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Game Informer August 2012 - next Gears of War

-PXG-

Member
So we have both been playing Gears with friends for 6 years now.. I am familiar with the game, I own the LE's, I have read the books, I have watched every interview Cliffy B has ever done. I have been playing Epic Games since Unreal 1 on PC, and have played every one of them since. This really shouldn't be about "which is the bigger fan".

And you say that these features are a novelty without having used them yourself.

Kinect integration in Skyrim cuts SECONDS off of each and every item use, map traversal, spell etc you want to use. When you play a game for hundreds of ours, that adds up. It speeds up gameplay a considerable amount, and had absolutely ZERO effect on game development.

I am not saying Gears, Mass Effect 3, or Skyrim should be played with just Kinect, that is just silly. I am saying they are augmented with Kinect, for which there is no denying. They are objectively improved with the integration. That is not an opinion, it is fact.


Now if Epic decided to add a few voice commands to Gears, how on Earth would that effect you or anyone else that does not have/want a Kinect.

The answer is very simple, it would not.

But for the 19 million people that own a Kinect, it would improve the experience.

This is a very simple concept. Does the fact that they took the time to add captions to the game upset you? Or odd control schemes that a miniscule amount of Gears players actually use? No? Then why does Kinect integration freak you out so much? Because you're "Hardcore" and "Kinect is Teh Cazuaalll"? Get over it.

So a $150 peripheral is worth having so you can utilize alternative methods to control a game? It's worth it because when you add those fractions of seconds you saved, together, you end up saving more time than you really thought? Come on. You're reaching.

Fine, voice commands and such might be alright for Gears. Still I think it's kind of a waste. Full Kinect controls would be terrible. I think we can both agree on that.

The intrinsic nature and vibe of Kinect just doesn't fit Gears. Yeah, it sort of is a casual vs hardcore thing. I was trying to avoid that, or at the very least, make it less juvenile. Kinect is fine for games that aren't meant to be taken seriously or for games where precise input isn't required. Gears, at least to me, is the complete opposite of a game that would benefit or even be Kinect compatible. Then again, we have games like Mass Effect and Ghost Recon that have it. But do you really think they're better or rather, those games would be worse with it? That's a rhetorical question. I already know your answer.

I think you're underestimating the amount of time and work it takes to implement and test (emphasis on the latter) such a feature. I'd rather have a dev perfect standard features than to add a bunch of interesting, yet faulty and buggy ones. And let's be honest, there isn't enough time or money to make everything good. Sacrifices have to be made and corners have to be cut. Surely there are bigger things to worry about than a few, tiny Kinect features. Still, at the end of the day, it's still something that doesn't really cater to the competitive fan base (of course, many exist, outside the confines of the "core" audience) and something that could, very likely take away from other features that could have been polished.
 
Anyway, the Kinect features in Mass Effect, Forza and Skyrim are mere novelties at best. They're silly and fun but nothing really to write home about. I'd probably fuck around with it for a 30 minutes, maybe longer if I was drunk or with my girlfriend.
That really isn't true. I played through the full Mass Effect 3 campaign with voice control and when I finally open Skyrim I'll do the same with that too. Genuinely streamlining input to speed up gameplay isn't a novelty, it is 100% a benefit no matter what way you look at it. It isn't a benefit that you might want; some people are uncomfortable talking to their TV, live in a noisy environment or simply don't want to use it. But for those that do, it works and it works well. Not that I'm saying it has a place in Gears at all, but as an optional extra as it is in those games who cares?

I think you're underestimating the amount of time and work it takes to implement and test (emphasis on the latter) such a feature. I'd rather have a dev perfect standard features than to add a bunch of interesting, yet faulty and buggy ones. And let's be honest, there isn't enough time or money to make everything good. Sacrifices have to be made and corners have to be cut. Surely there are bigger things to worry about than small Kinect intergration.

