Support NeoGAF

[A Link to the Past]

At no point was it said that consumer products could not be criticized, so step way back with the strawman.

The point I'm making is that you're going to complain regardless of the reasoning presented before you because you have internally made up your mind that the Legend of Zelda series needs a Female Protagonist for reasons that are not aligned with the wishes of a private game developer who doesn't exist to fulfill your very specific whims.

Sorry I can't take the line of arguing in this thread seriously because the rumors were completely baseless and not at all anything to do with Nintendo's plans. I'm actually on the side of a lot of you who would find it cool to play as a female protag in Zelda (and I have a Samus avatar FFS) but I don't foolishly act like an entitled brat who was promised something. The absurd levels of angry demands and personal entitlement are embarrassing.

You do realize that until you show off a specific post of people being irrational, entitled, bratty, or any number of other ad hominems you've thrown around because video game discussions, it's a strawman argument, right?

If you are so unable to discuss this without making it about attacking other users, then I might suggest that you either try a little better or not try at all. This thread has enough people upset at each other because video game discussions. Really, there's nothing more frustrating than watching someone try to position themselves as being above all of the rabble while they make equally bad faith arguments (if not worse).

 

[Wedge7]

Ah, to be honest I'm pretty glad with that decision. I dont know where all this Female link stuff came from really, though I'm glad that the issue has been put to rest. Dont quite agree with the reasoning behind it, as it has definitely ruffled some feathers understandably. Just always think that Link is such an iconic character, dont necessarily want to see him become this interchangeable create a character.

I think it would be cool if they did make a game with Zelda, or allow you to control her during portions of the game though.

 

[Wavebossa]

Yep. Agree. I think their "excuse" ironically was because they didn't want to offend anyone by giving the simple answer: Link is male and mainline TLoZ games are about Link.

I'm 100% fine with that answer

 

[flatearthpandas]

How do you gender balance a triumvirate?

 

[Merc_]

lol that explanation is even dumber then the first. I know folks will still be mad anyway, but just say you don't want a female Link. It's much simpler then this dumb shit.

 

[A Link to the Past]

How do you gender balance a triumvirate?

Ganon - Male
Zelda - Female
Link - Male or female

Balance

 

[Mega]

"so step way back with the strawman."


"you're going to complain regardless of the reasoning presented before you because [insert strawman argument here]"

That's not a strawman...

What I said was an oversimplification of the general sentiments of many people in this thread. What he misattributed to my specific statement was an actual strawman (that one should never criticize consumer products), which I'm not responding to because it is not at all what I said.

You do realize that until you show off a specific post of people being irrational, entitled, bratty, or any number of other ad hominems you've thrown around because video game discussions, it's a strawman argument, right?

Sift through any of the past 30 pages. I'm not here to call out individuals like a bully.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

I dunno... he seems to shirtless alot in this game

Maybe that's why there couldn't be a female Link. Free the nipple.

 

[Breads]

Glad they didn't bow to the pressure. It's like all this "James Bond should be black/gay/female" bullshit. People looking for things to complain about.

Fine.

James Bond doesn't have to be a black gay female. That's, as you say, bullshit.

Instead of the 30th James Bond movie how about making a black gay female spy drama movie instead!

Oh right we don't get to have that either because there is a problem.

:e:

And it's impolite to address it apparently.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

This is just a theory of mine, but the issues of female link stem from the creation of Linkle in Hyrule Warrriors. In the past, all of Link's incarnations have been male. Linkle shows that every once in a while, the reincarnation can possibly switch genders. The problem is that Hyrule Warriors is that is is a side story and non-canon, so there is a fan response to have female link or link equivalent to show that it is canon and not a one off like Hyrule Warriors.

It is like having the FemMC in Persona 3. It was awesome when it was done, but the fact that they reverted back to a male lead had people clamoring for a choice, and it is falling on deaf ears right now.

 

[shadow2810]

1 man, 1 woman and ... 1 beast, Ganondorf is gender less.

