. Both games had much better battle systems than Kingdom Hearts. So, after 2 nice attempts he decided to toss out everything he learnt so far when it comes to battle systems and chase casuals

 

[Haly]

Please no.

 

[Mohasus]

Why bother creating a cool battle system like LR's if it doesn't sell games? I'd say gamers brought this upon themselves.

 

[Shiina]

And people wouldn't believe me when I said the game looked more like a movie than a game.

Spoiler

Also when I said the game would be trash like almost everything else SE made.

 

[EatinOlives]

For me it's not so much that the action is hands off, it's that the main motivation for this system seems to be more about so-called "accessibility" more than anything else. Even if they later try to make it strategic, if the top priority was "press A to awesome" for the false hope that more people will buy it, it's 100% guaranteed that it will show up in the final product. You can't have a design document for a casual game and then think you can implement it in such a way that it magically is deep enough for a more traditional, deeper experience in execution. It just doesn't work that way. People have tried before, like with Ninja Graiden 3, and it just doesn't work that way.

 

[GenericJoe]

Unlike a lot of people here, the news over the past couple days that this wasn't just going to be Kingdom Hearts: Final Fantasy Edition actually increased my interest in the game.
But this news here... Yikes.

A director flat out stating his goal is to dumb the game down for mass appeal? I don't mean to board the hyperbole train, but I'm hard pressed to think of anything else that could tank my expectations faster than a statement like that.

 

[Data West]

Why bother creating a cool battle system like LR's if it doesn't sell games? I'd say gamers brought this upon themselves.

Gamers brought this upon themselves for not buying the third entry in an iteration that they didn't like?

 

[GorillaJu]

Doesn't turn me off. I'm very lukewarm on the game anyway, but I think there's room for all kinds of games and play styles. I know we're supposed to be up in arms about the word "casual" but I have both casual and hardcore games in my collection and I like it that way. Uncharted 2 was an easy romp and I remember those 12-ish hours as fondly as any 40+ hour hardcore investment.

 

[raven777]

Why bother creating a cool battle system like LR's if it doesn't sell games? I'd say gamers brought this upon themselves.

because almost everything else in that game was really bad.

 

[cajunator]

Cool idea. Now they can expand the rpg appeal to more casuals. It will help sales.

 

[Izuna]

This sounds like a Decline of Video Gaming skit...

 

[Ceravic]

God damn, Tabata. I'm trying to stay positive and hyped but you're starting to make it hard to keep it up.

 

[Kagari]

Why bother creating a cool battle system like LR's if it doesn't sell games? I'd say gamers brought this upon themselves.

No SE brought that on themselves by putting a decent battle system in a game with story/characters people no longer cared about and so sales suffered.

 

[Branduil]

Really if you have to simplify combat like this, why not just go back to turn-based? It's way past time for AAA games to accept that turn-based combat is a valid design decision.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

Umm... Nope. For one button action you need a party of just girls....

 

[Nightengale]

Sigh.

The only takeout I'm really taking away from this is a reiteration that Versus is dead. It's not a pure action RPG anymore, it's an RPG with real time action elements.

Press A to Awesome, as terrible as that sounds, is functionally similar to old turned based RPGs where you executed limit breaks and awesome moves by selecting them in a menu, instead of pressing a combination of buttons to execute a combo move.

Those games compensated for their press A to Firaga with strategic depth. Despite having an archaic system, they aren't easy.

Therefore, That, on its own, isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's bad if you were hoping for FF KH,but this isn't that game anymore. The only fear I have is accessibility, and fear that there's less depth overall.

I'm with duckroll on this.

 

[HHTurtle]

I'm still gonna repost this since people still think a single attack button system is practically the end of the world.

For those who are unfamiliar with FF Type-0's control scheme, I will try to explain why this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I did swap the Circle, Triangle and Square commands so I will explain it by using the button configuration that I used.

Holding/Tapping R will bring up a target reticle on enemies.

Holding L brings up a sub-menu that allows you to access reserve members, switch between any of the characters in play or access Special Orders.

Circle is the basic attack button. Most characters have an attack for each circle and left analog stick combination, "O + nothing", "O + forward" and "O + backward". Some even have attacks for "O + left/right".

