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Firewatch | Spoiler Discussion

Unison

Member
Spent the entire day thinking about this game. Still haven't fully come to terms with whether actually I like it or not. One thing I will say, from my experience, it achieves everything it set out to do. The whole experience feels very purposefully authored and complete in a way that a lot of games don't.

Ultimately I think a lot of discourse about Firewatch will be whether the player enjoyed the game for what it is rather than what it could have been.

I don't know... I get the sentiment, but the dialogue was often forced (which could be partially attributed to the uneasy emotional states of the characters, but felt too often to me like weak writing)... the plot doesn't quite make sense in retrospect (as observed in this thread), and there seemed to me a firm disconnect between the notion that the characters are damaged people and what you spend most of the game doing.

Looking back, I don't really appreciate the time that I spent playing the game, even taking into account the small goals that it sets out for itself. I get its prevailing metaphors, but those aren't that compelling (I find the invocation of Alzheimers emotionally cheap, to be honest), and other games have already done this sort of thing better, so it's not even novel.
 

Catvoca

Banned
Sorry to ask this again, but doesn't anyone know if anything changes if you take all the supplies out of the supply box? I only took the ones meant for Henry's tower, I was curious if there was consequences for if you took more.
 

AzerPhire

Member
The backpack is the one muddy piece I have with the story. It seems more likely it was left behind by Brian and Ned had a different way of getting into the cave with the climbing gear. Was it hidden in a spot that needed the axe to clear?

The backpack is not there earlier in the game. I stumbled on that area, cleared the tress (No axe required) and nothing was there.

Seems Ned left it there for Henry to find.
 

Coonce

Member
I'm going further down the conspiracy hole here, but just hear me out.

what if at the very end, when Delilah told the helicopter pilot that there was "one other person coming"

she was talking about Ned. (!)


no, not really, I highly doubt it.

I enjoyed the story in the game though, it wasn't what I was expecting, but I didn't expect a giant conspiracy theory either, so I leave happily surprised.
 
The problem is this game and Gone Home both purposefully try to trick the player into thinking there is really more going on than there really is. At the end if some players are disappointed by that then the developers have only themselves to blame. I'm cool with more human and grounded stories, but both of these games employ so much misdirection its like the developers are trying to have it both ways. And that comes off as a little cheap to me.

I think the difference to me is that here there is still *something* going on. It's not a government conspiracy and it's not a serial killer but it's still a crazy dude who represents a physical threat to Henry.

There was a point near the end where I thought there might literally be nothing going on and I think if that had been the case I would have been disappointed.
 
I loved it.

I'm so happy a game like this can exist. Just a story about two people going through difficult times in their lives. Two people immensely lonely despite the fact that they have each other for months.

So lonely that they'll imagine conspiracies where they are none. Conspiracies where they hope, maybe subconsciously, that there's something larger at work going on, just so they can feel like they're important and part of something bigger.


But they're not. And that's why Delilah feels so empty after discovering that it was just Ned all along. And when the girls are found safe and in jail, she can't even be a part of that story either.


And Henry too. He keeps running after every suspicious thing because he wants some sort of human contact. He doesn't care if it puts his life at risk, he just needs...something. Anything. Just so his life can have some sort of importance or meaning.

But he can't ever find anyone. The girls are too far away. His stalker is always just out of reach. His attacker ran away before he could see anything. The person who locked the door behind him got away quickly. The guy in his lookout tower was gone seconds before he got back there. Delilah gets away on a helicopter before he can see her.

He can't even prevent or create fires. He's just powerless. Powerless to help his wife. Powerless in his relationship with Delilah. Powerless in his ability to scare those girls since someone else scared them away for him.

In the end, it's just a story of two lonely people, connected by a simple radio, and even their most convincing conspiracies were built up out of nothing.


It was a beautiful story unlike anything I've ever seen in a game. I'm so happy for Campo Santo and what they created.

This. All of this right here.
 
Sorry to ask this again, but doesn't anyone know if anything changes if you take all the supplies out of the supply box? I only took the ones meant for Henry's tower, I was curious if there was consequences for if you took more.

