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Forza Motorsport will ban players for using Confederate flag

Puskas

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Sep 14, 2018
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I don’t mind or care about banning of genuinely racist symbols and flags but you have to ask yourself how sincere this really is.

I haven’t seen MS/Turn 10 bother adressing it until now, all of a sudden.

I’d bet that if it wasn’t for the support for BLM due to recent events, this ban would’ve never happened. Just another corporate virtue signalling.

:messenger_sleeping:
 
Aug 28, 2019
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I admit I had made assumptions about your race... you thicc lady lovin' man.

Glad to hear that the conferate flag owner didn't dismember you though, I'm just glad you actually went in his house and didn't run away screaming lol I'd be saying that if you just told us you were white as well because so many people have some crazy intolerances going on these days, ultimately its just a flag so you should actually engage with the owner to see what their views are before branding them a <insert negative connotattion>.
I mean, they had a dog so it wouldn't of been too hard. Bit of a forest area at the side of the house, too, that'd be a good spot to hide a body or two I reckon...granted I could've taken off to the freeway on the other side if I felt like it :LOL:

People these days are getting upset over old symbolism but don't want to take use of context into account. Might also just be lucky I got my education before the complete fall of the education system (especially in college systems).
 

bender

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Yea, shocking that people would want to drive around the General Lee in an open world racing game.
I guess it depends how important that role play is to you. As an avid viewer of Dukes of Hazard as a child and as a proud southerner, I just can't look past what that symbol represents. Allowing it or Disallowing is a slippery slope either way.
 
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Son_of_Zardoz

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May 15, 2017
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1. How can a flag be a racist?
2. You do realize black people in the south owned slaves too, right?
3. You do realize not every person living in the south was a slave owner, right?

Yeah, didn't think so.
1. It represents a government that was literally founded on racism so how is it not a symbol of racism?
2. Yet the vastly overwhelming majority were white people who owned slaves
3. Again, even if they didn't own slaves they fought to continue the practice of slavery. Because no matter what way you slice it, that's why the south succeeded. Their main economic engine was cotton, which by the way propelled the US to a world power in a relatively short amount of time, and they depended on slaves to produce that crop in the south


A video game banning the flag isn't somehow going to make it magically disappear from stores or private property. I have no problem with them banning it as long as they give fair warning to those who are already using it because the game is their product. This isn't a freedom of speech issue.
 
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eastwood333

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Nov 3, 2019
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Guessing people complained to Turn 10 and Turn 10 felt they better do something or MS/Turn 10 will get an onslaught of attacks from the industry.media/BLM etc.

It's a shame really. When I see that flag on top of the car, i'm not even thinking about race or anything. I miss The Dukes of Hazard as well.

Not really mad at MS/Turn 10 here. They pretty much have no choice or get a ton of bad publicity.
 
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OutRun88

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No, you are claiming people are ignorant while somehow stating: "In between that time, as well as the time between major white supremacist groups falling and now, the flag represented southern pride, heritage, and states rights for many" which is the very definition of ignorance. Ignoring what the flag actually stands for and trying to attach some other, supposedly less terrible, meaning is willful ignorance at best.

Do you make the same excuses for people who today want to wear the nazi flag because they think it looks cool, or to them it somehow represents German herritage with no link to WWII or the Holocaust? Because that's the sort of thing you are stating is fine.

Apparently the fact that the confederacy took up arms against the United States (you know, actual traitors) and was built primarily to continue slavery BY THE WORDS OF THEIR FOUNDERS is not relevant because some people choose to ignore it. Congrats I guess?
Again, you have proven you don't have the ability to comprehend the words I have typed: "...please understand that a flag can represent many things and not be entirely inclusive of said things, especially the Confederate battle flag. "

Early drafts of the Declaration of Independence had language against slavery, but was revised to remove that language before publicizing it. Should we ban the American flag, since its origin is in that of slavery? Is hanging the American flag high not showing this oh so same "willful ignorance" you are spouting on about with the Confederate battle flag.

