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[ashecitism]

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...resells-humble-bundle-games-reaps-profit.aspx

Services like Humble Bundle offer a pay-what-you-want service that is beneficial for developers, charities, and consumers. We’ve discovered that the PC games digital distributor 7 Entertainment and other sites are taking advantage of this generosity and obtaining Steam keys from Humble Bundles, or other similar services, and illegally reselling them for profit. We’ve investigated into the situation and reached out to some indie developers who have been affected by this practice.

The games being sold by 7 Entertainment (which owns Fast2Play, Kinguin, G2Play, and other sister sites) have been heavily marked down compared to their regular Steam price. Games like Red Shirt and Thomas was Alone usually sell for $19.99 and $9.99 on Steam, but are being offered on Fast2Play at $1.35 and $3.78, respectively.

Indie developer Ed Key, one of two people who created Proteus, has confirmed Fast2Play is reselling Steam keys from Humble Bundles. His process involved purchasing his game from Fast2Play’s store, and cross-checking his history of issued Steam keys. The copy that he purchased matched one sold through the Humble Indie Bundle 8 batch of games. Key said there is no way to know how they’re obtaining all the copies, but that it is possible Fast2Play is taking advantage of Humble Bundle’s pay-what-you-want approach to selling games by purchasing bundles at the minimum price Steam keys are offered at of $1. Proteus has since been removed from Fast2Play, but it was listed at $4.59 and can still be found on Kinguin, though it’s listed as out of stock.

Humble Bundle is aware of the situation and is in contact with some developers who have been affected. As of now, Humble Bundle has declined to comment on the situation. But, it implemented a system last November that allows customers to redeem games on Steam directly from purchased Humble Bundles, and added an option to gift games they already owned. Key says he hopes this has reduced the issue of reselling Steam keys, but is unsure if it has. Some games that have been featured in Humble Bundles since the new system (like Antichamber, Guacamelee: Gold Edition, and The Swapper) are listed on Fast2Play at a discounted price, but it is unclear where the codes originate from.

Other developers are worried the site will mislead fans of their work. Mitu Khandaker-Kokoris, developer of Red Shirt, included her game in a charitable bundle through Groupees about six weeks ago. Khandaker-Kokoris says it appears as if Fast2Play is reselling keys from the bundle she was in, and that she’s worried people aren’t aware their purchase won’t support the developers.

Taylor thinks these sales are also damaging to the idea of developers offering the sales that Steam is well known for.

“As an indie team, we want to keep doing low-price and pay-what-you want promotions to allow customers to purchase our games legally and cheaply,” Taylor says. “We don't want to be deterred by the idea that anyone can come along and exploit that illegally for their own gain without any recompense for the original developers; this doesn't seem fair, it's demonstrably illegal, and it's also against the spirit in which such promotions are intended. Finally, this kind of behavior is also predicated on the idea that nobody will challenge it: We don't think that's acceptable either.”

Rest in the link.

Shameful stuff.

 

[_hekk05]

Wow that's pretty disgusting. Is there a specific law or TOS against reselling so they can be nailed for it though?

edit: what was I thinking about laws lol

 

[licktheenvelope]

So Fast2Play is a bunch of dbags. Don't buy there.

 

[childplease]

Capitalism.

 

[Tcbys]

Wow what a really shitty thing to do.

How did they get alot of codes? Did they just keep buying the $1 package 1000 times or something.

 

[Shiggy]

While I don't like what these sites are doing and fear that developers may no longer do these bundles, I think this is just outright wrong:

it's demonstrably illegal

I wonder whether the new Humble system prevents this from happening.

 

[_hekk05]

Capitalism.

I'm pretty sure this can be considered stealing from charities, which might be a criminal offense? I'm not sure about US laws.

Also not sure if humblebundle is recognised as an actual charity.

 

[KAP151]

Hopefully word spreads and these clowns get run out of business.

Shameful to say the least.