I took them all, and there was a brief scene that showed Henry walking to the Outhouse with some TP in his hand, and D confronts him about it. A couple of funny dialogue lines later the day ends and a new one starts. That's all that I noticed
 

Catvoca

Banned
I took them all, and there was a brief scene that showed Henry walking to the Outhouse with some TP in his hand, and D confronts him about it. A couple of funny dialogue lines later the day ends and a new one starts. That's all that I noticed

Huh, that's a little strange, it seemed like taking all of them was an awful thing to do, so I assumed D would at least give him a bunch of crap about it.
 

plc268

Member
I'm pretty much in agreement with the majority on the ending... it's just meh.

What annoyed me more though, and maybe I was giving the game more credit than it deserved, but it felt like my individual decisions were supposed to factor more in how the story turned out.

I completely dove into the story and was completely engrossed.

For example, there's a bookshelf in your tower. You can actually organize that bookshelf, and even take back other books you find out in the world and put them on your bookshelf. For some reason, I felt this was a compelling thing to do. I'd go out of my way to go back to my tower to put a book on the bookshelf if I found one. This was a perfect opportunity for a hidden achievement, but the devs missed the boat on that one. I didn't expect a payoff for that, but an acknowledgement would've been nice.

Likewise, the majority of the supply boxes were utterly useless. They contained a map (with no real useful info), a note, and if you're lucky, a pine cone and a book. I'd go out of my way to find them, and once I got to them, you'd realized you wasted your time.

And the camera. I was hoping the game did something more interesting with this mechanic. Instead it was just there and a way to sell you screenshots at the end of the game. The game didn't care what you took pictures of, if you took pictures, or if you took them all right away. It was just there.

I didn't hate the game, just disappointed. I felt led on that I was making meaningful choices in the game, and in the end I wasn't. I felt the same way about The Walking Dead season 1 in this regard. It's disappointing to have choices, and then the overall outcome be the same no matter what you choose.
 
Huh, that's a little strange, it seemed like taking all of them was an awful thing to do, so I assumed D would at least give him a bunch of crap about it.

She did, but it wasn't very harsh and it wasn't for very long either. I actually immediately regretted taking them for that very reason, but yeah. Nothing really came of it.
 

neonille

Member
The backpack is not there earlier in the game. I stumbled on that area, cleared the tress (No axe required) and nothing was there.

Seems Ned left it there for Henry to find.

Except Brian worked on a plan to retrieve the backpack (note in brians lair)
 
For example, there's a bookshelf in your tower. You can actually organize that bookshelf, and even take back other books you find out in the world and put them on your bookshelf. For some reason, I felt this was a compelling thing to do. I'd go out of my way to go back to my tower to put a book on the bookshelf if I found one. This was a perfect opportunity for a hidden achievement, but the devs missed the boat on that one. I didn't expect a payoff for that, but an acknowledgement would've been nice.

Chris Remo mentioned this type of thing in the thread last week complaining about the lack of achievements in the game:

Link

Chris Remo said:
I know people have strong feelings about this, but the reality is we made the trophies the way we did because we didn't want the game to declare what is a "collectible" versus what's just a cool thing to stumble upon in the world, or to encourage players to choose one kind of conversation over another, or to try and explore specific areas rather than others, etc., etc. We really did consider just about every possible avenue, and we ended up on the simplest avenue we could think of, not because we don't care or don't think it's important, but because after laying out all the options, we think it makes the most sense for this particular game. Firewatch is a game with a lot of player choice and hidden stuff, but because of the overall vibe, we didn't want the sensation of trophies/achievements putting meta-commentary on top. And there are a number of conditions you have to satisfy for a platinum, and we just didn't end up with one.
 
This is the first game in a long time where I wish I could completely forget my first play through with it just so that I can experience it all over again fresh.

Chris Remo mentioned this type of thing in the thread last week complaining about the lack of acheivements in the game:

Link

Thanks for this. I agree with Chris. I mean, yeah it would have been cool I guess, but I totally understand where they are coming from.
 

SDCowboy

Member
I asked this in the OT, and it was suggested I bring it here so...

Did anyone else find Delilah suspicious and odd the whole way through? It always felt like she was hiding something. Why did she never want to meet up with Henry during all this? Why, even at the end, did she not want to wait for him nor join him in Boulder? She seemed evasive of him the entire game to me.
 

