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[DrGAKMAN]

Here I'll explain it to you, it's pretty simple (and I'm not trying to sound condescending, i was just confused as to what you were saying);

A pre-rendered background is like a picture. So imagine drawing a picture, putting it on the floor, then putting an army man on it's back and laying it on top of the picture, all the while you're viewing the picture standing up. So you can move the army man around (on his back, so it looks like he's standing up) against that picture. The army man can turn around, pivot, etc because he's in 3D, but the picture can't change perspective because it's only 2D. It's just a picture. If you were to lean to the left or change the perspective/angle of the piece of paper, it wouldn't work, the perspective would just get distorted.

Now imagine putting that army man in a doll house (heresy!). The doll house is a 3D environment- if you were to lean to the left or rotate the doll house, you'd see it in a 3D space, you could view the room the army man's in from any different angle.

That's the difference between 3D environments and pre-rendered backgrounds. Pre rendered backgrounds are basically just static pictures, often with a 3D character (and some 3D objects) moving around "on top of the picture". Thus a game like this would not work at all with pre-rendered backgrounds, since you could never change the perspective on the fly. Every single first person shooter basically has to be in 3D, since most pre-rendered backgrounds require a third person perspective so you can see your character move around on top of the picture (like Resident Evil or the playstation Final Fantasy games).

Does that explanation make sense?

Yeah I was wrong AND I said what I meant wrong. I think what I meant to say was that all the 3D environments looked better than the character models, like as if someone slapped a bunch of photos over the walls (backgrounds) and the objects (environments) therein. I realize what I'm describbing is basically texture mapping...but they just don't look like textures to me...they look semi-photo-realistic, especially when compared to the character models.

The envirnments/backgrounds look really good, like Baten Kaitos REmake good...only...in real-time 3D. Cube-Mapping FTW?

 

[Krowley]

my only problem with the rev is the idea that i have to sit in a chair like a normal person to play games :lol.. I'm usually laying on my side when i game and i'm pretty sure the rev won't work right from that perspective.. but i'll get used to it.

 

[blackadde]

imagine your looking in one direction and you toss a grenade in the other direction, or toss it over your back to get somebody behind you, or set it down on something and then run away... I'm not saying that's how it works in this game, but with the revmote, it is distinctly possible.

or just do what every game since half-life has done and vary distance with height. aim down the roll and aim high to throw far. it doesn't matter what direction you're focused on (since you mentioned behind, to the side, whatever) since all you have to do is flick your wrist there and back for a split-second.

 

[neo2046]

such an awesome photoshop gone to waste... :lol


neo, going from the photoshop i'm guessing this is being viewed as good news for rev at 2ch?

yes, from what I see is their response is also very positive
although lots of them have no interest to a FPS title,
they are surprised by Rev's visual quality and think the machine has a lot of potential

 

[Mejilan]

There seems to be a very common misconception about the Revmote. You won't have to wildly wave your arms about to fucking control the thing. It really should be more like a mouse, only not necessarily limited to a flat plane such as on a computer desk or mouse mat.

 

[imastalker co.]

the denial needs to stop

we have a new standard for fps, embrace it, and be happy about it. FPS controls will only become better because of it.

 

[Chris Remo]

There seems to be a very common misconception about the Revmote. You won't have to wildly wave your arms about to fucking control the thing. It really should be more like a mouse, only not necessarily limited to a flat plane such as on a computer desk or mouse mat.

This has been stated in so many previews that it blows my mind people still aren't aware of it.

 

[Trident]

the denial needs to stop

we have a new standard for fps, embrace it, and be happy about it. FPS controls will only become better because of it.

needs more varying meters

 

[metropolis]

looks like a lot of fun to play.

 

[PkunkFury]

You could have two meters if you want. One meter pops up when you lighlty hold the analog trigger down that lets you measure how far you want to roll your grenade. Another meter could pop up when you hold the trigger down, again allowing you to judge the distance of your grenade trhow.

Still, if you want to throw multiple grenades, you'd have to charge up the meter each time..

 

[imastalker co.]

maybe you're right

 

[Chrono]

yes, from what I see is their response is also very positive
although lots of them have no interest to a FPS title,
they are surprised by Rev's visual quality and think the machine has a lot of potential

cool! i guess ign's gcn turbo stories made it all the way to japanese forums. :lol

 

[Mejilan]

I mean, does anyway freaking move their entire upper body when trying to turn in a racing game using a traditional controller?