Let me address your comment of "you know, actual traitors". You do realize that 11 states ultimately considered legal actions of the north unconstitutional, since property was protected by the constitution, and slaves were considered property at that time. It's also worthwhile to note that nobody was tried for treason after the war.

I never once discredited the relevancy of the flags roots in slavery. As a matter of fact I addressed that quite clearly. But again, you fail to comprehend the notion that "a flag can represent many things and not be entirely inclusive of said things"

I like how you phrase it "do you make the same excuse". This is strong language to make it look like you are attacking me from the correct side. However, nothing I wrote was an excuse. You incorrectly interpreted it as an excuse based on your concrete viewpoint.

As for the Nazi flag, the only thing the Nazi flag and the Confederate flag have in common is that they are flags. Flags need to be looked independently of one another. Their history is entirely unique. How they change and what they represent (or what people believe they represent) is unique. I know of not a single writing that indicates people fly the Nazi flag as a symbol of heritage. The German country is well ashamed of their history, so much so that they still only lightly show pride in their countries flag. To me, it is peoples of Germany that decide how the Nazi flag can be represented, not mine.
 
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Woo-Fu

incest on the subway
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Racists don't know what virtue signalling even means. This is implementing new policies to correct an omission. "Bu-bu-buh ma hairtij!" Cry me a river. Racists have taken more Ls in 2020 than the Confederacy did in is entire, sad and pitiful existence.
I'm sure the 5 racists left in America are devastated.

Yes but the meaning of the flag has evolved over time.
Symbology is subjective.
 
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LeVictorien

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Would you feel the same if people were using the nazi flag? If not, do you think it's because people educated everyone about what the nazi have done and why keeping flags can say a lot about the ideas it perpetuates? To me either you understand the outrage and accept that in wanting to make the world a better place we should let go past mentalities or you want the mentality ingrained in this flag to remain which says a lot about you and your values.
 

48086

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1. It represents a government that was literally founded on racism so how is it not a symbol of racism?
2. Yet the vastly overwhelming majority were white people who owned slaves
3. Again, even if they didn't own slaves they fought to continue the practice of slavery. Because no matter what way you slice it, that's why the south succeeded. Their main economic engine was cotton, which by the way propelled the US to a world power in a relatively short amount of time, and they depended on slaves to produce that crop in the south


A video game banning the flag isn't somehow going to make it magically disappear from stores or private property. I have no problem with them banning it as long as they give fair warning to those who are already using it because the game is their product. This isn't a freedom of speech issue.
Lol, I don't take you seriously at all after your first point. In saying that, you show your vast amount of ignorance with your response to point number 3.

You're right, it's not a freedom of speech issue. It's a unauthentic gesture that is only happening because MS/Turn 10 doesn't want the psycho leftist twitter mob and retardera to start a hate campaign against them. The Civil War was primarily fought between white people and the confederate flag is now banned. Other flags of violent oppressive regimes and governments are just fine though. This move is nothing but hypocrisy and virtue signaling and when people call out MS for this bullshit people like yourself come back with "y-y-you're just r-racist."

Give me a break.
 

Son_of_Zardoz

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Yes but the meaning of the flag has evolved over time. Flag in its current form was never used as state flag of CSA.
You're right as in it wasn't actually a flag in common use by the csa. This particular version was popularized by the dixiecrats and kkk so you are making your argument even worse.

Again, you have proven you don't have the ability to comprehend the words I have typed: "...please understand that a flag can represent many things and not be entirely inclusive of said things, especially the Confederate battle flag. "

Early drafts of the Declaration of Independence had language against slavery, but was revised to remove that language before publicizing it. Should we ban the American flag, since its origin is in that of slavery? Is hanging the American flag high not showing this oh so same "willful ignorance" you are spouting on about with the Confederate battle flag.

