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[Kintaro]

Typical of people to get all upset over the removal of auto-attack when we have barely any info and you haven't even played the game.

Uh, the dude said exactly what it was. I'd say we have info. Granted, Tanaka SUCKS in communicating anything, but people HAVE played the game as well. No one is getting upset, just questioning.

 

[HappyBivouac]

Uh, the dude said exactly what it was. I'd say we have info. Granted, Tanaka SUCKS in communicating anything, but people HAVE played the game as well. No one is getting upset, just questioning.

Eh, I just think that the gameplay can and will be designed around such a mechanic to be fun. It's not the same as just FFXI but you have to actually hit a button every time you want to attack.

I think they do want to take it ever-so-slightly closer to action-RPG territory, like I said earlier, perhaps something like FFXI but with a secret of mana-style attack gauge based on weapon delay.

For those that haven't played SoM, it's basically like you have a small gauge that, once you attack, resets to zero and fills back up over a few seconds. You can choose to attack when the gauge hasn't completely filled yet, but your attacks will be notably weaker than if you'd waited. (perhaps less TP gain as well, in this case) Something like that but with TP gain and weaponskills and such could end up really interesting.

 

[Ravidrath]

Eh, I just think that the gameplay can and will be designed around such a mechanic to be fun. It's not the same as just FFXI but you have to actually hit a button every time you want to attack.

I think they do want to take it ever-so-slightly closer to action-RPG territory, like I said earlier, perhaps something like FFXI but with a secret of mana-style attack gauge based on weapon delay.

For those that haven't played SoM, it's basically like you have a small gauge that, once you attack, resets to zero and fills back up over a few seconds. You can choose to attack when the gauge hasn't completely filled yet, but your attacks will be notably weaker than if you'd waited. (perhaps less TP gain as well, in this case) Something like that but with TP gain and weaponskills and such could end up really interesting.

To me, it sounds kind of like the XIII system - your bar fills up with Action Points, and you can perform an action.

Different actions then have different AP costs.

This is in line with the bar analysis from the video, I think?

 

[Kintaro]

For those that haven't played SoM, it's basically like you have a small gauge that, once you attack, resets to zero and fills back up over a few seconds. You can choose to attack when the gauge hasn't completely filled yet, but your attacks will be notably weaker than if you'd waited. (perhaps less TP gain as well, in this case) Something like that but with TP gain and weaponskills and such could end up really interesting.

What was the advantage to attacking before the bar filled up in SoM again?

 

[HappyBivouac]

What was the advantage to attacking before the bar filled up in SoM again?

Virtually nothing, but I'm sure it could be expanded on for this game. Perhaps there's a curve of sorts so that, for TP gain, there is actually an ideal point on the gauge before 100%.

I don't know if this would be fun at all, but it's just one possibility. Don't be so quick to discount things is what I'm saying, we still know barely anything about how the game plays. Sure, people fumbled around in an alpha for 15 minutes each, but we didn't really get a whole lot out of that to be honest.

 

[Alex]

Well, you're obviously not going to be just hitting the same attack every time. The standard move list on the Gladiator had like a heavy attack, a precise attack, a shield block, etc.

It's obvious those are separate from TP or cooldowns.

 

[Chris R]

Compass + time = whole ui? exactly like XI?

are you fucking stupid?

No I'm not fucking stupid, but there are more elements than that that are basically ripped from FFXI. Like I said, this is a pre-alpha so they still have plenty of time to change things if they want too. I was just a little disappointed on how similar the games looked. In a post-WoW world I'm expecting a little better, and who knows, maybe they will be updating the stuff towards the end of the development cycle and these were only placeholders.

 

[carlo6529]

I cannot see this "no-auto attack" lasting for long. People are going to bitch and whine about that.

On another note, I am loving the new monster designs. I need more!! MOARrrr!!!

 

[Kintaro]

Virtually nothing, but I'm sure it could be expanded on for this game. Perhaps there's a curve of sorts so that, for TP gain, there is actually an ideal point on the gauge before 100%.

I don't know if this would be fun at all, but it's just one possibility. Don't be so quick to discount things is what I'm saying, we still know barely anything about how the game plays. Sure, people fumbled around in an alpha for 15 minutes each, but we didn't really get a whole lot out of that to be honest.

SE's fault more than anything else. If they want more facts than fiction out there, TELL US PLAIN AND SIMPLY. Their communication is horrible.

 

[HappyBivouac]

Oh it was absolutely their fault. Apparently their strategy was to let people jump in for 15 minutes to gain feedback more than to actually show off the game. But doing that without showing a gameplay trailer or something is absolutely awful.