I imagine we all kicked that in our early years, if it were ever an issue. If I see people gesticulating crazily at demo kiosks in a few months, I'll kick 'em in the nards. :/

 

[PkunkFury]

my only problem with the rev is the idea that i have to sit in a chair like a normal person to play games :lol.. I'm usually laying on my side when i game and i'm pretty sure the rev won't work right from that perspective.. but i'll get used to it.

On the other hand you'll be able to play some slower paced games lazily with one hand, while holding a beer or a sandwich in the other

 

[Speevy]

we have a new standard for fps, embrace it, and be happy about it. FPS controls will only become better because of it.
Today 07:19 AM

I guess actually playing games from the genre will be our consolation?

 

[imastalker co.]

so, anyone expecting grenade controls for throwing pikmin? perhaps they'll just do a point & click thing instead.

 

[Mejilan]

On the other hand you'll be able to play some slower paced games lazily with one hand, while holding a beer or a sandwich in the other

Speaking of which. How long until pirate companies start releasing Revmote-compatible "interactive" porn DVDs for the Revo.

 

[Krowley]

or just do what every game since half-life has done and vary distance with height. aim down the roll and aim high to throw far. it doesn't matter what direction you're focused on (since you mentioned behind, to the side, whatever) since all you have to do is flick your wrist there and back for a split-second.

but that is a big difference... that is a whole other level of buffer between the player and the game. before, i pressed a button to hurl a grenade, now i will suddenly be able to toss a grenade in the same way i would toss one in real life. now i have totally, analog grenade tossing, with full 360 degrees of movement sensitivity.

Yes you can do all that in other fps games, but it did require a flick of the wrist and a change of perspective and it doesn't feel direct in the same way as this could and it is naturaly less precise.

 

[Link]

I'm glad all the people who were showing uncharacteristic excitement have converted back to their usual skepticism and downplaying. I was getting worried there for a little while.

 

[Chris Remo]

so, anyone expecting grenade controls for throwing pikmin? perhaps they'll just do a point & click thing instead.

Please, don't even bring up Pikmin. All I want--basically in my entire life--is a new Pikmin game, and being reminded of it and knowing that I won't get to play it for months (or, GOD FORBID, years) makes me weep. If they have the multiplayer from Pikmin 2 and it's playable online... Man, that thing could be controlled with seven bongo attachments, a microphone, and a fucking EyeToy and I would be there on day one.

 

[Mike Works]

You could have two meters if you want. One meter pops up when you lighlty hold the analog trigger down that lets you measure how far you want to roll your grenade. Another meter could pop up when you hold the trigger down, again allowing you to judge the distance of your grenade trhow.

So you're saying that clicking the trigger button- making sure not to hold it down which would thus negate the style you wish to throw it- and then watching a fucking golf swing type meter would be preferable to flicking the controller? Honestly?

Just curious... how many shooters- first person or otherwise- have employed this control scheme over the past decade?

Here's what's funny about this discussion.

Revolution buyers are disenchanted and/or daunted by traditional gameplay.

The Xbox 360 has a great controller, which combines what's been great about traditional game controllers over the years.

One does not negate the other. And if you think it does, you're going to be in for a shock as next generation unfolds.

The pointer does not negate the option of aiming with an analog stick, but it sure as hell does trump it. I think a lot of Revolution potential buyers are interested in the console mainly for the potential innovation it's going to bring to the console arena, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think it's a much better option than being the third best console in the same line of consoles. I know it all comes down to personal preference, but I'd rather have one (or two) powerful traditional consoles and one unique one that offers completely different gameplay.

Kind of like having half of your gaming library containing games like San Andreas, Halo 2, and Zelda, and then the other half containing games like Guitar Heroes, Donkey Konga, and Samba de Amigo. Diversity is a really good thing, and the Revolution is certainly offering that in many ways.