I think you're overestimating the amount of work it takes. If we're talking voice control, at least. Kinect comes with all of the software for developers. They don't have to sit figuring out how Kinect will understand your voice and work out the bugs. Microsoft have already done that. Mapping an action to any word is as easy as mapping it to a controller button. The Skyrim stuff was, if memory serves me correctly, done by one guy in a week. I'm sure it was fleshed out and tested by a small team prior to release but in the grand scheme of development that kind of optional implementation really doesn't add that much man power, time or money. But this is really a conversation for another thread.
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
So a $150 peripheral is worth having so you can utilize alternative methods to control a game? Ot's worth it because when you add those fractions of seconds you saved, together, you end up saving more time than you really thought? Come on. You're reaching.

The intrinsic nature of Kinect just doesn't fit Gears. Yeah, it sort of is a casual vs hardcore thing. I was trying to avoid that, or at the very least, make it less juvenile. Kinect is fine for games that aren't meant to be taken seriously or for games where precise input isn't required. Gears, at least to me, is the complete opposite of a game that would benefit or even be Kinect compatible. Then again, we have games like Mass Effect and Ghost Recon that have it. But do you really think they're better or rather, those games would be worse with it? That's a rhetorical question. I already know your answer.

I think you're underestimating the amount of time and work it takes to implement and test (emphasis on the latter) such a feature. I'd rather have a dev perfect standard features than to add a bunch of interesting, yet faulty and buggy ones. And let's be honest, there isn't enough time or money to make everything good. Sacrifices have to be made and corners have to be cut. Surely there are bigger things to worry about than small Kinect intergration. Still, at the end of the day, it's still something that doesn't really cater to the competitive fan base (of course, many exist, outside the confines of the "core" audience) and something that could, very likely take away from other features that could have been polished.

Yes. the $150.00 peripheral was worth it, for improved gameplay and amazing UI navigation of the Dashboard.

I love being able to search for a movie or show using voice and be watching it seconds and sometimes minutes faster than I would have to with a controller(even using the Gamepad keyboard I also own).

Playing Skyrim and being able to enjoy combat without having to use the "quick" menu 15 times in any given battle is a HUGE difference. As is being able to command your follower, and use the map without navigating menus. Etc etc.

Does that mean I would want to map every action the the Kinect and not use the controller at all? No. That is not what I bought the Kinect for. I bought the Kinect to augment my hardcore games. I want head-tracking in my racing games, I want voice commands in games that it can improve the flow of combat. etc.

When I am playing ME3, it helps a ton to be able to tell Garrus to take cover in a certain spot, then focus fire on a certain enemy, the use a power like overload, all without having to pause the game and use the power wheel. That makes combat more immersive, and more efficient. Again, there is no way around this, it is OBJECTIVELY better. It is OBJECTIVELY faster.

When I am playing Forza 4 it is much better to tilt my head turning corners than to move my fingers around, taking them out of place on the controller to free look. It makes me able to compete better, in the same way that "bumper jumper" in Halo allows players to Aim and Jump at the same time. It frees up and augments my ability to use the standard controller. Multi tasking in a way that is not possible with just the gamepad.

And no, as it was said, Kinect is designed to be able to be easily integrated into any 360 game. Microsoft has done all the brunt work, and the Kinect itself takes the strain off the hardware. Adding Kinect support would have no noticeable effect on game development by any competent dev studio.


Again, it is an optional feature that would enhance and make gameplay more efficient for MILLIONS of players, yet you don't want it because you have some stigmatized view that Kinect is ruining your hardcore titles. It is not, it is improving them.

Now if Gears 4 comes out and is a Kinect ONLY title, I will hop right on your little bandwagon, but for now and in the foreseeable future, that is not going to happen. So why not let players who can and want optional features have them?
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Kinect isn't an improvement over a controller. lol

Not alone. But when used in conjunction it is objectively better. Mathematically more efficient. And allows the player to multitask, therefore freeing up the players ability to use the controller.


As I said, if I can maintain my hands on the controller concentrating on combat, while issuing commands with my voice that would otherwise have me moving my fingers away from combat oriented controls, then that is a huge improvement. Again, see bumper jumper in Halo for same concept sans Kinect.


Ever heard of synergy?
 
Not alone. But when used in conjunction it is objectively better. Mathematically more efficient. And allows the player to multitask, therefore freeing up the players ability to use the controller.


