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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
- Thread starter ResetEraVetVIP
- Start date
Msamy
Member
A generation ahead, you say? Madness
But you do you
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
ProtoByte
Member
That banner isn't official.
Based on what Porter said, they are going more photorealistic. So I imagine there will be a jump in graphics. But I also expect a jump in NPC count, AI, physical objects, destruction and such. So one has to wonder how far they can go. And then there's maintaining the resolution standard...
That PS5 Pro can't come soon enough.
GymWolf
Member
I think models based on real, famous actors have an unfair advantage because it is way easier to pass them for real persons over let's say the abomination that sony studios does to his real models to make them look way uglier ingame.
Aloy is just as detailed (if not more) as these pics you people posted but she still look fake-ish because her face is the result of an uglymorphosis (yes it's a real word), only the callisto dude is slightly superior.
If guerrilla just tried to replicate the real actor the result would be much more credible (still less credible than famous actors that you know well).
Aloy is just as detailed (if not more) as these pics you people posted but she still look fake-ish because her face is the result of an uglymorphosis (yes it's a real word), only the callisto dude is slightly superior.
If guerrilla just tried to replicate the real actor the result would be much more credible (still less credible than famous actors that you know well).
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What a looker.ds1 on ps4 slim... my old screenshots
It's the most impressed i've been with graphics this last gen.
Of course, the mind blowing cinematography and mo-cap have a lot to do with it as well.
amigastar
Member
Haven't played Callisto Protocol but from what i've seen the graphics are very nice.!!!
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
yeah and landscapes too!
I am looking forward to replaying Directors cut on ps5.
Yes, the landscapes are equally impressive.
This will be my first game to play on PS5, sometimes in the (more or less) near future.
Trilobit
Member
Hugare
Member
Sure, pick 2 compressed images to compare to!!!
Very smart
ds1 on ps4 slim... my old screenshots
DS still looks amazing. But I still think Callisto is one step above it.
Notice how Mama's skin is devoided of any detail. Looks like she is made of wax. You cant see any pores on her skin.
No wonder Die-Hardman is the best model in the game: the dark tone of his skin hides the lack of granular detail, so he looks more realistic
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
ds1 on ps4 slim... my old screenshots
One of the GOATs. Let's be real a big part of why this is such a relaxing experience is the graphics.
TheRedRiders
Member
"No reason was given for the delays. However, it could be assumed that the game needs more time in order to run properly on older hardware."
"Laughs in SlimySnake"
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Msamy
Member
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
She is young
But I think Die-hardman is best looking character in the whole game for sure.
And yes - Callisto is a bit better when they are not talking
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Isnt it ironic that these publishers downgraded their games in order to get them to run on last gen hardware, and then ended up not shipping on them anyway?
Getting fucked by their own greed. God does exist.
arkhamguy123
Member
50/50 it gets cancelled on last gen.
Piggoro
Member
SC=Star Citizen?Old screenshot (in game) from SC
The bolded part. I haven't played DS nor have I played The Callisto Protocol but I do like the faces from The Callisto better going by the images and that's because they do have the imperfections that us real humans have in our looks/faces. The faces in DS are too perfect to the point they have this waxy look to them if that makes sense.
Having said that, I do think DS2 has better graphics than The Callisto judging from the trailer.
GymWolf
Member
I think that women with their cleaner skin are always gonna look inferior to men from the same game, the jap chick doesn't look as good as the male protagonist because her skin has barely any imperfection to begin with (but yeah she looks better than the chick in ds)
The same goes for young vs old, old is always gonna look more detailed for the wrinkles etc.
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That's true but I was also comparing Norman Reedus's face to the guy from The Callisto Protocol. In DS Norman's face is too clean and waxy whereas the prot in The Callisto Protocol has imperfections just like a real human which renders its face more realistic. I do agree with the points you made though!I think that women with their cleaner skin are always gonna look inferior to men from the same game, the jap chick doesn't look as good as the male protagonist because her skin has barely any imperfection to begin with (but yeah she looks better than the chick in ds)
The same goes for young vs old, old is always gonna look more detailed for the wrinkles etc.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
There’s an asian girl in the Quarry that’s stands out from other characters in the same game in how life like her character model is. I’d put her up against any of these other characters faces.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Maybe, or maybe thats just a shitty model.