Since the only Revolution game we have to talk about is a first person shooter, obviously the revmote's advantages when it comes to the FPS is going to direct the traffic of discussion in terms of comparing controllers to favor the revmote- since by all accounts it should be a superior alternative to the xbox360 and the (current) Dual Banana 3. Now if the first game revealed was, say, a Mario platformer, and control specifics weren't released, then I think you'd see less comparing of control preference (keyboard vs controller vs revmote), considering few people know how exactly a natural platformer would play using the device. Since the Game Informer article detailed control specifics and were incredibly favorable for logical reasons, you're going to see people declaring that the revmote should be the superior controller for FPS's for that very reason.

The idea of waving my arms around while playing videogames remains deeply unappealing to me. Coupled with the fact that I can't due to carpel tunnel....

....and not to mention your avatar! That sucker's gonna make picking up the Revolution controller and giving it an honest shot even harder to pull off!

the denial needs to stop

we have a new standard for fps, embrace it, and be happy about it. FPS controls will only become better because of it.

Don't fucking go declaring this shit when you haven't even used the fucking thing. Go take some more pictures of yourself shitting on the pot if you're going to be making stupid posts like this.

The denial needs to stop, jesus christ.

 

[Krowley]

so, anyone expecting grenade controls for throwing pikmin? perhaps they'll just do a point & click thing instead.

:lol that just gave me an idea. Pikmin from the first person!!!

but no actually, i think the next pikmin will probably play a little more like a traditional RTS game.

 

[BorkBork]

I'm not arguing that the pointer is not better. I'm saying the analog stick is not bad. At least the X360 one is not.

I still don't know why you're debating it. Yes, the x360 pad is one of the, if not THE best dual analog method for playing FPS's. Don't think anyone is arguing that is not. However, it is still inferior to the Keyboard and mouse/Pointer from all indications.

 

[blackadde]

Yes you can do all that in other fps games, but it did require a flick of the wrist and a change of perspective and it doesn't feel direct in the same way as this could and it is naturaly less precise.

who cares if it's abstracted rather than realistic? it's faster, just as accurate, and doesn't require you to flail around (assuming you are actually 'throwing' the thing). boot up team fortress classic or cs and see how long it takes you to nail grenade distances - ten minutes max.

 

[Error]

needs more varying meters

:lol :lol

 

[DrGAKMAN]

This is gaming history in the making kids.

This isn't about how WE as "gamers" think of this new interface, it's how casuals (who greatly outnumber us) and non-gamers view it...and I think they're gonna view it as magical. You can piss'n'moan about traditional controls and how it can do anything this new controller could do, but you're in denial if you can't see that "normal" people will view this as better/easier/more approachable than our traditional methods.

 

[imastalker co.]

Don't fucking go declaring this shit when you haven't even used the fucking thing.

i tell you what, hands-on impressions aside, based on what you know, which one do you think is the best/will be the standard?

yeah that's right, show off the fact that you're a member of the club

 

[Mrbob]

So you're saying that clicking the trigger button- making sure not to hold it down which would thus negate the style you wish to throw it- and then watching a fucking golf swing type meter would be preferable to flicking the controller? Honestly?

Just curious... how many shooters- first person or otherwise- have employed this control scheme over the past decade?



.

Halo and Halo 2 allow you to adjust the distance of a grenade toss with the sensitive of the analog trigger.

GRAW has a meter with the left analog trigger where when you lightly hold it down it rolls the grenade to varying degrees, and if you hold it down longer your character will toss the grenade at varying distances. It works extremely well, and you can do it with one button depression and not have to worry about two seperate ones.

his is gaming history in the making kids.

This isn't about how WE as "gamers" think of this new interface, it's how casuals (who greatly outnumber us) and non-gamers view it...and I think they're gonna view it as magical. You can piss'n'moan about traditional controls and how it can do anything this new controller could do, but you're in denial if you can't see that "normal" people will view this as better/easier/more approachable than our traditional methods.

I dunno, I think they are more about the games and less politics than GAF. They will flock to the system with the best fps *games*. Which will more than likely be the biggest FPS game of next gen, Halo 3, will be on Xbox 360. Or the system which will have a fps game (Call of Duty 2) sell over a million copies before the Rev or PS3 is out in any territory. This has a trickle down effect for other games too and helps push the system as the standard for fps gaming. It isn't so cut and dry just to offer a remote. If the revmote becomes the standard, I'll roll with it. But I don't think Rev will be the standard for FPS games.