I've never had faith in SE's marketing. They just sort of fumble around and get by on their brand names. But they do make good games.

 

[Khrno]

Some of you are over-exaggerating with the Action Gauge, don't think like it's a global hit and wait system, but more of an individual delay gauge for every action.

Just like Alex said:

Well, you're obviously not going to be just hitting the same attack every time. The standard move list on the Gladiator had like a heavy attack, a precise attack, a shield block, etc.

It's obvious those are separate from TP or cooldowns.

Say you hit the standard hit, then move onto the heavy attack, then do a thrust attack and by that time the standard hit will be ready for use again, while getting TP for every of these actions.

I understand where many people come from after watching th videos of random people trying out the demo. They barely had any idea of what to do and how to do it, they just engaged and started pressing keys waiting for something to happen, of course no action was taking until they actually pressed the keys and that's why the fights seemed slow. That was my own impression when I watched the first video.

However after reading Tanaka's explanation, that as simple as it is, it's a good indication of how the combat system works, and it is basically a delay-based action system.

And Kintaro, you just hate on Tanaka like if his comments were just like this because of himself, but you are forgetting that he works for SE and that he makes Final Fantasy games, and you should remember how slowly FF games are unveiled to the public.

Compared to XIII, XIV's pace of info is coming out at a very fast speed.

Edit: You actualy acknowledged SE's to be at fault, so don't mind my previous comment.

 

[SnakeSlashRO]

Will be my first MMO.

Seconded.

 

[Kintaro]

Say you hit the standard hit, then move onto the heavy attack, then do a thrust attack and by that time the standard hit will be ready for use again, while getting TP for every of these actions.

That's called a recast timer and is just easier to explain than what he made it out to be.

And Kintaro, you just hate on Tanaka like if his comments were just like this because of himself, but you are forgetting that he works for SE and that he makes Final Fantasy games, and you should remember how slowly FF games are unveiled to the public.

Compared to XIII, XIV's pace of info is coming out at a very fast speed.

Edit: You actualy acknowledged SE's to be at fault, so don't mind my previous comment.

No, I hate on Tanaka because he has been like this for 6-7 years. He's also a liar (No no! The Moogle expansion will be different than the ACP expansion...LOL NO IT WON'T). He's just a bad communicator. SE is at fault too, but they need someone who can actually communicate clearly to do these interviews.

 

[Cedille]

In any case, this is old info revealed at E3.

At E3, Tanaka said they were still prepared for listening to our desires.

Why did they change the names of races? This really angers me for some raisin...

Because it's not Vana'diel.

 

[Khrno]

Ok, I understand your feellings toward him, and although I agree with you, I want to post the following image, just because it came to mind.

 

[Kintaro]

eh, a picture of Johansson's ass with the title would have worked better.

 

[SuperAngelo64]

I think getting rid of auto-attack and using a 'strong hit/weak hit/block' type of system is a huge step up.

Reminds me of PSO.

 

[StuBurns]

eh, a picture of Johansson's ass with the title would have worked better.

The greatest establishing shot in movie history. You can't watch that film and not fall in love with her. Amazing.

And amazingly off-topic, I apologize, but damn...

It's pretty much thread worthy on it's own.

 

[Khrno]

The thing is that Bill Murray's face shows perfectly Kintaro's emotions towards Tanaka nd co.

Johansson's pic is like the total opposite, but still I appreciate that you have posted it stuburns.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

So I've read a great deal about the game and am looking forward to it a great deal (as I did with XI for a while) but I am curious if its known specifically how "classes" or "jobs" are being handled. I know the idea of being able to switch weapons and therefore skills is part of their idea but does that mean there isn't going to be a "Black Mage" or "Warrior" archetypes?

 

[HylianScribe]

Continuing a discussion from other thread here so as to not resurrect a dead thread.

Sounds like you were expecting too much, there is still a crap load of time for things to change.

There is a reason MMO's have such a long beta peroid.

Since when?, it was tab to scroll through targets and - (or was it *) key to lock on.

But you never had to lock on in FF11 as Tab, Enter, Enter was enough, or Tab >> Macro for a caster, the only time you had to lock on during battle was if you switched target or changed equipment.

There will no doubt be the ability to remap actions to different keys, if thats the case putting the lock button next to the engage button would seem like a wise choice.

The only reason this seem counter intuitive is because the X and enter key are so far across the keyboard that it may seem like more hassle than it should be.

I was not expecting that much. I prefaced and ended my impressions with this was only an alpha, so even with the "flaws" I pointed out, I wanted people to know this was far from anything remotely final.

