SolidSnakex
Member
GDGF said:
People have been complaining about shooters all generation and yet the're still going to continue to sell tons. There's a reason why they're so many of them, because they continue to sell like hot cakes.
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GameTrailers Best of E3 2010 Awards
- Thread starter The M.O.B
- Start date
People have been complaining about shooters all generation and yet the're still going to continue to sell tons. There's a reason why they're so many of them, because they continue to sell like hot cakes.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
Hurray for Kirby
Timekiller
Member
GarthVaderUK said:
Dedication Through Light
Member
RefigeKru said:
I think theyre getting at the idea that shooters are all starting to look alike
SolidSnakex said:
I've always posted how those people were nuts. But amazingly, this E3 really turned me off to the genre. It's still my favorite, but very few had appeal to me. Thankfully there was a thread with new info on Red Orchestra 2. That single-handily restored my faith. The problem really is this:
GarthVaderUK said:
SolidSnakex
Member
1-D_FTW said:
Do you really think those games look alike? KZ3 especially has a very unique look due to a variety of filters that Guerrilla uses.
At the end of the day it's still an incredibly popular genre. Just this year you have BC2, which managed to exceed EA's sales expectations in just 3 months.
I suppose people think the games look alike since the gun models are similar.
KZ2's guns are modelled from parts from real guns if I'm correct, and the scope attachment is the same as the one that's being used on the M4 in the Medal of Honour and MW2 picture. That and there's blood on the screen, lol i dunno
KZ2's guns are modelled from parts from real guns if I'm correct, and the scope attachment is the same as the one that's being used on the M4 in the Medal of Honour and MW2 picture. That and there's blood on the screen, lol i dunno
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I mean, it isn't that the idea of a shooter (first or third person) is inherently bad, Vanquish looks fucking rad.
But I couldn't be any less interested in Black Ops, KZ3, MoH, Gears 3 and the other billion linear set-piece driven snooze-fests. This year has, in general, really killed my interest in super-constricted linear games. It's not just shooters. I guess it's action games in general. God of War 3 and Dante's Inferno were the start of the downward slide for me. Dead Space 2, while I'd like to believe it has heaps of amazing content waiting to be played, had a piss-poor E3 showing in my eyes for that same reason. COD4 was the last game that actually did anything interesting with the formula, and even then it was mostly because of magic tricks and illusion, which can only really be pulled off once per generation (as in, once per major visual/tech leap).
I mean, I'm sure Platinum Games (Bayonetta, a linear action game = amazing game because of the systems in place) and Valve (and others, I'm sure, but this is all that's coming to mind) are going to slap me in the face with their new games and remind me about all the great things making a linear, super-directed action game enables, but as it is I'm far more interested in games that rely on systems or -- 2008-me would never believe this -- sandboxes. Bioshock 2 was so successful because of this. In that regard, Crysis 2 and Halo Reach are mildy more interesting to me, they allow for a more improvisatory play while still sticking to the forward-moving cutscene driven military shooter model, which I don't think is, in itself, inherently flawed.
Once a game's genre moves away from super-action, combat orientated stuff, I find myself being more lenient on linearity. I still like a good Zelda game, for instance. But that's because there's more to the game than the ONE ROOM the devs let me enter at a time. Yeesh.
But I couldn't be any less interested in Black Ops, KZ3, MoH, Gears 3 and the other billion linear set-piece driven snooze-fests. This year has, in general, really killed my interest in super-constricted linear games. It's not just shooters. I guess it's action games in general. God of War 3 and Dante's Inferno were the start of the downward slide for me. Dead Space 2, while I'd like to believe it has heaps of amazing content waiting to be played, had a piss-poor E3 showing in my eyes for that same reason. COD4 was the last game that actually did anything interesting with the formula, and even then it was mostly because of magic tricks and illusion, which can only really be pulled off once per generation (as in, once per major visual/tech leap).
I mean, I'm sure Platinum Games (Bayonetta, a linear action game = amazing game because of the systems in place) and Valve (and others, I'm sure, but this is all that's coming to mind) are going to slap me in the face with their new games and remind me about all the great things making a linear, super-directed action game enables, but as it is I'm far more interested in games that rely on systems or -- 2008-me would never believe this -- sandboxes. Bioshock 2 was so successful because of this. In that regard, Crysis 2 and Halo Reach are mildy more interesting to me, they allow for a more improvisatory play while still sticking to the forward-moving cutscene driven military shooter model, which I don't think is, in itself, inherently flawed.
