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Game Informer: Miyamoto Talks Pikmin, Wii U, New IPs and the Future of 3D Mario
- Thread starter BowieZ
- Start date
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I can give them Kid Icarus Uprising because it seems a sincere attempt to flesh out the Kid Icarus world and make it robust.
Harmo Knight could easily be expanded into a full-fledged console platformer, just with a wider variety of music and game mechanics.
And Pikmin 3 being so close reminds me of how carefully Nintendo crafts IP - ten+ years out and Pikmin is a fascinating world that begs exploration, with really appealing characters and scenario. Sometimes I wonder how many prototype IPs get tested inside Nintendo but are killed off - not because Nintendo never investigates them. But they want to try so hard to make sure they're not a waste.
But maybe that's why games like Harmo Knight, Crashmo, and Dillion are getting made for the eshop. Small scale, safe test bed, no money to lose on retail product.
Never heard of Wii and Nintendo DS?
Haha! Yeah I was thinking the same thing when I read that.
As far as online games, I'm convinced that Nintendo, like the rest of the Japanese gaming industry, doesn't give a fuck about online.
Just look at their focus with StreetPass and how incompatible it is with countries that don't have Japan's population density. The fighting game industry went through this same problem last gen -- focusing too much on Japanese arcades which diminished their relevance outside that environment. Outside of fighters and MMOs I don't think I've seen a single Japanese game with a really popular online mode. Demon's Souls managed to do something unique but that game and Dark Souls are still relatively niche.
Japanese developers pretty much just started putting online modes into their games out of necessity when putting them on PS3 and 360. Too many multiplayer-focused Japanese PSP games shipped without online. Monster Hunter still doesn't even have online on the 3DS.
Japan in general still prefers local multipalyer and hasn't realized that local multiplayer is no longer a viable option for most western gamers. I would argue that local, when possible, is still better than the way online console gaming is currently handled, but in that case it's up to developers to find a better way.
Well let's be real: they made another KI because fans bitched for it.
Just look at their focus with StreetPass and how incompatible it is with countries that don't have Japan's population density. The fighting game industry went through this same problem last gen -- focusing too much on Japanese arcades which diminished their relevance outside that environment. Outside of fighters and MMOs I don't think I've seen a single Japanese game with a really popular online mode. Demon's Souls managed to do something unique but that game and Dark Souls are still relatively niche.
Japanese developers pretty much just started putting online modes into their games out of necessity when putting them on PS3 and 360. Too many multiplayer-focused Japanese PSP games shipped without online. Monster Hunter still doesn't even have online on the 3DS.
Japan in general still prefers local multipalyer and hasn't realized that local multiplayer is no longer a viable option for most western gamers. I would argue that local, when possible, is still better than the way online console gaming is currently handled, but in that case it's up to developers to find a better way.
Well let's be real: they made another KI because fans bitched for it.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
True, though Sakurai also seems to have an affection for Pit.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
The entirety of 3D World is going to be as easy as 3D Land's first half? I can't even
People really have gone off the deep end
To be quite honest, I'm okay with this. Too many games focus on online and have lackluster local multiplayer modes (if any - some games are removing it entirely). Nintendo is the best in the business at local multiplayer, so frankly they should keep doing what they're really, really good at
Dion Blaster
Member
Don't go back to Galaxy :/ 64-2 plz
I like the mushroom kingdom motif so much more than space, as fun as those games were. We haven't had a 3D mushroom kingdom since 64.
I like the mushroom kingdom motif so much more than space, as fun as those games were. We haven't had a 3D mushroom kingdom since 64.
IchigoSharingan
Member
sure but is it not true that MP is notoriously CPU intensive while single player is GPU?
Not saying the 'excuse' is any less lame... I mean, why invest in such a shit CPU that is ALREADY limiting how far the game experience can reach?
timetokill
Banned
The great thing about these Mario games is that they can be more accessible while still having more challenge than the 3D Mario games.
The star road levels in 2D Mario games like NSMB Wii U and New Super Luigi U, the golden temple levels in DKCR... all significantly more legitimately challenging and more rewarding than anything in the 3D Mario games.
(I use legitimately there to describe challenge that isn't related to camera bullshit that is frustrating and unfair.)
The star road levels in 2D Mario games like NSMB Wii U and New Super Luigi U, the golden temple levels in DKCR... all significantly more legitimately challenging and more rewarding than anything in the 3D Mario games.
(I use legitimately there to describe challenge that isn't related to camera bullshit that is frustrating and unfair.)