Let me address your comment of "you know, actual traitors". You do realize that 11 states ultimately considered legal actions of the north unconstitutional, since property was protected by the constitution, and slaves were considered property at that time. It's also worthwhile to note that nobody was tried for treason after the war.

I never once discredited the relevancy of the flags roots in slavery. As a matter of fact I addressed that quite clearly. But again, you fail to comprehend the notion that "a flag can represent many things and not be entirely inclusive of said things"

I like how you phrase it "do you make the same excuse". This is strong language to make it look like you are attacking me from the correct side. However, nothing I wrote was an excuse. You incorrectly interpreted it as an excuse based on your concrete viewpoint.

As for the Nazi flag, the only thing the Nazi flag and the Confederate flag have in common is that they are flags. Flags need to be looked independently of one another. Their history is entirely unique. How they change and what they represent (or what people believe they represent) is unique. I know of not a single writing that indicates people fly the Nazi flag as a symbol of heritage. The German country is well ashamed of their history, so much so that they still only lightly show pride in their countries flag. To me, it is peoples of Germany that decide how the Nazi flag can be represented, not mine.
You are saying that removing language from the Declaration of Independence against slavery (which should have been kept, yet that document still declares that "all men are created equal") should be treated with the same contempt as a government who's founders said that "the negro's natural state is slavery in service to the white race?" That is solid logic.

So talking about people as property and you have no argument with that being an accepted practice? Looks to be the case if thats the argument you are making. Okay. And again, nobody was tried for treason after the war because they were worried that the butthurt people who thought it was okay to enslave an entire race might never forgive them if they did. Honestly they should have.

Once again, this flag wasn't even in common use (stretched version) during that time and was made popular by the dixiecrats and kkk. But tell me how they only thought it represented southern life without a hint of slavery.
 
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Yoboman

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For those of you who have sadly yet to break themselves from a concrete mindset, please understand that a flag can represent many things and not be entirely inclusive of said things, especially the Confederate battle flag.

Its roots lie more in slavery than it does racism, as the Confederacy formed and fought to keep an economic industry built around slavery.

Nearly a century later is when it found its home as a symbol of racism when it was adopted by white supremacist groups.

In between that time, as well as the time between major white supremacist groups falling and now, the flag represented southern pride, heritage, and states rights for many.

Again, I just ask that you understand this flag has a particularly complex history and isn't implicitly racist.
A swastika also has a complex history not necessarily tied to Nazis. Doesnt make it cool to go waving a swastika around
 

Jon Neu

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I said there's racism everywhere? Have a lot of colored straw to build your straw men out of? I don't even know what the second point is that you're trying to make.
I mean, you literally said: Racists have taken more Ls in 2020 than the Confederacy did in is entire, sad and pitiful existence.

Seems you are pretty interested and invested in racists and you have even counted all those so many times they got an L.

And I just point out the irony of the people like you who always and ever is going to claim that everything is racist while at the same time claiming that racists are losing, when in reality they all live rent free in your heads to the point of even invent them when they don’t exist.

It’s deliciously schizophrenic.
 

kittoo

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Its virtue signaling for sure but won't any patriotic American not like the Confederate flag? Its symbol of people who almost broke the country in two, and wanted slavery. I don't support the current BLM and withchunts and general plain idiots that the current left is, but we all do agree that slavery was wrong?
I hate leftists with a vengeance. They are Nazis of our era with nothing productive to give to society and are useless deadweight to human progress. They pander to Islamists and have no sense of nuance. I could go on and on about these idiots, but I don't support slavery and civil war and I thought we all agreed on that? Then why care about this symbol?
I am not American so maybe I am missing something. On one hand US south seems conservative, patriotic and logical. And on the other hand they apparently like the flag that represents breaking their country? It's a paradox. Am I missing something?
Edit:Outrun88's posts shed some light on it. Good read. I still hope they find some other symbol for southern pride etc. Its a very divisive symbol.
 
