Support NeoGAF

[PaulExcellent]

I forgot this was a game, mostly because I don't have the patience to wait for it.
Shit. Back to the top of my hype list. >.>

 

[Jobbs]

Moving the character behind the middle of the screen while running is a great move. It gives even more room to react to threats. Super Metroid also does this, IIRC.

A few things you may want to consider:

1. The camera shifting when merely turning the character seems a bit extreme. Repeatedly changing directions when engaged in a fast-paced encounter could cause the camera to spaz out a bit. It might be worth testing a less responsive camera when changing directions, instead initiating the camera shift when the character begins moving in the opposite direction. Example: Character is standing still, facing right. Character turns to the left -> Camera does not move. Character begins moving to the left -> Camera begins to shift. I think this would provide a more stable and consistent image, overall.

2. The speed of the actual camera shifts when changing direction looks a bit delayed. I noticed that, after the character changed direction near the end of the footage, they were still able to outrun the camera. Without speeding up the camera shifts to the point where they become jerky/jarring, some tightening up might be a good idea. For 2D action games/platformers in general, I would expect an initial camera shift (placing my character in the middle of the screen) immediately after changing directions and taking a very small number of steps forward, with a second shift (placing my character behind the middle of the screen) immediately occurring when I take a sufficient number of steps that imply I probably won't suddenly change directions.

Hope that helps, thanks.

edit - My post is simplifying camera mechanics a bit. I make it sound pretty restrictive when the camera should shift or not. I'm mainly basing my thoughts on the way Super Metroid handles its camera. It's very analog in that the number of steps taken in the opposite direction determine how much the camera shifts. For example, there is a very slight camera shift when Samus simply changes directions without moving. Regardless, "Direction change + small movement forward -> immediate character shift to middle of screen", followed by "Continued movement forward -> immediate character shift behind middle of screen", though simplified, should be good starting points for potential tweaks, if you feel inclined.

Thanks for the feedback, I didn't want to keep spamming this thread with my iterations, but since you commented on it I'll show this, which was my next iteration:

http://gfycat.com/InfamousSecretAsianlion

this time I refined it a bit after checking again to see how super metroid did it. Notice the camera does not jerk back if you merely turn around, you have to move to change the orientation of the camera, and dashing will move it forward faster so it will keep up if you move quickly.

That talk with the robot at the end was amazing. If that sort of encounter style appears elsewhere, I can't wait to explore the game and discover more moments like that.

If Ghost Song will be a Metroid clone, sign me up.

Thank you. There are a number of NPCs in the game, some are bit parts, others reoccur. A lot of the game is spent wandering quietly, so I'm not gonna tell you that there's wall to wall NPCs, but if you explore there are definitely NPCs to find, some of them more out of the way than others.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

If Ghost Song will be a Metroid clone, sign me up.

Agreed. If Nintendo aren't interested in doing any more I'm just glad someone's still carrying that torch.

 

[Kojirospath]

Edit: Allready portbegged once in the same thread, no reason to do it twice.

On a side note: I'm really looking forward to this game. The atmophere is great! I love the creepiness and loneliness. That was always what made Metroid great. Great job Jobbs!

 

[The Xtortionist]

Thanks for the feedback, I didn't want to keep spamming this thread with my iterations, but since you commented on it I'll show this, which was my next iteration:

http://gfycat.com/InfamousSecretAsianlion

this time I refined it a bit after checking again to see how super metroid did it. Notice the camera does not jerk back if you merely turn around, you have to move to change the orientation of the camera, and dashing will move it forward faster so it will keep up if you move quickly.

OK, that's definitely several steps in the right direction. Also, the iterations are fine by me

Right, the amount of camera shifting in SM depends on the distance Samus moves in the opposite direction. Your new gif seems much closer to that than before.

I don't know if this is intentional or not, but I actually love the bit of camera lag when the character dashes. Even though we're talking about tightening up the camera, using lag in that specific instance really helps sell the dash's effectiveness. Like, it's such a badass move that even the camera can't keep up with it. That's maybe something to think about. (edit - I'm talking about the lag between dashing and the camera moving to catch up. The actual movement speed of the camera looks fine.)

