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[Arklite]

His actual message, though, is spot-on: Japanese games largely do suck. Is that a generality? Sure, but other than the occasional Nintendo game or Sony game, the generality pretty much sticks.

Half of this thread still has not been able to realize that they're own dislike of Japanese games does not mean they "largely do suck." Disliking the majority of Japanese games doesn't mean they're garbage, it means they didn't interest you.

 

[VeryGooster]

By that same token, most games all around the world suck. There is enough shovelware in every territory to lower the average of quality to horrible everywhere. The fact that he singled out Japan is just a little odd.

Though reading up on his comments, he seems dissapointed because Japanese games aren't like Nintendo in the 80's. I am not sure if any video games anywhere can hold up to that standard.

I wonder if Japan has ever put out anything like Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing.

I also wonder what the NES shovelware-to-actual quality titles ratio is...

 

[SnorlaxSquad]

Can't wait to plunder the deep seas of Fez to insure this asshat never gets paid in anything but gum. He takes 5 years to make a game inspired by nothing but old Japanese games and then insults someone who's praising what he's doing.

It seems like "indie dev" really means "giant asshole with a god complex." I can't wait for this trend to be over so these terrible people can go back to wherever they're all coming from. Absolutely disrespectful and disgusting.

 

[Terrell]

Fair enough, I certainly can't speak to this with any real expertise. Though it's funny that those issues with western game design mirror things I've seen other (certainly more tactful than this fuckin' guy) western developers say about Japan's game design now.

Funny, I attribute most of the issues with Japanese games lately to be because they're trying to catch the attention of the West very blatantly instead of just making what we know them for.

 

[loosus]

I wish people would stop stating their opinion as if it's ome sort of universally agreed upon fact.

I think that's the general consensus, though. Maybe an inconvenient consensus for you to accept but the consensus nonetheless. And don't act so surprised. It's certainly not new to this thread. That consensus has been with us for years.

The fact that he singled out Japan is just a little odd.

Not really. Japan used to be a powerhouse. Now, it's the exception rather than the rule when a good game comes from that country.

 

[angelfly]

snip

Not really something you should be admitting

 

[wolfmat]

Stuff that's relevant to the TOS

You might want to read this forum's TOS.

 

[Riposte]

Can't wait to plunder the deep seas of Fez to insure this asshat never gets paid. He takes 5 years to make a game inspired by nothing but old Japanese games and then insults someone who's praising what he's doing.

It seems like "indie dev" really means "giant asshole with a god complex." I can't wait for this trend to be over so these terrible people can go back to wherever they're all coming from. Absolutely disrespectful and disgusting.

...this thread :3

EDIT: I saw your edit broski, not that it matters I guess.

 

[Pyccko]

Funny, I attribute most of the issues with Japanese games lately to be because they're trying to catch the attention of the West very blatantly instead of just making what we know them for.

Hah, that's my feeling exactly. I miss the days when I would play something like Katamari Damacy or Parappa for the first time and go ahahah sure is JAPAN in here. There's still some stuff that gives that same oddball feeling, but definitely not as much.

 

[behem0th x]

By that same token, most games all around the world suck. There is enough shovelware in every territory to lower the average of quality to horrible everywhere. The fact that he singled out Japan is just a little odd.

Though reading up on his comments, he seems dissapointed because Japanese games aren't like Nintendo in the 80's. I am not sure if any video games anywhere can hold up to that standard.

Well he didn't really single them out, he was asked a specific question. Maybe if he was asked what he thought about Western Games, odds are he would've had a similar response, given his game seems to be the polar opposite of what is popular these days (an updated oldschool platformer).

 

[onilink88]

I like 3 relatively current Japanese games. That would be Ghost Trick, Lost Odyssey and Tekken 6.

You like Ghost Trick, huh? You should try a text adventure on the DS called 9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors.

 

[KiNeSiS]

So, Dark Souls, Monster Hunter, Bayonetta, Vanquish etc. suck?

GTFO.

BINGO, Some of the best games of this gen are *gasp* Japanese.

Sure Square/Enix declined hard body, & most Japanese game devs focus on portable platforms. I think they squandered this gens massive opportunities for the most part.
A No name dev saying all of Japan's games suck is hilarious, I'm usually not sensitive but I hate egotistical shit-bags that didn't earn the right to be.

Perhaps I will eat my words if Fez ends up amazing, I just love 2d platformers.
Imagine if team meat behaved this way.
Those guys are some indy devs I can get down with!
(S).uper(M).eat(B).oy & (S).uper(M).ario(B).ros for life!

 

[SnorlaxSquad]

...this thread :3

EDIT: I saw your edit broski, not that it matters I guess.

This thread is quite something. Admittedly, my original post may have been a little too direct. It's just silly when devs with no real experience criticize everything from anywhere. It's so general and indirect that it's insulting to everyone involved.

 

[Joni]

His actual message, though, is spot-on: Japanese games largely do suck. Is that a generality? Sure, but other than the occasional Nintendo game or Sony game, the generality pretty much sticks.

Which is the same for Europe and America. Great games are still the exception, we just don't see the shovelware the West produces that much.

