PhoncipleBone
Banned
Claremont is both the best and worst thing to ever happen to X-Men.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Favorite villain from X-Men?
- Thread starter sam12
- Start date
Claremont is both the best and worst thing to ever happen to X-Men.
BKatastrophe
Member
Black Tom obvi
Nonsense of the highest order
For real. Great concept. They were fucked minute one for having to go up against one of the best X-teams out there
Code:
[img]http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/57969/3788345-3136535838-X-men.jpg[/img]Both. Well, the first one, but I'm gonna say the second one for shits and giggles.
OptionalObjectives
Neo Member
_from_Marvel_Masterpieces_Trading_Cards_1992_0001.jpg)
Wasn't the first one going to be Gambit's original origin?
The second one is from Earth X, you don't want to know what they did with Nightcrawler
ratcliffja
Member
Arcade is totally underated. Sinister is my favorite, though.Schattenjäger;252039953 said:
Killer Queen
Banned
BKatastrophe
Member
Kinda. Gambit was gonna be his proxy so he could bone Rogue.
CloudyTuba
Member
Apocalypse.
In general, not the movie version.
In general, not the movie version.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Apocalypse is a big deal only because we have been told he was a big deal. The only good story he was involved in was a parallel universe that he wasn't even the best villain in, and he was the title villain in it.
Apocalypse was born to lose.
Apocalypse was born to lose.
Escape Goat
Member
Bigotry
BKatastrophe
Member
I didn't see anyone drop Cassandra Nova.
So I'm dropping Cassandra Nova.
She completely totalled the X-Men. Twice.
Also genocide. She committed pretty mass genocide just to fuck with Xavier. After possessing him and banging his girl.
So I'm dropping Cassandra Nova.
She completely totalled the X-Men. Twice.
Also genocide. She committed pretty mass genocide just to fuck with Xavier. After possessing him and banging his girl.
His biggest win was an accident. Paper tiger doesn't begin to describe him
RedHoodedOwl
Member
Bastion
The synth who murdered Nightcrawler and turned ordinary humans into cybernetic Sentinel hybrids. He's Ultron who resents mutants more than humans.
The synth who murdered Nightcrawler and turned ordinary humans into cybernetic Sentinel hybrids. He's Ultron who resents mutants more than humans.
Coriolanus
Banned
Captain America.
eh, i feel that Essex isn't any good as a primary antagonist, particularly because when he's at his best, he always has some idiot like Poccy to facetank whatever comes because they've been deceived into thinking that they're in charge.
eh, i feel that Essex isn't any good as a primary antagonist, particularly because when he's at his best, he always has some idiot like Poccy to facetank whatever comes because they've been deceived into thinking that they're in charge.
But really, the greatest X-Men villain of all is this:
Nah. Harras is bad, but small potatoes compared to Scott Lobdell. It was Lobdell's writing that made me quit X-books after reading them religiously for almost 20 years.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Paper Tiger is too kind. What's the most notable accomplishment he has had in the main timeline? Made Archangel and got Wolverine his adamantium back?
After that it was a long checklist of this:
1) Lose
2) Lose
3) Lose
And so on, and so on.
But Generation X though...
Marve-
God damn it.
He made Moses Magnum a thing
PhoncipleBone
Banned
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Haven't read the thread but Proteus always creeped me out.
Escape Goat
Member
Moses Magnum sounds like the first prophylactic approved by the Vatican.
Reptars Revenge
Member
Nothing beats the Blob.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Hmm. Do the Brood count? Scary mofos.
Good first few issues. Everything involving Penance was just embarrassing.
But nothing in Gen X makes up for Operation Zero Tolerance. I didn't read another X-Book for years.
Did you hear about Fred Dukes? Died of 23 consecutive heart attacks.
Saucycarpdog
Member
The original JigsawSchattenjäger;252039953 said:
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Wait. Belasco! Yeah, he was my favorite just cuz he was terrifying and his boy was no joke.
Magneto is great, but the movies have been beating that horse to death.
I liked Apocalypse in the comics, and then the cartoon put him into the top tier by his voice alone. His movie was garbage.