PatmanBegins
Neo Member
As recent as that may have felt, it was a completely different age and the gaming landscape has changed tremendously.
I have both systems (and a Wii U and 3DS), but recognize that they're not viable in today's market.
Hell, even Wii sales fell off a cliff much earlier than anyone, including Nintendo, expected.
Mobile gaming and online, socially connected gaming are here to stay, and Nintendo is behind the curve in both areas.
To say otherwise is to be, in my opinion, as tone deaf to market trends as Nintendo is.
The 3DS has made a comeback, to be sure, but I would love to get a demographic breakdown of that userbase. I would bet a lot of money that it's not even close to as diverse as the original DS was. The core consumer market is not gaming on 3DS' on the go.
Wii U still has a chance in the market, but not with their current approach. A major pivot is needed.
The Librarian
Banned
Well, other than Mario 64's huge hubworld, the levels were just as linear as Galaxy's, no? At least, that's what I remember.
Some, but not most.
Nearly all stages had stars that could be done out of order, for example. They certainly felt more like open playgrounds than "levels"
I personally see the value of both approaches, but I think we are overdue for another 64/Sunshine entry now.
There were parts like the Bowser stages, but Mario 64 was more about having wide open levels that let people figure out their own way of doing things without as much guidance.
Starfish Hero
Member
Pikmin as a concept was always CPU bound.
...what
JordanN
Banned
But now they didn't keep up with it for the new hardware where we could have gotten online instead.
It also makes me question if the missing animations also had to do with the CPU as someone pointed out before.
There wasnt all that much to "figure out" though. Certainly nothing complex enough to require "guidance".
And the playground aspect of M64 served its purpose as an introduction to running around in a 3D world, but we are beyond that.
Mario platformers should be platformers. Stuff like figuring out how to reach certain areas in an open world (also known as exploration), should never be the focus of a franchise that personifies top of the line 3D platforming. It can be there, and it always is to various degrees, but it should never the focus.
I still fail to see how taking a format you have tried once and was successful with on a handheld, fleshing out to a full 4 player console experience and putting that out is safer than going with the same format 3D Mario has been working with since Super Mario 64. Wouldn't creating another single player, collect 120 of something (maybe more with Luigi and challenges) game have been the safe, wagon circling route?
Ganondorfo
Junior Member
I hope that mario world game for the WII U will be good, but you feel like most fans arent anticipating this game like when the first trailer of Super mario galaxy 1 was announced. Nintendo should have listened to its fans and created a third Galaxy game.
They did this exact same thing with New Super Mario Bros DS to Wii.
Galaxy was not the result of Nintendo listening to their fans. Let them do whatever they want to do I say
And it was fucking awesome. Seriously NSMBWii is a great game.
Much better than the DS NSMB
Anticitizen One
Banned
When Iwata resigns and Miyamoto retires can we have hungry ambitious 80s/90s Nintendo back pleaes?
Even with a processor 20 times faster, and 4 times the cores, I'm pretty sure they would prefer to use the full processor power to create a lively, believable world. You know, make the game worth playing.
And? We can go back and find similar evolutionary links between most any sequel ever.
*edit* Besides, if the developer is to be believed, 3d World is being made with multiplayer in mind while NSMBWii wasn't. Should prove to be a notable difference.
Sammy Samusu
Member
Does it run at 60fps?
Well, the point was that it was used to question the "safety" of the direction of this title. Just saying that they're following the exact same formula as NSMB DS to NSMB Wii. It'll be interesting to see how it works out in December.
Edit: My original post was not meant to question the quality of the title btw.
Bony Manifesto
Member
If it was a technical marvel that really showed what the Wii U hardware can do, I might see your point, but the unfortunate reality is that it isn't. It started life on the Wii, and it shows.
abstract alien
Member
I read that and thought to myself "This is the most ridiculous answer I've ever read.". Usually they are just blunt and say "well we didn't want it online" but wow. That was pretty bad lol
coming from miyamoto who likes to speak in riddles and mysteries this pretty much confirms that they've got something else cookin'. super mario universe, luigi galaxy, etc. i'm glad he said something now so it's not a year of people arguing over whether or not 3d world is the legit console Mario game or not, it's obviously its own thing now.
If it's just galaxy it will be pretty redundant with 3d world though.
TheCongressman1
Member
Uhhh, yeah, that's what I thought. What?