Ellie, Tess and Abby look phenomenal and very realistic. It's clear that the Callisto Protocol's main character is who got all the love and everyone else was phoned in.
I think what you're perhaps referring to is the whole black character model looking way better than white characters because of the skin color easily distinguishing their features. It's something ive read several CG artists talk about before. It's why Die Hardman looks so damn amazing but in the same game, Mad's Mikkleson has the best looking character model in the finale and pretty much every white chick in that game looks stunning too unlike the asian girl in CP. (saying Jap is gonna get you banned even on gaf dude lmao)
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Character models in Miles Morales also look incredible
same with GOW
same with GOW
The hair shader looks incredible on that picture.I think that women with their cleaner skin are always gonna look inferior to men from the same game, the jap chick doesn't look as good as the male protagonist because her skin has barely any imperfection to begin with (but yeah she looks better than the chick in ds)
The same goes for young vs old, old is always gonna look more detailed for the wrinkles etc.
RoyBatty
Banned
Yes
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Is Calisto worth the play for the graphics?
ChiefDada
Gold Member
I don't fully understand the hype over CP character model. Sure, the main protagonist looks great but did they ever really eclipse what was accomplished in TLOU Pt. 1? Sorry, I just don't see it. I also think lighting plays a huge part in me giving TLOU Pt. 1 the edge and even though CP incorporated RT, lighting on character model looked better in TLOU Pt. 1. Idk maybe it comes down to preference.
3liteDragon
Member
The whole trailer was captured running on a PS5, there's a note on the bottom right corner when the trailer starts that mentions it.
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3liteDragon
Member
Insomniac explicitly stated Spider-Man 2 & Wolverine are PS5 exclusives, so expect a huge PR backlash if there is a PS4 version in the works, which I HIGHLY doubt there is. I think we're gonna see a HUGE leap in visual fidelity compared to Spider-Man PS4 & Miles Morales, the first trailer for the game was real-time footage captured running on a PS5. I'm expecting the final product to look much better than that given the amount of dev time they've had since the 2021 showcase, I think Spider-Man 2's gonna be the first true "next-gen" game we'll see next year.
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GymWolf
Member
You picked tess with granny face and ellie that is not exactly your typical girl with clean skin because sony studios love to uglify their women.Maybe, or maybe thats just a shitty model.
Ellie, Tess and Abby look phenomenal and very realistic. It's clear that the Callisto Protocol's main character is who got all the love and everyone else was phoned in.
I think what you're perhaps referring to is the whole black character model looking way better than white characters because of the skin color easily distinguishing their features. It's something ive read several CG artists talk about before. It's why Die Hardman looks so damn amazing but in the same game, Mad's Mikkleson has the best looking character model in the finale and pretty much every white chick in that game looks stunning too unlike the asian girl in CP. (saying Jap is gonna get you banned even on gaf dude lmao)
But the general rule is still intact, men usually look better than women in the face, you can see that in a miriad of titles and i sincerely doubt that all the devs put more effort in men faces, it's just that a man skin is easy to make look real over perfect skinned women, skin tech is still not good enough to make even perfect skin not looking like a translucent doll.
Yakuza is like that, death stranding is like that, new re games are like that...
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GymWolf
Member
The best thing are the human faces, everything else is very high level but clearly crossgen unless you are blind or easy to over-hype.
Wait for an heavy discount because the game is not very good imo.
GymWolf
Member
The thing with morales is that he looks good but every other characters is not on his level so you have this uneven quality between models, same for gow where angrboring has by far the best face, freya and freya's brother would not look out of place in a ps4 launch game face wise, same for little shit that just looks strange.Character models in Miles Morales also look incredible
same with GOW
The hair shader looks incredible on that picture.
