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[Slayven]

People in Marvel universe don't Cyclops to succeed.....
Holy shit Cyclops is really one of those leaders in minority groups who really is opinionated and woke to the very end but won't settle for less. So people trying to replace him with others who play ball more and fight less.

Damn that is a good comparison.

It's threads like these that remind me I am better off not writing about comics for Wizard, not editing stories about comics for Wizard, and not reading comic books except for a few select titles not mired in a morass of continuity or BS.

And I'm also glad the X-Men lost me about the time Morrison turned Magneto into a drug addict and everyone developed more powers because one set wasn't enough.

You don't miss getting paid in ass out pinups of Fairchild or Witchblade?

 

[MHWilliams]

You told me you didn't because they killed Maggot, and depowered Stacy X

Still holding out hope for Synch to return or Thunderbird II to get some shine.

People in Marvel universe don't Cyclops to succeed.....
Holy shit Cyclops is really one of those leaders in minority groups who really is opinionated and woke to the very end but won't settle for less. So people trying to replace him with others who play ball more and fight less.

Yes. This has always been my explanation for why angry Cyclops is the best. He's the natural outcome of years of cuddly attempts ending in death by Sentinel, Reaver, or other. The Avengers showing up at their doorstep to take one of their children was just the last straw.

 

[Ponn]

Cyclops is the new punching bag of the MU, sorry Parker. They screwed him over so much they had to bring his younger version in to start over.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

Damn that is a good comparison.

Was this intentional by Marvel?

 

[Slayven]

Still holding out hope for Synch to return or Thunderbird II to get some shine.



Yes. This has always been my explanation for why angry Cyclops is the best. He's the natural outcome of years of cuddly attempts ending in death by Sentinel, Reaver, or other. The Avengers showing up at their doorstep to take one of their children was just the last straw.

Now you are just being mean. Youi know the only person i cared about from the X-treme X-men was Lifesaver

Was this intentional by Marvel?

I doubt it, maybe just the planets aligning at the right time

 

[MHWilliams]

Now you are just being mean. Youi know the only person i cared about from the X-treme X-men was Lifesaver

But that would require bringing Lifeguard back as well. They are a set.

 

[Kinyou]

Yay, finally. I imagine will also reveal the fate of Emma Frost and other Xmen bigshots

 

[MC Safety]

You don't miss getting paid in ass out pinups of Fairchild or Witchblade?

Too much salt raises the blood pressure. We got paid in Garebucks.

And I still have the prototype Fairchild action figure with the interesting paint job.

 

[Palette Swap]

Was this intentional by Marvel?

I don't think it was, but to give them some credit, their writers did let things flow organically. They just shone a spotlight on mutants being hunted down and blown up while everyone else was like "I'm so sorry for you. Now you be a nice peaceful mutant and suffer quietly".

The most interesting part is how they managed to kill a sacred cow by shedding parts of "Xavier's dream" as it had become this thing that justified telling mutants to shut the fuck up and be nice, much like that revisionist fantasy about MLK can be used to police people.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Why isn't the rest of the Marvel Universe royally pissed with the Inhumans? They set off a bomb that caused a cloud that's directly responsible for the deaths of many people across the world... and everyone is cool with them.

EDIT: Hell, they sterilized the entire mutant population.

 

[MHWilliams]

Why isn't the rest of the Marvel Universe royally pissed with the Inhumans? They set off a bomb that caused a cloud that's directly responsible for the deaths of many people across the world... and everyone is cool with them.

EDIT: Hell, they sterilized the entire mutant population.

The latter part is the thing that doesn't make sense to me. Given this, Cyclops' attack seems... in character and correct?

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

The latter part is the thing that doesn't make sense to me. Given this, Cyclops' attack seems... in character and correct?

Exactly, I'm not seeing any scenario where Cyclops is the villain here.

 

[King Gilga]

Does anyone care what happens to cyclops?

 

[Zakalwe]

I've always been unsure of Cyclops' potential. How powerful is he currently/has he been lately?