SDCowboy

Member
Also the way Delilah just left because she did not want to be seen was weird. Like they spoke as if they were into each other or at least interested, but they never ever met even once? Come on. Even if the choices they made at the end stayed the same it felt weird that she was practically 'not there' at all.

Exactly. That is my either by biggest beef or misunderstanding with the story. Why was Delilah so evasive and why did they never meet once over those months? Why did she bail and refuse to wait for him during the evac. Why did she refuse to ever let him see her?

We know she was actually there and not a figment of his imagination because the drawing of him was in there. So why did she never let them meet once?
 
I asked this in the OT, and it was suggested I bring it here so...

Did anyone else find Delilah suspicious and odd the whole way through? It always felt like she was hiding something. Why did she never want to meet up with Henry during all this? Why, even at the end, did she not want to wait for him nor join him in Boulder? She seemed evasive of him the entire game to me.

You are definitely supposed to be a little bit paranoid and suspicious. In the end though I don't think there was anything nefarious. It seems she liked flirting more than acting on anything. I think she was at least strongly considering meeting up until the very end, then gets cold feet, and that's what drives her to take the helicopter without Henry. Things might have been different if they hadn't found Brian though.
 

plc268

Member
Exactly. That is my either by biggest beef or misunderstanding with the story. Why was Delilah so evasive and why did they never meet once over those months? Why did she bail and refuse to wait for him during the evac. Why did she refuse to ever let him see her?

We know she was actually there and not a figment of his imagination because the drawing of him was in there. So why did she never let them meet once?

Probably social anxiety. She obviously took the job for so long because she loved the isolation of the job, and when it came time to actually meet the person, she chickened out. It seems she had some mental issues regarding relationships, so it's not out of character that she would leave before she got a chance to meet henry.
 

Spyware

Member
Did anyone else find Delilah suspicious and odd the whole way through? It always felt like she was hiding something. Why did she never want to meet up with Henry during all this? Why, even at the end, did she not want to wait for him nor join him in Boulder? She seemed evasive of him the entire game to me.
I didn't because she reminded me a bit of me. I met people online and talked to them much more freely than I would have ever done if I met them. I even flirted and that's something I still would never ever do "in real life". One of them was a guy that I could speak to for hours at a time. We saw each other as best friends. We never met. He asked a couple of times but I never wanted to. I didn't want want to change what we had. I'm not the same person "irl" that I am when people can't see me. I don't mean that I play a role or anything, I just feel like a different person.
Not everyone wants to meet, even if they care about each other. I loved that she refused to meet with him.

There's also the fact that she blames herself for Brian's death and she hates Ned and can't think of much else there at the end it seems.
 
Exactly. That is my either by biggest beef or misunderstanding with the story. Why was Delilah so evasive and why did they never meet once over those months? Why did she bail and refuse to wait for him during the evac. Why did she refuse to ever let him see her?

We know she was actually there and not a figment of his imagination because the drawing of him was in there. So why did she never let them meet once?

People have issues, man. It was made very clear to me at the end that those issues are bigger than what the two of them went though that summer. I know what it's like to meet someone face to face after such a long period of time of interaction without seeing each other. It's awkward, let me tell you.

I didn't because she reminded me a bit of me. I met people online and talked to them much more freely than I would have ever done if I met them. I even flirted and that's something I still would never ever do "in real life". One of them was a guy that I could speak to for hours at a time. We saw each other as best friends. We never met. He asked a couple of times but I never wanted to. I didn't want want to change what we had. I'm not the same person "irl" that I am when people can't see me. I don't mean that I play a role or anything, I just feel like a different person.
Not everyone wants to meet, even if they care about each other. I loved that she refused to meet with him.

There's also the fact that she blames herself for Brian's death and she hates Ned and can't think of much else there at the end it seems.

Yes. I can relate to this. I know that feel.
 

ghostjoke

Banned
Just finished. Might look in on someone else playing it through because I want to check back on stuff with full knowledge of story. Kind of feel that it won't stand up under close scrutiny. The misdirection just didn't work for me when the reveal came. I preferred it a hell of a lot more than Gone Home's fake out to get the story going, but it still seemed tacked on. Don't get me wrong, the last thing I wanted was the conspiracy angle, but it feels like there are lose threads everywhere, simply put in for misdirection and won't work in context of the actual story. I still enjoyed it a lot, especially the first half: the atmosphere and mystery were great and I loved the tension between Henry and Delilah - Shining, yes, give me - but I wish it had been expanded on more (maybe it was just my choices?). Far a large part it felt like Delilah was manipulative and using Henry, who was lonely and guilt ridden (again, might be my choices on what I thought suited the character). Expanding more on their relationship and not pushing it aside for the main story would have been great - maybe a few more days of weird happenings or just trekking about and them too interacting. I get why Delilah might be evasive to meeting people without the aid of alcohol, but I wish it could have been expanded upon more. Granted it was a small team and adding in these would have been a major commitment, so I can't chastise it too much.