 

[fresquito]

Can't wait to plunder the deep seas of Fez to insure this asshat never gets paid. He takes 5 years to make a game inspired by nothing but old Japanese games and then insults someone who's praising what he's doing.

It seems like "indie dev" really means "giant asshole with a god complex." I can't wait for this trend to be over so these terrible people can go back to wherever they're all coming from. Absolutely disrespectful and disgusting.

Okay, so, what the fuck are you talking about? Just because this guy says such stupid things doesn't mean he's representing indie devs or every indie dev is like him. In fact, most indie devs I've seen are the other eway around.

Put your shit together before your claim such stupid things, please.

 

[wolfmat]

You like Ghost Trick, huh? You should try a text adventure on the DS called 9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors.

I don't have a DS, I'll look into it though, thanks for the tip.

 

[Adam J.]

I recently stopped following Phil Fish on twitter because I couldn't stand his snide/whiny comments any longer.

Was somewhat interested in Indie Game: The Movie, but honestly between him, Edmund from Team Meat, and John Blow, I'm not sure I could sit through what could potentially being a douche-overload. The lot of them make great games, but goddamn they are insufferable. These indie divas need to take a note or two from Vlambeer and keep moving/shipping without acting like dicks.

 

[Feep]

Can't wait to plunder the deep seas of Fez to insure this asshat never gets paid in anything but gum. He takes 5 years to make a game inspired by nothing but old Japanese games and then insults someone who's praising what he's doing.

It seems like "indie dev" really means "giant asshole with a god complex." I can't wait for this trend to be over so these terrible people can go back to wherever they're all coming from. Absolutely disrespectful and disgusting.

Yeah, let's get angry over irrational generalization and use irrational generalization!

 

[simtmb]

You like Ghost Trick, huh? You should try a text adventure on the DS called 9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors.

Gotta second that. Brilliant game.

 

[JaxJag]

Come on man, you've got a fucking Homefront avatar. How can you slag anyone about bad games?

Sadly, Homefront is better than the majority of the titles that come from the East nowdays.

 

[Coxy]

Hah, that's my feeling exactly. I miss the days when I would play something like Katamari Damacy or Parappa for the first time and go ahahah sure is JAPAN in here. There's still some stuff that gives that same oddball feeling, but definitely not as much.

the sad fact is I've seen big name review sites use terms like "too japanese" "too anime" or indeed "WTFness" as supposed objective criticism of games

 

[wolfmat]

Was somewhat interested in Indie Game: The Movie, but honestly between him, Edmund from Team Meat, and John Blow, I'm not sure I could sit through what could potentially being a douche-overload.

I don't get why so many people call Blow a douche. Everything he's ever said so far really had an impact on me. He knows his shit, makes points worth making and the game he's famous for is really good.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Playing Resident Evil 4 right now (again... on the kind of shoddy 360/ps3 port).



A pretty good Japanese game.

Edit: I think my top five favorite games are all from this gen or last gen - and from Japanese devs. Although I have a bias towards the 3D action game.

 

[Riposte]

This thread is quite something. Admittedly, my original post may have been a little too direct. It's just silly when devs with no real experience criticize everything from anywhere. It's so general and indirect that it's insulting to everyone involved.

Hmm, I don't think you quite get it. Admitting to piracy amounts to a ban and being banned as a junior amounts to a perma-ban.

 

[AkimbO_Arcana]

Sadly, Homefront is better than the majority of the titles that come from the East nowdays.

lol.

 

[angelfly]

the sad fact is I've seen big name review sites use terms like "too japanese" "too anime" or indeed "WTFness" as supposed objective criticism of games

Western gaming media also use "too gamey" as a criticism towards games.

 

[IrishNinja]

LOL @ all the White Knights, must....defend...Japanese...games.

The fact is, sadly, that most modern Japanese games are absolutely garbage. The ones that are good, often do not appeal to European and NA gamers.

What he said was correct. However people will continue to try and refute his opinion by personally attacking him or his game. Funny.

Would have been a little less blunt but...

garbage posts from some garbage posters right here. ya'll are collectively bringing this board down to some gamefaqs level shit here, for real.

ps ironically the last time that dumbass "IM OKAY WITH THIS" image was on here was absolutezero cheering on the drug war.

 

[Pyccko]

the sad fact is I've seen big name review sites use terms like "too japanese" "too anime" or indeed "WTFness" as supposed objective criticism of games

Another sad byproduct of folks takin' gamez too seriously. Not to say a game can't be a serious piece of art, but a game can also be a toy. Y'know, to have fun with.

 

[Arklite]

Sadly, Homefront is better than the majority of the titles that come from the East nowdays.

Are you sure you don't just like generic Battlefield clones? The East has done better than sub par shooter copies for sure, but maybe my statements are a generalization of Homefront. Generalizations seem to suit some people just fine, though.

 

[Zeenbor]

IMO, he has some merit. Japanese games used to be bleeding edge in terms of game design, art direction, software engineering prowess, hardware innovations, music, etc.

