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[BocoDragon]

One game title doesn't really mean much.

Are you really trying to compare Twin Snake adding a couple of MGS2 mechanics to FFVII becoming an action RPG?

No. I've never said that. I guess that an inference from the larger discussion of the thread...?

Though if you're asking me that question... it's not as big of a deviation as people think. As I stated in my edit above, take FFVII's system, put it on the overworld, map attack commands to a button with the option to intervene with magic and item commands on a menu.... why, it's not that different from FFXV. If they put ATB bars in, and prompting input from all members in the party, it'd be all but the same type of battle system.

 

[Meccanical]

But I wish so hard now if Kitase directed this instead of Nomura

You would get the same thing,why is everyone forgetting he was one of the main driving forces behind the XIII series?

 

[brotkasten]

Nomura is going to George Lucas this so hard. If this becomes another one of his mediocre ARPG'S, im done with Final Fantasy. Series has taken a massive nose dive since 13 and 15 does not look to change that.

My biggest gripe with ARPGs is that you usually have no control over your party members. I have yet to play an ARPG with a full party where the AI wasn't in the way, didn't need my attention/help and was a reliable help, if needed. It would be absolutely fine, if you'd be controlling only Cloud throughout the entire game. They could turn it into DMC, for all I care. But that's not the case.

And I really don't understand why turn-based combat is supposed to be unpopular and dated? While the main games in the Persona series aren't a huge sellers, I find it hard to believe that the games are popular and liked, despite the combat system.

 

[daniels]

The battle system is not "everything" about a game, specially when you're talking about FFVII. It's one component, and the most flawed one at that.


And changing battle systems won't change the genre. It's still an RPG.

what makes you think they only change battesystem if they mess it up than probably all of it.
Also what does it matter that its still a rpg? there are countless shit rpgs out there!
some more recent ones even from SE.

 

[BocoDragon]

So they will add a secondary name to the remake?

Final Fantasy VII: Something?

Fine by me.

But I wish so hard now if Kitase directed this instead of Nomura

"Rebuild of FFVII"

I have a feeling the title will help to imply that its a new thing.

 

[Two Words]

No. I've never said that. I guess that an inference from the larger discussion of the thread...?

Though if you're asking me that question... it's not as big of a deviation as people think. As I stated in my edit above, take FFVII's system, put it on the overworld, map attack commands to a button with the option to intervene with magic and item commands on a menu.... why, it's not that different from FFXV. If they put ATB bars in, and prompting input from all members in the party, it'd be all but the same type of battle system.

That description isn't changing the genre. That sounds like modernizing FFVII's combat to make improvements in both design and in ways that newer hardware allows. The opposing comments are directed at people that want his to play like KH or FFXV.

 

[Dark_castle]

Whoever in charge of FFIV DS combat system should get on board. Now that was a great remake (graphics aside), really did justice to a mediocre battle system in the original FFIV and made it much more challenging and interesting, with more customization opportunities and options in battles. I want a remake along that lines, still ATB/turn-based, but tweaked to make it more engaging, not completely ditch the original system and go for something completely different, like Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals on SNES-> Lufia II: Curse of the Sinistrals on DS. It wasn't any better going from turn-based to action, in fact, it arguably became worse.

 

[The Praiseworthy]

Well.... I'm starting to think now that the Remake won't replace the original game place in my heart and mind as the greatest game of all time.

 

[Meccanical]

Whoever in charge of FFIV DS combat system should get on board. Now that was a great remake (graphics aside), really did justice to a mediocre battle system in the original FFIV and made it much more challenging and interesting, with more customization opportunities and options in battles. I want a remake along that lines, still ATB/turn-based, but tweaked to make it more engaging, not completely ditch the original system and go for something completely different, like Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals on SNES-> Lufia II: Curse of the Sinistrals on DS. It wasn't any better going from turn-based to action, in fact, it arguably became worse.

There's a thing called false equivalence.

