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Former Sony Dev says, PS5 and Xbox Series X Power Difference Is STAGGERING !!!

B0xel-new

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Jan 10, 2020
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The only question that remains is if they did it for personal gain or if they were paid to do it. I remember Osiris' posts regarding much better raytracing on PS5 all too well. And then suddenly it's 44 % better on Xbox.



This is about raytracing, about machine learning, about mesh shaders, about BCPack, about variable rate shading. Put together they can turn a 12 TF machine into a 55 TF machine. How? By using those 12 TF at 1080p and using machine learning upscaling to 4K (equivalent of 48 TF). By adding VRS on top for a 15 % boost in frame rate on average.
Jesus Christ, dude. At this point you’re just throwing words against the wall and hoping for the best. Ray tracing scales with CUs sure, but also with Clocks, so while I see the XSX having a clear advantage, I wouldn’t describe it as staggering(Hey what do I know though, let’s see the games). Mesh shaders is an RDNA feature, also present on PS5 as primitive shaders. BCPack compression is already included in Microsofts 4.8GB/s typical speeds(See digital foundry article). VRS, also an RDNA2 feature which will be present on PS5 more than likely.

Now listen, the XSX is more powerful than PS5. For sure, but let’s not go throwing random words around and magically summoning 55TFs out of thin air and magic. You’ll just look silly.
 

Captain Hero

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Yes yes 1.8 something tf is big difference..

Just let the games talk .. PS5 is powerful or ps5 is weaker that doesn’t matter when games start to come out and
You will see threads like this one and you will see threads making the PS5 too powerful .. at the end no one will give a shit when the console comes out because you will be playing games and enjoying the next gen
 

Drewpee

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All this back n forth about power is stupid. Xbox one X is more powerful than the Pro and how did that end up? As always show the games. You already know what Sony will bring, Microsoft has more pressure on them I feel
Depends on how you look at it. Maybe the PS4 Pro sold more (not sure about it tbh) but the perception has been that the One X craps on the PS4 Pro in every way imaginable.

The Xbox one X showed that Microsoft can be a premium console maker.

The OneX contributed greatly to rehabbing Xbox's image while the PS4 Pro was seen as a half hearted effort by Sony.
 

eastwood333

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Yes yes 1.8 something tf is big difference..

Just let the games talk .. PS5 is powerful or ps5 is weaker that doesn’t matter when games start to come out and
You will see threads like this one and you will see threads making the PS5 too powerful .. at the end no one will give a shit when the console comes out because you will be playing games and enjoying the next gen
It can be more than that depending on the variable clocks
 
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DynamiteCop!

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😂😂😂🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️Once we see tht word "staggering" in reference to a minimal power difference we know what time it is. Like I posted in the other thread I wonder what he thought about ps4 versus Xbox one power difference🤔 maybe the difference was catatonic levels? Atomical levels?

What a moron lol
Minimal power difference? The difference is 1 1/2 to 2 entire PS4 GPU's, not to mention the bandwidth advantage and additional RT hardware...

"Minimal"

 

Gamernyc78

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Depends on how you look at it. Maybe the PS4 Pro sold more (not sure about it tbh) but the perception has been that the One X craps on the PS4 Pro in every way imaginable.

The Xbox one X showed that Microsoft can be a premium console maker.

The OneX contributed greatly to rehabbing Xbox's image while the PS4 Pro was seen as a half hearted effort by Sony.
Not at all, game pass did tht and Microsoft following Sony's blueprint to perfection, investing in more studios, talking about giving devs more freedom, removing Kinect, following God of War and uncharted lead of making those linear games more open. No one has the perception tht the X "craps" all over ps4pro bcus thts bs lol you might as well be cousins with the guy tht used the term "staggering". A little higher resolution in most games and one or two more stable fps or minor fps drops isn't crapping on no one. Not to mention first party Sony games on pro still "crap" visually on first party games on Xbox x.

Xbox x has done nothing to change their perception thy gained tht through forced good will and pro consumer moves because thy were getting "crapped" on by Sony in sales so thy had no choice.
 