Only guerrilla managed to make every motherfucker in the game with basically the same details of aloy or slightly lower in a gigantic open world with more characters that ragnarock, morales, callisto and tlou2 combined, that game is the gold standard for how even models should be and i don't think we are gonna see something similar until horizon 3 because it is clear that guerrilla has this type of priorities for their games.
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Mile's face looks good but it does look like a videogame. When I look at his face I say "that's a good looking videogame face" if that makes sense. Could be the fact it's a cross-gen title but then again look at the characters' faces in Horizon FW.Character models in Miles Morales also look incredible
same with GOW
The hair shader looks incredible on that picture.
Man the difference in that screenshot alone is night and day and this isn't the finished game yet. I read somewhere that Insomniac are going for photorealism and someone reiterated this here as well. I just rewatched the SM2 trailer and it looks gorgeous, if they manage to even improve upon that then SM2 might be the first proper next-gen looking game.Insomniac explicitly stated Spider-Man 2 & Wolverine are PS5 exclusives, so expect a huge PR backlash if there is a PS4 version in the works, which I HIGHLY doubt there is. I think we're about to see a HUGE leap in visual fidelity compared to Spider-Man PS4 & Miles Morales, the first trailer for the game was real-time footage captured running on a PS5. I'm expecting the final product to look much better than that given the amount of dev time they've had since the 2021 showcase, I think Spider-Man 2's gonna be the first true "next-gen" game we'll see next year.
GymWolf
Member
Not if they don't improve their characters rendering that as you say is inferior to kojima, nd and guerrilla.
The spidey models looks the same as spidey on ps4.
If they only improved the city but the characters are similar, it is not gonna look full nextgen.
Hugare
Member
Imo, yes. Loved the graphics and really enjoyed the game.
Here you have John from DF praising the game and also calling it one of the best graphics that he had ever seen
And he knows a thing or two about graphics in games
I don't fully understand the hype over CP character model. Sure, the main protagonist looks great but did they ever really eclipse what was accomplished in TLOU Pt. 1? Sorry, I just don't see it. I also think lighting plays a huge part in me giving TLOU Pt. 1 the edge and even though CP incorporated RT, lighting on character model looked better in TLOU Pt. 1. Idk maybe it comes down to preference.
I love TLOU, but again, it doesnt even come close to this:
So yeah, I think lighting on character is pretty great on Callisto
Later on in the game you get a space suit that shines a light in the character faces that makes them look CGI like during gameplay. It's incredible, like Horizon's hero lighting in Alloy during gameplay.
TLOU character models are awesome, but still very stylized and unrealistic. They arent shaded in a way that looks photorealistic.
Pick a photo from Jessie and compare him to the asian girl in Callisto
From Sony 1st party studios, the only game that comes close is Horizon Forbbiden West, imo
I very much disagree
Cant pick examples right now 'cause I'm at work, but I never felt like the other characters werent as detailed as the MC
They never looked out of place.
Hell, even enemies are crazy detailed
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I totally agree, character rendering needs to be on par with whatever they are gonna improve graphically. Having said that, I am not gonna say I am 100% sure that characters will improve but I am like almost certain that they will. No way are they gonna improve the city, lighting, NPCs and everything else and leave the characters behind.
Johnny Concrete
Member
Imo, yes. Loved the graphics and really enjoyed the game.
Here you have John from DF praising the game and also calling it one of the best graphics that he had ever seen
And he knows a thing or two about graphics in games
I love TLOU, but again, it doesnt even come close to this:
So yeah, I think lighting on character is pretty great on Callisto
Later on in the game you get a space suit that shines a light in the character faces that makes them look CGI like during gameplay. It's incredible, like Horizon's hero lighting in Alloy during gameplay.
TLOU character models are awesome, but still very stylized and unrealistic. They arent shaded in a way that looks photorealistic.
Pick a photo from Jessie and compare him to the asian girl in Callisto
From Sony 1st party studios, the only game that comes close is Horizon Forbbiden West, imo
I very much disagree
Cant pick examples right now 'cause I'm at work, but I never felt like the other characters werent as detailed as the MC
They never looked out of place.