 

[El Topo]

It seems pretty clear to me. As it stands the triforce is in balance, with one girl and two guys. If Link became a girl then there would be two girls and only one guy, which would be out of balance.

Two girls and one triforce?

 

[Spring-Loaded]

AI think it would be cool if they did make a game with Zelda, or allow you to control her during portions of the game though.

What would Link do when Zelda's the main character though? Paint his nails?

That's not a strawman...

What I said was an oversimplification of the general sentiments of many people in this thread. What he misattributed to my specific statement was an actual strawman (that one should never criticize consumer products), which I'm not responding to because it is not at all what I said.

And you attributed that oversimplification to him

something he didn't say

which is a strawman argument

 

[Enduin]

It seems pretty clear to me. As it stands the triforce is in balance, with one girl and two guys. If Link became a girl then there would be two girls and only one guy, which would be out of balance.

Not to defend it cause I think it's poor reasoning, but I think the balance he's talking about is mostly aimed at Link v Zelda not Ganon. So a balance of the fated Boy and Girl who will save the world together, which I think is fine. Hyrule Historia even talks about that dynamic. And personally it's a dynamic in the series I like, but that kind of falls apart when the stupid reasoning of not being OK with letting Link take a backseat while Zelda becomes the playable character kind of ruins that balance and dynamic. As they aren't equals.

 

[serenewarfare]

Every single explanation he's tried to give is just dumb. If your reason is "we made this game with a male protagonist because we wanted to", then just say that. All these other reasons just make you sound like idiots.

 

[Clear]

Nintendo are the epitome of small-"c" conservatism (i.e not in a political sense, just very cautious of and resistant to change), that they'd stick with the formula should surprise no-one.

 

[Wavebossa]

Maybe that's why there couldn't be a female Link. Free the nipple.

I think we're finally getting somewhere

 

[Tye The Czar]

For 2016, this honestly feels like a limp handwave. If they actually included more insightful lore about how sex(e.g. sacred masculine and feminine) is implemented into the game's myth, it might be easier to accept.

As a counter-example, from what little I've read in Eye of the World, they have a pretty decent justification of why Aes Sedai(basically mages) are primarily female.

In all honesty, it's still not a deal breaker.

 

[Not]

How do you gender balance a triumvirate?

Lol, you'd need a little nonbinary to pull it off. And if a female protag outta Nintendo's reach, no chance in hell we're getting an agender Ganon

 

[A Link to the Past]

That's not a strawman...

What I said was an oversimplification of the general sentiments of many people in this thread. What he misattributed to my specific statement was an actual strawman (that one should never criticize consumer products), which I'm not responding to because it is not at all what I said.

No, it kind of is. What you're doing is taking what you believe to be the argument and dumbing it down so much that it doesn't represent what anyone in this thread believes. You then begin yelling at these made-up arguments.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

lol that triforce answer is amazing

 

[psyfi]

These excuses are seriously garbage. I don't think Nintendo is inherently evil or anything, but a female Link would make a lot of fans happy. Plus it would be a nice move towards making their games even a little more diverse.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Ganon - Male
Zelda - Female
Link - Male or female

Balance

That's not how Triforce balance works, I'm an expert.

 

[zpiders]

Link has always been a male so don't really know what all the fuss is about. Its like wanting Samus to be male, its just weird.

 

[Darryl]

It seems pretty clear to me. As it stands the triforce is in balance, with one girl and two guys. If Link became a girl then there would be two girls and only one guy, which would be out of balance.

It's a boy, a girl, and a monster. It's a trinity.

 

[A Link to the Past]

This is just a theory of mine, but the issues of female link stem from the creation of Linkle in Hyrule Warrriors. In the past, all of Link's incarnations have been male. Linkle shows that every once in a while, the reincarnation can possibly switch genders. The problem is that Hyrule Warriors is that is is a side story and non-canon, so there is a fan response to have female link or link equivalent to show that it is canon and not a one off like Hyrule Warriors.

It is like having the FemMC in Persona 3. It was awesome when it was done, but the fact that they reverted back to a male lead had people clamoring for a choice, and it is falling on deaf ears right now.