Once a game's genre moves away from super-action, combat orientated stuff, I find myself being more lenient on linearity. I still like a good Zelda game, for instance. But that's because there's more to the game than the ONE ROOM the devs let me enter at a time. Yeesh.
Castle Doctrine
Member
Killzone 3 is looking to be a little brighter and colorful than Killzone 2, and I happen to like it's gritty, realistic look. It works for that game and immerses you into the atmosphere. We don't need every game to be a happy happy joy joy colorfest.
That said I do otherwise like colorful games better and sometimes that muted color look that games go for annoys me.
That said I do otherwise like colorful games better and sometimes that muted color look that games go for annoys me.
SolidSnakex said:
Not so much the look, but the gameplay. And in multi-player, every game seems to be chasing the mythical CoD userbase of 10 million sales. They're all adding that stupid +50, headshot, leveling crap now.
I don't do leveling. It's not in my DNA. Make a great game with cool tools and I'll create my own interest. That fact that you're gimping me and making me level up like I'm playing an MMO isn't happening. I don't play MMOs for a reason. I wish I could get on board, but I just can't stand it.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
1-D_FTW said:
1-D_FTW said:
1-D_FTW said:
1-D_FTW said:
1-D_FTW said:
1-D_FTW said:
1-D_FTW said:
ccol cool cools tools cool
SolidSnakex
Member
1-D_FTW said:
We don't really know anything about KZ3's multiplayer as they haven't shown or even talked about it. Now KZ3's single player is built around set pieces, and if that's something you consider to be like CoD, then I guess you can penalize it for that. But despite that set piece driven gameplay, it doesn't actually feel like CoD.
As pointed out, the only thing those images really have in common is the blood on the screen to indicate damage and the guns. But I think for some if you try to make a military shooter then you're trying to ripoff CoD. And it doesn't matter if your game doesn't actually play like it.
abstract alien
Member
I agree with you, but I'm thinking he just used a few poorly chosen words. I understand what he is saying by "art style"...but perhaps he could have said "visual distinction". We all get what he actually meant I believe.gerg said:
Those shooters all have art direction, the primary focus however is realism, it's not surprising they all look similar. I'm not defending them, I think it's completely boring.
The industry does seem to have an issue with stagnation, MW2 is not really any better than CoD2 was, and now lots of people are trying to reproduce it. But it's also the fault of the people who buy games, when MW is selling more than ten million units without breaking a sweat, and people who try new things aren't breaking even, no wonder developers are going to make the same thing.
This is why there are threads about JRPG fans moving to portable platforms, game production is so costly developers and publishers cannot afford to take gambles. First parties can do as they please of course, Kirby, LBP etc, but third parties have to make cash on their software, they can't write it off as platform enrichment or customer attraction.
I don't care about any of those three shooters, nor do I care to play Gears for the third time. Kirby looks very interesting however. Even something like Ni No Kuni, which I am pretty sure will be mediocre as a video game, I'm still very eager to play, because it at least is doing something visually very different.
The industry does seem to have an issue with stagnation, MW2 is not really any better than CoD2 was, and now lots of people are trying to reproduce it. But it's also the fault of the people who buy games, when MW is selling more than ten million units without breaking a sweat, and people who try new things aren't breaking even, no wonder developers are going to make the same thing.
This is why there are threads about JRPG fans moving to portable platforms, game production is so costly developers and publishers cannot afford to take gambles. First parties can do as they please of course, Kirby, LBP etc, but third parties have to make cash on their software, they can't write it off as platform enrichment or customer attraction.
I don't care about any of those three shooters, nor do I care to play Gears for the third time. Kirby looks very interesting however. Even something like Ni No Kuni, which I am pretty sure will be mediocre as a video game, I'm still very eager to play, because it at least is doing something visually very different.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
i think my personal disinterest in "shooters" has a lot to do with a dissatisfaction or disinterest with what i see as a reliance on pure mechanics and not understanding the importance of unique worlds, setting, and experience. in essence, i go into a game like COD4 and i'm instantly bored out of my skull by a scenario and setting which i feel i've experienced a billion times before, and--if i hadn't just given up on the genre wholesale outside the occasional exception--that i would continue to experience again and again, a veritable gaming sisyphus always pushing that boulder up the military conflict hill.
i guess if i picked up the game and said to myself, "wow, these guns feel amazing, i love the weight of this assault rifle, the a.i. is just top notch" then i might find something to enjoy in them. but as things stand, i'll take a conceit i find interesting with tons of great imagery that takes chances with less impressive mechanics over something that doesn't any day of the week. in other words, i think the ancel KING KONG game is about fifty times better than COD4, or any other military shooter.
