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[Seanspeed]

Well, to me PP isn't about lap times and I get on fine with GT5 and GT6. I can race in any lobby and have largely no complaints about competitive fairness. And I'm not some awesome Schumacher type either.

This has absolutely nothing to do with how competitive you are. lol

Don't worry about it, man. Don't think you're getting what I'm saying.

In other news, the DS3 continues to test my patience. Triggers don't have enough travel. Sticks are too loose and uncomfortable. And the controller is just generally too small and doesn't sit right in my hand. Its funny because these issues aren't immediately noticeable upon picking up the controller, but once I'm doing a somewhat longer race or after playing the game for a while, it becomes painfully evident. It really detracts from the experience and I feel it hurts my competitiveness to a degree as well. I desperately wish I could just plug my 360 controller into my PS3!

And despite this complaining, I'm having a good time. Been a while since I've really sunk myself into a GT game.

 

[phosphor112]

To me, the PP system is fair. I ran the Dream Car championship with the X2014 Junior downtuned significantly. And even though it's only a 200 odd horsepower engine that tops out at 130, I still finished 3rd in the championship. And you have to keep in mind, I was going against GT and LMP class cars that can go over 200 mph.

 

[Seanspeed]

To me, the PP system is fair. I ran the Dream Car championship with the X2014 Junior downtuned significantly. And even though it's only a 200 odd horsepower engine that tops out at 130, I still finished 3rd in the championship. And you have to keep in mind, I was going against GT and LMP class cars that can go over 200 mph.

Ignoring that you haven't even told us what the PP of your downtuned X2014 was, nobody is saying the system never works at all. The nature of these performance indicators is that while they're supposed to(in a perfect world) give you an accurate assessment of how competitive a car will be on average, the calculations used to come to these numbers tend to ignore a lot of variables and lead to a range of results. Sometimes it'll be accurate, sometimes it will be less accurate. The better a system is, the more accurate it is on average.

Juicy Bob guessed that the system in GT is probably mostly(or wholly) related to power to weight ratio. This seems quite plausible and would explain much. And if so, this is just too simplistic to achieve a good system. Other games have done a better job.

Its also something that is best tested with human competition as the AI in GT isn't very good and hardly a good indicator of the competitiveness of a car.

 

[seattle6418]

Ignoring that you haven't even told us what the PP of your downtuned X2014 was, nobody is saying the system never works at all. The nature of these performance indicators is that while they're supposed to(in a perfect world) give you an accurate assessment of how competitive a car will be on average, the calculations used to come to these numbers tend to ignore a lot of variables and lead to a range of results. Sometimes it'll be accurate, sometimes it will be less accurate. The better a system is, the more accurate it is on average.

Juicy Bob guessed that the system in GT is probably mostly(or wholly) related to power to weight ratio. This seems quite plausible and would explain much. And if so, this is just too simplistic to achieve a good system. Other games have done a better job.

Its also something that is best tested with human competition as the AI in GT isn't very good and hardly a good indicator of the competitiveness of a car.

And if you´re gonna do a generic system, then at least do it by lap times. If you´re in one of those 600pp nurb rooms you really want to be competitive with a bunch of cars. If you really played GT online enough, you´ll see that there are cars with 600pp lapping 30 seconds of each other, so in the end the stupid system always makes you use the same cars if you want to race competitively. If you´re on free runs and stuff, that fine, but if its a competition the system just frustrates you due to be a piece of shit.

We´ve done some extensive testing during the SuperGT seasons here in GAF and a 600pp Lexus gets absolutely murdered by a 600pp Takata NSX. Then, a new NSX model with 600pp still gets beat by the ´03 and ´01 model by a good margin.

Point is, the system can´t even figure out cars from the same class, so i wouldn´t say it´s hit and miss. It´s miss and miss.