As always, it's cool to see iteration. Good luck.

 

[SpokkX]

I wish Sony would pick up on this. I want to play this on my Vita and ps4

Yes

I backed this, and it looks amazing, but i never play games on pc. Really hoping for a future ps4 port

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

This looks fantastic. Keep up the good work!

uhh requoting this because i've been banned for missing something like this before:

I can't believe you guys are port begging even in a thread like this. Knock it off.

 

[Arxisz]

Excellent work so far. looks top notch.

 

[Athreous]

Awesome!

 

[Dictator93]

Just want to say again how impressed I was with the video. Great tone and atmosphere.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Just want to say again how impressed I was with the video. Great tone and atmosphere.

Agreed; I've just finished watching it for the, I dunno, about the fifth time, and it's so awesome. I love the atmosphere, and the closing music is just perfect. I love the desolation in the music; the sense of otherworldliness and how it fits with the gameplay so perfectly. Who's doing the soundtrack again, and where can I listen to some of his or her previous work?

 

[Jobbs]

Agreed; I've just finished watching it for the, I dunno, about the fifth time, and it's so awesome. I love the atmosphere, and the closing music is just perfect. I love the desolation in the music; the sense of otherworldliness and how it fits with the gameplay so perfectly. Who's doing the soundtrack again, and where can I listen to some of his or her previous work?

Sorry, almost missed this. Music is by Roger "Rekcahdam" Hicks. http://www.rekcahdam.com/

Great programmer, composer, and also a beast drummer.

 

[Kojirospath]

This deserves a bump for greater exposure.

 

[Clott]

Now if I don't kill Adam, and give him what he wants, does that play things out differently later?

In such a desolate place I would want some company, even if the poor guy ain't right in the head.

 

[everyday math]

Minor bump! Ghost Song has been officially Greenlite! Congrats Matt

 

[AmethystEnd]

Missed this thread. I fucking love how this is shaping up. I want it so baaaaad.

 

[Jobbs]

thanks guys, sorry I missed those late bumps and didn't respond.

Now if I don't kill Adam, and give him what he wants, does that play things out differently later?

In such a desolate place I would want some company, even if the poor guy ain't right in the head.

I think the way it's presented to the player "come back when you have it!" it would be rather cheap if there was no way to give him what he wants, so yeah, there is a way to get by him peacefully. As you might have gathered, "dinner party" and "dish" and "guests" and so on are sort of a twisted version of what's really happening, Adam's mind was warped by decades of isolation and brain damage (there's a hole in his head, if you look closely).

I didn't want to bump the thread for this, but I went on a podcast recently and talked a lot about the game, as well as other games and the industry in general. And I am pretty sure I made a big fool of myself a few times, too. I got too loose. XD http://www.secondopiniongames.com/post/2753

 

[AmethystEnd]

thanks guys, sorry I missed those late bumps and didn't respond.



I think the way it's presented to the player "come back when you have it!" it would be rather cheap if there was no way to give him what he wants, so yeah, there is a way to get by him peacefully. As you might have gathered, "dinner party" and "dish" and "guests" and so on are sort of a twisted version of what's really happening, Adam's mind was warped by decades of isolation and brain damage (there's a hole in his head, if you look closely).

I didn't want to bump the thread for this, but I went on a podcast recently and talked a lot about the game, as well as other games and the industry in general. And I am pretty sure I made a big fool of myself a few times, too. I got too loose. XD http://www.secondopiniongames.com/post/2753

Good to know. I actually asked this question in the youtube comments since I hadn't seen this thread.

I'm 20 minutes into the podcast now. Loved the discussion about Unity and Stencyl as well as your freakout over slow moving bullets in past games.

I like the podcast host's enthusiasm about the game, but man I dunno about you, Jobbs, but when someone is complimenting me over and over in a short span of time I start to get uncomfortable (not that the game doesn't deserve it, of course).

Edit: I'd pay extra for a version of the game with all the voices still done by you, lol.

