Support NeoGAF

[TheD]

Except you lost this argument years ago when various GC games mainly RE4 and Rebel Strike demonstrated techniques that could be only be done with something capable of that level.

Go ahead and say what you like the facts are there in the games. No shaders don't exclusively belong to ms not the concept maybe how MS has it own ways but anyone with a texture combiner can make pixel shader based effects that's fact period.

Your right he may not have a clue but that doesn't change what developers have left their info up at a varierty of explanations on several effects and how a cube has or could do them. Be it games or amateur tech demos just to show that cube could do it there is no debate except those who wish to be ignorant or clueless on the subject. Take your pick I don't care you're not posting that bs in a thread like this.

How dare you!

The TEV does not support a shader model FFS! SM 2.0 is DX9!, the TEV is not even close to that level you fool!

MS did term "shader model" so they had a name for a fixed set of features hardware must support!

Just because some effects can be done on it (like DX7 hardware) DOES NOT mean the TEV has programmable shader pipelines or that it has anything to do with shader models!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[civilstrife]

From that thread:

You can open WW models in SMG2.

I guess they really were both on the "Nintendo Engine"

 

[pottuvoi]

The lighting trick seems like pretty straight forward.

- render spheres where.
- forward facing polygons mask stencil.
- backward facing polygons unmask stencil.
- write yellowish transparent surface on pixels which still have mask.

If you do not have stencil and have enough color range on your image.
You can just add color with front faces and sub is with negative of the color with back faces. (ie. +2 brightness and -2 brightness.)

 

[GCX]

WW still has the best explosion and smoke effects. Like the article says, it's simply a perfect cartoon smoke cloud.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

I thought everyone knew about the dynamic footsteps and lightsource touxhes in this game. Tesselation, no matter how crude however, was the big "whaaaa" for me.

Also this game is the epitome of art design marred to technical prowess.

I think tessellation is being used in a different way, not the fancy modern graphical thing.

 

[Tain]

Pretty surprised he thought Uncharted was the first to have the IK feet thing. It existed as early as '96 with Virtua Fighter 3.

In fact, if I remember right, it even existed in Virtua Fighter 2. The mind-blowing part about it existing in Virtua Fighter 2 is that all the arenas are completely flat. The only situation you could possibly see it in, if I'm remembering right, is when you win by ring out yet are outside of the ring yourself and your character's win pose causes them to have one foot up in the ring.

 

[LCGeek]

How dare you!

The TEV does not support a shader model FFS! SM 2.0 is DX9!, the TEV is not even close to that level you tard!

MS did term "shader model" so they had a name for a fixed set of features hardware must support!

Just because some effects can be done on it (like DX7 hardware) DOES NOT mean the TEV has programmable shader pipelines or that it has anything to do with shader models!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not gonna tell what you change specifcally but don't make things personal or use certain words admins love new people who use certain words that really don't be need to be used.

Also I'm not gonna argue with someone who doesn't know that texture combiner can be used for pixel shading effects. Never said it used the Sm model either I said devs on another forum equated the effects it were doing to something in the SM at the Sm2 level its right there in the post you keep arguing about. Check the post and read before you go responding like a chicken with your head cut off.

 

[timetokill]

Nintendo has built a pretty vast library of reusable code that you see in a lot of their games. It's fun because you'll see a new graphics technique appear in a Zelda, then you'll see it show up in the next Mario, and then a technique in that Mario will appear in the next Zelda, and so forth.

One of the main examples I always think of is the head and eye-tracking that Link and Mario do, as well as things like the dynamic-synchronized music libraries.

 

[DownWithTheShip]

I wish they would rerelease this on the Wii or 3DS. I have no idea where my copy is and would love to play it again.

New copies are going for $150+. A little more than I want to spend. I guess used copies aren't too much.

 

[aeroslash]

What an awesome article on a gorgeous game!

It's always so nice to see the tricks the developers used!

 

[SMT]

Not really on-topic, but having played SS, and gone back a little, WW is really not the cohesive aesthetic I thought it was at the time. That screen is a good example, the town texture work makes Link look really out of place.

I think it's my hate goggles, but I see Windwaker as a god-like video game.
I don't even want to mention the other 'thing'.

Urk...

I would even play Windwaker (Wandwanker) in string infrastructure.

 

[Anth0ny]

I need an HD remake for Wii U, Nintendo. Charge me $15. Charge me $60. Charge me $100. I don't care. I needs it.

The most beautiful game ever made. If any game ever deserved an HD remake, it's this one.

 

[10k]

Day 1 GameCube classic download with Wii U please.

Fucken gorgeous.