 

[phosphor112]

Ignoring that you haven't even told us what the PP of your downtuned X2014 was, nobody is saying the system never works at all. The nature of these performance indicators is that while they're supposed to(in a perfect world) give you an accurate assessment of how competitive a car will be on average, the calculations used to come to these numbers tend to ignore a lot of variables and lead to a range of results. Sometimes it'll be accurate, sometimes it will be less accurate. The better a system is, the more accurate it is on average.

Juicy Bob guessed that the system in GT is probably mostly(or wholly) related to power to weight ratio. This seems quite plausible and would explain much. And if so, this is just too simplistic to achieve a good system. Other games have done a better job.

Its also something that is best tested with human competition as the AI in GT isn't very good and hardly a good indicator of the competitiveness of a car.

It's 750. On the tracks with lots of turns, I was easily in first, but even though I was dominating the Nordschleif on the main sections (except for the fast section before carrousel) that section and the straight away allowed a lot of the top cars to catch up, keeping it very competitive.

As people said, it's a summary of it's overall performance. I completely out performed all the top cars in turns, but straights are it's weak points. As people have said, summaries aren't going to give you all the details. You have to look at the displacement, bhp and more to get the full picture. Even though a lot of those races I was in featured straights for cars to go 70-100 mph faster than me, I was still competitive.

And no, it's not just power to weight ratio. It includes the general aerodynamics as well. Taking a X2014, downtuning it to 50% power and increasing it by 200kg still keeps it at around 760PP. That puts it at a lower power to weight ratio than the Toyota 7 '70, but because the aerodynamics of the X2014 standard is much better, it still has a higher PP. I'm not sure how those compare when the Standard is down tuned all the way. I'd have to do some time trials.

 

[Seanspeed]

And if you´re gonna do a generic system, then at least do it by lap times. If you´re in one of those 600pp nurb rooms you really want to be competitive with a bunch of cars. If you really played GT online enough, you´ll see that there are cars with 600pp lapping 30 seconds of each other, so in the end the stupid system always makes you use the same cars if you want to race competitively. If you´re on free runs and stuff, that fine, but if its a competition the system just frustrates you due to be a piece of shit.

We´ve done some extensive testing during the SuperGT seasons here in GAF and a 600pp Lexus gets absolutely murdered by a 600pp Takata NSX. Then, a new NSX model with 600pp still gets beat by the ´03 and ´01 model by a good margin.

Point is, the system can´t even figure out cars from the same class, so i wouldn´t say it´s hit and miss. It´s miss and miss.

Having cars dominate in certain classes or leaderboards isn't abnormal. Its undesirable, but its not a *total* failing of the system. With so many different cars and different ways to customize them, performance-wise, this is bound to happen sometimes.

Now granted, I dont know how deep this runs. I haven't played enough to get into the more competitive hot lapping and online racing aspects, so maybe its worse than I'm imagining, but any 'system' is bound to be imperfect to some degree. My complaint is that its more inaccurate than other ones I've come across.

It's 750. On the tracks with lots of turns, I was easily in first, but even though I was dominating the Nordschleif on the main sections (except for the fast section before carrousel) that section and the straight away allowed a lot of the top cars to catch up, keeping it very competitive.

As people said, it's a summary of it's overall performance. I completely out performed all the top cars in turns, but straights are it's weak points. As people have said, summaries aren't going to give you all the details. You have to look at the displacement, bhp and more to get the full picture. Even though a lot of those races I was in featured straights for cars to go 70-100 mph faster than me, I was still competitive.

And no, it's not just power to weight ratio. It includes the general aerodynamics as well. Taking a X2014, downtuning it to 50% power and increasing it by 200kg still keeps it at around 760PP. That puts it at a lower power to weight ratio than the Toyota 7 '70, but because the aerodynamics of the X2014 standard is much better, it still has a higher PP. I'm not sure how those compare when the Standard is down tuned all the way. I'd have to do some time trials.

Displacement? I really dont think that should be a factor whatsoever.