His effectiveness seems to fluctuate a great deal.

Cyclops is a bitch and nothing will ever change that. Take that L cyclops..

Cyclops helped make Cable so he gets +1m points before we even consider his own character.

 

[Palette Swap]

Does anyone care what happens to cyclops?

Dude, did you miss the thread?

 

[Lothars]

Does anyone care what happens to cyclops?

Considering Cyclops is one of the best characters in the marvel universe absolutely.

Cyclops helped make Cable so he gets +1m points before we even consider his own character.

Cable is amazing as well.

 

[Slayven]

I would argue that along with Hank Pym, Cyclops has been one of the best written and complex characters of the last 10 years.

 

[guek]

I haven't been a fan of Cyclops since before Schism and have actively disliked where they took him with AvX and beyond. Beast is a bigger POS though so whatever. At least Scott is a legit interesting character, even if I liked him better before he was Magneto-lite

 

[Neoxon]

So they're finally filling that gap in the timeline. Good.

 

[super-famicom]

Twist: Adult Cyclops is alive and joins the Inhumans
Heel turn confirmed.
Book it

CYCLOPS IS WRONG

 

[Neoxon]

But but but this was supposed to be the end of the x-men because Fox and that one facebook post about a cell phone game?

Did Neoxon lie to me!?!?

I only said that the video game side of things were fucked up, not the comics. I even noted that the mutants in the comics were more-or-less fine.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

I still don't get how he's wrong.

 

[Neoxon]

I still don't get how he's wrong.

He kinda sparked a war between the mutants & Inhumans, sooooo.....

 

[MHWilliams]

He kinda sparked a war between the mutants & Inhumans, sooooo.....

Once again:

EDIT: Hell, they sterilized the entire mutant population.

He didn't spark a war. That was the spark. If I gas your home, even accidentally, you're probably going to be angry at me.

I thought the Inhumans set off the bomb first?

They did.

 

[Suzzopher]

He kinda sparked a war between the mutants & Inhumans, sooooo.....

I thought the Inhumans set off the bomb first?

 

[Palette Swap]

I would argue that along with Hank Pym, Cyclops has been one of the best written and complex characters of the last 10 years.

Doom and Namor would probably feature on my list on these two, but yeah.
It might just be me, but all four of these characters are on an antihero scale, and I feel that over the past 10-15 years, we've seen the mainstream part of the medium really mature over these.
From the violent vigilante sociopaths of the eighties to the gun pouches xtreme grimdark adolescent bullshit of the nineties, to the Millaresque superpowered assholes of the late nineties / early oughts, I think capes are reaching a point of genuinely interesting ambiguity.
I'm cutting out all these eras through the prism of colored memories when it's really a continuum, but that's my take on it.

 

[Coriolanus]

I would argue that along with Hank Pym, Cyclops has been one of the best written and complex characters of the last 10 years.

Indeed. His portrayal in ultimatum was one for the ages.

On a more serious note, there was a period when i thought that maybe we'd reliably get good Banner stories, but that was a Very Short period indeed, immediately followed by the abortion known as Doc Green.

 

[guek]

I still don't get how he's wrong.

I don't agree with his prioritizing the militarization of young mutants as child soldiers over their education and childhood. There was always going to be a degree of militarization with young new X-men because that's what's necessary to keep mutants safe, but when you're branded as a terrorist group, justified or not, maybe your organization isn't the best place for children.

In short, Wolverine was right.

 

[Neoxon]

He didn't spark a war. That was the spark. If I gas your home, even accidentally, you're probably going to be angry at me.

Fair enough. But from the way Cyclops is mentioned in EXM, he only added fuel to the fire.

 

[Rhaknar]

Cyclops is as dead as Jean and Wolverine. All three are technically dead, and all three are walking around in the Marvel Universe lol

Now tell me what happened to Emma, that's the real tragedy

 

[Neoxon]

Cyclops is as dead as Jean and Wolverine. All three are technically dead, and all three are walking around in the Marvel Universe lol

Now tell me what happened to Emma, that's the real tragedy

This is the real question that's bothering me.