"first person experience" will always be better than "first person shooter" for me.
i guess if i picked up the game and said to myself, "wow, these guns feel amazing, i love the weight of this assault rifle, the a.i. is just top notch" then i might find something to enjoy in them. but as things stand, i'll take a conceit i find interesting with tons of great imagery that takes chances with less impressive mechanics over something that doesn't any day of the week. in other words, i think the ancel KING KONG game is about fifty times better than COD4, or any other military shooter.
"first person experience" will always be better than "first person shooter" for me.
SolidSnakex said:
I don't take that picture literally is the difference I guess. It's more symbolic for me. And maybe the sensitivity for some people comes from KZ3 being involved. I would actually agree that KZ has a personality (whether you like it or not). If all games took that approach and wanted to have a distinct personality, I wouldn't feel the way I do about the direction of the genre.
abstract alien said:
Let me preface this post by saying that on reflection I have realised that I misread his post in the first place, so this may all be moot.
In any case, as has already been discussed, you can't turn to "most technologically advanced" game when discussing "best graphics" and still have something like Killzone 3 come out on top, as Crysis 2 (or a similarly advanced game) would always be the best.
That said, I personally feel that it is very hard to adequately compare titles as disparate as Kirby's Epic Yarn and, say, Killzone 3. Both those games have very different goals in mind; it's like comparing a Pixar film to The Silence of the Lambs.
That's why, as Stump has also mentioned, these lists are almost always served best as being read as "our most liked X" rather than some kind of objective comparison.
KZ3's inclusion is funny considering the general setting + antagonists (feels more appropriate than characters) aren't exactly the norm. That and KZ2 still gets shit for not controlling exactly like ---> Call of Duty!
Admittedly, MW2 and Medal of Honour look incredibly similar. I tend to overlook the visual similarities, especially if the games themselves are least aesthetically pleasing, which I think the two are. That and they're using actual guns so they're bound to be the same. But in terms of actual gameplay, they're almost completely similar.
So yeah, apart from that, M4s and blood.
Admittedly, MW2 and Medal of Honour look incredibly similar. I tend to overlook the visual similarities, especially if the games themselves are least aesthetically pleasing, which I think the two are. That and they're using actual guns so they're bound to be the same. But in terms of actual gameplay, they're almost completely similar.
So yeah, apart from that, M4s and blood.
That picture is more a metaphor for the nature of those games than anything I think. They basically use the same formula, you have a floating gun, in a vaguely realistic looking environment, and you run down these heavily scripted corridors of various dimensions for five or six hours, sometimes hitting buttons for generators, elevators etc, maybe you get a small vehicular section of some sort.
KZ2 is certainly a very different controlling game to CoD, the actual gameplay is quite different too, more cover, more shooting from the hip, more combat arena style set ups. But in a larger sense they use the same overarching game design. To me at least.
KZ2 is certainly a very different controlling game to CoD, the actual gameplay is quite different too, more cover, more shooting from the hip, more combat arena style set ups. But in a larger sense they use the same overarching game design. To me at least.
I hear people make the argument against shooters, but I wonder if the dev teams behind some of those games would make something in a different genre that you would care about anyway. You've got Halo, Gears, Killzone, CoD, and maybe BF. All shooters, but I'm sure most of us would say they respresent a different approach (design, feel, etc). Sure they may have similar themes in structure, but surely those games (taken alone) are a small subset of the genres, portfolios, of the entire industry. Its the mediocre to average clones that clog up the genre...but of the ones we view as "clones"...how many of those are developers that you'd be keeping an eye out for anyway? As tried and true, as the shooter genre is...they still struggle to make a decent one. What would they be making in its stead?
We say quit doing the same thing, but mostly everyone is doing the same thing...they just don't have as many competitors trying to emulate them. Konami still makes Dynasty Warriors with arguably the same basic setup. Capcom may have put DMC to bed with Onimusha, but they've made the fundamentals of SF a hundred times over (sped it up, slowed it down, added Marvel). Nintendo pushes out Mario, and while the levels are changed up, it still a Mario game...Zelda is still Zelda. Those aren't disses on those games, they're great (some of them lol).