Anyways, talking about your specifics, it sounds like there might be a bit more at play than power to weight ratio, but what, and how much do they have an effect? How realistic is it in terms of the actual performance of the cars? Going by other examples just browsing through the dealerships, there's clearly something going wrong somewhere. There's absolutely no denying it. Just because it turned out somewhat balanced in one example doesn't mean the system works fine. Especially one ran against AI and not yourself or other humans. Like I said, these 'systems' will have a range of results. This isn't something where you can just give one example an expect that to prove the whole argument wrong.

 

[sCHOCOLATE]

...In other news, the DS3 continues to test my patience. Triggers don't have enough travel. Sticks are too loose and uncomfortable. And the controller is just generally too small and doesn't sit right in my hand. Its funny because these issues aren't immediately noticeable upon picking up the controller, but once I'm doing a somewhat longer race or after playing the game for a while, it becomes painfully evident. It really detracts from the experience and I feel it hurts my competitiveness to a degree as well. I desperately wish I could just plug my 360 controller into my PS3!...

This man speaks the truth.

 

[Kukuk]

It's been a couple weeks since I sat down with this. I regret jumping right into the Toyota GT86 seasonal event. Forgot how much I fucking hate that car. It's understeer is almost as bad as the Veyron's.

 

[phosphor112]

It's been a couple weeks since I sat down with this. I regret jumping right into the Toyota GT86 seasonal event. Forgot how much I fucking hate that car. It's understeer is almost as bad as the Veyron's.

The mandatory skid recovery force makes it understeer. It sucks.

 

[ruttyboy]

Been playing Richard Burns Rally (with the RSRBR2014 mod) for the first time this past week. Was missing GT though so I thought I'd try out some GT rallying to compare.

They're definitely two different beasts, GT is all about diving into the corner under power, if you haven't got the angle right going in to the corner it's very difficult to correct mid way through, whereas RBR is about getting the braking right beforehand and relying on momentum much more. For example, in RBR you can left foot brake in a corner to create oversteer, if you try the same thing in GT then any turning momentum you had disappears when you apply the brake and you understeer until you let off again.

Basically I think the loose surface physics are just the tarmac physics with the 'grip' value of the surface turned down. So not realistic, but I still find it loads of fun drifting about everywhere!

 

[brotkasten]

Ferrari announced the new Ferrari California T.

Would it be reasonable to expect the car soon in the game or is Ferrari too good for that, unlike BMW.

 

[Seanspeed]

I like how you immediately think the blame would be on Ferrari. lol

 

[brotkasten]

I like how you immediately think the blame would be on Ferrari. lol

I was trying to be diplomatic. :lol

 

[commedieu]

Man, theres nothing like spending 1 hour cracking down on a laptime. FINALLY shaving off seconds beyond seconds, being on the top of your own personal leaderboard... then thinking "hmm, the mclaren f1 felt kinda funny...let me check..." ------> Options (look at Traction control. TCS: 5.

"damnit!"

However, i got within 1 second of my tcs time, after I switched of tcs.. Thats something to be proud of no? Deep Forrest. 1:21 mclaren F1...

yeah?

Does your TCS setting save/switch to default ON every time you pick a new car/swap a car?

Was following the recommendations of that scotish woman who was teaching James May how to drive on top gear. Really helped me get into a mindset of not slamming gas off and on, entry and exit speed. I love that I can watch someone on tv about improving racing, then applying it to GT.

Jackie Stewart..

 

[captscience]

scotish woman


Jackie Stewart..

Ummmm...

He's a great teacher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-jAk-i5A_s

 

[lightchris]

Does your TCS setting save/switch to default ON every time you pick a new car/swap a car?

Yes and no. It's saved individually for each car, so you have to set it again on every new car.

 

[commedieu]

Ummmm...

He's a great teacher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-jAk-i5A_s

it was a joke, in ref to the episode. Hamster was jokingly pretending he wasn't aware of who Jackie was. heh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5rpFXdWtK4

Yes and no. It's saved individually for each car, so you have to set it again on every new car.

Damn, I have to reset my leaderboard...

 

[Animal]

Is there a regular GAF group meet up online for this game?