Net_Wrecker
Member
That IP answer is sort of nonsense. Thinking of "new gameplay ideas" first is a good thing, but thinking "what character is suited to this gameplay" as in just going through the Nintendo rolodex and picking one of their old (usually overused) characters is not enough. He's discounting the role new characters, environments, and presentation adds to the experience. That answer reads more like Nintendo just not wanting to invest in new characters because it takes more work to create and market than falling back on established IPs
the way i see it is that they've got a big pool of concepts that work in 3d mario games. with the galaxy games on the Wii, they had to pick and choose the best concepts that worked together to please two different audiences - hardcore and casual. it was like a mix, a constant sacrifice to please two different audiences at the same time. on one hand the game was highly linear, although it'd mix that up with hard platforming elements. the game was a masterpiece because of this, but i think they realized this could be done even better so they've gone and split it up into two different series. with 3d world, they can take most of the casual elements and isolate them into their own experience. embrace the linear nature, add in new elements that are only possible without gameplay comprimise in a highly linear environment (multiplayer) and just create the ultimate mario game around these specific elements. now they can take the mario galaxy series, now less bound from the need to compromise, and take him off in an even crazier direction. you can already see this jump from galaxy 1 to galaxy 2, they could take that even further. so i don't think it'll be the same in the end.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
It supports every control scheme imaginable.
There is no "waggle". It supports IR mouse control ala the Wii revisions of Pikmin 1 and 2. It can also be played with the gamepad alone, or off-screen on the gamepad. It can also be played with the pro controller.
Bony Manifesto
Member
I think it's bullshit for the overwhelming majority of Nintendo's games anyway. It's going to be hard to convince me that, say, Mario Kart 8 was conceived as a game concept and it was only part way through prototyping that someone suggested "hey, you know this kind of seems like a Mario Kart game here".
Yeah...I'm feeling the same way. Nobody wants the 3D marios to borrow from the NSMB series.
i think you're reading into it a bit far. they obviously make sequels and i don't think they pretend a whole lot that they don't make sequels for their games. this would be new game type experiments that he'd be talking about here, the spin-offs, whatever you call them. fortune street, wii sports, link's crossbow training, mario tennis, star fox adventures, smash brothers, etc etc
akidnamededdy
Banned
Makes sense. You don't buy Mario games for the compelling characters.
Or if you do...cut that out.
Bony Manifesto
Member
Yeah, there are some games that clearly had a Nintendo IP transplanted in them (Kirby: Canvas Curse and Kirby's Epic Yarn both spring to mind), but I think that even a lot of those games on your list, while perhaps started out that way, have gone on to become franchises in their own right. Smash Brothers especially sticks extremely closely to the template of the N64 original.
Crucially, we haven't had any of these 'new ideas, existing franchise' games announced for the Wii U yet. Well, we had Nintendo Land and Game and Wario, but those were just minigame collections, and while they provided tantalising glimpses into what full-fledged 'innovative' games on the Wii U might be like, they're very much the entree to a main course that seems so very far away.
Conrad Link
Member
Metroid doesn't get enough respect, its not a B-franchise Nintendo. >_> Makes me really annoyed.
The days of Prime wonderfulness and the yaaay Metroid GBA games seem so long ago now.
The days of Prime wonderfulness and the yaaay Metroid GBA games seem so long ago now.
Hale-XF11
Member
So, the Wii U isn't even powerful enough to handle this game and online communication at the same time? If that's true, then that's just sad. If not, then he's being incredibly disingenuous and that's disappointing at best. Then he implies that you can't communicate and cooperate online? What's wrong with this guy? Who does he think he's fooling anymore?
This shit is baffling. I just don't get Nintendo. :/
prag16
Banned
Good news/bad news on the Mario front then.
We may still get a "proper" 3D Mario game this gen. BUT Miyamoto characterizes it as part of the "Galaxy series". Unless he considers 64 and Sunshine part of the same.
Not that Galaxy is bad; just wanted something new that takes the best of All 3D Mario games to this point and adds more. We'll see.
We may still get a "proper" 3D Mario game this gen. BUT Miyamoto characterizes it as part of the "Galaxy series". Unless he considers 64 and Sunshine part of the same.
Not that Galaxy is bad; just wanted something new that takes the best of All 3D Mario games to this point and adds more. We'll see.
Jaded Alyx
Member
Metroid doesn't get enough respect, its not a B-franchise Nintendo. >_> Makes me really annoyed.
The days of Prime wonderfulness and the yaaay Metroid GBA games seem so long ago now.
In terms of sales, it's more like a C-franchise...
Really? I would say it is a B-franchise since the series is able to sell a million units worldwide consistently. Other M botched that for being a terrible game.
Jaded Alyx
Member
What would Kirby or Zelda or Donkey Kong be?