Well.... I'm starting to think now that the Remake won't replace the original game place in my heart and mind as the greatest game of all time.

You should have known that in the beginning,the original game had the luxury of not having to be compared to anything.

 

[Two Words]

There's a thing called false equivalence.

There's a thing called non-sequitur.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

By the way, can we have a poll to gauge the split between those who favor ATB/turn-based or action combat for FFVII remake?

That's what I've been asking for. The mod I asked said they don't make poll threads when asked though, so a mod will have to make one on his/her own.

 

[BocoDragon]

That description isn't changing the genre. That sounds like modernizing FFVII's combat to make improvements in both design and in ways that newer hardware allows. The opposing comments are directed at people that want his to play like KH or FFXV.

KH is a bit far for me.

I think it will be 9/10ths of the way toward FFXV. I believe it will be an on-overworld battle system that looks like an action game from afar.

You know.. FFXV isn't all that action RPG if you really break it down.. Holding down the attack button auto-attacks the enemy in a way that isn't functionally different from holding O in FFVII. Cloud's ATB bar fills up and he attacks at regular intervals, just as Noctis attacks (albeit much quicker) at regular intervals.

The biggest deviation is that:

1. You control the position of the character (not so different from something like Parasite Eve except in fidelity)

2. You only control one character (and I could imagine a modified FFXV system that switches character view whenever the other member is ready to attack)

 

[fertygo]

FF7 have like 8 party member, its does sound like clusterfuck to made ARPG from it.

There's reason XV (And the original concept, versus) only had 4 bishie dude at party.

 

[threelights]

what makes you think they only change battesystem if they mess it up than probably all of it.
Also what does it matter that its still a rpg? there are countless shit rpgs out there!
some more recent ones even from SE.

That makes no sense whatsoever. If they change the gameplay that means nothing at all in terms of everything else.

And the last sentence was not for you, it was for whoever is saying the genre of the game would change with action gameplay.


The only way this project will not end up with people crying over it is if the remake is actually Frog Fractions 2.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Whoever in charge of FFIV DS combat system should get on board. Now that was a great remake (graphics aside), really did justice to a mediocre battle system in the original FFIV and made it much more challenging and interesting, with more customization opportunities and options in battles. I want a remake along that lines, still ATB/turn-based, but tweaked to make it more engaging, not completely ditch the original system and go for something completely different, like Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals on SNES-> Lufia II: Curse of the Sinistrals on DS. It wasn't any better going from turn-based to action, in fact, it arguably became worse.

Do you mind if i say i hate you, i never knew this existed, found a video and actually threw up in my mouth. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea.

 

[manipulate]

FF7's probably my favourite game. I would like the remake to be an ARPG, but at the same time the loss of control over other party members is a bit of a bummer. It's very, very difficult to imagine a strictly turn-based affair pulling in new fans or the kids of today, and for the budget of this game, it has to do exactly.

Spoiler

I was kind of hoping it'd be an ARPG with on-the-fly character switching, a la Versus XIII.

All that being said, I think everyone should chill. The battle system was by far the weakest component of FF7. The battle system is what it is; an arbitrary digital obstacle course that exists as an abstraction of combat.

 

[Two Words]

KH is a bit far for me.

I think it will be 9/10ths of the way toward FFXV. I believe it will be an on-overworld battle system that looks like an action game from afar.

You know.. FFXV isn't all that action RPG if you really break it down.. Holding down the attack button auto-attacks the enemy in a way that isn't functionally different from holding O in FFVII. Cloud's ATB bar fills up and he attacks at regular intervals, just as Noctis attacks (albeit much quicker) at regular intervals.

The biggest deviation is that:

1. You control the position of the character (not so different from something like Parasite Eve except in fidelity)

2. You only control one character (and I could imagine a modified FFXV system that switches character view whenever the other member is ready to attack)

I'd like something like FFXV with ATB. You just can't do true full party control with real time combat.