 

[TTG]

So, I know I'm rusty but, how is everyone else doing with the Rocket seasonal event? Because using the stock car with SRF off I broke a sweat getting into the 2.14s. I'm well over a second away from gold here! Upgrading the car and/or turning the assist on obviously will put an end to that, but it's kind of a bummer. Maybe I need more time.

 

[state_vector_collapse]

The artificial tyre wear in longer races is really pissing me off in this game now.

Been doing the S series races, and once again, as an example, tyres can last say 3 laps, but if you pit with one lap to go, guaranteed those tyres will be worn down to zero before the end of the lap and can cause ridiculous loss of traction.

Why affect tyre wear like that. If tyres last 3 laps earlier in a race, then they should easily last that one lap at the end. So frustrating.

 

[Juicy Bob]

The artificial tyre wear in longer races is really pissing me off in this game now.

Been doing the S series races, and once again, as an example, tyres can last say 3 laps, but if you pit with one lap to go, guaranteed those tyres will be worn down to zero before the end of the lap and can cause ridiculous loss of traction.

Why affect tyre wear like that. If tyres last 3 laps earlier in a race, then they should easily last that one lap at the end. So frustrating.

Something something Pirelli tyres...

 

[ruttyboy]

Probably nothing, but I just got an email from Amazon trying to flog me in-game credits for GT6 (good luck with that...) and it contained this line:

"Use these credits to splash out on stunning new cars, tracks and content for your GT6 game."

I wonder if their plan is to get you to use in-game currency for any future tracks, like a free to play game, rather than the traditional DLC model? If we ever see another track obviously, remember the one track a month claim?

I'm starting to think that due to what seems like relatively disappointing sales they've moved most of the DLC tracks to the PS4 version. Otherwise, if they release tonnes of tracks for GT6, then they will face a Forza 5 style backlash with GT7 if they then remove them again rather than include them as they have for GT5->6.

In fact, I can see them releasing a PS4 version of 6 and releasing tracks on both platforms at the same time ongoing.

 

[Angst]

Is there a regular GAF group meet up online for this game?

I don't think so, although I'm sure we could get a race or two going if someone takes the initiative. We had a strong group playing every weekend for almost a year with GT5.

In other news, I just bought the game during the PSN sale. Now I just need to get my wheel from the attic

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

I wish they would hurry up with the course maker, the game is dead to me in its current state.

I hope this is a flying visit and Polyphony are not there to scan the circuit because that would mean Interlagos is a PS4 track

 

[brotkasten]

I wish they would hurry up with the course maker, the game is dead to me in its current state.

I hope this is a flying visit and Polyphony are not there to scan the circuit because that would mean Interlagos is a PS4 track

More importantly, where are the classic F1 cars you talked about?

 

[The Stealth Fox]

We're still waiting for those community features too.

Is it January yet?

 

[brotkasten]

We're still waiting for those community features too.

Is it January yet?

Don't worry, everything will happen much faster with GT6, because PD said so.

 

[TTG]

So, I know I'm rusty but, how is everyone else doing with the Rocket seasonal event? Because using the stock car with SRF off I broke a sweat getting into the 2.14s. I'm well over a second away from gold here! Upgrading the car and/or turning the assist on obviously will put an end to that, but it's kind of a bummer. Maybe I need more time.

Finally got it under 2.13. Took an oil change to do it, well maybe it took the placebo effect of the oil change. Anyway, Suzuka can be such a bitch, every tiny mistake just ripples out.

 

[Jedi2016]

The artificial tyre wear in longer races is really pissing me off in this game now.

Been doing the S series races, and once again, as an example, tyres can last say 3 laps, but if you pit with one lap to go, guaranteed those tyres will be worn down to zero before the end of the lap and can cause ridiculous loss of traction.

Why affect tyre wear like that. If tyres last 3 laps earlier in a race, then they should easily last that one lap at the end. So frustrating.