I don't say all of these because I don't like it, I love most of what is there and just wish it could have been more in-depth, especially in the little touches that were always great.

Might want to tighten up some of those boundaries. I got stuck a few times on boulders that warped in and out of existence and one caused the world is disappear and Henry to fall indefinitely. Exploration in the wilderness can be hazardous :p.

Also, was Julia's face been covered in the photograph there just to screw with me because of how often that is done in games as foreshadowing? It makes sense and all, but I'm now programmed to suspect not having a full picture.
 
I asked this in the OT, and it was suggested I bring it here so...

Did anyone else find Delilah suspicious and odd the whole way through? It always felt like she was hiding something. Why did she never want to meet up with Henry during all this? Why, even at the end, did she not want to wait for him nor join him in Boulder? She seemed evasive of him the entire game to me.

She was drunk talking to you more often than not, and the romantic fantasy she has playing out in her head (or Henry's head if you latch on to her drunken advances) would be ruined if they had ever met. Also like someone else said in this thread the knowledge that she had some involvement in the death of a 12-year old boy tainted everything about the area and she lost any interest in fantasy. This is more apparent if you keep pushing the conspiracy on her after the discovery and on the last day.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Just finished. Might look in on someone else playing it through because I want to check back on stuff with full knowledge of story. Kind of feel that it won't stand up under close scrutiny. The misdirection just didn't work for me when the reveal came. I preferred it a hell of a lot more than Gone Home's fake out to get the story going, but it still seemed tacked on. Don't get me wrong, the last thing I wanted was the conspiracy angle, but it feels like there are lose threads everywhere, simply put in for misdirection and won't work in context of the actual story. I still enjoyed it a lot, especially the first half: the atmosphere and mystery were great and I loved the tension between Henry and Delilah - Shining, yes, give me - but I wish it had been expanded on more (maybe it was just my choices?). Far a large part it felt like Delilah was manipulative and using Henry, who was lonely and guilt ridden (again, might be my choices on what I thought suited the character). Expanding more on their relationship and not pushing it aside for the main story would have been great - maybe a few more days of weird happenings or just trekking about and them too interacting. I get why Delilah might be evasive to meeting people without the aid of alcohol, but I wish it could have been expanded upon more. Granted it was a small team and adding in these would have been a major commitment, so I can't chastise it too much.

I don't say all of these because I don't like it, I love most of what is there and just wish it could have been more in-depth, especially in the little touches that were always great.

Might want to tighten up some of those boundaries. I got stuck a few times on boulders that warped in and out of existence and one caused the world is disappear and Henry to fall indefinitely. Exploration in the wilderness can be hazardous :p.

Also, was Julia's face been covered in the photograph there just to screw with me because of how often that is done in games as foreshadowing? It makes sense and all, but I'm now programmed to suspect not having a full picture.

Yeah I last saved at the base of the climb up to the bunker and then going off the trail slightly got stuck inside an invisible boundary on a boulder in the middle of the path right before reaching the tram. Had to replay that hike, which was aggravating but to the game's credit the only time retracing my steps really felt like a slog. For the most part the game was good about preventing you from going too far out of your way.

The photo thing threw me too, but I think it was just intended as another red herring.

Also, did they ever explain what happened to the Scout camp, and I just missed it? Looked like it'd been abandoned for decades (also begs the question of how the Firefighters got to it when the bridge was out as well.)
 

diaspora

Member
I loved it.

I'm so happy a game like this can exist. Just a story about two people going through difficult times in their lives. Two people immensely lonely despite the fact that they have each other for months.

So lonely that they'll imagine conspiracies where they are none. Conspiracies where they hope, maybe subconsciously, that there's something larger at work going on, just so they can feel like they're important and part of something bigger.


