Reptars Revenge
Member
Just have a game in the fallen hero timeline where Zelda has to pick up the reins. I would love it.
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GameSpot: No Playable Female Character in new Zelda [UP: Additional Comments in OP]
- Thread starter maxcriden
- Start date
What do you mean with the bolded here? Every game in this list allows you to play as a female character. If you mean that outside of this list there's so many Nintendo games where you don't get a choice, I don't think that's really true (lately anyway).
The only big games from them with no real choice lately are, like, the latest Luigi's Mansion and recent Zelda titles (excluding ambiguous titles with Kirby, Yoshi, etc.). There may be more*, but that's about all I noticed when compiling the list, and that's just two series, that contrasts with the two series you mentioned with specific female leads (and by the way, Style Savvy has a character creator, but you can only be female, so you could argue that counts as well). And if we ever get a proper Metroid game again, that would be another fixed female lead.
P&DZ lets you choose your character's gender for the P&DZ side. I believe the Mario side just has you going through with Mario characters & enemies without really playing as anyone in particular.
I understand the grievance with male defaults, but I find it to be a nigh trivially small issue compared to the alternative of no options.
I also find the dismissal of Miis really unfair, as they're a hugely inclusive thing (in both gender and skin color) that is a core part of a lot of their games lately. They've been given their own series (Wii Sports, Nintendoland, etc.), wedged into established series (Mario Kart, Smash Bros., etc.), and in some cases have even taken over pre-existing series wholesale (Pilotwings, for instance).
*EDIT: Just recalled NSMBU as well, since the Toads are presumably male, though Nintendo has called them out as genderless, but that's also confusing if we're counting Treasure Tracker, so, uh, yeah.
No usually Wisdom, Courage and Power.
Wisdom = Zelda aka the smart one
Courage = Link aka the dumb one who is strong, persistant and resilient
power = Ganon the bad guy
If Zelda is the smart one and the Courageous one where does link fit in the story? He's just an Idiot who's only real skill is a worse version of what Zelda already does. It's like if they made Leia a Jedi in Star Wars. She's perfectly capable of being one, but if she was it would completely take any narative agency away from Luke (just like it does with Finn in The Force Awakens)
Lights and Waves
Member
That reasoning made this 100x worse. Really? What is Link going to do if Zelda is the main character? They can't possibly think of a single thing for Link to do?
A bit sad that it took 30 years for a company that wasn't even Nintendo to finally make Zelda a playable character.
A bit sad that it took 30 years for a company that wasn't even Nintendo to finally make Zelda a playable character.
That's what I'm trying to explain though. It's a 'The Legend of Zelda' game. These games are about a protagonist called Link (who is male, as established by its creator). If Zelda was the main protagonist, it would no longer be a TLoZ game.
I think that's what he's trying to say with the whole "what would Link be doing?" quote.
I think we could still see a game set in the same universe, but based around either Zelda or another female character.
Quoting my previous post, as I know someone will not read back and misunderstand the above:
GarthVaderUK
Banned
Without a balanced Triforce, the real world would implode.
A Link to the Past
Banned
This isn't something that we see at all from other developers usually, so how can it be a matter of putting them on the spot? Is Nintendo just managed by children?
I mean with all that said, it isn't exactly easy to take seriously an argument that also suggests that you shouldn't criticize consumer products. Sorry that you don't like people talking about things they don't like about a game. :v I should also recommend that you consider the irony of calling people irrational while a discussion about video games caused you to resort to ad hominems. You must work for Nintendo, because we're apparently forcing you to say very silly things.
Alright, I'll admit that the Triforce comment doesn't make any sense and might be the result of Aonuma feeling that women can't be courageous or something. That one I'll give as a possible sexist comment, assuming that nothing was lost in translation.
Nintendo could make this easy ny just making a Sheik game though.
Nintendo could make this easy ny just making a Sheik game though.
Prisoner KSC2-303
Member
Oh well. It would've been neat, but I can respect the creators' decisions, it's their work and they dictate what the fixed points of a character are. Whilst I wouldn't put gender as one for Link, I can undertand why others would.
Beyond the comments not being well explained, I don't really understand the outrage.