 

[wrowa]

That's not really surprising, it is? Key re-sellers using dubious sources for their keys is pretty much expected.

 

[Owlowiscious]

Don't regular people do this anyways? What's the difference that a company is doing it?

 

[Burgess_101]

I used to write blog posts for Kinguin but I left once I saw how horrible their business practises were, I recommend you avoid them like the plague.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

I probably just don't understand everything here, but I'm not necessarily seeing the big deal. If someone buys a bunch of humble bundle steam keys to resell, did that deprive others of the humble bundle deal? Or is there some other issue I'm missing?

For example if there's 100 humble bundles/keys total to sell, and 25 are bought by these guys that would mean only 75 are available legitimately for everyone else. That I would be upset with.

Now let's say there's an unlimited number of humble bundle steam keys available (or at least enough to where they wouldn't "run out" while the Humble Bundle was on sale). In that case I don't see the issue. They would resell the keys at a discount to the normal price to people that obviously missed out on the Humble Bundle prices.

So yes, they would make money off of it, but at the same time the consumer would be paying less than the normal price and so still save money over simply buying the game on Steam or wherever. Win win, no?

 

[Saintguine]

Whilst I consider this particular business wrong, I'm not seeing what is so illegal about reselling purchases that you have not redeemed because Terms and Conditions do not hold up in a court of law.

 

[curlycare]

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[hohoXD123]

I probably just don't understand everything here, but I'm not necessarily seeing the big deal. If someone buys a bunch of humble bundle steam keys to resell, did that deprive others of the humble bundle deal? Or is there some other issue I'm missing?

For example if there's 100 humble bundles/keys total to sell, and 25 are bought by these guys that would mean only 75 are available legitimately for everyone else. That I would be upset with.

Now let's say there's an unlimited number of humble bundle steam keys available (or at least enough to where they wouldn't "run out" while the Humble Bundle was on sale). In that case I don't see the issue. They would resell the keys at a discount to the normal price to people that obviously missed out on the Humble Bundle prices.

So yes, they would make money off of it, but at the same time the consumer would be paying less than the normal price and so still save money over simply buying the game on Steam or wherever. Win win, no?

Except for the developers since they don't get any revenue from the reseller's sales, only from the much lower humble bundle purchase. Plus if they're paying the minimum steam key amount and reselling at several times that, charities won't be benefiting as much as they should. The retailer wins and possibly the consumer too if there is no possibility of the game being removed from their library, but that's it.

 

[eot]

This is why we can't have nice things.

That's actually an appropriate response for once.

 

[mclem]

Whilst I consider this particular business wrong, I'm not seeing what is so illegal about reselling purchases that you have not redeemed because Terms and Conditions do not hold up in a court of law.

How legally binding is the 'not for resale' on a multipack can of coke?

 

[Prophet Steve]

This is why we can't have nice things.

Pretty much, absolutely disgusting.

 

[Saintguine]

How legally binding is the 'not for resale' on a multipack can of coke?

Ebay doesn't think it carries much weight, not to mention that you can resell military issued MREs (as a civilian) on Ebay legally despite the government being really pissy about it.

 

[mclem]

Except for the developers since they don't get any revenue from the reseller's sales, only from the much lower humble bundle purchase. Plus if they're paying the minimum steam key amount and reselling at several times that, charities won't be benefiting as much as they should. The retailer wins and possibly the consumer too if there is no possibility of the game being removed from their library, but that's it.

Except you can already opt - if you're a brick-hearted stump of a being - to give the charities nothing in a HB transaction, which makes it hard to argue that there's an amount the charities are explicitly entitled to.

And you can't really claim 'the developers aren't getting what they're owed' since that's the same argument against preowned sales. The statement is that they got what they're entitled to from the initial sale. It's rather interesting when the initial sale gives them less revenue than the later sale would do, which is something I hadn't previously considered as a possibility in the preowned debate.

I don't think this is illegal, and I don't like that fact.