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CatLady

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I just stalked his tweet.

Seems like he bashes everything about PS5 even before the specs got official :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Maybe Sony did hurt his feeling when they set apart...
I just checked his timeline going back to Nov. of last year and I couldn't find anything bashing Sony. I did see retweets of positive stuff about Guerilla Games. How far back are these tweets bashing Sony?
 

-kb-

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Jun 17, 2019
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No, it's really about both, because that percentage needs context, and it's a substantial rendering surplus not to mention as specified the additional bandwidth and more RT hardware.
The RT is the same as the CUs, its relative to clocks, so its still 18-20%.
 
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-kb-

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have fun playing checkerboard 4k on ps5, were in 2020 and 4k is standard this is pretty sad Sony cheaped out to sell it for less
I think the bigger shame is that Microsoft cheeped out on the GDDR6 and caused the entire split pool scenario, if only they had ponied up for 20GB of GDDR6 they'd have 590GB/s access to all the memory.
 

CatLady

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Chris Grannell has an App that is partnered to Xbox.... so it might be in his interest, he is also friends.... uhhhhhh .....with Tim..... uhhhhhhh ...... Dog!
Well there is that. I guess everyone has to have at least 1 friend ----- even TimDog :pie_roffles:
 
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Closer

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They used to post on here as well, but were hounded out by the fanboys. Poor John was driven to near suicide off Sony fanboys for not bashing Gears 5 enough in his analasys.
The Fun fact is that quite a few people over here goes to Era all the time. They even screencap stuff to post here so people can go bananas.
 

-kb-

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Uh the Series X has 44% more RT hardware in the die... It has more bandwidth for the GPU, it has a teraflop advantage that could range from 18-30~%.
Yeah it has 44% more RT hardware and the Sony RT hardware runs faster, because its clocked higher. Its the same difference as the TFLOPS because the clocks are relative to the core clock and the intersection engines are relative to the TMUs.
 

eastwood333

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Yeah it has 44% more RT hardware and the Sony RT hardware runs faster, because its clocked higher. Its the same difference as the TFLOPS because the clocks are relative to the core clock and the intersection engines are relative to the TMUs.
Rogame's own words:
One of the drawbacks of using less CUs is less "Intersection Engines" for HW Raytracing which are tied to each shader unit Xbox Series X have 44% more Raytracing HW than PS5. That's why Microsoft is demoing "Real Time Path tracing" while Sony is talking about global illumination
I don't know,but Rogame is reliable with his technical knowledge. It will be interesting if MS ups there clocks more in the near future. According to DF, MS may be underclocking and have room to upclock more
 
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-kb-

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Rogame's own words:
One of the drawbacks of using less CUs is less "Intersection Engines" for HW Raytracing which are tied to each shader unit Xbox Series X have 44% more Raytracing HW than PS5. That's why Microsoft is demoing "Real Time Path tracing" while Sony is talking about global illumination
_rogame is wrong, they may have more intersection engines but they run slower then the PS5's. If you read the patent it'll become obvious that they are most likely relative to the core clocks.
 
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Journey

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Yeah it has 44% more RT hardware and the Sony RT hardware runs faster, because its clocked higher. Its the same difference as the TFLOPS because the clocks are relative to the core clock and the intersection engines are relative to the TMUs.

Oh and let me guess, the bandwidth is also around the same because if you take the fastest area (You know, the ram that will ONLY be used for games) running at 560GB/s bandwidth and divide it with the slower part (You know, the part that games won't touch and just for system stuff) it brings overall memory bandwidth down closer to PS5's comparatively slow 448GB/s AMIRITE? LMFAO :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

DynamiteCop!

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Yeah it has 44% more RT hardware and the Sony RT hardware runs faster, because its clocked higher. Its the same difference as the TFLOPS because the clocks are relative to the core clock and the intersection engines are relative to the TMUs.
This is heavy speculation, while we know how much more RT hardware is in the Series X, we don't know if the cores themselves are unified in terms of frequency. Overclocking the GPU could be completely abstract of RT core performance.
 