As I said, if I can maintain my hands on the controller concentrating on combat, while issuing commands with my voice that would otherwise have me moving my fingers away from combat oriented controls, then that is a huge improvement. Again, see bumper jumper in Halo for same concept sans Kinect.


Ever heard of synergy?
If it can be done with a controller then Kinect is a waste of $150. Don't use voice commands as a reason it's worth it because you could just use the headset that comes with every Xbox.
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
If it can be done with a controller then Kinect is a waste of $150. Don't use voice commands as a reason it's worth it because you could just use the headset that comes with every Xbox.

Bumper jumper is an example of the concept of something being easier to multi task, not something that should or would use Kinect. Reread and try to interpret what I said correctly...


Also Kinect allows devs the extra horsepower for improving the actual game. That way it does not take away from the game as PGX is so concerned with.

Not only that but voice recognition is tricky to begin with, let alone when you have a ton of different quality 3rd party mics that could have differing results with voice recog.


Having Kinect as the standard is a great way to ensure consistency and quality.


Hating on something just because you think its cool is really not the best standpoint to have.
 

TheOddOne

Member
So, to sum up the thread:
  • Whoa, did not see that coming. Surprise ruined, why did Microsoft even allow this?
  • Too soon and should be next gen. When will they release it? Duel release?
  • Burned out on Gears, more dudebro coming and [insert mildly snarky remark].
  • Will this now come out on other platforms?
  • Cliff is eating popcorn, popcorn gifs come out.
  • Conner bakes up a ridiculous argument and goes off the rail about MGS Vancouver making this. Everybody agrees that People Can Fly is making this.
  • Kinect should be featured in this game, because of Kinect. Others say Kinect is a shame that should not be brought to Gears.
 

-PXG-

Member
Bumper jumper is an example of the concept of something being easier to multi task, not something that should or would use Kinect. Reread and try to interpret what I said correctly...


Also Kinect allows devs the extra horsepower for improving the actual game. That way it does not take away from the game as PGX is so concerned with.

Not only that but voice recognition is tricky to begin with, let alone when you have a ton of different quality 3rd party mics that could have differing results with voice recog.


Having Kinect as the standard is a great way to ensure consistency and quality.


Hating on something just because you think its cool is really not the best standpoint to have.

I expect dyslexia from the collective drunks of the NYC GAF meetups...come on son.
That's a joke btw. They always mess up my name though

Kinect, quality and consistent...all in the same sentence. Jesus Christ.

I'm not hating it on because it's cool or because I wanna be on some bandwagon, or for the sake of it. In all seriousness, I think it's a piece of shit. Period. I really can't be any clearer.

Anyway, there is nothing left for me to say, besides I hope Epic/ PCF don't fuck things up.
 

-PXG-

Member
So, to sum up the thread:
  • Whoa, did not see that coming. Surprise ruined, why did Microsoft even allow do this?
  • Too soon and should be next gen. When will they release it? Duel release?
  • Burned out on Gears, more dudebro coming and [insert mildly snarky remark].
  • Will this come now come out on other platforms?
  • Cliff is eating popcorn, popcorn gifs come out.
  • Conner bakes up a ridiculous argument and goes off the rail about MGS Vancouver making this. Everybody agrees that People Can Fly is making this.
  • Kinect should be featured in this game, because of Kinect. Others say Kinect is a shame that should not be brought to Gears.

dcFAQ.gif
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
I get your points, don't agree with 'em but this made me laugh.


Haha yeah, so Kinects performance isn't ALWAYS consistent, point being it is more consistent than a scenario where every dev has to figure out how to implement mic voice commands and account for 3rd party mics of varying quality.

In the same way that it is easier to optimize a game for a closed platform like the 360, and solve any bugs that will pop up, than it is for PC where you have to take into account thousands/millions of different build possibilities, driver configurations etc.. (this is coming from someone who is primarily a PC gamer)
 

rouken

Member
i don't think this one will have kinect. that version of GOW was scrapped right? Epic ain't that stupid to add kinect features that won't work most of the time to their beloved franchise.

but i will not be surprised if this comes out as an FPS
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
I expect dyslexia from the collective drunks of the NYC GAF meetups...come on son.
That's a joke btw. They always mess up my name though

Kinect, quality and consistent...all in the same sentence. Jesus Christ.