I got a chance to talk to the Square Enix about the combat, and the guy who explained the stuff to me yesterday was wrong. You do not need to hit "Enter" at anytime. It's Tab to toggle through targets, X to lock on, F to go into combat mode. The F part still seems a bit too much, but at least that is more like FF XI. I should have figured this out, as during my play time finishing that mob quest, I think I hit Tab then X once and I was fighting just fine. Also, I wanted to pay more attention to cool downs on certain abilities.

Yes, you are right - hitting ENTER locked on, but if you were a MAGE and didn't want to be in attack mode, you could toggle a mob and lock to it and cast magic, especially for raids. However, when multitasking, that was never used, it was all F keys. I just meant that XIV's targeting was 1 step too many compared to FF XI, and not like WoW (since FF XI has lock-on, whereas WoW you must master the mouse for combat).

I have an interview with them tomorrow. I'll try to get some more info that's not out there, like pVp stuff, how guilds will work, can they talk more about weapons and "quests" (it sounds so much like MH right now), and will the world be seamless or will there be loading. Anything else you're dying to know, reply back.

 

[Kosma]

This is not off topic at all, this is Final Fantasy.

 

[HappyBivouac]

So I've read a great deal about the game and am looking forward to it a great deal (as I did with XI for a while) but I am curious if its known specifically how "classes" or "jobs" are being handled. I know the idea of being able to switch weapons and therefore skills is part of their idea but does that mean there isn't going to be a "Black Mage" or "Warrior" archetypes?

Excuse me we are talking about Scarlett Johansson's ass now. Please try to keep up.

(I think in a previous interview, they stated they're specifically avoiding classic FF job names this time. Kind of but oh well.)

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Excuse me we are talking about Scarlett Johansson's ass now. Please try to keep up.

(I think in a previous interview, they stated they're specifically avoiding classic FF job names this time. Kind of but oh well.)

Eh, mine's better

Hmmm, interesting choice though seeing as how popular the jobs were.

 

[Khrno]

So I've read a great deal about the game and am looking forward to it a great deal (as I did with XI for a while) but I am curious if its known specifically how "classes" or "jobs" are being handled. I know the idea of being able to switch weapons and therefore skills is part of their idea but does that mean there isn't going to be a "Black Mage" or "Warrior" archetypes?

(I think in a previous interview, they stated they're specifically avoiding classic FF job names this time. Kind of but oh well.)

As Happy said, the names of the jobs will be different this time, well with most of them if not all, for example we have Gladiator as a confirmed job name, and looking at his characteristics is somewhat between a war and a pld, or basically a war with sword and shield lol

Eh, mine's better

Hmmm, interesting choice though seeing as how popular the jobs were.

They just want to go old-school, and take some names out of FFIII and maybe even from Tactics.

 

[LeMaximilian]

And amazingly off-topic, I apologize, but damn...

It's pretty much thread worthy on it's own.

This is the now the greatest media thread of all. Truly.

 

[HappyBivouac]

Anyone have that in 1920x1080?

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

I dont understand why straight men like a woman's asses. What the hell can you do with them? :lol

 

[Ravidrath]

So I've read a great deal about the game and am looking forward to it a great deal (as I did with XI for a while) but I am curious if its known specifically how "classes" or "jobs" are being handled. I know the idea of being able to switch weapons and therefore skills is part of their idea but does that mean there isn't going to be a "Black Mage" or "Warrior" archetypes?

From what I've pieced together, they are not what we generally consider full-on jobs to be, so much as types of skills.

For example, a Black Mage, as FFXI and other FF games often define it, has Elemental Magic, some Enfeebling Magic, and some Enhancing Magic.

I'm guessing that the Warlock, the closest thing to a Black Mage, only has Elemental Magic abilities. An Enchanter, the purported Red Mage equivalent, may only have Enhancing or Enfeebling Magic. A Priest only has healing magic. Etc.!

This is basically why crafting has been pulled into the job system, and why they are avoiding using previous names - any specific skill type is tied to its own job.

 

[LeMaximilian]

I dont understand why straight men like a woman's asses. What the hell can you do with them? :lol

This thread's about to jump ship...

 

[Yoshichan]

It would be so awesome if they skipped the SoM-ATB-thing and went like Seiken Densetsu 3. For those who don't know the system:

You CAN hit constantly (around once per second) but the damage will be greatly reduced. If you wait (till the bar reaches 100%) you'll get the maximum power of your attack. Would add some nice dps/aggro-tactical strategy to the whole battlefield!