Hell, even enemies are crazy detailed
One thing I would give to TLOU is the face rig and animation quality, though.
In Callisto it pretty much looks like they used the raw facial captured data, while Naughty Dog certainly enhances the animations on top of that to get all the little nuances.
But that’s also very much a resource thing of course.
Hugare
Member
For sure
ND is unmatched in terms of animations, both in facial and body movements
I think that facial animations (not so much for body animations) in Callisto are also goddamn amazing, but ND's artists touch up scenes after they have been recorded to make sure that they are perfect
I felt a downgrade in terms of facial animations in cutscenes from TLOU Part II to Part I. Then I discovered that Bend also assisted with cutscene animations in Part I, and I went "a-ha!". They are good, but not ND good.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It looks better than the PS4 game but it could just be a big upgrade like we saw with HFW and HZD. But hey lets assume it will be PS5 only. I think the problem I have with Insomniac is that they are just not that ND, GG, Rockstar and SSM tier studio that wants to be the best of the best. That wants to not just set a new bar but obliterate it. They were given a fantastic oppurtunity with Ratchet but they produced a good looking but rather underwhelming game in all aspects. I was shocked to see them admit that the fancy new SSD tech was only used for setpieces. They shouldve designed the whole game around it otherwise whats the point? They also wasted a good 75% of the GPU on rendering pixels instead of increasing visual fidelity. Targeting native 4k on a 10 tflops GPU makes it a 2.5 tflops game at 1080p. Then you had so much headroom left that they were not just able to do a native 4k 40 fps mode but unlock it so that it goes all the way up to 50 fps. That basically means it couldve run on the PS4 with some cutbacks like RT.Insomniac explicitly stated Spider-Man 2 & Wolverine are PS5 exclusives, so expect a huge PR backlash if there is a PS4 version in the works, which I HIGHLY doubt there is. I think we're about to see a HUGE leap in visual fidelity compared to Spider-Man PS4 & Miles Morales, the first trailer for the game was real-time footage captured running on a PS5. I'm expecting the final product to look much better than that given the amount of dev time they've had since the 2021 showcase, I think Spider-Man 2's gonna be the first true "next-gen" game we'll see next year.
They need to go all out and push Matrix quality visuals and from the pixel counts we have for that Spiderman reveal trailer they are still targeting native 4k. Sorry but you are not getting Matrix level of fidelity at native 4k on a PS5. The pixel counts for Matrix are around 1440p with drops to 1080p at sub 30 fps. If insomniac pulls a native 4k 40 fps image then we are going to get HFW quality visuals at best. And thats without any kind of physics, destruction or NPC sims we expect from next gen.
Maybe Insomniac will finally break the shackles and try and become that elite studio with this game, but right now I have no hope. There is a reason Kojima is the first guy to even come close to the Matrix caliber character models and not Insomniac even though they have been doing next gen dev for years.
clampzyn
Member
They don't need to pull native 4k, they can just go 1440p with FSR upscaled to 4k so they can focus on higher visual or closer to Matrix. I mean Callisto is already good visually that ran on last gen consoles, can't imagine if a first party studio from Sony with high budget goes with pure realism visuals, doesn't need to be a massive open world game, just a decent game.
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Trilobit
Member
Please stop posting amazing media from the Matrix demo! I was so disappointed when I finally got my PS5 and they had removed it from the shop. *shakes fist*
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bentanchorbolt
Banned
RDR2 running on the One X but at 60fps locked would be good enough for me.
ProtoByte
Member
Seems to me that you're not taking a few things into account:
- Optimization: I remember when the PS4 came out running 95% of stuff at native 1080p, people were sure it wouldn't be maintained. It was throughout most of the gen with the best looking games. Exclusives very much included. I'll admit, I was surprised when TLOU2 ran at a locked 1080p after Uncharted 4.
