Have you ever played a Pikmin game?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Game Informer: Miyamoto Talks Pikmin, Wii U, New IPs and the Future of 3D Mario
- Thread starter BowieZ
- Start date
Have you ever played a Pikmin game?
DragonSworne
Banned
I bought a Gamecube for Pikmin
Have you ever played a Starcraft game? That game has more complexity than any pikmin game.
While is it true that Nintendo hasn't made a lot of big original new IPs, what it has done is what Miyamoto has mentioned, which is basically adding new ideas to sequels but also creating spin-off titles. You know, games that have original gameplay but use existing characters and/or universes instead of new ones.Games like Kid Icarus: Uprising, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Kirby Mass Attack are examples of that. Unfortunately, some times games like New SMB 2 and U didn't apparently offer enough fresh ideas, so Nintendo has issues with franchises like that growing stale, and it deserves to be criticized for it. We'll have to wait and see if the new ideas Nintendo's used for upcoming games such as Super Mario 3D World, DKC: Tropical Freeze and Mario Kart 8 turn out to be worthwhile. It appears Monolith Soft's X, is going to be quite different in some ways compared to Xenoblade Chronicles too. Then there's also games like Pokemon X& Y that are taking steps to evolve the franchise further.
Nintendo does have original IPs in their portfolio such as Wonderful 101 and that new cross over Fire Emblem X Shin Megami title (which is a second cross over game since Pokemon Conquest if I'm not mistaken). Yoshi's Yarn is another spin-off title, but we obviously don't know yet what will separate it from Kirby's Epic Yarn and even Yoshi's Island. A Link to the Past: A Link Between Worlds is an example of a game that feels very familiar , but it's adding new ideas that will hopefully strike the right balance of fresh ideas while simultaneously pleasing us with fan service.
totally new mechanics? lolwutpear.jpg where are the new mechanics compared to 3dland? the clear tubes? note that adding a powerup or two doesn't change the core mechanics
It's true that the Galaxy didn't have open worlds but i don't see how this matter since no one consider it "the culmination of all of the Marios" like the guy i quoted said about 3dworld, the same thing about the seldomness of it, it revolutionized the franchise and is one of if not the most important characteristic of the two games who had it so it should be included in the culminationyaddayadda
I'll surpass on the "new because it's new" because is as ridiculous as Reggie with Batman:AC
NSMB online is an issue of latency, not CPU power.
What Miyamoto means by "Natural world" is probably just that "A bunch of shit is happening at all times on the entire map and the players get real close and throw their pikmin everywhere and fuck implementing prediction code for all that."
I'm slightly wary of the pikmin controls answer. Sounds like it'd be more flexible with a wiimote and pointer, but I don't have a sensor bar set up on my TV and I was looking forward to playing with the gamepad. Having a map and the ability to direct characters around on the touch screen, while still playing the game on your TV was something I had hoped would be the optimal setup. Hopefully it isn't too limiting - I had no issues with the GameCube controls and they could have had precise aiming with that, just show where your aiming arc would land.
IchigoSharingan
Member
Sounds more like he just preferred to use the hardware to push the game's fluidity and visuals to the max and sacrifice online MP.
It was a design choice.
The Librarian
Banned
When he talks about Pikmin 3...
Also, we may get a new Galaxy game? That's awesome! SMG1 and SMG2 were two of my favorite games last generation.
One thing that we wanted to do with the original Pikmin was try to build in that replayability to it. But what we found was that, once people got to the end of the 30-day time limit in that game, they didn't really go back and play it again they were done with it at that point. So something we've done this time is really try to focus on how can we design the game in a way that really invites replayability so people can really immerse themselves in the game and play it over and over again. And we've done that both in terms of some of the modes we talked about this morning but also in terms of designing the story mode in a way that people would want to come back and play that later, even after they've finished it. Additionally we wanted to design it in a way that by playing longer and longer, you do get to understand the depth of the game and why that's fun and that that as well will kind of help you wanna keep coming back and playing as well.
This was my favorite part of the interview. I remember playing the Pikmin games when I was young and not going back to them after I had finished them both. My favorite games are those that I can go back to again and again. I love games like Halo that have gameplay mechanics that encourage re-playability, as well as elements that I enjoy experiencing again and again. So for me, it's great to hear that they really focused on the replayability aspect of Pikmin 3. Miyamoto has said in other interviews that there are worse ways and better ways to play through Pikmin 3, so that is probably what he's talking about.Also, we may get a new Galaxy game? That's awesome! SMG1 and SMG2 were two of my favorite games last generation.