 

[lazer_bean]

this game looks great, I've been thinking so since the first time on saw it on GAF a while ago.

Sorry if this has been answered multiple times but when do you think this game will be released ?
Also I really hope my pc will be able to run Ghost Song (I only play on consoles usually), do we know the specs required for it ?

In any case, well done Jobbs, this is honestly a game I'm looking forward to as much as UC4 for example

 

[Jobbs]

I like the podcast host's enthusiasm about the game, but man I dunno about you, Jobbs, but when someone is complimenting me over and over in a short span of time I start to get uncomfortable (not that the game doesn't deserve it, of course).

It's nice to have people be enthusiastic about your game, if they go on a lot it can be a bit odd sometimes but it's really no big deal, there are definitely worse problems to have.

this game looks great, I've been thinking so since the first time on saw it on GAF a while ago.

Sorry if this has been answered multiple times but when do you think this game will be released ?
Also I really hope my pc will be able to run Ghost Song (I only play on consoles usually), do we know the specs required for it ?

In any case, well done Jobbs, this is honestly a game I'm looking forward to as much as UC4 for example

Aiming for late 2014 if at all possible, with a playable beta demo this summer (barring unforeseen problems) for beta backers.

I am hoping to get the game onto console(s), in terms of PC, as of right now it seems to run well on anything (within reason) that has a dedicated GPU. Low end laptops or anything using integrated video with no memory of its own seems to be a definite bottleneck in performance and it can cause a lot of choppiness.

 

[lazer_bean]

It's nice to have people be enthusiastic about your game, if they go on a lot it can be a bit odd sometimes but it's really no big deal, there are definitely worse problems to have.



Aiming for late 2014 if at all possible, with a playable beta demo this summer (barring unforeseen problems) for beta backers.

I am hoping to get the game onto console(s), in terms of PC, as of right now it seems to run well on anything (within reason) that has a dedicated GPU. Low end laptops or anything using integrated video with no memory of its own seems to be a definite bottleneck in performance and it can cause a lot of choppiness.

ok that'd be great if it can make it to consoles, otherwise I'll have to find a way

 

[rezn0r]

looking awesome, can't wait

 

[JDSN]

New gameplay video, I really hope it gets a WiiU version.

 

[Jaeger]

This is going to be incredible. Really pushing all my creative juices to do the projects I always wanted to do.

 

[Parakeetman]

New gameplay video, I really hope it gets a WiiU version.

That whole talking bit reminds me of the kinda off the wall dialog Demon Souls had. lol

Cool stuff dug the new vid thanks for posting it!

 

[OnPoint]

Still crazy excited for this game.

 

[JDSN]

That whole talking bit reminds me of the kinda off the wall dialog Demon Souls had. lol

Cool stuff dug the new vid thanks for posting it!

At the end of the day, the sound direction is what is rising this game above the rest and making it a legitimate thing to be excited about. This is gonna be on some people's lists when they talk about great Kickstarterd games.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Just watching the video now. Looks so damn good. The atmosphere is just amazing, and I love how nimble and agile the character is. I say this every time I comment, but I really hope Matt is able to bring this to the Vita.

 

[Messofanego]

New gameplay video, I really hope it gets a WiiU version.

Watching now, thanks!

 

[OverBlood 3]

Looks brilliant, glad I helped kickstart it.

 

[everyday math]

New gameplay video, I really hope it gets a WiiU version.

I love dashing

 

[Randam]

Really looking forward to this.

 

[Messofanego]

Eerie, good stuff. Nice needles section there. Already had it preordered, hope this is great.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

New gameplay video, I really hope it gets a WiiU version.

Intro song sounds like Explosions In The Sky.

 

[Haunted]

New gameplay video, I really hope it gets a WiiU version.

These are some excellent sound effects.

 

[JudgmentJay]

Looking really good. I'm glad I backed this at the $25 level for the soundtrack.

 

[Sir Walter Taffy]

Can't wait til I get home so I can watch the new footage! So far it has been worth the money I threw at it on kickstarter.

 

[Sword Familiar]

Glad to see my money is being put to good use. Keep up the good work, Jobbs! I look forward to playing this game.