 

[HappyBivouac]

It would be so awesome if they skipped the SoM-ATB-thing and went like Seiken Densetsu 3. For those who don't know the system:

You CAN hit constantly (around once per second) but the damage will be greatly reduced. If you wait (till the bar reaches 100%) you'll get the maximum power of your attack. Would add some nice dps/aggro-tactical strategy to the whole battlefield!

There was no bar in SD3. They just imposed a delay on you without showing it, and then you had what was essentially a TP gauge for using special attacks.

Pretty sure you're actually thinking of SoM.

 

[DrDogg]

I'm pretty sure that's called bad design if they go for that. If anything, the requirement for Cure IV would be to use Cure III (with the specific weapon) multiple times and not use a melee attack.

I agree it'd be bad game design, and I would be surprised if mages have to melee when the game hits, but going solely off of what Tanaka said, you can't access certain skills until your weapon is of a certain level. Unless a mage's staff levels up by using spells, I'm still concerned you'll have to melee. I'm concerned, but I assume this will not be the case.

Well thats the point you can't melee as a magic class, when you switch weapons you become a different class all together.

I'm guessing the weapons have skill points much like in FF11, the higher the skill points the higher magic is avalible to you.

You can melee as a magic class. Magic classes use a staff at the very least and I wouldn't be surprised if they have other weapons such as mauls and rods like in FFXI.

And you basically just said exactly what I'm concerned about. The higher the skill points of your weapon the more magic is available. Well how did you level your weapon in FFXI? By meleeing! Even as a WHM if you wanted to cap your staff you had to melee. I'm just hoping this is not the case for FFXIV.

I am too a fan of cross region servers and the auto-translate function as it adds to the game, and (for me) it can make the experience more enjoyable.

As for mages melee, and I am assuming here, I think staff A will give access to X amount of spells (like Cure 1), and once your staff skill is high enough, you can then equip a better staff which will inturn give access to more spells (like Cure 2).

SMN wasn't in FFXI initially (JP release not NA) and I think it fair not to expect a great deal of job/classes at the start. Afterall that is what expansions are for!

As for the original starting zones, man that is a good question....Were Zi'tah and Beaudeax patched in before RoZ? RoZ brought new zones but I don't think they were part of that expansion.

Hmm... not sure if I like your theory on staff A gives access to X amount of spells. I'd much rather my overall skill open up new spells rather than having to upgrade my weapon. I don't want to be limited in the spells I can cast because I don't have enough gil to buy the best weapon or I have to wait a year to get it as a drop in Dynamis.

I'm still curious about the starting zones. Anyone know? Would be nice to have a comparison.

 

[Antagon]

Really like that it is going to be seamless this time. Probably also the reason why there were invisible walls in the demo.

 

[Khrno]

I agree it'd be bad game design, and I would be surprised if mages have to melee when the game hits, but going solely off of what Tanaka said, you can't access certain skills until your weapon is of a certain level. Unless a mage's staff levels up by using spells, I'm still concerned you'll have to melee. I'm concerned, but I assume this will not be the case.

We still don't know how exactly are we going to get the abilities, as in will they come out on certain weapons, or will they just become available when we reach that skill number, either way, I don't really thing that mages would have to melee to skill up.

I agree that it would be very akward having to melee all the way to skill cap to obtain something like RR3. But casting Cure I at the beginning will level your healing skill and then learn all the spells in sucession by whatever means they are supposed to be learnt.

There might as well be melee abilities that are learnt from actual meleing with the staves and clubs, but I don't think they will be a requirement for actually learning magic.

 

[Yoshichan]

I agree it'd be bad game design, and I would be surprised if mages have to melee when the game hits, but going solely off of what Tanaka said, you can't access certain skills until your weapon is of a certain level. Unless a mage's staff levels up by using spells, I'm still concerned you'll have to melee. I'm concerned, but I assume this will not be the case.

Yeah this will probably happen (the bold part).

 

[Antagon]

This actually answers that question (you just get 'xp' for your weapons when you kill mobs).

 

[Classic_Gs]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/Chrono21/488.jpg/img]

This actually answers that question (you just get 'xp' for your weapons when you kill mobs).[/QUOTE]
That is another idea in that mobs give skill points which a player uses to unlock a skill from their current weapon. So mages will not melee, but just need to have the weapon (staff) equipped in order to apply skill points to unlock the skill/spell.

 

[Yoshichan]

Oh and based on the latest videos, (the warrior) hits the enemies for 350+ which are pretty high numbers for FFXI. Will they change the overall hit points of the enemies in this game? Will you, by the end of the FFXIV-life-time hit 9999?