 

[BocoDragon]

Well.... I'm starting to think now that the Remake won't replace the original game place in my heart and mind as the greatest game of all time.

I don't need it to, personally.

I love the Dawn of the Dead remake. I love the original one too, even more.

FF7 have like 8 party member, its does sound like clusterfuck to made ARPG from it.

There's reason XV (And the original concept, versus) only had 4 bishie dude at party.

Why? FFVII only had 3 party members in a battle. If anything the number of characters in VII lends itself more to ARPG than XV's 4 party members in a battle. Just for the sake of argument..

 

[Lightning]

Well.... I'm starting to think now that the Remake won't replace the original game place in my heart and mind as the greatest game of all time.

That was obvious from the start. Impossible to capture the same feel from a game that many feel was the greatest game ever made. There is no way possible for S-E to satisfy everyone with this remake, peoples expectations are WAY to high.

Best thing S-E can do is ignore the fans and create the game they want.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

That was obvious from the start. Impossible to capture the same feel from a game that many feel was the greatest game ever made. There is no way possible for S-E to satisfy everyone with this remake, peoples expectations are WAY to high.

Best thing S-E can do is ignore the fans and create the game they want.

Yeah that has worked so well in the past... Man remember how everybody loved the FF13 trilogy and how they still want more Lightning. Or how FF14 was so amazing before Reborn, i bet everyone would love to go back to the pre-Reborn days.

 

[fertygo]

Why? FFVII only had 3 party members in a battle. If anything the number of characters in VII lends itself more to ARPG than XV's 4 party members in a battle. Just for the sake of argument..

To program all 8 character, animating, balancing it certainly far harder than just 4 dude on party... its not a problem the original only had 3 showed up at battle, its creating resource for 8 character for action game.

Even XV already give up for can made other character than the protag playable.

 

[BocoDragon]

I'd like something like FFXV with ATB. You just can't do true full party control with real time combat.

I suppose there is truth to that.

They could essentially speed up those ATB bars to the point that attacking occurred in realistic real time. And you could even be prompted for the input of all party members. Though to give you a fair window to input commands, you'd have to freeze combat at decision making points .. making it not real time from the gamer's perspective, but real time in universe.

 

[manipulate]

KH is a bit far for me.

I think it will be 9/10ths of the way toward FFXV. I believe it will be an on-overworld battle system that looks like an action game from afar.

You know.. FFXV isn't all that action RPG if you really break it down.. Holding down the attack button auto-attacks the enemy in a way that isn't functionally different from holding O in FFVII. Cloud's ATB bar fills up and he attacks at regular intervals, just as Noctis attacks (albeit much quicker) at regular intervals.

The biggest deviation is that:

1. You control the position of the character (not so different from something like Parasite Eve except in fidelity)

2. You only control one character (and I could imagine a modified FFXV system that switches character view whenever the other member is ready to attack)

The biggest disappointment of this whole thing so far is that FF7 is UE4 and not Luminous. A seamless FF7 world like FFXV would just be incomparably amazing.

 

[Meccanical]

Yeah that has worked so well in the past... Man remember how everybody loved the FF13 trilogy and how they still want more Lightning. Or how FF14 was so amazing before Reborn.

There were XII other FF games before then where they didn't give a shit about fan opinion and did their own thing too.

You all are highly confused if you think fan feedback has ever been a deep part of the FF creative process.

The only constant in the FF series has been change.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

There were XII other FF games before then where they didn't give a shit about fan opinion and did their own thing too.

You all are highly confused if you think fan feedback has ever been a deep part of the FF creative process.

The only constant in the FF series has been change.

Yeah and since 10 or 12 depending who you ask, it has not been working out for them.

 

[BocoDragon]

You all are highly confused if you think fan feedback has ever been a deep part of the FF creative process.

It might just be now, for the first time ever really. RE: Tabata's FFXV

 

[GreenMakoEyes]

Well.... I'm starting to think now that the Remake won't replace the original game place in my heart and mind as the greatest game of all time.

no game is capable to do that, not even the remake. Lets hope for the best. No new characters is a good start!

