I'm right there with you. If I want The Witcher, I can just play The Witcher, there's a great trilogy of those games already out. I want a japanese game, with all the jank that might come with the package.
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Final Fantasy XV interview: Tabata talks delays, Versus, fan expectation and more
- Thread starter Koozek
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I'm right there with you. If I want The Witcher, I can just play The Witcher, there's a great trilogy of those games already out. I want a japanese game, with all the jank that might come with the package.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'm fine with this. Anime game is anime.I think what Jason is getting at is simple:
If you're OK with this, great! The body language in FFXV probably won't bother you.
If you're not OK with this then you will be sadlike Crossing Eden.
I agree. It's why I play them.
Though I could do without the "Yuffie/Selphi/Gladio's sister" trope. lol
hi5
(Although Iris' body language really does go with the Japanese dialogue better)
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'll just imagine her saying "eeeeeeeei" and "sugoi" a lot.
This isn't about good media for the demographic, this is about RPGs for that demographic. The problem with anime and light novels in Japan making people who do not consume those medium roll their eyes and laugh is the exact same problem that the west has with young adult fiction. Twilight, Hunger Games, Maze Runner, Divergent. Filled with stupid tropes, power fantasies for young people, rage against the system cliches, terrible dialogue, overdramatic garbage. If RPGs from the west were written for those audiences, it would be garbage too. In fact, we actually know that for a fact, just look at any thread talking about the writing in Blizzard games.
Wait a minute. I never made that connection :O Also "one-winged angel".
EDIT: Oh, and yeah, the concept art on the bottom is from 2011 or so.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The witcher isn't even an outlier. That's the issue. It shouldn't be expected that a Japanese game will have subpar writing and dialogue, that sort of complacency is how we got here in the first place.
Aside from the hairstyles this is the most realistic looking FF game. "Based on reality" on all that.
I see what you're saying, I've only seen the first hunger games and that was some genuinely good stuff, can't say the same for twilight, maze runner, and divergent as those are pretty terrible films. I suppose they do share the same tropes as anime like a really bland self insert protagonist being the norm and ofc all the tropes and metaphors for adult life and exams and shit which is really grating.This isn't about good media for the demographic, this is about RPGs for that demographic. The problem with anime and light novels in Japan making people who do not consume those medium roll their eyes and laugh is the exact same problem that the west has with young adult fiction. Twilight, Hunger Games, Maze Runner, Divergent. Filled with stupid tropes, power fantasies for young people, rage against the system cliches, terrible dialogue, overdramatic garbage. If RPGs from the west were written for those audiences, it would be garbage too. In fact, we actually know that for a fact, just look at any thread talking about the writing in Blizzard games.
This isn't about good media for the demographic, this is about RPGs for that demographic. The problem with anime and light novels in Japan making people who do not consume those medium roll their eyes and laugh is the exact same problem that the west has with young adult fiction. Twilight, Hunger Games, Maze Runner, Divergent. Filled with stupid tropes, power fantasies for young people, rage against the system cliches, terrible dialogue, overdramatic garbage. If RPGs from the west were written for those audiences, it would be garbage too. In fact, we actually know that for a fact, just look at any thread talking about the writing in Blizzard games.
That's also a great point.
YankeeDonB
Member
As someone incredibly hyped for XV, W3 dialogue is damn fine. It's a bit up and down (not surprising given script length), but, at its best, it's almost like a more action packed post-communist Eastern European satire. Like Vaclav Havel wrote Game of Thrones while consulting heavily with Kurosawa.
I don't think it's at all a good stand in for AAA Western game writing, really doing its own thing.
Not in terms of voice acting and direction. But in terms of writing style and quality? It's a good 3 s.d. from the AAA Western mean.
Anime has tons of different artstyles.
Good point.This isn't about good media for the demographic, this is about RPGs for that demographic. The problem with anime and light novels in Japan making people who do not consume those medium roll their eyes and laugh is the exact same problem that the west has with young adult fiction. Twilight, Hunger Games, Maze Runner, Divergent. Filled with stupid tropes, power fantasies for young people, rage against the system cliches, terrible dialogue, overdramatic garbage. If RPGs from the west were written for those audiences, it would be garbage too. In fact, we actually know that for a fact, just look at any thread talking about the writing in Blizzard games.