Apocalypse can't win because that would be the end of the world. Plot armor will always have the XMen win. And that doesn't matter, because he's not in a hurry. I really liked how in one episode of the cartoon, Apocalypse is off in the far future fighting Cable, and some random bit of hero-banter causes him to have an existential crisis, and he stops (mid battle) to ponder whether the universe is bent against him (and really, it is).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYt78FWfa5M
I liked Apocalypse in the comics, and then the cartoon put him into the top tier by his voice alone. His movie was garbage.
Apocalypse can't win because that would be the end of the world. Plot armor will always have the XMen win. And that doesn't matter, because he's not in a hurry. I really liked how in one episode of the cartoon, Apocalypse is off in the far future fighting Cable, and some random bit of hero-banter causes him to have an existential crisis, and he stops (mid battle) to ponder whether the universe is bent against him (and really, it is).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYt78FWfa5M
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Jesus, I had wiped that from my memory. Thanks.
I still blame Harras for all the bad 90s x-men shit. Well, any bad 90s Marvel shit.
Apocalypse still sucks. It doesn't matter if the heroes have "plot armor" against him. He is still lame and only a threat because we are told he is a threat.
Which Age of Apocalypse run to get? (Edited with proper second link)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N4S98SC/?tag=neogaf0e-20'
or
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FWH7LLG/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Kind of confused on this.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N4S98SC/?tag=neogaf0e-20'
or
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FWH7LLG/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Kind of confused on this.
BKatastrophe
Member
"Plot armor" means jack shit. Like I said, Cassandra Nova totalled the X-Men twice and destroyed an entire island AND took control of a space empire. She still lost because, yeah, the heroes won. Didn't stop her from havimg a legit victory.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Those are the same link. And that is the full run.
Nah. Slayven's arch enemy is Carol Susan Jane Danvers.
Palette Swap
Member
Apocalypse is a joke, really. He kind of was a dumb looking B lister when he first appeared, then he was built up into something else but never really delivered in the main reality/timeline. I mean, they spent years setting up the Twelve and it mostly sucked. The only times hes been a good villain was in other timelines where he already was established as having won.
Despite all the ridiculous shenanigans and backstory, Sinister was a really good villain, if only because of the marauders, who took everything up a notch in both their biggest appearances (Mutant Massacre and Messiah Complex).
I have a huge soft spot for Shadow King, but my favorite villains are probably Stryker and his ilk when theyre done right. God Loves Man Kills is pitch perfect in the way it establishes these assholes conceptually and grounds them. Beyond Stryker, I think Nimrod/Master Mold, and Cameron Hodge are pretty good too. So yeah, it probably says something about me that my favorite X-Men antagonists are humans wanting to kill mutants.
Despite all the ridiculous shenanigans and backstory, Sinister was a really good villain, if only because of the marauders, who took everything up a notch in both their biggest appearances (Mutant Massacre and Messiah Complex).
I have a huge soft spot for Shadow King, but my favorite villains are probably Stryker and his ilk when theyre done right. God Loves Man Kills is pitch perfect in the way it establishes these assholes conceptually and grounds them. Beyond Stryker, I think Nimrod/Master Mold, and Cameron Hodge are pretty good too. So yeah, it probably says something about me that my favorite X-Men antagonists are humans wanting to kill mutants.
These are the same link, but I assume one of them should be the more recent editions. Theyre pretty much the same tbh.
Yea whoops. I'll edit the post with proper link posted below for comparison.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FWH7LLG/?tag=neogaf0e-20
This seems to have a more recent publish date and the reading order seems updated in this version...just unsure what fans would recommend.
Palette Swap
Member
I havent read both editions to compare them, but at a glance, Id say the newer edition is cheaper to get everything.
The Dawn volume of the new edition is mostly backstory material that was written afterwards, so you should probably read it last. The biggest omission of the new edition seems to be X-Men Prime, which was a one shot that dealt with the aftermath of AoA in the main timeline and laid out new plot threads for the X-books at the time. If youre looking for a self-contained story, its actually a good call to get rid of it.