 

[Meccanical]

It might just be now, for the first time ever really. RE: Tabata's FFXV

That's the technical feedback side of things, none of the fans will ever make them change the battle system or character design.

 

[fertygo]

Yeah and since 10 or 12 depending who you ask, it has not been working out for them.

both are great games and had their vocal fans

 

[Two Words]

Square Enix has 3 major Japanese titles in development.

Kingdom Hearts 3
FFXV
FFVII

Why on earth do people want SE to homogenize all three of these games to be more and more alike? You really want to go through 3 lengthy RPGs that show few differences in gameplay?

 

[BlackBuzzard]

both are great games and had their vocal fans

I meant 13 and up. should have said that. Personally i did not like 12 but i would give it a second shot after 13.

 

[fertygo]

Square Enix has 3 major Japanese titles in development.

Kingdom Hearts 3
FFXV
FFVII

Why on earth do people want SE to homogenize all three of these games to be more and more alike? You really want to go through 3 lengthy RPGs that show few differences in gameplay?

Sheitttttttttt I just realize that

Things can feel so Ubisoft real quick lol

 

[SomeRandomWeirdGuy]

Square Enix has 3 major Japanese titles in development.

Kingdom Hearts 3
FFXV
FFVII

Why on earth do people want SE to homogenize all three of these games to be more and more alike? You really want to go through 3 lengthy RPGs that show few differences in gameplay?

But don't you see, Nomura is literally infallible.

 

[manipulate]

Square Enix has 3 major Japanese titles in development.

Kingdom Hearts 3
FFXV
FFVII

Why on earth do people want SE to homogenize all three of these games to be more and more alike? You really want to go through 3 lengthy RPGs that show few differences in gameplay?

There's also a strong consideration for "what is a realistic expectation" here. This game is going to cost an enormous amount to produce. It is likely that it will have sales expectations of ~5-10m copies. If they make it turn-based, it makes it much harder to attract a large segment of the current youth market.

 

[Jarod McChicken]

Sorry this probably has been discussed before, but are you guys confident that Square Enix will be using pre-rendered backgrounds and fixed camera ? I dont mean exactly the same as the original of course, but something like Resident Evil on GameCube in 2002.

I feel honestly open minded about a lot of things with FF7 Remake, but the most important thing to me is the concept of moving in pre-rendered backgrounds.

 

[manipulate]

Sorry this probably has been discussed before, but are you guys confident that Square Enix will be using pre-rendered backgrounds and fixed camera ? I dont mean exactly the same as the original of course, but something like Resident Evil on GameCube in 2002.

I feel honestly open minded about a lot of things with FF7 Remake, but the most important thing to me is the concept of moving in pre-rendered backgrounds.

I love pre-rendered backgrounds, but this is unlikely to the point of being fantasy.

 

[Two Words]

There's also a strong consideration for "what is a realistic expectation" here. This game is going to cost an enormous amount to produce. It likely to sell ~5-10m copies. If they make it turn-based, it makes it much harder to attract a large segment of the current youth market.

Square Enix just said that their recent struggles has been them chasing a foreign market by not doing what they do. They tried to make games that would appeal to Americans and it didn't work. They've bee saying they need to return to the roots of making the kinds of games they know how to make. They're not going to start selling Skyrim numbers or anything by just turning themselves into that weird game that looks like it doesn't want you to know its a Japanese game.

 

[BocoDragon]

Sorry this probably has been discussed before, but are you guys confident that Square Enix will be using pre-rendered backgrounds and fixed camera ? I dont mean exactly the same as the original of course, but something like Resident Evil on GameCube in 2002.

I feel honestly open minded about a lot of things with FF7 Remake, but the most important thing to me is the concept of moving in pre-rendered backgrounds.

I think you should flush that expectation down the toilet. Don't expect that... it's incredibly unlikely.