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kittoo

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A swastika also has a complex history not necessarily tied to Nazis. Doesnt make it cool to go waving a swastika around
As a Hindu, I hate the Nazis for using swastika as their symbol. I mean i hate them for many other things too but that's an important one for me.
Though I will still use it if I am in the US, more as a chance to educate people about its actual meaning and usage.
 

Senua

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Apr 30, 2007
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Though I will still use it if I am in the US, more as a chance to educate people about its actual meaning and usage.
Only to be jumped by a load of "anti facists" before you even finish your sentence lol
 

Sacred

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Reading the responses in here, yes, they are crushed. If you wait for wholesale change, you'll wait forever. Incremental change is better than no change. You might understand that if you spent decades experiencing the other side, after coming from a country where you were once the majority and never experienced racism growing up. You can make more sarcastic quips about it, but makes no difference to me. This isn't about you.


Not really. Not sure anyone even implied that. I watched the Dukes of Hazard growing up, and quite enjoyed the show and the General Lee. I also didn't know anything about the symbols, as I wasn't even living in America. I lived in a country where everyone looked like me. Now that I understand the history of the symbol, and spend most of my life in the racist-ass American south, I have a much different opinion of the show. You wouldn't think the symbol means enough for people to be offended, but then look at you. You're clearly a product of the loser's flag being bandied about as a benign symbol, when it's not. That's why policy changes like this matter. We don't care if current racists continue down their paths of ignorance. It's about fomenting change, so that future generations can eventually live in a world rid of dimwits.

If you never start, you'll never finish. This is a start. I wish it was more, but we take what we can get.
You are far too blinded by your own hatred for an invisible enemy that there is no point to interact with you.

This people is what decades of fear mongering and social justice look like.
 

Cybrwzrd

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To be honest, the more people are triggered by this flag, the more necessary it is for people to fly it. Because ultimately, it is a flag of rebellion, and not of anything else.
 

48086

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You are far too blinded by your own hatred for an invisible enemy that there is no point to interact with you.

This people is what decades of fear mongering and social justice look like.
I wonder if they know the term racism has lost all meaning? The current media and leftist narrative is that all US history and culture of white people was and is racist. If you're white you're automatically racist.

Congrats morons, you've successfully removed all meaning from the term and you've done a great disservice to black Americans. Not that you cared about them in the first place.
 

Pantz

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B-b-but Miss Daisy!

Aw dangit! Thought this had pretty cool art. I honestly don't know much about the flag other than the General Lee. Well it's gone now...
Replaced with this General Grant.

Is this safe?

Also how long before this gets banned? It's just for fun.
 

Thaedolus

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I haven't played Forza ever. But... is there a democrat logo available in the game? If not, what point does your comment try to make?
Well, you see, 170 years ago the progressive party was Republican and the idiots were Democrats, so naturally this is 100% relevant now when deciding who’s right and wrong.
 
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Senua

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Well, you see, 170 years ago the progressive party was Republican and the idiots were Democrats, so naturally this is 100% relevant now when deciding who’s right and wrong.
That's not now? :messenger_poop:
 

Sacred

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I wonder if they know the term racism has lost all meaning? The current media and leftist narrative is that all US history and culture of white people was and is racist. If you're white you're automatically racist.

Congrats morons, you've successfully removed all meaning from the term and you've done a great disservice to black Americans. Not that you cared about them in the first place.
It's become normalized to be called racist for anything you say or do that is different from the mob mentality of social justice and cancel culture. It's marxism on several different stages hiding under banners that we can't speak up against.

Take Black Lives Matter for instance, it is the perfect name for Marxists to invent and you have to give them credit because you agree with the message but you can't speak against the movement. They have successfully received support from practically every American and every corporation, most not knowing that it's leaders and allies are communist-socialists that want to, direct quote, "Tear it all down and replace it."
 