They still haven't fixed that? Looks like I'll never be driving the endurance events, then. I remember the good old days when you drove a race for four hours and only had to pit about every thirty minutes.

 

[Djie]

uh oh... is the hacking back again?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkN7aIfoVxg

 

[paskowitz]

uh oh... is the hacking back again?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkN7aIfoVxg

Here we go again. :\

 

[emiliano]

I've done a list of the cars in gt6, it's not 100% complete, but nearly. I think this may be useful. It's a spreadsheet in ods format.
https://mega.co.nz/#!UtsQ3IpI!TiLKfXXnpW85_Z99qjLoCsed3wW_yN8bPX1JB4yvdCw

 

[Jabba]

The artificial tyre wear in longer races is really pissing me off in this game now.

Been doing the S series races, and once again, as an example, tyres can last say 3 laps, but if you pit with one lap to go, guaranteed those tyres will be worn down to zero before the end of the lap and can cause ridiculous loss of traction.

Why affect tyre wear like that. If tyres last 3 laps earlier in a race, then they should easily last that one lap at the end. So frustrating.

I posted in this thread about this earlier. Your best bet is to use hard tires for these events even in the wet. I lost so many times at Le Mans in the Sauber Mercedes C9 because of this. Came to this thread and someone suggested the above. I was really angry after many losses too.

If you listen carefully if your using an LMP1 class car, you can hear tires squealing while accelerating down straights. I was like WTF? Tried different heights and applications of the throttle but no change. BTW, using DS3.

 

[Goldrusher]

2011 GT Academy winner Jann Mardenborough to race in GP3.

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/2...mardenborough-and-he-will-race-in-gp3-in-2014

Red Bull have signed PlayStation gamer-turned-racer Jann Mardenborough to an "intensive driver development programme" and the Welshman will race in GP3 with Arden International in 2014.

[...]

"With Red Bull it is going to be predominantly on the simulator and helping to develop their simulator and maybe move it forwards," Mardenborough continued.

"They were really interested in me because of where I have come from and the PlayStation side of things so they were quite interested in my thoughts on their simulator. We are going to be working quite closely together throughout the season and it will help me learn the new tracks like Russia and the Hungaroring that I haven't been to before and get me ready for GP3."

 

[ruttyboy]

I check GT Planet most days to see if there's been any announcements and it really says something that the announcements and info available about the GT Academy guys tends to dwarf those about the game itself.

Still nothing about the track we've been told is coming in Feb for instance and we've only got just over a week of Feb left!

 

[The Stealth Fox]

Did Kaz remember it was January yet?

 

[Dead Man]

So any word on actual endurance races?

 

[Niks]

So any word on the 1 track a month DLC?

Spoiler

lol

 

[brotkasten]

So any word on the 1 track a month DLC?

Spoiler

lol

They didn't say when they'd start with the DLC.

 

[The Stealth Fox]

It's one track a month for two months, lulz

 

[TTG]

That and at this pace we'll see the Vision Car roster fill out by 2025.

 

[-Deadpool-]

It is absolutely disappointing that just a few months after release, it's a ghost town around here and within the GT community.

100%'ed the game in less than 40 hours, and now just boot it up to maintain the 200% daily bonus and play weekly for the Seasonals.

New content please, Polyphony.. C'mon, where's all this stuff that we keep hearing about?

 

[ruttyboy]

That and at this pace we'll see the Vision Car roster fill out by 2025.

Another reason why I think there will be some level of integration between GT6 and the first PS4 version of GT.

 

[brotkasten]

That and at this pace we'll see the Vision Car roster fill out by 2025.

Looking at the seemingly bad sales, I doubt we'll see that much more support for GT6.

 

[crazepharmacist]

Where the hell is the community update? It was supposed to come in January. There is a serious lack of communication from PD. Huge turn off from GT games. At this point, no way in hell I am buying GT7. I'm still waiting for my shuffle races. Why were they taken out to begin with!!?