Atlus is really weird wrt gender, yeah. The whole thing with SMT protagonists not being able to be female is just...

 

[Hypron]

I hope solid snake will be female in the next metal gear.

I also hope master chief is female in the next halo.

I hope drake will be female in the next uncharted.

I hope lara croft will be a guy with a whip in the next tomb raider

I hope optimus prime will be a dinosaur in the next transformers

That's a really dumb line of argument because those characters don't get re-incarnated as opposed to those in the LoZ series.

 

[Super Stardust]

Wow, first Alison Rapp and now this. Nintendo really hates women.

How does any of this mean Nintendo hates women? Link has and always will be a male, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Not]

Nintendo are the epitome of small-"c" conservatism (i.e not in a political sense, just very cautious of and resistant to change), that they'd stick with the formula should surprise no-one.

Well, at least in regards to genitals. Not tunics and game mechanics and series conventions and...

 

[fargofallout]

I think a female protagonist would be cool, but I also think they have the right to say "Link is male and that's all there is to it."

That being said, they should probably stop answering questions about it. Their answers are really dumb.

 

[Platy]

How do you gender balance a triumvirate?

So we have this next zelda works like Link to the Past or Twilight Princess.

Since link being a woman is too ridiculous, the next Zelda is set in a far past of Hyrule where the society is sexist AS SHIT so you start as Link, a boy and then you dicover THE LIGHT TEMPLE and then you win the PRISM OF REVOLUTION which you could use on rays of light to make the RAINBOW OF TRANSFORMATION !

With those rainbows you can turn Link into a girl or into a boy. Since the society is very sexist, places that Link would be seen as a treat now let Girl Link go without a problem because "pfff it is a girl what would she DO ?" and lots of other cool mechanics exploring the relations between genders as seen on a sexist society.

See ?

Link can't be a woman by default, so we do what they did with Link as a man :
Rabbit : Ok
Wolf : Ok
Drawing on the wall : Ok

So the only way to make link as a woman is to play by japanese sexist and zelda rules. And with that you balance the trimvirat. 2 women and 2 men

 

[Wavebossa]

That's not how Triforce balance works, I'm an expert.

Is it any easier than balancing the Force?

 

[Breads]

It's a boy, a girl, and a monster. It's a trinity.

Link has ended the lives of thousands and I'm sure he feels just as justified in his actions as Ganon and his.

We're all monsters to someone.

 

[Serenitynow]

How is the "What would Link do?" excuse trash?

Let's say Zelda was the main character. Would there no longer be a Hyrule Castle? If there was, who would inhabit it? Prince Link? Judging by Aonuma's comments, the concept of the triforce is really important to them. The one who goes on the quest must be courageous, and therefore possess the triforce of courage. Should Zelda now have the triforce of courage? Should Prince Link have the triforce of wisdom? Should Nintendo bow to fan pressure on the Internet and change their 30 year characters even though 90% of people who buy their games don't really care?

Is there any point to all this besides changing things just for the sake of changing them?

 

[A Link to the Past]

The "logic" behind his Triforce argument is about as sound as:

"We considered making Link female, but then we considered Octoroks, Tektites, and Boomerangs, and felt that it would mess with the balance."

How is the "What would Link do?" excuse trash?

Let's say Zelda was the main character. Would there no longer be a Hyrule Castle? If there was, who would inhabit it? Prince Link? Judging by Aonuma's comments, the concept of the triforce is really important to them. The one who goes on the quest must be courageous, and therefore possess the triforce of courage. Should Zelda now have the triforce of courage? Should Prince Link have the triforce of wisdom? Should Nintendo bow to fan pressure on the Internet and change their 30 year characters even though 90% of people who buy their games don't really care?

Is there any point to all this besides changing things just for the sake of changing them?