I understand the business reasons, but I also think that they're being a little short-sighted in their attempt to hit the 2D Mario base all the time. Constantly going for that style is already becoming sort of tiresome and will engender faster burnout rates on the franchise. An "open" 3D Mario allows for a breath of fresh air every now and then.
Not to mention, I'm afraid that their attempts at trying to capture the NSMB sales numbers means that they'll have to reduce their ambition to appeal to the lowest common denominator. I get the sense that they think the Galaxy games were alienating because they were so "out there" conceptually.
I played Mario 3d World and the game is loads of fun. Nintendo wanted to make a Mario game that has multiplayer as a focus and this is the best way they saw fit. As the guy said Galaxy was a linear game and there was no real multiplayer.
How can you trash a game you didn't play(or did you), focus on multiplayer, appeals to everyone, is fun to play and new mechanics. We saw maybe 5 stages so far and there are probably more features we don't know about yet since Nintendo is still keen on keeping certain things to their chest still and yet you are judging it so harshly? Come on man. The game is fun so what is the problem? Maybe as games fun is now boring and we elevated to new as the new fun.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Once again, splitscreen and co-op and all that eats into the GPU of that system. Fair do's on CPU getting working on prediction engine stuff on the CPU, but the GPU just needs to show one screen now instead of the splitscreen 2.
So in actuality, Miyamoto's comment on creating a "natural world" makes even less sense as an excuse for no online. The people working on tightening up level 2's graphics are not the people building your online engine. Seemingly Nintendo only has the Mario Kart team for online stuff, since Smash is outsourced through Namco now, and... well I *THINK* X will have online mutliplayer, doesn't it?
H_Prestige
Banned
I just got a Wii U yesterday and I'm absolutely certain the gamepad doesn't need to be part of the system. You can already control 90% of the system with a wii remote. An update can make it 100%.
Take out the gamepad and sell it separately. Pack in a pro controller instead. Sell it with a 32gb system in black or white for $199. Done.
Take out the gamepad and sell it separately. Pack in a pro controller instead. Sell it with a 32gb system in black or white for $199. Done.
The case is probably more close to Miyamoto cares nothing about online and he will stick with his old ways. It is what it is. If the game had been planned at the start to be online...its hard to imagine they came to a point where they said the game was not possible online. I will still enjoy the game but will miss out not getting to try bingo mode. It sounds like fun.
Or maybe people have different definitions of fun and different expectations of the Mario series?
And reinforce the notion about people thinking the Wii U pad is a Wii add-on?
That's the last thing the Wii U needs right now.
plagiarize
Banned
more depth, perhaps, but units are all fairly slow and very easy to predict in comparison to a horde of pikmin.
What you are saying can be applied to everything in the world. My questions is, has he played the game yet? I have and many people have and majority said it was a fun game. Most people I hear hating the game have not played it.
If he said he played the game and he hates it then fine.
There are very few games that people go in with all expectations met exactly and yet they love the game.
Edit: Everyone probably in the whole world has an expectation of every new COD that is released and yet it sells by the truckload because they still have fun with it. I am sure if you ask them they would rather a different COD game but yet they buy the yearly installments because they still find it a fun run and gun game.
It seems Miyamoto still lives in a world where voice chat doesn't exist, neither do dedicated servers, and where somehow a new IP is only defined by a new character but it's OK to turn every game into a multiple entries declination with minor gameplay additions or even just changing the main character. By his definition, what is NSLU?
H_Prestige
Banned
What's worse, selling a $350 system that nobody wants? Or selling a $200 system that people might buy and another device other people might mistakenly buy for their wii?
Seriously, the thing is fucking pointless. It's sitting there mirroring the TV while I'm playing NSMB with wii remotes. There's no reason I can't control the menu or the eshop with a dpad. Touching the little icons on the pad doesn't add anything.
The last thing it needs is a deadweight controller driving up the price by $100.
Mario is obviously the best suited for their platforming games - that's his bread and butter. But here's Nintendo's (apparent) thinking:
Golf game? Mario's the best fit
Soccer game? Mario's the best fit
Cart racer? Mario
Puzzle? Mario.
Rpg? Mario!
So I ask you, WHEN exactly will they make a game where they feel a new IP is in order? Mario can do fucking everything! A new IP is NEVER necessary!
Who's the best character suited for that gameplay...
Bullshit.