 

[amar212]

Well, I didn't notice a thread here on NeoGaf, but apparently Thuway has been very busy in past 2 days regarding Gran Turismo's future:

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/02/18/list-of-future-ps4-reveals-leaked-by-insider/

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/02...-grat-turismo-7-and-more-provided-by-insider/

I nave no information about any above and I presume it would be teeth-grinding to get some real info at this point.

What it SEEMS TO ME is how Polyphony went into a deep introvertive state to try to finish everything regarding the current state of GT6 to be able to re-launch the game in the planned state and with planned functionalities in one mega-patch.

There is many, many very important functionalities game is still missing and among them is the KEY GT6 FUNCTIONALITY, new Course Maker with the GPS functionalities. The current GT6 official slogan - The World is Your Track - has been made with that functionality in mind and we are still waiting for it.

I dug official Sony Press site just to clear some of my own misconceptions and here are the quotes from the official GT6 descriptions:

Personalise your tracks, create your own then go online to connect with friends, leagues and tournaments, and discover a world of driving you didn’t know existed. The globe is your racetrack – start your engines…

On top of that, we had another speculation around, based on the ability to actually build not only tracks, but cars as well. The speculation was based on the infamous 15th Anniversary Silverstone video where real-life footage was mixed with CGI renders of GT cars and among all known cars there was a white car that does not resemble any known model. I had my own speculation about that back in August and here is what the official Scee Press site has to say about GT6 in 2 bullet-points:

• Create your very own, personalised custom car and leave the competition in the dust.
• Put your foot down on custom tracks of your own creation.

Also, the official GT site still have very important functionalities listed as coming with Update (scroll to the bottom of the page):
http://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/products/gt6/

And last - but not least - the complete Senna tie-in is absolutely planned for GT6 on PS3, since the overall Brasilian PR for GT6 (and PS3) was based around it.

I think PD and Sony negotiated some kind of GT6 re-launch on PS3, with proper campaign and PR once the actual work on the game is done. I have no evidence or clues besides bits and pieces presented above but somehow I think they are working to deliver a proper Spec 2.0 with some big-bang, instead of going small updates.

We will know soon I presume.

 

[ruttyboy]

Thanks for pointing out the Thuway stuff Amar, hadn't seen those.

At this point they'd be mad to not be developing all this 'future' stuff without making it PS4 compatible, surely? I can see a Spec 2.0 happening and I've had similar thoughts about them holding all this stuff back for it, but it took them nearly a year to do that for GT5. If it takes that long again they're going to hit PS4's first big Christmas.

I reckon GT6 Spec 2.0 (PS3) in October and GT7 Prologue (a modified GT6 with spec 2.0 content on PS4) in Nov/Dec.

 

[Niks]

Stuff

I find it sad that at a time where every other major sony studio is fully focused on working on PS4 projects, PD is still struggling with delivering content on last gen.

I would really like to see GT6 sales figures... cant help but think they were disappointing.

 

[offshore]

I think PD and Sony negotiated some kind of GT6 re-launch on PS3, with proper campaign and PR once the actual work on the game is done.

I think that would be a total waste of time. Game has already crashed in the market; relaunching it, when next gen will be/is in full swing seems pointless. Even more people will probably wonder why it's not on PS4. And if there is a PS4 version, who's gonna buy the PS3 version? Just get the updates out ASAP. Don't piss around waiting for a relaunch. We need updates now; not in many months' time.

Sony's total mismanagement of Polyphony and GT this generation has been absolutely extraordinary.

I would really like to see GT6 sales figures... cant help but think they were disappointing.

I would not be at all surprised if that sales figures page on PD's site never gets updated ever again...

 

[IISANDERII]

So, I know I'm rusty but, how is everyone else doing with the Rocket seasonal event? Because using the stock car with SRF off I broke a sweat getting into the 2.14s. I'm well over a second away from gold here! Upgrading the car and/or turning the assist on obviously will put an end to that, but it's kind of a bummer. Maybe I need more time.

Didn't even know there were new seasonals until this post. The snow was a real bitch, took me almost 2hrs.