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King Harkinian

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Minimal power difference? The difference is 1 1/2 to 2 entire PS4 GPU's, not to mention the bandwidth advantage and additional RT hardware...

"Minimal"

Imagine two rally cars.

The Xbox sponsored one has a sexy chrome paint job, so reflective. The car is driven by Samir and has a co-pilot who is constantly angry-shouting due Samir´s inept, slow cornering speeds and also because Samir is fat af! He refuses to listen to the copilot ´s call!

Samir for some reason added fat racing tires, thinking that with bigger tires he would have more grip, more power on track. He also added a nice sub-woofer with 3D so the people on track can hear the car coming.

The car is faster in a straight line and the car just sounds marvelous, but those fat tires, Samir´s in-capabilities to steer and Samir´s annoying copilot slow the xbox team down. So many team leader have resigned their position. Even Nutella, their main sponsor and Nivea are getting sick of losing every race since this championship started, around 2001.

Sony´s team is faster essentially in every corner, has no annoying co-pilot shouting as the driver "Cerny" knows what he´s doing. At the end, Sony´s team wins every rally stage. The car won´t look nice on pictures due lack of a real shiny chrome paint, but at the end its all about dem titles!

😉
 
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DynamiteCop!

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Imagine two rally cars.

The Xbox sponsored one has a sexy chrome paint job, so reflective. The car is driven by Samir and has a co-pilot who is constantly angry-shouting due Samir´s inept, slow cornering speeds and also because Samir is fat af! He refuses to listen to the copilot ´s call!

Samir for some reason added fat racing tires, thinking that with bigger tires he would have more grip, more power on track. He also added a nice sub-woofer with 3D so the people on track can hear the car coming.

The car is faster in a straight line and the car just sounds marvelous, but those fat tires, Samir´s in-capabilities to steer and Samir´s annoying copilot slow the xbox team down. So many team leader have resigned their position. Even Nutella, their main sponsor and Nivea are getting sick of losing every race since this championship started, around 2001.

Sony´s team is faster essentially in every corner, has no annoying co-pilot shouting as the driver "Cerny" knows what he´s doing. At the end, Sony´s team wins every rally stage. The car won´t look nice on pictures due lack pf a real shiny chrome paint, but at the end its all about dem titles!

😉
 

-kb-

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This is heavy speculation, while we know how much more RT hardware is in the Series X, we don't know if the cores themselves are unified in terms of frequency. Overclocking the GPU could be completely abstract of RT core performance.
The intersection engines are tied to the TMU hardware and TMU caches, they must run in some sort of relative multiple of the core clock for it to make any sense.

Its also speculation that this isn't how it works, when all the available evidence suggests it is.

Oh and let me guess, the bandwidth is also around the same because if you take the fastest area (You know, the ram that will ONLY be used for games) running at 560GB/s bandwidth and divide it with the slower part (You know, the part that games won't touch and just for system stuff) it brings overall memory bandwidth down closer to PS5's comparatively slow 448GB/s AMIRITE? LMFAO :messenger_tears_of_joy:
No, but the fact that your just trolling really shows me you don't understand any of this, but I come to expect a complete misunderstanding of how the hardware works from a lot of people here.

Your probably one of the people who thinks the split memory pool is an optimisation and not Microsoft cheaping out on a extra 4GB of GDDR6 on their 'premium' console.
 
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Hawk269

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Haha, you must be young. This stuff has been going on since since the 80s.
Exactly. When I was young it was the Atari 2600 vs. Intellivision....then it went to the NES vs. Sega Master System then onto the SNES vs. Genesis. This shit has been going on since the beginning of the video game industry....back then it was face to face, on the play ground or when visiting a friends house.

Back then, most could not afford multiple consoles. For example my neighbor had the Intellivision and at my house we had the 2600. We would spend time at each other houses playing each, arguing which one was better and such. It was great and a lot of fun...but not at the same level of fanboyism that there is today.
 