 

[PkunkFury]

who cares if it's abstracted rather than realistic? it's faster, just as accurate, and doesn't require you to flail around (assuming you are actually 'throwing' the thing). boot up team fortress classic or cs and see how long it takes you to nail grenade distances - ten minutes max.

well, the remote could be set up to throw grenades that way as well, at least we have options...

plus flailing around isn't likely necessary, for lobbing a grenade it probably measures the orientation of the controller from a starting point to an ending point, meaning you could spin it in your hand or flick it with your wrist, not much different than using a mouse, except it's giving three dimensional data, which would be helpful for a throw

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I'm sad this is not from a website like 1up or IGN so we can see high res screens

 

[Chris Remo]

i tell you what, hands-on impressions aside, based on what you know, which one do you think is the best/will be the standard?

yeah that's right, show off the fact that you're a member of the club

There isn't going to be a standard, because Revolution will be the only console to use that method. Speaking as a lifelong PC gamer (long before I even considered touching a console FPS), I do believe that Revolution's controller will offer better control for first person shooters than game pads do. That said, I'll still buy Halo 3.

 

[Mike Works]

who cares if it's abstracted rather than realistic? it's faster, just as accurate, and doesn't require you to flail around

Pick up your mouse right now. Just pick it up. Hold it with three fingers under the mouse, your thumb on top of it, and your index finger on the side. Just hold it a foot above your keyboard or your lap.

Now move it up three inches by moving nothing but your wrist. Move it in a circle using nothing but your forearm.

Are you "flailing around"? No? Good, you're not 100% fully fucking retarded, and should be able to eventually comprehend how using the Revolution remove will not require you to move around like an orangutang on ecstacy walking like an egyptian.

Spoiler

if you answered 'Yes' to the flailing around question, then i think you might be 100% retarded, but the good news is you'd probably be so retarded you wouldn't be able to figure out how to hilight this text, so i can just say anything about you i want and you'll never know

 

[blackadde]

Pick up your mouse right now. Just pick it up. Hold it with three fingers under the mouse, your thumb on top of it, and your index finger on the side. Just hold it a foot above your keyboard or your lap.

Now move it up three inches by moving nothing but your wrist. Move it in a circle using nothing but your forearm.

Are you "flailing around"? No? Good, you're not 100% fully fucking retarded, and should be able to eventually comprehend how using the Revolution remove will not require you to move around like an orangutang on ecstacy walking like an egyptian.

Spoiler

if you answered 'Yes' to the flailing around question, then i think you might be 100% retarded, but the good news is you'd probably be so retarded you wouldn't be able to figure out how to hilight this text, so i can just say anything about you i want and you'll never know

hey.
asshole.

(assuming you are actually 'throwing' the thing)

i have no idea what kind of sensitivity settings these games are going to have.

 

[imastalker co.]

There isn't going to be a standard, because Revolution will be the only console to use that method.

you know what i mean. consoles don't use keyboard/mouse, yet we can all agree that it's the standard when it comes to the genre.

 

[Krowley]

who cares if it's abstracted rather than realistic? it's faster, just as accurate, and doesn't require you to flail around (assuming you are actually 'throwing' the thing). boot up team fortress classic or cs and see how long it takes you to nail grenade distances - ten minutes max.

:lol dude, i can nail grenade distance right now... i'm a nintendo fan, but i have not been living in a closet. Pc fps games are no mystery to me...

it's not a question of what you can do, it's how you do it.. control is always evolving towards more direct methods. Rev is the first step towards something that tries to approximate VR. it's definitly progress, because it allows for the most direct method of control ever seen on a home console.

I bet you that when you get a chance to toss a grenade in this game, you will instantly recognize that it's simply more fun to toss grenades with a tossing motion than it is to press a button. it's gonna be fun on a very simple, gut, level... like making mario slide down hills in mario 64. Instant novelty fun, and that's worth something... gamers are so used to everything now that we don't get that instant rush of fun from a new way of interacting. this controller could provide that.

 

[elostyle]

Hey guys I'm with you on the whole playing guitar hero with a dual shock pad thing. So much better.

 

[Chris Remo]

you know what i mean. consoles don't use keyboard/mouse, yet we can all agree that it's the standard when it comes to the genre.