Spieler Eins
Member
You can hate the obvious direction they've taken without playing it. We all know it's gonna have good stages and be fun for what it is, but what it is is fucking underwhelming. From the reports saying ,,well at least it's fun'', pretty much everyone I've seen also started with ,,Although it's not what I wanted'' (in one way or another).
Same goes for DK Country. It doesn't matter how good the game is, you can still be disappointed by it or hate the announcement itself, because even if you'd play it, it's not all of a sudden gonna turn into Metroid Prime 4 or whatever people expected from Retro Studios.
And yet people didn't want a Metroid 4. There were a lot of people that wanted something else and not Metroid 4. See how expectation work, you used Metroid 4 for what you wanted? You can't please everyone, atleast the constant is fun. This is not the final Mario game, people are acting like there were be no more marios ever. Nintendo made Mario 3dL which was hugely successful and probably has so much more ideals left and made Mario 3dw.
$100 price tag difference or not, it's still an unappealing, underpowered console with nothing to show for it. Strip the Wii U Pad away from the Wii U and it'd be the most generic box on the market. A price tag difference is not going to mean anything if there is no content to show for it, and the best thing they can do now is put out the games, hope that something they have going for it can justify the pad and then drop the price.
The confusion surrounding the pad, the console and it's predecessor is not going to be mediated by separating what is supposed to be a simple factor into an even more complex one, especially when Nintendo have been doing so many rounds separating it from the Wii because it needs something to sell itself on. If games will eventually mediate that issue then the concept of dropping the pad will be a non-factor.
So now you are trying to find a cool way to get out of the discussion you started, I (and you) was discussing about how "new" the game is, let's stick to that please.
Watching 3dworld is exactly like watching 3dland it's nothing else that the same game but revamped just like Sunshine was with 64 with the difference that Sunshine at least changed the theme of the game. It has the same controls and has the same looks, with a certain patter of controls you can only a certain number of things regarding level design so in the end it's pretty obvious that the game has the same "look and feel" than 3dland and that's exactly what they wanted at nintendo and surely an higher texture of the grass won't change how empty and sterile the levels look (just like 3dland btw).
You keep throwing that Galaxy at me which i only used as an example to show how making the game substantially different can make a masterpiece, who cares if it was linear? it had brand new mechanics (built in a very clever game) and certainly didn't want to be the culmination of all the marios like you claim on 3dworld/land so he wasn't forced to have big open worlds.
You don't have to play it to figure how how it's going to play. I've seen videos of all the levels you've played (and went to the Best Buy presentation too); I have a good sense of what to expect. I understand the design goals and limitations of it. I don't need to have a controller in my hand to extrapolate the possibilities.
I'm sure it's fun to play. I'm sure there will be some well-designed levels, as always, coming from EAD. I'm sure there will be attempts to dub it a "classic" (a la 3D Land, which I also disagree with). But it really isn't what I wanted or what I think the Wii U needed right now. And its whole design philosophy ("appeal to the 2D Mario crowd because that sells better") feels particularly short-sighted and fails to recognize the benefits of diversification.
H_Prestige
Banned
It's not a either/or situation. Get the games out and drop the price. Price is an issue. $350 is not the right price for a nintendo system. It's not what casual family gamers are willing to pay, no matter how many games there are.
The gamepad is not a selling point. Do you see it selling Wii U's? I don't. Removing it won't hurt the system. If good games are there that people want to play, no one is going to care if the controller is a carbon copy of the xbox controller. Games are selling points, not gimmicky plastic hardware.
Ironically, it's because Nintendo wanted to be so different that they created the Wii U confusion in the first place. If the system used the pro controller, or heck even the same wii remote as before, there would be no confusion as to what it was. It would be obvious that it's the next generation nintendo machine. Instead they make this ipad looking thing and make that the focus of all their ads. And unless you're well informed, that ipad looking thing could conceivably be a device you could use with your wii. Given how nintendo is advertising it, that's probably the most logical conclusion to make.
Make the pad optional. Then it's no longer part of your system advertisements. Suddenly the confusion is gone.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
The "latency" defense used by Nintendo fans was always bs. That quote confirms it.
Can't believe people defend Pikmin 3 not having online play, too. There's not a single decision that Nintendo makes that their fans won't furiously defend. Perhaps they shouldn't have put a cheap, underpowered CPU in the Wii U if "lack of processing power" is the reason why there's no online.
That was my favorite part of the interview.
Jerkapotamus
Member
Not only is it the wrong price for family gamers, but it is also the wrong price for people that just want to play Nintendo games on it. I'm not going to drop $350 for a system I will only buy 3-5 games a year. Drop the price by 100 and it becomes a consideration.