Agreed. FF has to finally do something about its writing. Get fresh blood, maybe from outside the Anime/game industry.
Wait a minute. I never made that connection :O Also "one-winged angel".
fuck you guys stop spoiling the game by jumping to conclusions like this!!!!!
damn it!!!
I think what Jason is getting at is simple:
If you're OK with this, great! The body language in FFXV probably won't bother you.
If you're not OK with this then you will be sad
I'm in the middle of the road, I guess. I'm totally fine with this kind of anime shit, I love it, even, but it's not very well done here. The animation itself isn't very good or natural, and it doesn't fit with the more realistic models. It should be quite a bit mor subtle.
I'm ok with exaggerated body language when the visual style is a lot more stylized.
Like this:
On the far opposite side, another game that bothers me with the way characters move in cutscenes and dialogue is The Witcher 3, it's so weird, it feels like people are waiting until it's their turn to talk to even start reacting. The editing of those scenes is also pretty bad, but much improved from the second game.
I don't think I'm doing this correctly
Yo, you put into words that... weird feeling I get with most games that have dialogue-option close ups.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Have you actually been led by that to believe this game isnt unabashedly anime?
It's Final Fantasy. I presume this game will have giggling genki girls, melodramatic angst and histrionics, and villains who smugly pose and say "hrmph".
I'd honestly say that someone put off by that is looking at the wrong series.
The concept art on the bottom in my post above is from 2010/2011 or so, btw.
Hm, don't know what you mean?^^Koozek, is that the same woman's face in all 3 pics?!
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It does but games are a bit more homogenous than anime. And there's a lot more of sticking to the same tropes instead of branching out.
Eastern media can be genuinely good that's why I hate the insinuation that Japanese is supposed or expected to be bad. Or that that's part of their culture. As if people would suddenly be in an uproar if we got a JRPG with a incredibly well written or even up to par dialogue.
Then maybe they shouldn't have made such efforts to make everything look more believable and stop calling it a fantasy based on reality, as in, what if a FF game took place in our world. Like, it's not bad to expect better in 2016.
fuck you guys stop spoiling the game by jumping to conclusions like this!!!!!
damn it!!!
Lol, I doubt there's a connection. Or, who knows, maybe we'll end up killing Ardyn who turns out to be a god, which I would find super boring and predictable :/ LR's ending was the absolute overkill and saturation point for me when it comes to this FF trope.
YankeeDonB
Member
I don't think the writing in JRPGs is as blanket bad as you do, nor the writing in the west very good. But no denying the translations and voice direction of most big Japanese games could be better, can't argue with that.
Wait a minute. I never made that connection :O Also "one-winged angel".
EDIT: Oh, and yeah, the concept art on the bottom is from 2011 or so.
Well that's some shit.
JRPG != Japan. For all the silliness the series tends to have, Yakuza games still get a pretty good rep for cutscene direction and character portrayal. That's as Japanese as you can get, and a good example of how they're keeping up with the times even with less budget. The Souls games don't get a bad rep either, and there's actual debate if they should even be considered "JRPGs" because they don't fit the stereotype of.... JRPGs. So clearly the stigma is less about Japan at large, and more about a specific subset of output from Japan.
I think the past two pages are on to something though. A lot of people who consume Japanese media are looking for stuff that's distinctly... Japanese.
There is some merit to wanting to reach out to a larger userbase rather than remaining inward-looking, but at the same time cranking that dial to 11 is just going to result in a culture shock.
It's sorta like Bollywood. People who dig Bollywood dig Bollywood because it's Bollywood. Take out the absurdly over-the-top action scenes and dance routines to appeal to a larger market, and it's no longer Bollywood even if the script was originally Hindi or Tamil or whatevs.
There is some merit to wanting to reach out to a larger userbase rather than remaining inward-looking, but at the same time cranking that dial to 11 is just going to result in a culture shock.
It's sorta like Bollywood. People who dig Bollywood dig Bollywood because it's Bollywood. Take out the absurdly over-the-top action scenes and dance routines to appeal to a larger market, and it's no longer Bollywood even if the script was originally Hindi or Tamil or whatevs.