Fast Forward
Member
Animated? Apocalypse from the TAS comes to mind first.
Film? Magneto. Either version. Young, or old.
Apocalypse from the film version was like a parody at best.
Film? Magneto. Either version. Young, or old.
Apocalypse from the film version was like a parody at best.
jasminlovesyoux
Banned
I LOVED generation x when it first started. I think I collected all the issues up through Generation Next when the Age of Apocalypse event happened. And I know I got the big issue with Mondo. But shortly after that stuff I stopped getting comic bools altogether. I'm afraid to hit the Wiki and see what happened.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Magneto is the X-Men's Joker because he is Xavier's ultimate foil as well as a warning for what students like Cyclops could (and would) eventually become. But I rarely find him that compelling in the comics tbh. He's good as a reluctant team leader but as the big bad, I'm usually unimpressed. The movies did a good job with him though.
Apocalypse is a joke. But he can be a funny one with a good writer. Sinister's schemes are too abstract. Anything Shi'ar sucks.
I guess... Shit, I'll go with Arcade. I'm always down for a good Arcade story.
This thread made me realize that I don't really care about most X-Men villains. Fuck you GAF. I'm gonna have to go on a quest to find myself.
Apocalypse is a joke. But he can be a funny one with a good writer. Sinister's schemes are too abstract. Anything Shi'ar sucks.
I guess... Shit, I'll go with Arcade. I'm always down for a good Arcade story.
This thread made me realize that I don't really care about most X-Men villains. Fuck you GAF. I'm gonna have to go on a quest to find myself.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
Gambit fanboys
I had to google who The Twelve were, and yeah, they seem lame, but mostly they seem un-Apocalypse, and I'm not willing to dismiss what I thought was a good character just because some writer mishandled them. (If I did that, no comic book character would be left standing.)
This is Apocalypse, to me:
The First Mutant. Fully immortal/ridiculously old. His mutant ability is full control over his own body (which has absorbed information about alien tech), like Mystique but on a whole other level, making him nearly indestructible, and his powers are thematically the embodiment of the "evolution" at the core of Mutants (he evolves to counter threats to his being). I never got any sense that we're "told" about his powers but can't see them, as we mostly just see him being aloof and shrugging off massive blasts. He has achieved personal invulnerability in addition to his immortality, and now he's bored.
His philosophy is that he believes in survival of the fittest (evolution again), and thus he has come to the evil idea that it's his purpose to kick the anthill every now and then to encourage the weak to die and the strong to take their place. He's slow and plodding. Prone to thousand-year naps. He picks out themed Horsemen as his generals and takes his time selecting just the right ones that have some sort of appropriate meaning (unlike in the movie, where any old Mutant will do). Heroes fuck up his plans to destroy the world, and it doesn't much bother him, as he has all the time in the world, and that heroic overachieving is the sort of growth he's trying to nurture in his own evil way. Due to his extreme age, the Four Horsemen in the Bible were likely based on something terrible he did at some point.
He took on the Original X-Men, and took out the weak link in their group (back in the days when killing your characters was uncommon), upgrading him into something cool (because he fit the theme, aka, Apocalypse was looking for a "Death", so he took the X-Men's lame Angel and flipped him into an Angel of Death). Mr Sinister tried to create Nate Summers (the perfect Mutant) to try and kill Apocalypse (to prevent his repeated attempted Extenction Level Events), and Apocalypse defended himself by smacking down the X-Men's Mary Sue and giving birth to Cable (the X-Men's coolest and most overused thing since Wolverine).
IMO, Apocalypse is a great X-Men villain when used properly. When you can't use him properly, just have him get bored and take a nap for a few years. It's simple.
Edit: Thinking about Pocky-lips's powers being "Mystique, but on a whole other level", and Mystique being indispensable to the X-Men movie franchise due to Jennifer Lawrence's multi-picture contract combined with her Academy Award, I'm surprised the movie didn't draw any parallels between the two. Unless they did, and I just blanked it out.
What are some good stories featuring these two?
Similar threads
- Locked