But they're not. And that's why Delilah feels so empty after discovering that it was just Ned all along. And when the girls are found safe and in jail, she can't even be a part of that story either.


And Henry too. He keeps running after every suspicious thing because he wants some sort of human contact. He doesn't care if it puts his life at risk, he just needs...something. Anything. Just so his life can have some sort of importance or meaning.

But he can't ever find anyone. The girls are too far away. His stalker is always just out of reach. His attacker ran away before he could see anything. The person who locked the door behind him got away quickly. The guy in his lookout tower was gone seconds before he got back there. Delilah gets away on a helicopter before he can see her.

He can't even prevent or create fires. He's just powerless. Powerless to help his wife. Powerless in his relationship with Delilah. Powerless in his ability to scare those girls since someone else scared them away for him.

In the end, it's just a story of two lonely people, connected by a simple radio, and even their most convincing conspiracies were built up out of nothing.


It was a beautiful story unlike anything I've ever seen in a game. I'm so happy for Campo Santo and what they created.

This is a pretty strong encapsulation of my thoughts on the game.
 
Also, did they ever explain what happened to the Scout camp, and I just missed it? Looked like it'd been abandoned for decades (also begs the question of how the Firefighters got to it when the bridge was out as well.)

I imagine the firefighters would have come in, and left, by helicopter.
 

Wok

Member
I thought staying silent as best as I could and not answering most of D's calls would resut in different outcomes, but so far, it just looks like I skip dialogues and only miss on the good stuff with no positive outcome. It is bad game design if so.
 

Coonce

Member
I thought staying silent as best as I could and not answering most of D's calls would resut in different outcomes, but so far, it just looks like I skip dialogues and only miss on the good stuff with no positive outcome. It is bad game design if so.


That sucks :(

I was planning on replaying it with different choices, like I wanted to see if it was possible to not mention my wife at all and hook D and H up.
 

diaspora

Member
That sucks :(

I was planning on replaying it with different choices, like I wanted to see if it was possible to not mention my wife at all and hook D and H up.

Delilah was trying to create this 80s equivalent of a facebook/social media relationship through their radio conversations, much like online romances they don't pan out regardless of what you choose to do.
 

ghostjoke

Banned
The photo thing threw me too, but I think it was just intended as another red herring.

Also, did they ever explain what happened to the Scout camp, and I just missed it? Looked like it'd been abandoned for decades (also begs the question of how the Firefighters got to it when the bridge was out as well.)

I appreciated the photo. That felt like a play on my expectations that didn't take away from anything else. Might also have been so the player could fill in the wife to what they personally are attracted to?

I think the scout camp was just to add to the atmosphere and loneliness by reminding you there was once people around having fun - also a nice tidbit to Henry's personality when they're talking about scouts. Firefighters probably came in by air. Neither stuck out to me because the camp made sense for the setting and the firefighters were a continuation of the fire.
 

holygeesus

Banned
For example, there's a bookshelf in your tower. You can actually organize that bookshelf, and even take back other books you find out in the world and put them on your bookshelf. For some reason, I felt this was a compelling thing to do. I'd go out of my way to go back to my tower to put a book on the bookshelf if I found one. This was a perfect opportunity for a hidden achievement, but the devs missed the boat on that one. I didn't expect a payoff for that, but an acknowledgement would've been nice.

You must have derived some enjoyment from carrying out this task, so although you weren't acknowledged for doing it, including it in the game should be enough. I'm not even sure the ending is that important as long as you enjoy the journey.
 

mf.luder

Member
I enjoyed the game even though it was short.

I'm a bit of a sucker for games like this where you use a shitty rope and then get the good rope. Can't clear brush and then you get the axe.

I didn't like the fact that I could only talk on the radio when the game wanted me to. Because half the time she would ask a question and the game would automatically reply but then other times I had the option to answer. This was a little frustrating.

The science monitoring station was weird and didn't do anything story-wise unless I'm missing something.
 
As one that didn't like the ending, a better word would be "revelation", I'm totally ok with not ever seeing D, I think that H and D being in a relationship or an emotional reunion would be the biggest cliche, it can be done well though but avoiding contact it's a safer and good route to take.
 
I loved it.