Nah, I agree it's the best, but it's no longer the standard. By standard, I think of a publisher thinking "We're making an FPS, it has to go on that platform, that's the standard" but more and more PC FPS developers are going multiplatform (or developing console exclusive titles) because they can't resist the userbase consoles have over PCs.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

I don't think Rev will be the standard for FPS games.

fear

 

[imastalker co.]

and denial.

 

[elostyle]

For anybody still having trouble visualizing how this can not be on rails - think of an rts where you scroll around when you reach the edge of the screen. Make that scrolling analog depending on how close you are to the edge.

This way you can have direct aiming but can also rotate the view relatively around 360° without turning around yourself.

 

[Speevy]

You guys are really starting to creep me out.

 

[elostyle]

You guys are really starting to creep me out.

And you are trying way to hard.

 

[Mike Works]

i tell you what, hands-on impressions aside, based on what you know, which one do you think is the best/will be the standard?

yeah that's right, show off the fact that you're a member of the club

I think the Revolution control scheme will be the superior alternative to the standing console controller, but I don't go around making bolded posts telling people to stop being in denial when I haven't even held the fucking thing or even seen it in action.

Halo and Halo 2 allow you to adjust the distance of a grenade toss with the sensitive of the analog trigger.

How do you roll it in Halo and Halo 2, I think I missed that part in the instruction booklet.

GRAW has a meter with the left analog trigger where when you lightly hold it down it rolls the grenade to varying degrees, and if you hold it down longer your character will toss the grenade at varying distances. It works extremely well, and you can do it with one button depression and not have to worry about two seperate ones.

I've never played GRAW (I have played Ghost Recon 1 and 2 on the XBox), so I can't comment on how well that works. Does it use the same meter system you proposed?

I dunno, I think they are more about the games and less politics than GAF. They will flock to the system with the best fps *games*. Which will more than likely be the biggest FPS game of next gen, Halo 3, will be on Xbox 360. This has a trickle down effect for other games too and helps push the system as the standard for fps gaming. It isn't so cut and dry just to offer a remote. If the revmote becomes the standard, I'll roll with it. But I don't think Rev will be the standard for FPS games.

You make an acceptable point about gamers of a specific genre flocking to the system which has the most superior game in the genre (Halo and subsequently Halo 2 last generation), but the comparison is somewhat flawed in that area. The GameCube was a complete non-factor when it came to FPS games last generation. The PS2 had a few good ones (Killzone, which was hyped to high heaven but turned out flawed and Black which wasn't exclusive), but it was obvious that from the start with Halo, XBox was going to be the console first person machine.

The thing is, I'm willing to bet that the Revolution will be the first person machine for the new generation, since the controller practically forces the average developer to at least consider it. Perfect Dark Zero was a good game, not great, that failed to live up the hype. Halo 3 is Microsoft's flagship title and will bring in a LOT of consumers. There are also a bunch of other FPS's slated for the system. Sony's looking like they're positioning themselves to be more of a FPS console than the PS2 was, but I still don't think they'll reach Microsoft's level.

However, I think Nintendo will, and will pass it.

Lets say Nintendo's standard controller turned out to be a steering wheel. One could state that the PS3 (or XBox 360) should be the leader in racing sims because of Gran Turismo 4 (PGR3) and all of the other racing games which will be sequels to games we saw on the previous console (Forza, Rallisport, etc).

But with Nintendo making their universal controller a steering wheel, there's going to be a much larger market for driving sims now, since when people see the new controller, they'll immediately associate it with that genre, and developers will pick up on that.

It's the same with the revmote. When people see other people pointing it at the screen and pressing the B button, what are they going to initially think? Lightgun. Obviously the controller is much more intuitive than that, but that's the initial impression that EVERYONE had, and it just so happens that the controller is going to conform best (comparitively) to first person shooters, lightgun games, and RTS'.

The 360 could definitely be the place for first person shooters, especially considering how kind and important the genre was to the original XBox. However there is absolutely nothing foolish in thinking the Revolution will be the new console standard in that department, despite Halo 3.

You guys are really starting to creep me out.

You're the one who referred to Microsoft as "we", buddy boy.

 

[Speevy]

And you are trying way to hard.

Not you. The "fear" and "denial" twins.

 

[etiolate]

You guys jerk off all the time and yet you're worried about a little flailing?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Well i don't know... 20 launch games for rev and supposedly most of them aren't nintendo games, plus this game is an FPS.