 

[Speevy]

I want to see one of these for F-Zero GX.

That game looks great.

 

[Cramoss]

From that thread:

You can open WW models in SMG2.

I guess they really were both on the "Nintendo Engine"

Wow.. that's pretty cool.

 

[Suairyu]

http://i.imgur.com/xCrKX.jpg

If they can do this, why does Link's hat still clip through his fucking shield?

 

[1-UP]

The best Zelda game ever continues to impress.

 

[brobban]

I wonder what this would look like with normal maps and tessellation using the same amount of polygons.

If you talk about dynamic tessellation (aka how it's applied in modern DX11 games), then tessellation is actually adding more polygons. So it wouldn't be the same amount.

Every object in every game built on polygons is tessellated. The question is just how much..

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

I miss the good ole days when Nintendo actually gave a shit about technology.

 

[Dion Blaster]

From that thread:

You can open WW models in SMG2.

I guess they really were both on the "Nintendo Engine"

More evidence that a cel-shaded Mario would be superduper.

I miss the good ole days when Nintendo actually gave a shit about technology.

I know right? A whole entire gen ago.

 

[stuart]

I miss the good ole days when Nintendo actually gave a shit about technology.

Um what? The Wii's motion controls and the DS touchscreen have redefined modern gaming with the other companies following suit. Whether you like it or not is another matter.

The 3DS is also the first console to feature 3D graphics in every game.

 

[choodi]

I miss the good ole days when Nintendo actually gave a shit about technology.

Enough with the anti-Nintendo bullshit.

You have just been presented with evidence that Nintendo are well ahead of the curve when it comes to technology and you still have this stupid fucking attitude.

Just because they don't go down the path of brute force hardware technology, doesn't mean that they don't give a shit about technology.

The NES and SNES were "the good ole days" of Nintendo and neither one used what could even remotely be termed cutting edge hardware.

Clearly you are 15 years old, or just don't understand Nintendo's approach to hardware and technology.

 

[xJavonta]

I miss the good ole days when Nintendo actually gave a shit about technology.

Um what? The Wii's motion controls and the DS touchscreen have redefined modern gaming with the other companies following suit. Whether you like it or not is another matter.

The 3DS is also the first console to feature 3D graphics in every game.

Enough with the anti-Nintendo bullshit.

You have just been presented with evidence that Nintendo are well ahead of the curve when it comes to technology and you still have this stupid fucking attitude.

Just because they don't go down the path of brute force hardware technology, doesn't mean that they don't give a shit about technology.

The NES and SNES were "the good ole days" of Nintendo and neither one used what could even remotely be termed cutting edge hardware.

Clearly you are 15 years old, or just don't understand Nintendo's approach to hardware and technology.

I think he means from a graphical standpoint. When it comes down to revolutionizing the way games are played, Nintendo is the leader.

 

[choodi]

I think he means from a graphical standpoint. When it comes down to revolutionizing the way games are played, Nintendo is the leader.

Um, Mario Galaxy anyone. Fantastic graphical technology

 

[Graphics Horse]

I think tessellation is being used in a different way, not the fancy modern graphical thing.

Yes it just says 'tessellated plane', it's simply a fixed size grid of right angled triangles, much like this:

Funny to see people going crazy over it though.

 

[Fezan]

Liked to read the article though didn't understood much.

There was also one for shadow of colossus which i found out be very impressive

 

[xJavonta]

Um, Mario Galaxy anyone. Fantastic graphical technology

I agree, all the first party Wii titles look excellent. But only when played on Dolphin in my experience. Playing them on my TV (which isn't even that large, its' a 32" 720p LCD) all Wii games look like crap.

Spoiler

then again, I am a PC gamer so most console games look like garbage to me.

 

[specialguy]

I know right? A whole entire gen ago.

aka 2001...

 

[chertipros]

Liked to read the article though didn't understood much.

There was also one for shadow of colossus which i found out be very impressive

Sweet can you find it?

 

[lightchris]

Sweet can you find it?

Get it here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1625351/making_of_sotc.pdf

Actually finding this more interesting than the WW "article".

 

[Fezan]

Sweet can you find it?

http://teamico.wikia.com/wiki/Graphics_and_post-processing_effects_used_in_Shadow_of_the_Colossus

here it is

 

[chertipros]

http://teamico.wikia.com/wiki/Graphics_and_post-processing_effects_used_in_Shadow_of_the_Colossus

here it is

Get it here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1625351/making_of_sotc.pdf

thanks!

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

Just think how much more detail they could have added if it had backface culling.

 

[Ardenyal]

That looks like a lot of work just for shadows, mixing shadows painted on textures and vertex lighting.