CatLady

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They used to post on here as well, but were hounded out by the fanboys. Poor John was driven to near suicide off Sony fanboys for not bashing Gears 5 enough in his analasys.
D dark10x came back recently and made the stupid mistake of entering the PS5 Safe Space. He got dog-piled by the Sony folks for the egregious sin of DF reporting on the actual PS5 GPU aka the GitHub leak. I'm pretty sure that truly was the last will see John around here, he was treated very badly and he stated he wouldn't be back.

Makes me sad that a small group of people here who get over wrought about their favorite console can run off an industry professional like John, while sniffing fake insider farts. I really liked John & enjoyed his contributions here.
 

DynamiteCop!

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The intersection engines are tied to the TMU hardware and TMU caches, they must run in some sort of relative multiple of the core clock for it to make any sense.

Its also speculation that this isn't how it works, when all the available evidence suggests it is.



No, but the fact that your just trolling really shows me you don't understand any of this, but I come to expect a complete misunderstanding of how the hardware works from a lot of people here.
Well first off there's no evidence of it working one way or the other, not from AMD's front. Also it seems to make less sense that they would be unified as overclocking could bring about extra limitations or instability in the RT cores much like a CPU with hyperthreading enabled will become more unstable than without it.
 
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-kb-

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Well first off there's no evidence of it working one way or the other, not from AMD's front. Also it seems to make less sense that they would be unified as overclocking could bring about extra limitations or instability in the RT cores much like a CPU with hyperthreading enabled will become more unstable than without it.
Read the patent, its literally the best information we have, they are tied to the TMUs and the TMU caches all which change with clocks.
 
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Stuart360

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D dark10x came back recently and made the stupid mistake of entering the PS5 Safe Space. He got dog-piled by the Sony folks for the egregious sin of DF reporting on the actual PS5 GPU aka the GitHub leak. I'm pretty sure that truly was the last will see John around here, he was treated very badly and he stated he wouldn't be back.

Makes me sad that a small group of people here who get over wrought about their favorite console can run off an industry professional like John, while sniffing fake insider farts. I really liked John & enjoyed his contributions here.
Imagine hounding out real industry tech veterans, and all round respected experts, off a videogame forum trying to regain its former glory. I wonder how many of them were banned, actually i can guess already.
 

it_wasn't_me

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Well, numbers are telling otherwise and gen was never been closer in terms of power. I mean WTF?

Or maybe he DELIBERATELY said that to TimDog so he can go do some

 
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Journey

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The intersection engines are tied to the TMU hardware and TMU caches, they must run in some sort of relative multiple of the core clock for it to make any sense.

Its also speculation that this isn't how it works, when all the available evidence suggests it is.



No, but the fact that your just trolling really shows me you don't understand any of this, but I come to expect a complete misunderstanding of how the hardware works from a lot of people here.

Your probably one of the people who thinks the split memory pool is an optimisation and not Microsoft cheaping out on a extra 4GB of GDDR6 on their 'premium' console.

Ok, so you consider that "Cheaping out", fine. Some people also see Sony's use of 36 CU and clocking the GPU at 2.23 their form of cheaping out. You see, insulting the other side does nothing to prove a point, it just makes you look desperate and not having an answer to all that bandwidth difference. 560GB/s vs 448GB/s is nothing to sneeze at and one of the MAJOR differentiators according to NXGamer himself, the man that's always defending the PS5.
 
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D dark10x came back recently and made the stupid mistake of entering the PS5 Safe Space. He got dog-piled by the Sony folks for the egregious sin of DF reporting on the actual PS5 GPU aka the GitHub leak. I'm pretty sure that truly was the last will see John around here, he was treated very badly and he stated he wouldn't be back.

Makes me sad that a small group of people here who get over wrought about their favorite console can run off an industry professional like John, while sniffing fake insider farts. I really liked John & enjoyed his contributions here.
Surely you must know Andrew Reiner was abused into submission and vowed never partake in any insider talk again after his tweet around E3 last year that put the PS5 at 13TF and the Xbox Series X below that.
This toxic fanboy shit comes from both sides of the fence.
 
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