 

[Bravocado]

I knew I wasn't going to regret Kickstarting this, but it's looking like the final game may exceed my expectations. Super excited.

 

[Fireblend]

I posted my thoughts over at the community thread:

This looks amazing. Some thoughts:

- I guess it's because of the lack of context, but it took me a while to figure out those hovering robots became friendly I did think the green energy they were "shooting" at you was kind of annoying. Like they mess with the sense of solitude and lonely exploration.

- Dat dashing effect. Beautiful.

- I want more british robots in my life.

- I want to play this at night, with all lights off and headphones on.

Can't wait. The only way this game could be made better would be a Vita version. I'd give my kidney to see it happen.

Also what do the numbers mean? :O

 

[Jobbs]

Thanks guys

At the end of the day, the sound direction is what is rising this game above the rest and making it a legitimate thing to be excited about. This is gonna be on some people's lists when they talk about great Kickstarterd games.

Oh, gee. no pressure. XD The music is by Roger Hicks -- a gifted composer/drummer/rapper/programmer I know.

Intro song sounds like Explosions In The Sky.

While Roger did all the other music you've heard so far, I did this part myself on my stratocaster. I needed something to fit the bill and didn't have time to pester Roger for it. That's how these things happen. XD

I posted my thoughts over at the community thread:

- I guess it's because of the lack of context, but it took me a while to figure out those hovering robots became friendly I did think the green energy they were "shooting" at you was kind of annoying. Like they mess with the sense of solitude and lonely exploration.

Also what do the numbers mean? :O

thanks for your comments. The little support bots will feed ammo to enemy bots, and will go on down the line until there are no enemy bots -- at which point it conveniently decides it should feed ammo to you instead. The idea is it gets a bit confused. This is relevant because it plays into decisions about how to fight, particularly as the enemy robots get nastier. They are much easier if you kill the support bots first, but, on the other hand, the support bot is one of the only ways to refill your special ammo between save stations.

If they annoy you, blow them up.

as far as the numbers, what fun would it be if there wasn't a little mystery in it?

 

[Fireblend]

The little support bots will feed ammo to enemy bots, and will go on down the line until there are no enemy bots -- at which point it conveniently decides it should feed ammo to you instead. The idea is it gets a bit confused. This is relevant because it plays into decisions about how to fight, particularly as the enemy robots get nastier. They are much easier if you kill the support bots first, but, on the other hand, the support bot is one of the only ways to refill your special ammo between save stations.

If they annoy you, blow them up.

I loved it when I realized I could blow them up also, initially I thought they were like permanent allies and would always follow you around, but then I noticed they didn't carry over to other screens, so that's good. What I was worried about was having them beeping annoyingly while cool, eery scenes like the one at the end of the video were occurring. That'd totally mess with that scene's tone

 

[DoktorEvil]

Jobbs, are you planning a Wii U release??

I'd be so down to pick up Ghost Song if I can play this on the Gamepad.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

While Roger did all the other music you've heard so far, I did this part myself on my stratocaster. I needed something to fit the bill and didn't have time to pester Roger for it. That's how these things happen. XD

Nice. Are you an EITS fan?

 

[Jobbs]

Jobbs, are you planning a Wii U release??

I'd be so down to pick up Ghost Song if I can play this on the Gamepad.

this depends on some technology stuff that I don't have direct control over. To wit, someone needs to make an Open FL Wii U exporter. I've heard things indicating that one is being worked on, but I'm not really supposed to talk about it. Suffice it to say, I don't know yet how this thing is going to play out and thus can't commit yet.

Nice. Are you an EITS fan?

I may be becoming one, but no, I wasn't really familiar with them beforehand.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Just watched the new vid!

Amazing work. Love the atmosphere!

The physics seem similar to the GBA Metroids as opposed to the more floaty Super Metroid.

I love the unique and moody style of the artwork and animation. Really sets it apart from the crowd. Voice Work is TOP NOTCH. Really cool stuff!

Obviously the other Audio aspects are amazing. Love the SE and Music

I particularly want to point out how awesome the various Visual effects are. Lots of color and variety.