The launch titles thing doesn't seem particularly striking to me one way or the other. Going by GameRankings, these were the GameCube titles of 2001. If Revolution's launch is ~20 titles with ~1/3 of them by Nintendo, it would mean slightly less third party content. Very few of those third party titles were exclusive, but Rogue Leader and Super Monkey Ball are notable.


4 1st party
----
Luigi's Mansion
Pikmin
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Wave Race: Blue Storm

16 3rd party
----
All-Star Baseball 2002
Batman: Vengeance
Crazy Taxi
Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 2
Disney's Tarzan Untamed
Extreme-G 3
FIFA 2002
Madden 2002
NFL Quarterback Club 2002
NHL Hitz 20-02
Rogue Leader
Simpsons Road Rage
SSX Tricky
Super Monkey Ball
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3
Universal Studios Theme Parks Adventure

That's true, but isn't the most important part of any next gen battle going to be the early part, when systems build their initial install base?

Sales tend to be bigger past the first year, but yeah, the early market share will definitely influence later purchases.

I wonder how they are going to make videos of Revolution games, they need to show someone playing to actually show how the game is played having a video of the game only will be pretty fucking boring.

Right to begin with we'll be interested in that, but I doubt there'd be much confusion. We see a video of Red Steel with the on-screen hand doing certain things, we can imagine that the real hand is doing something similar.

How many games did Ubi Soft develop from the ground up specifically for the GameCube??

Charlie's Angels, the game that gets 24% on GameRankings, was exclusive. Though an unreviewed PS2 version also shows up, so I guess it was originally multiplatform.

hello, i was on broadband and then i got banned. So broadband is up here, it's just that the only provider banned me!

Considered anything like HughesNet (new name for Direcway)? Pretty ass for most online games, but I don't imagine modem is getting you far in that department either.

It's already been stated that was added simply for immersion. You move your hand holding your weapon in real life, you move your hand holding your weapon in the game. That and some people will think it looks cool.

I'd disagree that it's just for that. Different types of movement will be important for different weapons. It would seem really weird if your hand motions were accurately replicated for the katana, but when holding a gun or grenade that was removed in favor of a steadier hand from another game.

Triggers that actually look like gun triggers.

I dunno, I'm assuming that's what he is thinking.

I've always thought the GameCube/nunchaku style shoulder buttons seemed more gun-trigger-like with their curviness than the hinged triangles of Dreamcast and Xbox controllers. Though revmote's B button is neither of those, but is much like the N64's Z button which we called a trigger.

 

[blackadde]

Instant novelty fun, and that's worth something... gamers are so used to everything now that we don't get that instant rush of fun from a new way of interacting. this controller could provide that.

i don't know man. i can see how it would be fun for a while ('whoa i totally bounced that thing off your goddamn head!'), but i'd only be worth sticking to if it gave an actual competitive advantage. i sort of see (hypothetically of course) flicking the revmote 90 degrees (vertical) and then quickly flicking it forward to toss overhead, and rotating -90 degrees (facing down) and flicking to roll, both of which require more time than just aim -> click.

 

[Mrbob]

You can't roll in Halo or Halo 2, just giving an example of how pressure sensitivity works. You can roll and throw in GRAW, like I mentioned with its meter setup, and it works extremely well.

As for FPS games, Nintendo is going to have to take the market away from MS. It is a huge uphill battle for them, as X360 is already establishing itself as the number one FPS console of choice. Call of Duty 2 on Xbox 360 is nearing one million sold in the USA, and has already sold over 1.5 million between USA and Europe. PDZ has sold over 800K between USA and Europe. Having the remote itself is not enough on its own. They need a list of compelling games to get gamers to switch from X360 to Revolution to play FPS games, and I don't see this happening.

 

[TTP]

Just woke up.
Don't want to go throu a+20 pages thread.
Someone link/post the important parts about this please?
Sorry for my laziness.

 

[xsarien]

Ummm... this screams fake. All magazines have a LIST of features on their cover, they dont just have one feature outlined. Also, the mag doesnt even give a page number for the rev stuff like they usually do on the cover.

Im calling it. Fake photoshop.

Once more, with feeling:
http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200604/N06.0407.1251.24078.htm