 

[Supermanisdead]

Why isn't the rest of the Marvel Universe royally pissed with the Inhumans? They set off a bomb that caused a cloud that's directly responsible for the deaths of many people across the world... and everyone is cool with them.

EDIT: Hell, they sterilized the entire mutant population.

That's the problem when editorial wants to force a storyline and the writers simply aren't up to dealing with it. Instead, you are going to have the Sunspot and Dazzler coughing up blood while the rest of their Avengers and Inhuman teammates laugh and go bowling.

 

[MHWilliams]

I don't agree with his prioritizing the militarization of young mutants as child soldiers over their education and childhood. There was always going to be a degree of militarization with young new X-men because that's what's necessary to keep mutants safe, but when you're branded as a terrorist group, justified or not, maybe your organization isn't the best place for children.

In short, Wolverine was right.

I disagree, if only because Wolverine tried and failed to swing in the other direction. Wolverine and The X-Men was probably the best case for "The children need to know how to defend themselves". Cyclops didn't say "no classes", he said "there are no non-combatants". The nature of the Marvel universe means he's always correct on this. The X-Men do not have the luxury of keeping their children safe from their world.

Once again, the nature of the Marvel Universe is that conflict drives stories. The Xavier/Jean Grey/Whatever School will always be attacked.

Again:

And again:

And again:

And again:

See also: Genosha

The entire X-Men concept is predicated on a school that trains young people with powers to be superheroes in a world that hates and fear them. Wolverine's stance in Schism was they shouldn't be soldiers under any circumstance. Cyclops believes that they need to know how to defend themselves as a last resort. The veteran X-Men stand in front of them, but they won't always be there. And that's the truth. As seen in Wolverine and the X-Men, a book that turned a character whose mutant power is extra eyes into a combatant.

 

[Suzzopher]

I love you Mike.

 

[Slayven]

Doom and Namor would probably feature on my list on these two, but yeah.
It might just be me, but all four of these characters are on an antihero scale, and I feel that over the past 10-15 years, we've seen the mainstream part of the medium really mature over these.
From the violent vigilante sociopaths of the eighties to the gun pouches xtreme grimdark adolescent bullshit of the nineties, to the Millaresque superpowered assholes of the late nineties / early oughts, I think capes are reaching a point of genuinely interesting ambiguity.
I'm cutting out all these eras through the prism of colored memories when it's really a continuum, but that's my take on it.

Shades of grey actually becoming gray instead of faded black or dirty white.

Indeed. His portrayal in ultimatum was one for the ages.

On a more serious note, there was a period when i thought that maybe we'd reliably get good Banner stories, but that was a Very Short period indeed, immediately followed by the abortion known as Doc Green.

Bannertech was the God

 

[guek]

I disagree, if only because Wolverine tried and failed to swing in the other direction. Wolverine and The X-Men was probably the best case for "The children need to know how to defend themselves". Cyclops didn't say "no classes", he said "there are no non-combatants". The nature of the Marvel universe means he's always correct on this. The X-Men do not have the luxury of keeping their children safe from their world.

Once again, the nature of the Marvel Universe is that conflict drives stories. The Xavier/Jean Grey/Whatever School will always be attacked.

Again:


And again:


And again:


And again:


See also: Genosha


The entire X-Men concept is predicated on a school that trains young people with powers to be superheroes in a world that hates and fear them. Wolverine's stance in Schism was they shouldn't be soldiers under any circumstance. Cyclops believes that they need to know how to defend themselves as a last resort. The veteran X-Men stand in front of them, but they won't always be there. And that's the truth. As seen in Wolverine and the X-Men, a book that turned a character whose mutant power is extra eyes into a combatant.

How did Wolverine fail? Do you mean he didn't prevent the children from becoming embroiled in the violence surrounding mutants?