My only true critque is that this variety doesn't seem quite as compelling in the environment and backgrounds. Platforms/walls/backgrounds have nice detail but are still pretty rigid and tile like. The details are nice but overly repeated and very dark.

I feel like that critique might be a tad harsh though. I guess I want a more Organic feel to the environment to promote the player to get more familiar with it. Something lacking in many 2D games of this type.

Your game tackles the issue better than most though for sure and I am not sure I am explaining myself really well here >.<

Love the game so far man!

 

[Jobbs]

Just watched the new vid!

Amazing work. Love the atmosphere!

The physics seem similar to the GBA Metroids as opposed to the more floaty Super Metroid.

I love the unique and moody style of the artwork and animation. Really sets it apart from the crowd. Voice Work is TOP NOTCH. Really cool stuff!

Obviously the other Audio aspects are amazing. Love the SE and Music

I particularly want to point out how awesome the various Visual effects are. Lots of color and variety.

My only true critque is that this variety doesn't seem quite as compelling in the environment and backgrounds. Platforms/walls/backgrounds have nice detail but are still pretty rigid and tile like. The details are nice but overly repeated and very dark.

I feel like that critique might be a tad harsh though. I guess I want a more Organic feel to the environment to promote the player to get more familiar with it. Something lacking in many 2D games of this type.

Your game tackles the issue better than most though for sure and I am not sure I am explaining myself really well here >.<

Love the game so far man!

thanks man.

and oof, every now and then someone says something that cuts to the bone -- when they point out something on their own that you're already insecure about. I really want more detailed, lush environments, and I do have that in some areas, but the map is so spacious -- and I am one person -- that it's one of the biggest challenges, getting the entire world populated with interesting environment art.

it's something I'll be working on more as time goes. I hope to improve it.

 

[DrROBschiz]

thanks man.

and oof, every now and then someone says something that cuts to the bone -- when they point out something on their own that you're already insecure about. I really want more detailed, lush environments, and I do have that in some areas, but the map is so spacious -- and I am one person -- that it's one of the biggest challenges, getting the entire world populated with interesting environment art.

it's something I'll be working on more as time goes. I hope to improve it.

Love the dedication and just so you know. Every single 2D game in this genre struggles with this (yes even Metroid) so don't take it too heavily.

(2D Background From Legend of Iya)

This is a recent example. I just happen to be drawn to 2D environments that obfuscate the underlying geometry to give the illusion of an actual realistic environment (not tiles) despite these games being inherently an unrealistic maze of floating platfroms etc..

This clearly takes ridiculous amounts of work and set piece art to achieve. I think what you have accomplished in Ghost Song is damn impressive regardless.

 

[Jobbs]

Love the dedication and just so you know. Every single 2D game in this genre struggles with this (yes even Metroid) so don't take it too heavily.

(2D Background From Legend of Iya)

This is a recent example. I just happen to be drawn to 2D environments that obfuscate the underlying geometry to give the illusion of an actual realistic environment (not tiles) despite these games being inherently an unrealistic maze of floating platfroms etc..

This clearly takes ridiculous amounts of work and set piece art to achieve. I think what you have accomplished in Ghost Song is damn impressive regardless.

I agree that Iya art is great. The challenge is, again, the volume. Doing a custom setpiece for one corridor of map, like about the size you see there in the Iya example, may take a while on its own. The thing is I have close to 200 rooms in the game. So it often becomes a matter of figuring out how to reuse the same pieces a lot for a given area while still keeping each room from looking too identical. To accomplish this I try to mix together more "custom" rooms in between more plain or generic rooms in order to keep it mixed up and give some sense of placement by looking at landmarks. Another thing I do is lay out a room with generic repeated art and then draw some custom stuff to drop on top of it to make it look a bit more unique and break up the monotony.

Dean was very good at this with Dust, he made a very lush and big world all on his own, and was really really clever with how he made and used his assets. So it's certainly possible to do. Now if only I were as good as Dean.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Looked good even if the aiming looked a little off. And I couldn't hear music so the video didn't have the same punch.