So you want to continue our discussion then lets.
Mario 64 to Sunshine - Fudd and New theme, a better hub world( I am sure I am missing other differences) and yet many people hated it.
Mario 64/Sunshine to Galaxy - New theme, new mechanic(planets and gravity), more linear, more suits
Mario 3d L to Mario 3dW - Bigger, more varied, complex and intricate stages, better camera, 4 player multiplayer, each player playing differently, new storyline, new/more suits(catsuit and Tanooki suit's return) which changes gameplay, new mechanics(transparent pipes which changes game play), more could be revealed since the game isn't out yet.
Disclaimer: Please add or correct me in the difference between games.
So what is the problem again? Looks like a proper Mario game to me. I do not want to continue this cause so you can reply but I am not doing the same(maybe).
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
This guy sounds so fucking old and archaic. I literally lol'd at his explanation for lack of multiplayer.
That's something we both agree on. That said, I don't think that jettisoning the pad is the solution to that. I think it's better to just bite the bullet and take the loss.
The issue here is that, as said, on it's own the Wii U is clearly not holding up as a desirable console. The console word-of-mouth has not been treating it well, there's negative press on a daily basis and it's commonly considered that it's an underpowered interim for the next generation, even though it's not even getting half of the games that 360/PS3 is getting. I have a feeling that even Nintendo knows this, and it's too little too late right now to do a hardware revision and bump it up to PS4, let alone Xbox One levels.
Obviously using the pad as a selling point didn't work out for them, but so far, it and the non-released Nintendo games are everything this console has going for it. Putting that separately might just be a venture in more useless add-ons much like the CirclePad Pro, and while I don't think that the game pad is in and of itself a bad idea, it's just fatally flawed in execution.
The best compromise I see would be making it a point right off the bat that it still uses the Wii Remotes, that it's a significant step up from the Wii and talk about the pad after those formalities are out of the way.
So what did you want? Let start there because what you listed is what most games try their hardest to achieve and fail. Just a new theme?
"This guy" is the reason you're still playing video games.
plank
Member
Have clear pipes been in Mario games before?
Starphoenix
Member
Wrong thread.
Pikmin not having online is not a big deal to me. The game isn't one where I'm looking for a deep multiplayer experience.
Pikmin not having online is not a big deal to me. The game isn't one where I'm looking for a deep multiplayer experience.
Pikmin multiplayer is nothing like Starcraft multiplayer, but yeah Nintendo could have added online muliplayer if they wanted to. I'm not even sure why people want multiplayer Pikmin anyway. After Pikmin 2 I wish they just put everything behind making a single player game and left all multiplayer out of it.
Edit: They should keep online multiplayer out of Mario platformers, the main Zelda game, and Metroid too imho. Now a new Battalion Wars, Star Fox, Mario Sports, Mario Party,Fzero, Loz four Swords,Wii Sports, or Advance Wars with online multiplayer is what I would want.
Oh now you are just straight out trolling...
Are you actually telling me that clear pipes are actually a thing worth of noting in the regards of changing gameplay?
And you are actually adding things in 3dL->3dW like different story, bigger and more intricate stages and more/different powerups but you are not listing them in 64->Sunshine and/or Sunshine->Galaxy?
And are you trying to make look like the gravity and planets mechanics forgettable stuff by putting them in parenthesis?
So you are basically listing every incredibly minor difference for 3dl->3dw and removed the same ones and minimizing the others for the other 2 cycles of games
Sure it does have a better camera (only in single!) multiplayer mode but everyone agrees that isn't neither new nor an original idea for a game more than ever when you cannot use it online. And surely it isn't the revolution in mario that everyone awaited before the announcement.
Sorry but I think no one will fall for that troll bait...
Gah... Don't give them any ideas. Reading that quote
It could be 3ds or WiiU, entirely possible they haven't made that decision yet. Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, there's been a serious lack of compelling rumors or specifics on ANY big ticket non-Mario universe games. Leaving quotes like this just further prevents those on the fence from taking the leap and buying a WiiU on the promise of future awesome games.
not me. It's pretty obvious the direction they are on. A new Galaxy or M64 isn't coming for wii u. Maybe, just maybe if they change direction there might be one for the next console.
I'm debating whether or not to sell my unit post Pikmin. It really seems bleak for wii u. :-/
It sure looks that way. :-(
WiiredShawn
Member
Guys, the important news here is that there's possibly a new Metroid game already in the works. When you say, "We don't have anything that we're working on that we can discuss probably", versus just saying "We're not working on anything related to that franchise right now," then something is in the making.