I'm so happy a game like this can exist. Just a story about two people going through difficult times in their lives. Two people immensely lonely despite the fact that they have each other for months.

So lonely that they'll imagine conspiracies where they are none. Conspiracies where they hope, maybe subconsciously, that there's something larger at work going on, just so they can feel like they're important and part of something bigger.


But they're not. And that's why Delilah feels so empty after discovering that it was just Ned all along. And when the girls are found safe and in jail, she can't even be a part of that story either.


And Henry too. He keeps running after every suspicious thing because he wants some sort of human contact. He doesn't care if it puts his life at risk, he just needs...something. Anything. Just so his life can have some sort of importance or meaning.

But he can't ever find anyone. The girls are too far away. His stalker is always just out of reach. His attacker ran away before he could see anything. The person who locked the door behind him got away quickly. The guy in his lookout tower was gone seconds before he got back there. Delilah gets away on a helicopter before he can see her.

He can't even prevent or create fires. He's just powerless. Powerless to help his wife. Powerless in his relationship with Delilah. Powerless in his ability to scare those girls since someone else scared them away for him.

In the end, it's just a story of two lonely people, connected by a simple radio, and even their most convincing conspiracies were built up out of nothing.


It was a beautiful story unlike anything I've ever seen in a game. I'm so happy for Campo Santo and what they created.

Thanks for this, it expresses my views. I'm sad to see so many people not enjoying this game because it deeply moved me.

Chris Remo mentioned this type of thing in the thread last week complaining about the lack of achievements in the game:

Link

I can appreciate this in a way I wouldn't have when I was younger. Let's all be honest with ourselves, what we personally get from our experiences with games is more important than having the developer patting us on our collective backs for small achievements.

Exactly. That is my either by biggest beef or misunderstanding with the story. Why was Delilah so evasive and why did they never meet once over those months? Why did she bail and refuse to wait for him during the evac. Why did she refuse to ever let him see her?

We know she was actually there and not a figment of his imagination because the drawing of him was in there. So why did she never let them meet once?

That seems more real to me than finally meeting her and expecting some sort of happy ending. Henry's still married to Julia, Delilah still avoids actually interacting with people and neither of them have what we would think of as job skills in 2016. Even though they're both entrusted with responsibilities to the environment, they're avoiding social responsibilities and memories.

Real life isn't like a video game: there's no happy ending. Delilah specifically tells you she's largely avoided human contact for ten years.
 

plc268

Member
You must have derived some enjoyment from carrying out this task, so although you weren't acknowledged for doing it, including it in the game should be enough. I'm not even sure the ending is that important as long as you enjoy the journey.

Maybe, but as a player, I've been programmed to want a reward for accomplishing a task. Not saying it would've been required, but it would've been neat to see a hidden achievement for completing your library (kinda like the HL2 Ep2 gnome achievement). Not to mention, it's kind of a pain in the ass to carry books back, because you have to drop the book every time you need to consult your map.
 

dLMN8R

Member
The one thing I'm not sure about with regard to Delilah is toward the beginning when you overheard a conversation she's having with someone else. It sounded like she was talking about Henry, and I had the option to ask her what that was all about, but I didn't.

What happened there? I didn't want to piss her off by prying.
 
The one thing I'm not sure about with regard to Delilah is toward the beginning when you overheard a conversation she's having with someone else. It sounded like she was talking about Henry, and I had the option to ask her what that was all about, but I didn't.

What happened there? I didn't want to piss her off by prying.

never explained it to me
 
The one thing I'm not sure about with regard to Delilah is toward the beginning when you overheard a conversation she's having with someone else. It sounded like she was talking about Henry, and I had the option to ask her what that was all about, but I didn't.

What happened there? I didn't want to piss her off by prying.

Someone mentioned it earlier in this thread that it was probably a follow-up on her report about the break-in at your tower. Police or the Parks Services asking if there had been any additional information, or if they have any suspects. That kind of thing would be entirely plausible.
 

dofry

That's "Dr." dofry to you.
No matter what everyone thinks of the plot and characters, at least it brings a lot of great discussion on the table. I like to read all the opinions here about it that are well argumented. It's way different from entering e.g. SW Episodes 1-3 threads where there really is nothing to discuss about except mock the movies. Much juicier to read the relationship of Henry and Delilah, the paranoia and the ending here.
 
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