 

[Classic_Gs]

Oh and based on the latest videos, (the warrior) hits the enemies for 350+ which are pretty high numbers for FFXI. Will they change the overall hit points of the enemies in this game? Will you, by the end of the FFXIV-life-time hit 9999?

That would be awesome as I always wanted to magic burst a mob for 9999 damage

 

[NeoForte]

So, no more auto attack...instead, you have to manually pick attack each time, but have to wait on the gauge the attack to actually carry out... WTF is the difference exactly again? It's like carrying over ATB to the game or something.

I think the BLM equivilent is being called a Thaumaturge from the example pulled from the official site (in dynamis Vanguard Thaumaturge are Quadav BLMs).

 

[Alex]

You CAN hit constantly (around once per second) but the damage will be greatly reduced. If you wait (till the bar reaches 100%) you'll get the maximum power of your attack. Would add some nice dps/aggro-tactical strategy to the whole battlefield!

This wasn't just SD3, this was already like that in SoM/SD2. There was a percentage meter that quickly ticked up after an attack.

For me, I'm very happy with how it seems like it's going to be. Removing the auto attack feature and instead putting in ATB and TP generating sub commands (strong/precise/block/etc) to support it is a great idea.

 

[falastini]

Oh and based on the latest videos, (the warrior) hits the enemies for 350+ which are pretty high numbers for FFXI. Will they change the overall hit points of the enemies in this game? Will you, by the end of the FFXIV-life-time hit 9999?

It's already been said that they bufffed them just for demo purposes.

 

[Khrno]

Oh and based on the latest videos, (the warrior) hits the enemies for 350+ which are pretty high numbers for FFXI. Will they change the overall hit points of the enemies in this game? Will you, by the end of the FFXIV-life-time hit 9999?

The Gladiator.


The characters were overpowered, everyone has already confirmed this, and mobs were probably low levels. The state of the demo was alpha, so the numbers we are seing right don't tell us that much.

However we could expect to have a higher damage cap than the one in XI. I just don't want any 9999 dmg or 9999 HP bullshit. Keep the numbers low, I don't want to kill a stupid mid level chicken witha 100k HP even if it just takes me 30s to deal that amount of dmg.

 

[SolidusDave]

again some quotes of the FFXIVCore interview, I think they explain quite a bit from the character development/FF14-gameplay

Guild leaves itself is like instances. Other people will not be able to interfer with you.

Mhh, so I guess the mobs spawn when someone with the matching Guildleve arrives at "point A/B"? At least the Puks spawned after the other necessary mobs were killed (as an surprise?).
Maybe similar to the ??? spawns in FFXI, but with a player proximity.

I wonder, because it looked like these were standard mobs of the area.

It will be slightly different from Final Fantasy Tactics system. You will be gaining abilities by leveling up your skills, but, its not the same as Final Fantasy Tactics. So if you're having a high skill in something it doesnt mean the other one is going to be lower. if you grow in one skill and it gets high, you can still level up your other skills high.

more:

But it depends on how you're going to select your skills and developing your character. So when you reach a certain skill and/or gain certain skills, you will have a title for yourself.

I could imagine these titles could be important for partymember search. Maybe they will just let you see all the skill-levels of a player, but it could be done with a Title, too (including specializations of the class it seems)

It depends on what weapon you use. And again, we're calling it a class system in FFXIV this time, so it's not a job system. This new system will allow for a lot flexibility, and also because you can switch weapons between the battles (not during battles) this is giving you much more variety.

Auto-run/Auto-follow and Macros will be in FF14, too.

 

[Yoshichan]

There was no bar in SD3. They just imposed a delay on you without showing it, and then you had what was essentially a TP gauge for using special attacks.

Pretty sure you're actually thinking of SoM.

Yes sorry, I'm drunk Reverse that, I was thinking of SoM.

It's already been said that they bufffed them just for demo purposes.

Good!

 

[Yoshichan]

The Gladiator.

The HUME, WARRIOR.

 

[Khrno]

Ok, sorry. I didn't see that video

Spoiler

In my defense, that job might not be called warrior >.<

 

[Kintaro]

BTW, WTF is up with the weird ass names in this game? Guildleaves? That's weird even for the Japanese. I hope they look at that and change it up before release.

 

[Yoshichan]

Ok, sorry. I didn't see that video

Spoiler

In my defense, that job might not be called warrior >.<

I was kind of just being ignorant there :lol Ignoring all the new names (Lalafel, what the fuck?) They'll always be Taru!