DrJohnGalt

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The reason people like me are bothered by this isn't because of the flag (racist or not), it's because woke brands have decided that they need to get rid of anything and everything that may be offensive. Or even stuff they simply don't agree with. It's not a free speech issue but it is censorship nonetheless.
I've seen a lot of morons posting in this thread and while I disagree with them, I still think they should be able to say what they want. I guess that's the difference between people like me; if it's not hurting anyone I say let it be. Wouldn't it be more productive to leave these flags and statues and cringe TV episodes to teach future generations about the past and how much has changed (contrary to what the idiots on the left will tell you). But the progressives want to control what people say, what people see, and what people think. Next thing to be go will be the National Anthem, followed by Mt Rushmore. Because RACISM.
 
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00_Zer0

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Man this thread is a slaughterhouse :messenger_grinning_sweat:
But I like that we can freely bash each other with words and without the fear of getting banned :messenger_smiling_hearts:
Yes, it's nice here. I got so tired of the one-sided toxicity by the Era site that I asked to be self banned, and never looked back since.

I am glad for back and forth freedom of speech on this forum. If you take out one side of the conversation or refuse civil, thoughtful debate it becomes an echo chamber of like minded fools patting themselves on the back telling each other how right and moral they are.
 
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Yes, it's nice here. I got so tired of the one-sided toxicity by the Era site that I asked to be self banned, and never looked back since.

I am glad for back and forth freedom of speech on this forum. If you take out one side of the conversation or refuse civil, thoughtful debate it becomes an echo chamber of like minded fools patting themselves on the back telling each other how right and moral they are.
You might be the only person ever who had to ASK to be banned from that shithole.
 

Halo is Dead

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Whats a confederate flag?
A flag that was used to represent the states that wanted to succeed from the United States. It was comprised of mostly southern states that wanted autonomy from the U.S. The Union fought them in a Civil War to restore order and unity of America.

AKA they were traitors to America that wanted their own set of rules. It is used by rednecks to show "southern pride" and is associated with racism because the the Confederacy wanted to keep slaves among other things.
 
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Mista

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A flag that was used to represent the states that wanted to succeed from the United States. It was comprised of most souther states that wanted autonomy form the U.S. The Union fought them in a Civil War to restore order and unity of America.

AKA they were traitors to America that wanted their own set of rules. It is used to by rednecks to show "southern pride" and is associated with racism because the the Confederacy wanted to keep slaves among other things.
Thats fucked up. Thanks for explaining
 
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Musky_Cheese

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Whats a confederate flag?
When the south left the north (USA) and form the confederate states of America, they had a flag.

People trying to ban it. It’s the lazy activism. We did something that really involves doing nothing and has no real value.

Now I don’t care that they do it. I just hate the championing of doing something that isn’t significant at all. If their stance wasn’t made public, we’d never know about it.
 
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AllBizness

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Ridiculous the United States didn't ban this flag after the Civil War. Ridiculous there's more statues of the general that lost "Lee" then the genreal who won "Grant"
 

TheSpecialOne

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Good! Its a flag that represents losers and flying it should be treasonous. The winner of the war gets to write history.
 

Dick Jones

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Didn't the Johnny Knoxville version of Dukes of Hazzard acknowledge it is offensive about 15 years ago in the movie itself? Microsoft need not to have distractions in the run up to next gen so I believe they made the right choice. If NASCAR of all groups are cracking down then yeah it's over everywhere. People need to accept it and move on.

If you pulled your lad to either of the Daisy Dukes you are a racist. No exceptions.

Also Enus? The fuck name is that.

If we are anti them Duke boys are we supporting the police? I've consulted my woke dictionary and it is confusing.
 

Musky_Cheese

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Good! Its a flag that represents losers and flying it should be treasonous. The winner of the war gets to write history.
They did. That’s why kids in school are taught that the civil war was fought over slavery in the first place.