Triangle and Square are for special abilites like Ace's Laser Cannon (These consume the ability gauge) and offensive spells like Fire RF (These consume MP of course). Each character can be equipped with 2 special abilities, 2 offensive spells or one of each. Some special abilities have multiple combinations when used with the left analog stick.

There is no Jump button but Cross is for dodging and casting support spells like Cure. Pressing/Holding X while the left analog stick is tilted in a certain direction will cause that character to dodge in that direction. Standing still for a moment and holding X will cause the character to charge the support spell. Once the spell begins to charge, you can run around while the spell is charging. When it is charged up, releasing the X button will cast the support spell.

Blindly dodging or attacking is a very easy way to get yourself killed since the game is pretty tough.

So you see, a single attack button and single dodge button can still make for an intricate battle system.

 

[TheF1BOB]

Why bother creating a cool battle system like LR's if it doesn't sell games? I'd say gamers brought this upon themselves.

Nah man they can still expand on the system and make it better but they won't unfortunately.

because almost everything else in that game was really bad.

raven pls.

 

[publicpwnerer]

I swear, Japanese devs feel pretty comfortable with making ludicrous, batshit insane comments / design choices...without even blinking an eye.

You get a lot of eccentric and brilliant games...but then you also get FFXIII (gorgeous looking game, but god awful linearity.)

 

[Loudninja]

I like the strategic comments he has for the combat though. It does sound like this is way less of a pure action RPG and more of a action-based RPG with more strategic and tactical choices in terms of how you approach something, rather than how good you are at reacting to action and executing the action skillfully.



It's clearly not VersusXIII anymore, but it could still be pretty fun if the encounters are well designed and there are interesting things you can do in the battles.

Yeah that sounds good really interested in trying it myself.

 

[MormaPope]

Yes well we can say that about trailers in pretty much every single RPG, especially early trailers. I'm not arguing that the game will have amazing depth here. I don't know if it will. But I think it's important to have a rational opinion about stuff based on what we do know. Is it disappointing that this doesn't have high level action combat? If we were expecting it to be that, sure. Does that automatically mean that anything with automation or contextual action is total shit? No, definitely not. You can design gameplay which focuses on other things. Obviously it will be less obvious on generic mobs than in more carefully scripted boss encounters, so I guess we'll see?

The demo will be really interesting, because Tabata repeats in almost every interview that people who are doubtful about the new direction of the game should check out the demo to see for themselves, so he's definitely approaching the demo as something he would be proud of and representative of how good the game could be. If the demo turns out to be shit, then it's pretty bad news for the full game too imo.

My biggest worry is mob combat/combat with non boss enemies will be padding and fluff when it comes to gameplay. That is probably my biggest beef with the whole franchise, and that doesn't seem to be changing with FFXV. I doubt boss battles will function like that, but if the combat only shines when it comes to bosses, I don't know if the game will be fun when it comes to jumping from confrontation to confrontation.

 

[Savitar]

Can it be on a phone too?

Hey it's the natural progression right?

 

[sn00zer]

Although....ith all this back lash I have high hopes for an FFXV spinoff that is action based...
4 more years! 4 more years!

 

[TuXx]

Watching the trailers I've always wonder how the hell can you do all those insane action sequences. It turns out you don't at all.

 

[Asd202]

Holy shit how many people are gonna freak out about this and completely ignore the fact that Tabata claims this is an alternative method of play?

Where does he say that?

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Time to take a chill pill til the demo.

I gotta go ly dow'

 

[Shiina]

Umm... Nope. For one button action you need a party of just girls....

Ironically enough X-2 had arguably the best battle system in the series.

 

[Shion]

FFXV isn't an action game, you won't be playing a one button version of Bayonetta.

Number of buttons =/= depth when it comes to RPGs.

 

[HK-47]

If the battle system in an ARPG or RPG is shit, the game is shit. There really is no exceptions. Right now based on Tabata descriptions, it's shit.

You can role play without combat. Its just games suck at doing it. I mean one of the best rpgs ever made has a subpar combat system.