I'm not hating it on because it's cool or because I wanna be on some bandwagon, or for the sake of it. In all seriousness, I think it's a piece of shit. Period. I really can't be any clearer.

Anyway, there is nothing left for me to say, besides I hope Epic/ PCF don't fuck things up.

Fair enough, sorry for messing up your name by the way..

I will just leave it at this, if you were to play a theoretical verses mode against a Kinect+Controller user in either Mass Effect or Skyrim, with only a controller, you would lose, I would lose, anyone would lose.


More efficient is more efficient. Period.
 
So, to sum up the thread:
  • Whoa, did not see that coming. Surprise ruined, why did Microsoft even allow this?
  • Too soon and should be next gen. When will they release it? Duel release?
  • Burned out on Gears, more dudebro coming and [insert mildly snarky remark].
  • Will this now come out on other platforms?
  • Cliff is eating popcorn, popcorn gifs come out.
  • Conner bakes up a ridiculous argument and goes off the rail about MGS Vancouver making this. Everybody agrees that People Can Fly is making this.
  • Kinect should be featured in this game, because of Kinect. Others say Kinect is a shame that should not be brought to Gears.

Forgot milking.
 

Conor 419

Banned
So, to sum up the thread:
  • Whoa, did not see that coming. Surprise ruined, why did Microsoft even allow this?
  • Too soon and should be next gen. When will they release it? Duel release?
  • Burned out on Gears, more dudebro coming and [insert mildly snarky remark].
  • Will this now come out on other platforms?
  • Cliff is eating popcorn, popcorn gifs come out.
  • Conner bakes up a ridiculous argument and goes off the rail about MGS Vancouver making this. Everybody agrees that People Can Fly is making this.
  • Kinect should be featured in this game, because of Kinect. Others say Kinect is a shame that should not be brought to Gears.

Off the rail? It's not that off the rail. Microsoft just made a studio single handedly for Halo, it kinda made sense that they'd make one for Gears too...until I forgot that they never owned it, that is.
 

Apocryphon

Member
Wow. Gears prequel?

Awesome, but fucking soon if next year is the release date.

Not as far as Epic are concerned. Work on Gears 3 was effectively complete by April 2011 but the game was pushed back so that MS would have a big holiday title. For arguments sake; if work on this began when work on Gears 3 wrapped, and it launches in April next year, it would have been in development for 2 years. Can't really expect them to sit twiddling their thumbs waiting for next gen...

It might feel too soon right now, but I reckon people will be ready for the game by the time it hits shelves.

If it's a PCF offshoot and not a core Epic developed title, chances are it'll have some distinguishing features. I'd go for a first-person Gears; PCF certainly know their way around the genre.
 

KageMaru

Member
If it can be done with a controller then Kinect is a waste of $150. Don't use voice commands as a reason it's worth it because you could just use the headset that comes with every Xbox.

Not that I care to take part in this debate, I just wanted to point out that voice commands on Kinect is not the same as using a headset.

Kinect has specific APIs that are run on the device IIRC, where there is no similar option for headsets.


Lmao perfect use of that gif.
 

Antioch

Member
Were you surprised when you read this topic? What difference does it make if it's a genuine surprise now instead of a genuine surprise next week? :p

Yeah I found it surprising, and I would have just preferred if this game was announced at the conference with a trailer and maybe a demo too, rather than just knowing about it and having to wait a few days to see anything. Still I'm happy about it and am also now somewhat more hyped for MS' conference than before.
 
If it can be done with a controller then Kinect is a waste of $150. Don't use voice commands as a reason it's worth it because you could just use the headset that comes with every Xbox.

No you cant.
Kinect has a array of sound recorders and uses some to filter out background noises.
So the voicestream can be as clear as possible.
 
Off the rail? It's not that off the rail. Microsoft just made a studio single handedly for Halo, it kinda made sense that they'd make one for Gears too...until I forgot that they never owned it, that is.

MS Vancouver is making a new IP. I don't think Gears is a new IP, unless the definition of new IP changed since yesterday.
 

Kaizer

Banned
Whoa, definitely did not see this coming so soon. Not sure why this thread has become a Kinect battleground, but I definitely want to hear more about this.
 