 

[Dark_castle]

Do you mind if i say i hate you, i never knew this existed, found a video and actually threw up in my mouth. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea.

To be fair, it wasn't really a bad game, but I definitely prefer the original's turn-based battles.

Square Enix has 3 major Japanese titles in development.

Kingdom Hearts 3
FFXV
FFVII

Why on earth do people want SE to homogenize all three of these games to be more and more alike? You really want to go through 3 lengthy RPGs that show few differences in gameplay?

Not only that, but there is Star Ocean 5, Nier 2, FF Type-1 (all but announced), DQ Heroes 1&2, Dissidia (not an RPG, but still action heavy), FF Explorer, new Mana and so on coming. All action, wtf.

 

[brotkasten]

There's also a strong consideration for "what is a realistic expectation" here. This game is going to cost an enormous amount to produce. It is likely that it will have sales expectations of ~5-10m copies. If they make it turn-based, it makes it much harder to attract a large segment of the current youth market.

I still don't see the evidence for these claims.

Did Persona 5 drop the turn-based combat?

 

[BlackBuzzard]

To be fair, it wasn't really a bad game, but I definitely prefer the original's turn-based battles.



Not only that, but there is Star Ocean 5, Nier 2, FF Type-1 (all but announced), DQ Heroes 1&2, Dissidia (not an RPG, but still action heavy), FF Explorer, new Mana and so on coming. All action, wtf.

Only turn based game in their roster atm is World of Final Fantasy.

 

[manipulate]

I still don't see the evidence for these claims.

Did Persona 5 drop the turn-based combat?

I'm confused. Do you think the budget and expected sales of a Persona game are comparable to a mainline Final Fantasy?

 

[BocoDragon]

Square Enix just said that their recent struggles has been them chasing a foreign market by not doing what they do. They tried to make games that would appeal to Americans and it didn't work. They've bee saying they need to return to the roots of making the kinds of games they know how to make. They're not going to start selling Skyrim numbers or anything by just turning themselves into that weird game that looks like itbdoesntvwant you to know its a Japanese game.

I agree with the sentiment of not desiring them to make something for the West... but I think Nomura's comments that he was frustrated with the term "jRPG" indicates to me that he dislikes the idea of RPGs made in Japan as necessarily being defined by some narrow game mechanics dating from 1987-1991.

I think he wants to evolve RPGs into new concepts. Not to make them "Western", but simply because even Japanese want to evolve the concept in their own way.

 

[Dark_castle]

Only turn based game in their roster atm is World of Final Fantasy.

Also Bravely Second and the new Saga game, that's about it. Damn bummer. If FFXVI is also action-based, I'll fucking boycott it. ლ(ಠ益ಠლ

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Square Enix has 3 major Japanese titles in development.

Kingdom Hearts 3
FFXV
FFVII

Why on earth do people want SE to homogenize all three of these games to be more and more alike? You really want to go through 3 lengthy RPGs that show few differences in gameplay?

I don't think it's fair to call those battle systems "homogenized" just because you could control your character's position in real-time. I mean, I remember people in the FFXV thread lamenting about how different the battle is to compared to KH.

Also, do people have this problem during the PSX era when most of their high-profile outputs consist of battle systems in which the characters stand still on the same place and take turns attacking?

 

[cosmicblizzard]

If they make it turn-based, it makes it much harder to attract a large segment of the current youth market.

Pokemon.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Pokemon.

WTF nobody likes Pokemon... Inb4 but that is on handheld excuse.

 

[Karkador]

Pokemon.

Oh yeah, I forgot that FF7 has all those Pokemon to collect and battle

 

[Two Words]

Oh yeah, I forgot that FF7 has all those Pokemon to collect and battle

Are you trolling?

 

[Meccanical]

Are you trolling?

That's a major goddamn aspect of the gameplay, not just the turn based battle system.

People don't buy pokemon because it's turn based.