You pose this as a complicated issue and then respond with extremely simple issues

"Would there no longer be a Hyrule Castle" - there may or may not be, not relevant
"Who would inhabit it? Prince Link?" - Zelda could still be a Princess, and if she wasn't Link doesn't need to be a Prince
"The one who goes on a quest must be courageous" - All three Triforce holders show the traits of the Triforce. Link solves complicated puzzles, Zelda is wise, and Ganondorf is a schemer. Link goes into dangerous situations, Zelda risks her safety by disguising herself as Sheik, and Ganondorf fought against a more powerful kingdom and won. Link defeats the King of Evil, Zelda routinely shows great power, and Ganondorf is the most powerful in all of Hyrule.

 

[TheWorst]

Christ, that new excuse. Keep digging, Nintendo.

 

[Not]

Link has always been a male so don't really know what all the fuss is about. Its like wanting Samus to be male, its just weird.

Thanks for your contribution. We'll add it to the pile.

 

[Henkka]

That's a really dumb line of argument because those characters don't get re-incarnated as opposed to those in the LoZ series.

Plus, people in this thread seem to be talking mainly about playing Zelda, which is, you know, a girl in all her incarnations to this date.

There's no reincarnation in those franchises, true, but any of them could be rebooted with a female character.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

How does any of this mean Nintendo hates women? Link has and always will be a male, nothing wrong with that.

Did you see the terrible reasoning Aonuma gave for not having a Zelda-led adventure, and for not having a girl-Link option?

 

[ramparter]

Wow, first Alison Rapp and now this. Nintendo really hates women.

Bet Pewch is kidnapped in the next Mario...

 

[serenewarfare]

I think the idea of "Link is a male and will stay that way" is a fine position, but there's absolutely no real reason that they couldn't design the game in a way that allows you to play as Zelda. All the excuses for not doing that are BS.

 

[Davide]

Link has always been a male so don't really know what all the fuss is about. Its like wanting Samus to be male, its just weird.

Yup

 

[Captain Smoker]

Man, this discussion is a trainwreck, from beginning to start.

 

[The Silver]

There was a game with 4 Links, the Triforce was clearly unbalanced, I demand that those games be erased.

 

[Pau]

How is the "What would Link do?" excuse trash?

Let's say Zelda was the main character. Would there no longer be a Hyrule Castle? If there was, who would inhabit it? Prince Link? Judging by Aonuma's comments, the concept of the triforce is really important to them. The one who goes on the quest must be courageous, and therefore possess the triforce of courage. Should Zelda now have the triforce of courage? Should Prince Link have the triforce of wisdom? Should Nintendo bow to fan pressure on the Internet and change their 30 year characters even though 90% of people who buy their games don't really care?

Is there any point to all this besides changing things just for the sake of changing them?

But Zelda has gone in her own quests before (outside of Hyrule Castle even) and Link still held the triforce of Courage...

 

[Basketball]

Wow, first Alison Rapp and now this. Nintendo really hates women.

 

[Quintin DM]

The answer is dumb but honestly I don't really care if there is no female Link. Would it have been cool? Sure, but it's certainly not the end of the world that there isn't one, and the melt down some people seem to be having is a little silly I think.

 

[FSLink]

However, instead of entertaining the idea of the player being able to choose the hero Link's gender, Aonuma said his team considered what they deemed to be the simplest option; making princess Zelda the lead character. "We thought about it," said Aonuma, "and decided that if we're going to have a female protagonist it's simpler to have Princess Zelda as the main character."

This sounds reasonable...

This idea was ultimately rejected, because according to Aonuma "...if we have princess Zelda as the main character who fights, then what is Link going to do? Taking into account that, and also the idea of the balance of the Triforce, we thought it best to come back to this [original] makeup."

???????

Basically my reaction. They should have just said the first part and left it at that. The Triforce balance thing is a shitty excuse lol

 

[Alienous]

I think a female protagonist would be cool, but I also think they have the right to say "Link is male and that's all there is to it."

That being said, they should probably stop answering questions about it. Their answers are really dumb.

The issue is more the rationalisations than the in-game result. Their justifications are lousy and they should know it. They really need to ask themselves "why really?" because these excuses don't hold up.

 

[Wuthering_Heights]

How do you gender balance a triumvirate?

Make Link a hermaphrodite.

Boom, balance.