But even anime and manga based on this thread get that bad rep, when within that category we have huge differences of genre and implementation of stories based on the writer involved, even in specific genres where you would expect 100% homogeneity.
A little bit more nuance of thought in regards to opening the mind a bit more to the fact that "anime" is not just a super defined thing you can throw at a plot or characters and assume its bad or good is all we're saying.
But let a British director tap into the perceived essence of a Bollywood film and express it without the absurdly over-the-top action scenes and dance routines to appeal to a larger market, and you get an Academy Award winner!
Cromartie
YankeeDonB
Member
Hmmm, my favorites are Samurai Champloo and FLCL, but I'm hardly up-to-date. Oh, and Polar Bear Cafe is extremely on point writing wise for what it is.
That's also a good point, but i'd argue that what some people would argue is Japanese isn't necessarily because its Japanese, but because its a subset of Japan that they are exposed to and so paint with broad strokes so to speak.
What we know about plots from FF aren't even all the same. FF12, Tactics,games like 6..and then we have games like 1-5, games like 9, games like 7 or 8 or 10...
Its all different, depending on who you ask.
Google says that's a football player
EDIT: Ah, got it. Cromartie High School. Hm, might check it out someday. But first I have to check out 91 Days, which Kagari has been repping hard recently.
Diamond is Unbreakable, obviously.
Dunno about best but Cowboy Bebop and Steins;Gate immediately come to mind.
Cowboy Bebop is the GOAT for me.
Google says that's a football player
EDIT: Ah, got it. Cromartie High School. Hm, might check it out someday. But first I have to check out 91 Days, which that Kagari has been repping hard recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxEsWaUMwL4#t=13s
Mediking
Member
What would you like in Final Fantasy XVI, Duckroll???
YankeeDonB
Member
How does this compare to school rumble?
I have to agree with you..I am tired of it and I don't want.
But I think you hit the nail on the head with your analysis there.Let's not forget that FFXIII had its ending on the logo.Could be the same with XV.
Hmm, will put it on my list if I ever find the time and mood for Animes someday.
Bebop is one of my all-time fave shows in general
Yoko Kanno composing for a FF would be a dream.
Btw, Monster is my favorite Anime besides Bebop. Haven't watched any for years now, except for Kids on the Slope a few years ago, and recently AJIN on Netflix. I just can't stand a lot of the tropes and VA anymore. And Moe is the worst thing that ever happened to mankind.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Very much this.
Like I want great stories and good writing. But when some people are asking for "great stories and better writing", I wonder if what they really mean is that they wished it looked and sounded like natural American English dialogue. And I think if that were the case, they will have sanded off the edges of what I like about this.
I think FF should be a little embarrassingly earnest and melodramatic. I think it should have cutesy moments. I think it should sound very unlike what I am used to from Hollywood because the "other" is actually a part of the appeal.
I wish FF were more of a smart arthouse anime than a shounen anime, but that it is visibly Japanese and "other" is not a bug, it's a feature.
That depends on who your asking and what they specifically want from an anime in general. If we're talking in terms of mainstream critical acclaim(not popularity) Some would say Cowboy Bebop or Trigun. Others would pick movies like Ghost in the Shell 1995 or Akira or Grave of the firelies. There are those who would put the original Gundam 0079 up there.
For me, i can't really pick. There are too many i've seen. My favorite manga of all time though is Chrno Crusade. It has a sense of adventure and starts out fairly innocuously, but keeps on building to the point where there is nothing else to call it but a masterpiece of writing and fleshed out human like characters.
Wish there was an anime of it.
Isn't that The Spirits Within?
Honeslty,I'd be very excited if they announce a game starring Aki Ross!!
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I realize that JRPGs!=Japan, but in a lot of discusses you find that some people consider it to be part of their culture to constantly stagnant and such. I actually think that part of the reason the Souls series is so successful is because of how little of an influence anime has on it, (besides unabashedly taking designs from Berserk). Really not into Yakuza so can't comment on that. I agree that the stigma shouldn't be about Japan specifically but from common tropes of JRPGs specifically, which are let's be honest, anime tropes.
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