Beyond the comments not being well explained, I don't really understand the outrage.
Wuthering_Heights
Banned
Agreed.
It's their game, they can make what they want to. And they want to continue with what's already been established. Link is male. Buy it or don't, vote with your wallet.
mariosbrother
Member
I don't think that's their perspective. I think it's more female good / male good / evil. But however you want to frame it. This is how I frame it, based on all the games of the series - ganon has always stood for absolute evil, and you have zelda and link to balance that.
Valkyr1983
Banned
Zelda games have been made for what, 25 years?
all the ones I have played starred link as the MC and he's always been male
Why change what people like and have liked for 25 years?
If you want Nintendo to offer more diversity in its gaming lineup I'm all for that, make a new IP.
I don't know why people are insistent on messing with an existing IP if the developers THEMSELVES DONT WANT TO
I like link as a character and I also enjoy the damsel in distress trope in Zelda, it's always worked well
Gotdatmoney
Member
They made samus a woman 30 years ago as a cool break conventions moment. It was cool because the assumption was you were a guy til the end. I don't really think there was more to it than that originally because nothing in the original metroid gender wise was important. I think you're just reading into this.
And really, Nintendo isn't going to make Link female so it's totally irrelevant to me that this discussion is happening but Link being male is just the convention of the character they established. There is literally nothing about "direction" or anything of that nature for the series to go in. The character is established as male, that's just the history of him. Same way Mario or Pit are male, Rosalina is female, Kirby is male, or Donkey Kong is male and Dixie is female.
It's just asinine that their is some rage that Link isn't gender neutral. He was created male, his depiction as male is iconic, he's no different than basically any none story driven character having a gender.
Of course he would. But it wouldn't he a TLoZ game anymore. It would be a totally different game based in the same Universe.
Fair enough, I wont argue that as I can't point to a TLoZ game where Link wasn't the protagonist.
But I wasn't the one who brought up Zelda as a protagonist, Nintendo did. And then subsequently dismissed the idea with bad reasoning. They made it seem like the main hindrance behind a Zelda protag game was not anything you mentioned.
That's all I'm saying. They made this more of an issue than it had to be.
The original request/rumor wasn't even about a Zelda protag. Nintendo brought that up themselves (correct me if i'm wrong)
Alex_Mexico
Member
Save for the DS ones I havent played, name me one Aonuma directed Zelda where Zelda isnt at some point kidnapped. Even in WW where she was doing all sorts of shit she gets kidnapped once she's revealed to be the delicate Pricness Zelda and the only reason why she isnt kidnapped in MM is because she's not in the game at all.
I Stalk Alone
Member
I hope solid snake will be female in the next metal gear.
I also hope master chief is female in the next halo.
I hope drake will be female in the next uncharted.
I hope lara croft will be a guy with a whip in the next tomb raider
I hope optimus prime will be a dinosaur in the next transformers
I also hope master chief is female in the next halo.
I hope drake will be female in the next uncharted.
I hope lara croft will be a guy with a whip in the next tomb raider
I hope optimus prime will be a dinosaur in the next transformers
A Link to the Past
Banned
Why? Metal Gear has had multiple games where Snake wasn't the lead, and Snake had several games with him as the sole lead by that point.
Agreed, It should always be link as the male protagonist and Zelda has the female protangoist, I would love to see a Zelda game.
bobbychalkers
Member
That balance excuse is even worse.
ditto, that or have a timeline where the big conflict is that Zelda has to locate and protect a newly reincarnated infant Link from evil alongside a crippled Hyrulean empire from the last big conflict generations ago. Bam The Legend of Zelda: Birth of Courage. Just give me a writing credit, that idea is free.
I don't even know what's going on anymore. You genuinely think Aonuma thinks women aren't capable of having courage because of his Triforce comment? That's really the first place your mind jumps to?
I think I've had enough Internet for the day. This whole thread (which yeah, I know no one is forcing me to read), is putting a huge damper on how amazing Breath of the Wild actually looks. That people could be so negative on the game over such a petty issue is a huge bummer.
M0nochromatic
Member
It's clear they just don't feel comfortable with a Link being reincarnated as a woman, even if the internal logic of the series permits it. Reminds me of some of the attitutudes fans had towards Thor being written as a woman.