I'd still argue that we're seeing a lot of diversity when looking at the industry as a whole. I wonder if people just want to see smaller dev groups get bigger budgets...or if they just long for other genres to get more attention (or hype) from consumers and the press.
We say quit doing the same thing, but mostly everyone is doing the same thing...they just don't have as many competitors trying to emulate them. Konami still makes Dynasty Warriors with arguably the same basic setup. Capcom may have put DMC to bed with Onimusha, but they've made the fundamentals of SF a hundred times over (sped it up, slowed it down, added Marvel). Nintendo pushes out Mario, and while the levels are changed up, it still a Mario game...Zelda is still Zelda. Those aren't disses on those games, they're great (some of them lol).
I'd still argue that we're seeing a lot of diversity when looking at the industry as a whole. I wonder if people just want to see smaller dev groups get bigger budgets...or if they just long for other genres to get more attention (or hype) from consumers and the press.
SolidSnakex
Member
Biggest Surprise
Gabe at Sony's conference
Kid Icarus Returns
3DS Works
Twisted Metal Returns
Xbox 360 Slim
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/biggest-surprise-best-of-e3/701154
Best 3D Graphics
Crysis 2
Gran Turismo 5
Killzone 3
Motorstorm Apocalypse
Star Fox 64
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/best-3d-best-of-e3/701158
Best FPS
Bulletstorm
Ghost Recon
Halo Reach
Killzone 3
Rage
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/best-first-person-best-of-e3/701156
Missing in Action
Batman: AA2
HL2: Episode 3
The Last Guardian
Milo and Kate
Vitality Sensor
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/missing-in-best-of-e3/701152
Gabe at Sony's conference
Kid Icarus Returns
3DS Works
Twisted Metal Returns
Xbox 360 Slim
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/biggest-surprise-best-of-e3/701154
Best 3D Graphics
Crysis 2
Gran Turismo 5
Killzone 3
Motorstorm Apocalypse
Star Fox 64
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/best-3d-best-of-e3/701158
Best FPS
Bulletstorm
Ghost Recon
Halo Reach
Killzone 3
Rage
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/best-first-person-best-of-e3/701156
Missing in Action
Batman: AA2
HL2: Episode 3
The Last Guardian
Milo and Kate
Vitality Sensor
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/missing-in-best-of-e3/701152
SolidSnakex
Member
DennisK4 said:
They go on to say that all the other features that the 3DS has is what put it over the top. But i'd still say that Gabe coming on stage at Sony's conference was the biggest surprise.
SolidSnakex
Member
RoboPlato said:
By 3D they mean games that have 3D support. It has nothing to do with the Kirby pick.
TLG I agree with for sure, however Versus XIII not even being in the running is odd. It was missing from a number of those 'things to look for at E3' lists too. I don't think the media cares about it.
The chance of Rage being better than Halo Reach is zero.
Gabe coming out on the Sony show was a far bigger surprise than a platform we've known about for ages.
Can't comment about 3D games of course.
The chance of Rage being better than Halo Reach is zero.
Gabe coming out on the Sony show was a far bigger surprise than a platform we've known about for ages.
Can't comment about 3D games of course.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think it's too ambiguous.
The staff sat down and voted for which one they thought looked best.
The best man won. Raise your glasses, my friends.
The staff sat down and voted for which one they thought looked best.
The best man won. Raise your glasses, my friends.
GregLombardi
Member
From Gametrailers comments as posted before:
:lol :lol :lol :lol
This is the best comment. Ever. It made me laugh out loud for a long time.
:lol :lol :lol :lol
This is the best comment. Ever. It made me laugh out loud for a long time.
Ikkarus said:
I don't see how that is a surprise. Despite not being officially announced, it's pretty obvious that Portal 2 will arrive on PS3. I say Twisted Metal and Kid Icarus were the much bigger surprise.
For the 3DS, it's not the hardware that surprises me (as it was not), it was the software support that made me say holy shit. I think everybody was screaming when Iwata announced big name after big name during his speech, as if he was reading out his grocery list.
"final fantasy, street fighter, professor layton, what's that? oh it's kingdom hearts and resident evil, also ridge racer, saint's row and dead or alive, oh let's throw in that game called metal gear solid too. we also have zelda, mario kart, starfox, but we are running out of time let's just post that news on our website"