 

[Earthpainting]

Well I sure feel bad about my "Press A to Awesome" comments of the past few days. Next he'll announce that you'll get a chauffeur for the cruising sections too. Maybe he should stop doing interviews for a while. This roller-coaster started with an exciting drop and we've been climbing up-hill ever since, slowly slogging towards the exit. Just as well, because tons of people seem to be losing limbs on this ride and they need medical attention.

 

[Sakura]

Wow this sounds really cool.
One button action? Reminds me of how I only have to press one button to play my movies. And I love movies. So this will probably be a great thing for FF.

You can role play without combat. Its just games suck at doing it. I mean one of the best rpgs ever made has a subpar combat system.

Is there any actual role playing in modern Final Fantasy?

 

[Mortemis]

Cool idea. Now they can expand the rpg appeal to more casuals. It will help sales.

Whenever you're trying to reach out to a bigger audience, its always best to not lose the more hardcore folk.

Its always great to reach out, but really though, what casual will be reading interviews? If you want to get the message across that the game will be more accessible, surely an interview that will be mostly only read by hardcore fans isn't the best way to go about it.

They should explain what makes this combat system deep in its own way, not drop facts like its aiming to be easier. Those sort of facts that only reach the hardcore fans that would read interviews are definitely not going to help you out.

 

[HK-47]

Ironically enough X-2 had arguably the best battle system in the series.

Then they abandoned it. The best atb battle system ever with on the fly class switching.

 

[MormaPope]

Ironically enough X-2 had arguably the best battle system in the series.

And the most underrated soundtrack.

I'd rate FFX-2 much higher than FFXII, tenfold when it comes to FFXIII.

Fuck it, give us FFX-3 with X-2's combat system.

 

[Nocturno999]

The bad news just keep coming for this game.

 

[li bur]

Bu..bu..but pokemon is very casual but has tons of depth.

Nahh I give up, let's see what SE came up with, hopefully I won't be to disappointed.

 

[barit]

I don't get it. Where lies the challenge when i just hold a button down for 10min. and everything on screen is automaticly done for me. Waaah ?? Even David Cages games are more complex ffs

 

[Dimitri LH]

...you had one job Tabata. ONE!!

 

[random25]

...you had one button Tabata. ONE!!

FTFY

 

[Haly]

...you had one job Tabata. ONE!!

And now you have one button. ONE!!

EDIT: Beaten.

 

[Raist]

Well TBH, FF has always been a "one button action" in a way.

 

[Coffee Dog]

They should have just made it turn based at this point.

Looks like KH3 is our only hope now. Save us Nomura.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

you were the fucking chosen one Tabata

 

[Inuhanyou]

Well I sure feel bad about my "Press A to Awesome" comments of the past few days. Next he'll announce that you'll get a chauffeur for the cruising sections too. Maybe he should stop doing interviews for a while. This roller-coaster started with an exciting drop and we've been climbing up-hill ever since, slowly slogging towards the exit. Just as well, because tons of people seem to be losing limbs on this ride and they need medical attention.

He already said you dont have to drive and have the AI do it for you..

 

[sn00zer]

The worst part is the wording

Here is something incredible we can do with combat on new consoles

"Another example is in the combat," explains Tabata. "With the hardware specifications of the newer consoles, it's possible to set it up so you have different enemies and different choices of attacks you can enter in,

But we're not going to do that

but I want to simplify that.

Instead we are going to do the opposite of that

It'll basically be a one-button action, and the AI intuitively outputs an action that kind of satisfies, gives you that instant gratification, and it connects with the simple touch of a button. I myself am not getting any younger. I don't want to be frantically pushing buttons. I also want to utilise the intelligence of the hardware spec, and not have to go through too much hassle or trouble in order to execute moves."

 

[HK-47]

Wow this sounds really cool.
One button action? Reminds me of how I only have to press one button to play my movies. And I love movies. So this will probably be a great thing for FF.

Is there any actual role playing in modern Final Fantasy?

No more than tons of other genres not labeled role playing games but for the sake of talking about actual role playing combat is not required to be a focus or even an option. But it would be much harder to do since combat options are one of the most well worn methods of role playing in games so you have a lot of backdata to base it on. Violence is also appealing.