I don't disagree that there are no mutant non-combatants but that doesn't mean Cyclops' extremism is the best place for mutant children. If I had a mutant child in the marvel universe, I'd much rather they went to the X-mansion than into hiding with Cyclops.

Maybe I'm just biased though since AvX temporarily turned Cyclops into a fascist and WatXm ended up being better than pretty much any other X-book at the time of publishing.

 

[Primethius]

I love Cyclops. But I pretty much dropped all the X-Books midway through that shitfest AvX because it was becoming clear what sort of direction Marvel wanted to take the whole thing.

Inhumans are such a terrible replacement. One half-decent book. Yay...!

 

[MHWilliams]

I love you Mike.

I love you too.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Fair enough. But from the way Cyclops is mentioned in EXM, he only added fuel to the fire.

Lmao. They sterilised the entire species and are doing exactly nothing to stop or reverse this. I'm not sure Cyclops could have done anything short of retaliate in kind that could be classed as adding fuel to the fire.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Wow! It sounds like I'm just waaaaay behind on this... Fuck! OK... I need a guide.

 

[Emperor_EL]

I hope that when Cyclops comes back he brings Corporal Scott Summers & Howlett with him.

 

[Dalek]

All this Cyclops love in this thread turns my stomach.

 

[Slayven]

I hope that when Cyclops comes back he brings Corporal Scott Summers & Howlett with him.

And Ruby Summers

Stay mad parallax

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

And Ruby Summers

Stay mad parallax

Ruby was awesome. The best thing about the Scott/Emma pairing.

 

[The Silver]

As far as I'm concerned the X-men is in filler mode until Cyclops comes back.

It's funny, I started reading comics a few years ago and I came in with the typical Cyclops is a loser mindset because of other media, turned out he had the most well developed and compelling character arc in Marvel. I mean really for a medium that likes to reset certain things and backtrack/ignore certain character developments whenever writers change Cyclops was just incredibly consistent for a long time.

 

[Parallax]

And Ruby Summers

Stay mad parallax

her last huraah was secret wars. she isnt coming back

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

her last huraah was secret wars. she isnt coming back

Which spin-off was she in?

 

[MHWilliams]

How did Wolverine fail? Do you mean he didn't prevent the children from becoming embroiled in the violence surrounding mutants?

He did not. The difference between Wolverine's school and what came before was slight at best. I mean, the current school - sorry, X-Haven - is in Limbo for God's sake. I mean the difference between this:

And the rest was a full-scale assault on that school by the US government. (Led Norman Osborn, in his position as the nominal head of HAMMER.)

I don't disagree that there are no mutant non-combatants but that doesn't mean Cyclops' extremism is the best place for mutant children. If I had a mutant child in the marvel universe, I'd much rather they went to the X-mansion than into hiding with Cyclops.

Maybe I'm just biased though since AvX temporarily turned Cyclops into a fascist and WatXm ended up being better than pretty much any other X-book at the time of publishing.

That is the biggest point. Aaron made Wolverine and the X-Men such a fun and lively book. Wolverine's way isn't any better, but WatX was a blast to read.

Which spin-off was she in?

Future Imperfect.

 

[Imperfected]

I'm not saying that Cyclops isn't interesting, I'm just saying he's the biggest slut in the Marvel universe. Everyone knows that he's an easier rebound than a pick-up game against the Hobbiton Pipers after second breakfast.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

He did not. The difference between Wolverine's school and what came before was slight at best. I mean, the current school - sorry, X-Haven - is in Limbo for God's sake. I mean the difference between this:



And the rest was a full-scale assault on that school by the US government. (Led Norman Osborn, in his position as the nominal head of HAMMER.)





That is the biggest point. Aaron made Wolverine and the X-Men such a fun and lively book. Wolverine's way isn't any better, but WatX was a blast to read.



Future Imperfect.

Welp, time to read that one. With regards to Wolverine's way, in practice it wasn't even any different from Cyclops'. They still had Danger Room training, they still wound up fighting for their lives.