 

[akira28]

This is why we can't have nice things.

those fuckers.

 

[CoolCat]

edited

 

[Gormless Noodle]

It doesn't really matter what it is , if there's a way to abuse it, it will be abused. I hope they can take action against it though.

 

[pa22word]

Shameful stuff.

People here on gaf do it all the time. Take a gander over in the buy/sell thread sometime.

And yes, it is fucking disgusting that the staff here let it happen.

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

Except for the developers since they don't get any revenue from the reseller's sales, only from the much lower humble bundle purchase. Plus if they're paying the minimum steam key amount and reselling at several times that, charities won't be benefiting as much as they should. The retailer wins and possibly the consumer too if there is no possibility of the game being removed from their library, but that's it.

I see many people don't like it in general, so I'll just say that personally if I made a product and sold it to someone who then turned around and sold it for more, I'd simply think "good for them" and then think about my own asking price. Is it too low?

I try to think logically (and fail often) and so as far as my logic goes I'm just not seeing what is so "disgusting" (that word has been used a couple times now) about this.

 

[mclem]

I see many people don't like it in general, so I'll just say that personally if I made a product and sold it to someone who then turned around and sold it for more, I'd simply think "good for them" and then think about my own asking price. Is it too low?

I try to think logically (and fail often) and so as far as my logic goes I'm just not seeing what is so "disgusting" (that word has been used a couple times now) about this.

Are you thinking about a physical product here? Don't forget that digital products could be bought in mass bulk. They could effectively set them up as a competitor to you, selling your products to your audience cheaper than you will.

And if you feel your asking price is too low in this context, the answer to that is to not sign up to humble bundle. Which would be a shame if it became a pervasive sentiment.

The long-term ramifications of this are detrimental to the consumer, the developer *and* other retailers.

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

People here on gaf do it all the time. Take a gander over in the buy/sell thread sometime.

And yes, it is fucking disgusting that the staff here let it happen.

I haven't checked out the buy/sell thread, but if someone buys a humble bundle and ends up with a game they already have, I don't see any problem with them selling it here.

 

[LurkerPrime]

This is disgustingly terrible... I can't believe an actual business has sunk this low.


Edit: I'm shocked some people are OK with this.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Good investigative journalism. Need more of this.

 

[firehawk12]

Except you can already opt - if you're a brick-hearted stump of a being - to give the charities nothing in a HB transaction, which makes it hard to argue that there's an amount the charities are explicitly entitled to.

And you can't really claim 'the developers aren't getting what they're owed' since that's the same argument against preowned sales. The statement is that they got what they're entitled to from the initial sale. It's rather interesting when the initial sale gives them less revenue than the later sale would do, which is something I hadn't previously considered as a possibility in the preowned debate.

I don't think this is illegal, and I don't like that fact.

You know, thinking of it as a used game sale is kind of interesting. It's just an even greyer area because you aren't even selling a product. You're basically selling a series of digits that can be used to get a game on Steam. I don't even know who would own that specific sequence of numbers... Valve? The Developer? The person who bought it?

Like, if someone buy as iTunes giftcard and then chooses to resell it, the value is in the number on the card and not the card itself after all.

 

[KDR_11k]

Not really news, it's the reason Humble moved to directly linking games to your account instead of giving you keys. Most other bundles are still vulnerable though.

 

[nampad]

I used g2play several times, now they are on my shitlist. Really scummy move by them.

 

[Hooligaani]

I knew something like this would come up when I seen Kinguin selling Rise of Flight for (IIRC €7.99)
Not only that, but then selling the freely supplied DLC separately, that was a new low IMO.

 

[Holykael1]

wow what a bunch of cuntbags. Hopefully they get sued..

 

[VibratingDonkey]

Selling/gifting bundle codes doesn't feel wrong to me. Unless you're buying en masse, for the lowest price, with the intention of profiting by reselling. Extra minus points for selling gift codes and having customers risk getting their Steam accounts permanently disabled. Proper disdain for anything but the bottom line.