Please be good, please be shown next year.
Please be good, please be shown next year.
PatmanBegins
Neo Member
I have the most profound respect for Miyamoto and his major contributions to building this industry.
That said, this interview drives home my recent feelings that Nintendo's leadership has reached the point where they are far too tone-deaf and insular in their thinking to succeed in today's market.
It's a company that has invested its energies and money in to the wrong areas and refuses to recognize what's working for the entire industry (even basic shit like intelligent online support is still out of their grasp) and putting their own unique spin on it.
Instead, they continue to stubbornly trek down this "unique" path that the market has clearly spoken out against - developers and, more importantly, consumers will not follow them down this road.
Nintendo still has a chance to be the Disney of video games with its one of a kind emotional connection between its properties and the consumers. But even a giant conglomerate like Disney is quicker to pivot itself in the face of consumer trends in the gaming industry than Nintendo is.
Only a major change of approach (whether it be a realization made by Iwata/Miyamoto and Co. or installation of new leadership) can save Nintendo long term. Otherwise, I worry about them long term. I root for them, but I worry even more. Here's to hoping they figure it out soon.
That said, this interview drives home my recent feelings that Nintendo's leadership has reached the point where they are far too tone-deaf and insular in their thinking to succeed in today's market.
It's a company that has invested its energies and money in to the wrong areas and refuses to recognize what's working for the entire industry (even basic shit like intelligent online support is still out of their grasp) and putting their own unique spin on it.
Instead, they continue to stubbornly trek down this "unique" path that the market has clearly spoken out against - developers and, more importantly, consumers will not follow them down this road.
Nintendo still has a chance to be the Disney of video games with its one of a kind emotional connection between its properties and the consumers. But even a giant conglomerate like Disney is quicker to pivot itself in the face of consumer trends in the gaming industry than Nintendo is.
Only a major change of approach (whether it be a realization made by Iwata/Miyamoto and Co. or installation of new leadership) can save Nintendo long term. Otherwise, I worry about them long term. I root for them, but I worry even more. Here's to hoping they figure it out soon.
Seems like 3D Land and 3D World are attempts to get more of the fans of 2D Mario into 3D Mario, recognizing that the side scrollers still sell a lot more. It really sounds like what a lot of game designers did in the early PS1 days -- basically make games that still feel like 2D games but are rendered in polygons. And back then a certain subgroup of the casual audience did drop out of gaming once dual analog camera control came into play.
And for the new IP thing, I wouldn't want NIntendo to come out with a new IP just for the sake of having a new IP. I'd want it to be a new gameplay type that feels fresh and completely different form what they've established already.
I admit that their approach is a hazy line. Mario Kart could've been a new IP. Smash Bros. could've been a new IP. Kid Icarus Uprising could've been a new IP. Kirby's Canvas Curse could've been a new IP.
And technically, Nintendo DID make successful new IPs last gen in the form of the Wii series, Nintendogs and Brain Age, just for a different audience. You could even count Harmo Knight and Pushmo as new IPs, they just aren't as well-known because they're digital-only. Would you buy Crashmo as a packaged Wii U game if it came with 600 puzzles?
And for the new IP thing, I wouldn't want NIntendo to come out with a new IP just for the sake of having a new IP. I'd want it to be a new gameplay type that feels fresh and completely different form what they've established already.
I admit that their approach is a hazy line. Mario Kart could've been a new IP. Smash Bros. could've been a new IP. Kid Icarus Uprising could've been a new IP. Kirby's Canvas Curse could've been a new IP.
And technically, Nintendo DID make successful new IPs last gen in the form of the Wii series, Nintendogs and Brain Age, just for a different audience. You could even count Harmo Knight and Pushmo as new IPs, they just aren't as well-known because they're digital-only. Would you buy Crashmo as a packaged Wii U game if it came with 600 puzzles?
metalslimer
Member
I really am tired of Nintendo continuing to try and make 3D Mario some billion selling franchise. How the hell are you not happy with making hundreds of millions per entry? Oh well Super Mario Galaxy only sold 10 million copies how abysmal....Get over it Nintendo, 3D Mario will never sell CoD numbers. I'm having strong fears that the entire game of 3D World will be as dumbed down as the first half of 3D Land. Nintendo obviously still has so much talent, probably the greatest collection of talent in one place in the industry, yet it feels as if they are circling the wagons at this point