Massa

Member
No you cant.
Kinect has a array of sound recorders and uses some to filter out background noises.
So the voicestream can be as clear as possible.

A headset is clear enough for voice commands. Kinect needs the additional processing because it sits below your TV speakers and not close to your mouth.
 

derFeef

Member
god dammit Cliff, leave it alone already

I would prefer X to not make X anymore, because I do not enjoy it, and never play it.

If it can be done with a controller then Kinect is a waste of $150. Don't use voice commands as a reason it's worth it because you could just use the headset that comes with every Xbox.

A headset is clear enough for voice commands. Kinect needs the additional processing because it sits below your TV speakers and not close to your mouth.

Kinect can be used without a hassle, you don't need to code or license a VR software, you can just use it. It's so much easier for developers.
 
Not as far as Epic are concerned. Work on Gears 3 was effectively complete by April 2011 but the game was pushed back so that MS would have a big holiday title. For arguments sake; if work on this began when work on Gears 3 wrapped, and it launches in April next year, it would have been in development for 2 years. Can't really expect them to sit twiddling their thumbs waiting for next gen...

It might feel too soon right now, but I reckon people will be ready for the game by the time it hits shelves.

If it's a PCF offshoot and not a core Epic developed title, chances are it'll have some distinguishing features. I'd go for a first-person Gears; PCF certainly know their way around the genre.

if PCF really is making this game then that would means they could've been working on this ever since bulletstorm shipped.
 

Massa

Member
Kinect can be used without a hassle, you don't need to code or license a VR software, you can just use it. It's so much easier for developers.

Sure, because Microsoft introduced a voice recognition library that was artificially limited to only work with Kinect.
 

Salsa

Member
I would prefer X to not make X anymore, because I do not enjoy it, and never play it.

uh, yeah? what is wrong with that statement?

I like Cliff as a designer and I wish he would put his effort into something else instead of a Gears Of War sequel. I must be nuts!
 

derFeef

Member
Sure, because Microsoft introduced a voice recognition library that was artificially limited to only work with Kinect.

I just told you what the benefit of Kinect voice recognition is and you simply ignore it. Congrats.

uh, yeah? what is wrong with that statement?

I like Cliff as a designer and I wish he would put his effort into something else instead of a Gears Of War sequel. I must be nuts!
Granted I was a bit snarky.
They are making a new IP too, have you forgotten that?
 

iavi

Member
uh, yeah? what is wrong with that statement?

I like Cliff as a designer and I wish he would put his effort into something else instead of a Gears Of War sequel. I must be nuts!

If PCF really is behind this, there's a good chance he's passed the torch completely.
 

Xpliskin

Member
A prequel for a successful franchise is not surprising news if you'd ask me.

They want to release as many games before the next-gen reveal.


This has to has a 2013 release date, right before the next-generation will show it's face and developers start switching core teams to develop for the new hardware(s).
 

Massa

Member
I just told you what the benefit of Kinect voice recognition is and you simply ignore it. Congrats.

I didn't ignore it. Your post said developers can easily add voice recognition to their games using Kinect, I explained why it's easy with Kinect but not with the headset.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Yeah I found it surprising, and I would have just preferred if this game was announced at the conference with a trailer and maybe a demo too, rather than just knowing about it and having to wait a few days to see anything. Still I'm happy about it and am also now somewhat more hyped for MS' conference than before.

you only have to wait a few more days! Just think of it as you having been surprised even earlier than you would have otherwise!


SideNote: Kinect is atrocious, here's hoping Epic can avoid making Gears slide even further back by implementing some gimmicky shit feature in this title. In the next console if voice garbage is all you want, then just pack in a headset. Before Kinect there were already voice recognition games for 360 anyway
 

JimiNutz

Banned
People have been suggesting/hoping this may be a FPS - how would that work?
Would the game still feature gears mechanics (cover system, roadie run, executions, evade/roll, meat shield etc.) all from a first person perspective?
Or would people want it to just be a normal FPS with its own control scheme and mechanics but just have it set in the gears universe?

Im kinda excited by the idea of a gears FPS but not sure how id like it to play.
 
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