 

[michaelius]

People have been reselling bundle keys for years now.

 

[McHuj]

I have zero problem with this. If you bought it , you get to resell it. If they stole the keys that's different.

 

[bootski]

I probably just don't understand everything here, but I'm not necessarily seeing the big deal. If someone buys a bunch of humble bundle steam keys to resell, did that deprive others of the humble bundle deal? Or is there some other issue I'm missing?

For example if there's 100 humble bundles/keys total to sell, and 25 are bought by these guys that would mean only 75 are available legitimately for everyone else. That I would be upset with.

Now let's say there's an unlimited number of humble bundle steam keys available (or at least enough to where they wouldn't "run out" while the Humble Bundle was on sale). In that case I don't see the issue. They would resell the keys at a discount to the normal price to people that obviously missed out on the Humble Bundle prices.

So yes, they would make money off of it, but at the same time the consumer would be paying less than the normal price and so still save money over simply buying the game on Steam or wherever. Win win, no?

except for the developers, humble bundle and the charity. it's fraudulent and certainly against the agreement you enter into when buying from HB.

 

[conman]

Don't regular people do this anyways? What's the difference that a company is doing it?

Before the Citizens United SCOTUS case, I would have said something like "a 'person' and a 'company' are not the same thing."

 

[Maintenance]

Except for the part that they can resell for a higher price (which, by the way, is ok with capitalism), I really don't see that big of a problem. Some people saying that this is robbing charities, you must remember that now you can already donate nothing to the charities, making that point null. Yes, it is slimy, but that is the reality of today's world.


Right now I'm trying to buy an old game, but the prices for an used copy are even higher than the original price when the game was new, and I know that I can't blame anyone but myself for not buying the game when it was new.

 

[Kaleinc]

Don't they use redeem links instead of keys now? After one purchase you will go to HB website anyway.

 

[ShinobiFist]

Don't they use redeem links instead of keys now? After one purchase you will go to HB website anyway.

Word. Is not like it use to be.

 

[outunderthestars]

Wow, that is profoundly sleazy.

 

[LuchaShaq]

change it so you have to give humble bundle your steam name and then they gift them to you? idk.

 

[chrominance]

Don't they use redeem links instead of keys now? After one purchase you will go to HB website anyway.

The article notes that developers are unclear on whether the new HB system has helped to curb reselling or not, and that more recent Humble Bundle games have appeared on the storefronts at discounted prices. So maybe it's working and maybe it's not. That said, the HB gifting process keeps you on their site the whole time (when you receive a gifted key you get sent to a Humble Bundle page that lets you redeem the key to a specific Steam account). But if you're not astute enough to know that Humble Bundle is itself a storefront and that you could easily get games for cheaper by buying from the legit source, that may not matter so much--you might just assume it's G2Play/whoever's storefront software or whatnot.

 

[BraXzy]

I wondered why they stopped giving out simple keys. Fair enough if things like this are happening. Could they not limit purchases to 5 or something?

 

[tim_pkmn89]

I wondered why they stopped giving out simple keys. Fair enough if things like this are happening. Could they not limit purchases to 5 or something?

Multiple e-mail addresses aren't hard at all, especially if you already have your own domain name.

 

[DryvBy]

Capitalism.

No. It's just greed. This can happen in any form of market.

 

[Darknight]

Sleazy but people here on GAF do this shit too and even on CAG. Shameful.

The funny thing is they get the keys for $1 and then resell each for more than that, say $2 a pop so they make a nice profit. Will never purchase a steam key like that from people who want to charge more for something they payed less. At least on CAG some users sell it by their actual price on the bundle. Say that got 5 games for $1, they sell the keys for .20 cents. Thumbs up for that.

 

[Camp Lo]

I'm not even remotely shocked. People on GAF try to do the same thing with those keys until they got called out.