It's sad too, cuz I was a hardcore Japanese gaming fan. Not any more, I'm afraid. They are no longer leading by example in ANY of those categories mentioned above. Capcom has been the only consistent Japanese developer this generation and for that, I thank them.

I hope Japanese indies step up and show the world what they can really do. Don't know if I care any more though.

 

[Rahxephon91]

Sadly, Homefront is better than the majority of the titles that come from the East nowdays.

You're going to have to explain this one. I really fail to see Homefront is anywhere close to being an actual good game. And even then, it really is hard to see how it even stands anywhere above it's own peers.

I played the game. The single player was so bland in it's execution that it's hard to even see how one would remember it. I'm not sure if it it had an original thought. It sure did'nt attempt to hide it's "inspirations".

And for a story supposedly so real, it was really embarrassing.

MP was actually interesting, but even then it mostly became a throw bodies at point until we win type experience.

 

[Supermanisdead]

lol, stop generalizing and go work on your game :|

 

[VeryGooster]

I think you're just mad Final Fantasy XIII-2 didn't have a Hooters or White Castle in it.

And if indie developers want a generalized statement: Not every game needs to be a 16-bit sprite/8-bit chiptune soundtrack "throwback" title.

 

[Stylo]

I think you're just mad Final Fantasy XIII-2 didn't have a Hooters or White Castle in it.

 

[ULTROS!]

And if indie developers want a generalized statement: Not every game needs to be a 16-bit sprite/8-bit chiptune soundtrack "throwback" title.

Or a platformer.

Generalized statement: indies are always 2d platformers.

 

[Joni]

Western gaming media also use "too gamey" as a criticism towards games.

Indeed, I read one of those in an Uncharted Golden Abyss review: 'It feels too much like a game'. I'm waiting to read 'It is too much of a film' in a movie review.

 

[Supermanisdead]

honestly i thought this was one of those quirky japanese games that for some reason are xbox exclusive.

 

[Nome]

Japanese dev asks Fish if for a generalized comment about the Japanese gaming industry.
Fish gives Japanese dev a generalized comment about the Japanese gaming industry.
People are mad at Fish for generalizing.

OK.

 

[ULTROS!]

Indeed, I read one of those in an Uncharted Golden Abyss review: 'It feels too much like a game'. I'm waiting to read 'It is too much of a film' in a movie review.

Video games shouldn't be too much about being a game? Wut?

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Yikes. This thread.

Made myself a culturally ground-breaking, independently corporate avatar just for this thread.

Spoiler

Not really though.

 

[Anteater]

Video games shouldn't be too much about being game? Wut?

Some reviewers does that, especially for action games, "you fight this enemy too much, for the 5th time, it's not fun anymore" "you often have to die and repeat just to push forward, it's repetitive and tedious", when most of the adventure games make you fight pretty much the same enemies the entire game, but they are ok with that because there were also non gameplay stuff to "distract" them.

 

[Castor Krieg]

IMO, he has some merit. Japanese games used to be bleeding edge in terms of game design, art direction, software engineering prowess, hardware innovations, music, etc.

It's sad too, cuz I was a hardcore Japanese gaming fan. Not any more, I'm afraid. They are no longer leading by example in ANY of those categories mentioned above. Capcom has been the only consistent Japanese developer this generation and for that, I thank them.

I'm waiting to hear about innovative game design from western developers. Indies don't count, so let's stick to big name publishers.

 

[Lavalamp1138]

Japanese dev asks Fish if for a generalized comment about the Japanese gaming industry.
Fish gives Japanese dev a generalized comment about the Japanese gaming industry.
People are mad at Fish for generalizing.

OK.

It's not the comment, it's the delivery of the comment. Don't you adhere to some level of professionalism in public speaking?

 

[Mario007]

I'm waiting to hear about innovative game design from western developers. Indies don't count, so let's stick to big name publishers.

KILLSTREAKS and PERKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

da best inovationz eva!!!!!!!!!!!!

(once again over generalising it a little bit, but that's what this gen has been pretty much about)

 

[ULTROS!]

I'm waiting to hear about innovative game design from western developers. Indies don't count, so let's stick to big name publishers.

I thought Portal was innovative enough but I guess that's probably it.

 

[reptilescorpio]

If Japanese games suck then you would expect sales to drop and their industry to collapse.

How many Japanese developers have been closed compared to western developers?

 

[Hamplin]

Meh, most Japanese games that become popular over here are so westernised that you hardly notice that they are japanese.
Those few truly Japanese games are agreeably sucky onedimensional pieces of crap.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Sadly, Homefront is better than the majority of the titles that come from the East nowdays.

Also better than the majority of the titles that come from the west. Doesn't mean it's a good game.

 

[big_z]

japanese games do suck.... well maybe not all of them but a lot of them. japan failed to evolve with the games industry and it's hurt them badly. maybe japanese developers will find their voice again but right now they're a fish out of water.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

If Japanese games suck then you would expect sales to drop and their industry to collapse.

How many Japanese developers have been closed compared to western developers?

Cing
Irem
Game Republic

That's all I can think of right now but I'm pretty sure there's a few more. Still only a fraction of the west closures.