SatoAilDarko
Member
The Triforce comment is so utterly ridiculous considering Ganondorf is male and Impa originally was to be the third part of the Triforce with Link and Zelda.
Balance would have Link be male or female.
Aonuma is an idiot.
Balance would have Link be male or female.
Aonuma is an idiot.
He's a game designer, not a gender studies major. Also, from what I understand, Japan has a bit different culture regarding gender than the west. Do I think his reasoning is a little faulty? Sure, he could have stated it better (and not use fictional lore to base his claim).
Here's probably what he should have said: Link has always been male and he is a male this game. That might change in the future, whether female Link or playable Zelda, but not this game.
Here's probably what he should have said: Link has always been male and he is a male this game. That might change in the future, whether female Link or playable Zelda, but not this game.
We disagree. That's fine, I guess.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Can't speak for everyone, but I absolutely wouldn't be upset had he said that — I'd consider it a missed opportunity, but it wouldn't make me question whether Nintendo's afraid of having a girl-led Zelda game. He chose a bad response consisting of "what does the boy do if he's not the main character?" reasoning instead of being up front about it.
There's never a 100% perfect answer for it, but that doesn't mean you go all in with an illogical, super-questionable-in-a-lot-of-ways answer that shuts down all female lead possibilities in this game, and possibly future titles. If that's really his reasoning, then who's to say he won't come up with some more equally weak reasoning for never having Zelda be playable? That's the worrisome part, when someone who's making the decisions doesn't seem aware of what the issue is.
A Link to the Past
Banned
But based on what he has said, it's possible he doesn't even think that playable Zelda can be a thing in a main Zelda.
CambriaRising
Member
Lmao that new triforce excuse is even worse than what they said before.
Very sad to hear that they did look at this and even agreed with my desired route of Princess Zelda, but their reasoning for not going with it is very regrettable and nonsensical. Hopefully the fan response causes them to look at it again in the future and give it more serious thought and consideration. Zelda would make for a fantastic player character. If Link is sidelined that's OK.
Alex_Mexico
Member
So you're saying a Zelda game can't be driven by a female character unless said female dresses like a man? Because thats what you're saying and I cant blame you. Zelda was kicking ass as Sheik in OoT until 30 seconds into revealing that he in fact was a she (Zelda) and promptly got kidnapped. Why would we think a girl can be the main character in a Zelda game ever after all?
At no point was it said that consumer products could not be criticized, so step way back with the strawman.
The point I'm making is that you're going to complain regardless of the reasoning presented before you because you have internally made up your mind that the Legend of Zelda series needs a Female Protagonist for reasons that are not aligned with the wishes of a private game developer who doesn't exist to fulfill your very specific whims.
Sorry I can't take the line of arguing in this thread seriously because the rumors were completely baseless and not at all anything to do with Nintendo's plans. I'm actually on the side of a lot of you who would find it cool to play as a female protag in Zelda (and I have a Samus avatar FFS) but I don't foolishly act like an entitled brat who was promised something. The absurd levels of angry demands and personal entitlement are embarrassing.
WrenchNinja
Member
I didn't invent all those things I mentioned. All of those things are true, and they are responsible for it. You can keep on doing the damage control dance but it's not going to work.
But none of them was a woman. Check and mate, my friend. Check and mate.
Spring-Loaded
Member
"so step way back with the strawman."
"you're going to complain regardless of the reasoning presented before you because [insert strawman argument here]"
It seems like he doesn't actually have a good reason.
Well, besides it was too late to change it. But even that's ridiculous because we all first put it in his head back in 2014. So in the end he just doesn't want to freaking do it. He should up and say that.
He probably hasn't even thought that hard about it. Never even saw it as an issue worthy of his consideration. Whatever...
To be fair none of us have actually tried to balance a Triforce
Because people want to play as a female character.
Spring-Loaded
Member
I think it was Gabe Newell who said you can't pull one over the entire internet because the internet is scary smart
What does Aonuma know that GabeN doesn't?
Yep. Agree. I think their "excuse" ironically was because they didn't want to offend anyone by giving the simple answer: Link is male and mainline TLoZ games are about Link.