 

[Zoramon089]

That looks like a lot of work just for shadows, mixing shadows painted on textures and vertex lighting.

Probably depends on how much you can rotate the camera in that area

 

[CaptNfantasy]

While everyones in a jolly Wind Waker mood, other than the graphics, i have to say the music was just as exceptional if not more. I think tracks like this one prove that non melodic based game music can be as classic as the melody driven OSTs of the 8 and 16bit days. Or at least be as well made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROT3tJ11LSg

 

[Keikaku]

That looks like a lot of work just for shadows, mixing shadows painted on textures and vertex lighting.

Texture shadowing doesn't cost anything on top of the textures themselves and, from my understanding, vertex lighting is pretty cheap too. All in all, it's a very reasonable way to achieve the look.

While everyones in a jolly Wind Waker mood, other than the graphics, i have to say the music was just as exceptional if not more. I think tracks like this one prove that non melodic based game music can be as classic as the melody driven OSTs of the 8 and 16bit days. Or at least be as well made.

Dragon Roost Island, Outset Island and the Credits Theme were my favorites. Great soundtrack!

 

[RockmanWhore]

I replayed this game this summer, and it blows me away how good it looks even now in 2012. It's a gorgeous game, the art direction is phenomenal. It looks better than most PS360 games. Even if it's not in HD, the visuals are pretty crisp, and unlike most "HD games" there is some nice AA and the framerate is very stable. I hope that Nintendo won't forget that art-style, the DS Zelda games weren't that sexy, but imagine a game using this art style on Wii U or 3DS, it would be glorious!

 

[zoukka]

No other game has blown me away visually as much as WW did. They truly achieved something nobody else has never done.

 

[DonMigs85]

One thing I didn't like about the visuals is the weird vertical lines that appear against darker backgrounds or solid textures. The flaw also appears in Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword and Mario Sunshine. I suspect it's a quirk of the game engine or the GCN/Wii's dithered color output.

Best pic I found that illustrates the issue
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/9149/img2213m.jpg

 

[MNC]

the chris posted this in the funny pics thread , I think it goes well here.

love the lightning and smoke effects in the game.

God damn Wind Waker is so good. I must finish this game.

 

[Margalis]

Stuff like this is why when people say "Nintendo is going to have a hard time on next-gen systems because they don't understand modern tech" I always laugh.

Being able to do the kind of stuff Nintendo does on their systems mean understanding older tech AND modern tech.

 

[DonMigs85]

Stuff like this is why when people say "Nintendo is going to have a hard time on next-gen systems because they don't understand modern tech" I always laugh.

Being able to do the kind of stuff Nintendo does on their systems mean understanding older tech AND modern tech.

Yeah, nobody can beat Nintendo (and the Rare of old) when it came to extracting maximum performance from their hardware and squeezing games into limited storage.

 

[jonno394]

Yeah looks like i'm buying a memory card and replaying this on my Wii asap.

 

[Chev]

Wind Waker's water used tessellation? Holy shit. I didn't even know that existed back then.

Crash team Racing on PS1 used tesselation. It's not at all a recent technology, it's specific hardware dedicated to tesselation that's the relatively recent new thing.

 

[fabricated backlash]

How dare you!

The TEV does not support a shader model FFS! SM 2.0 is DX9!, the TEV is not even close to that level you fool!

MS did term "shader model" so they had a name for a fixed set of features hardware must support!

Just because some effects can be done on it (like DX7 hardware) DOES NOT mean the TEV has programmable shader pipelines or that it has anything to do with shader models!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You should probably calm down and stop with the insults.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Wind Waker U please.

 

[Dictator93]

http://teamico.wikia.com/wiki/Graphics_and_post-processing_effects_used_in_Shadow_of_the_Colossus

here it is

This blows my mind.

Proper per-object motion blur on the ps2. Just astonishing

 

[les papillons sexuels]

I need an HD remake for Wii U, Nintendo. Charge me $15. Charge me $60. Charge me $100. I don't care. I needs it.

The most beautiful game ever made. If any game ever deserved an HD remake, it's this one.

you could just use the dolphin emulator...

 

[mrklaw]

How dare you!

The TEV does not support a shader model FFS! SM 2.0 is DX9!, the TEV is not even close to that level you fool!

MS did term "shader model" so they had a name for a fixed set of features hardware must support!

Just because some effects can be done on it (like DX7 hardware) DOES NOT mean the TEV has programmable shader pipelines or that it has anything to do with shader models!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Equivalent to. Shader model type effects. Getting the same/similar end results doesn't mean you need exactly the same architectural approach. Calm down