- Last gen engine resources and limitations: Make no mistake, a big part of the work for Forbidden West was making sure the PS4 version was up to snuff. The time they took to tailor Decima to suit the PS5 specifically was minimal - probably more like none. Because any methods they employed to do that wouldn't be workable for PS5.
As it pertains to Ratchet, I think the game is a visual stunner. I'm surprised that's up for debate for such an early gen game, but fine.
The more interesting point is the SSD stuff. And, again, the answer as to why it was setpiece limited is that it's a new functionality in an earlier gen game. It's also Ratchet. Those two together means that Insomniac was never going to be that concerned or with utilizing it to the fullest extent - theybwouldnt have been able to. It's a pretty big design question, don't you think? And no amount of tech is going to answer the question of how best it can be applied to a cohesive game. That takes time, and the right project.
How would you have used the SSD differently for Ratchet? Genuine question.
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Good God, those GIF's you posted from The Matrix and the Lion video reminded me how far off of photorealism we are but at the same time it filled me with hope and excitement as the GIFs are from a demo we played and a video (the Lion one) running on hardware equivalent to current gen consoles.It looks better than the PS4 game but it could just be a big upgrade like we saw with HFW and HZD. But hey lets assume it will be PS5 only. I think the problem I have with Insomniac is that they are just not that ND, GG, Rockstar and SSM tier studio that wants to be the best of the best. That wants to not just set a new bar but obliterate it. They were given a fantastic oppurtunity with Ratchet but they produced a good looking but rather underwhelming game in all aspects. I was shocked to see them admit that the fancy new SSD tech was only used for setpieces. They shouldve designed the whole game around it otherwise whats the point? They also wasted a good 75% of the GPU on rendering pixels instead of increasing visual fidelity. Targeting native 4k on a 10 tflops GPU makes it a 2.5 tflops game at 1080p. Then you had so much headroom left that they were not just able to do a native 4k 40 fps mode but unlock it so that it goes all the way up to 50 fps. That basically means it couldve run on the PS4 with some cutbacks like RT.
They need to go all out and push Matrix quality visuals and from the pixel counts we have for that Spiderman reveal trailer they are still targeting native 4k. Sorry but you are not getting Matrix level of fidelity at native 4k on a PS5. The pixel counts for Matrix are around 1440p with drops to 1080p at sub 30 fps. If insomniac pulls a native 4k 40 fps image then we are going to get HFW quality visuals at best. And thats without any kind of physics, destruction or NPC sims we expect from next gen.
Maybe Insomniac will finally break the shackles and try and become that elite studio with this game, but right now I have no hope. There is a reason Kojima is the first guy to even come close to the Matrix caliber character models and not Insomniac even though they have been doing next gen dev for years.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Lion is running on the PS5 native 4k 30 fps.
New real-time demo, Lion: Unity Art Tools in action and the future of Wētā Digital for RT3D | Unity Blog
Experience our latest real-time demo, Lion, which brings artist tools from Wētā Digital, Ziva, SpeedTree, SyncSketch, and the Unity Editor together for the first time.
Oh wow didn't know it was running on a PS5 even freakin better. I'm telling you guys, these consoles are packed with enough power to offer us games close to photorealism. Now I understand it will be much more difficult to replicate such visual fidelity in a full-blown game but the fact these machines can even run demos that look like this gives me so much hope and fills me with excitement.
I remember DF dissecting The Matrix demo and they said they never thought something with such amazing graphical fidelity will run on these consoles, not even DF thought it was possible but here we are.
Also do you guys remember this tweet from Jason Schreier?
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
No.
Forbidden west is better played for the graphics
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
The Matrix demo exposed pretty much all these hack devs who were trying to pass off Deathloop, Ghostwire tokyo, Forspoken, Returnal, etc as next gen only games.
The PS5 is a great console, but tbh, you can see stuff like that running on the xsx. The true potential of the PS5 is in its IO which isnt being utilized and probably never will be. We wouldve seen it in action by now. It's been almost 3 years since that tweet and we have seen nothing truly revolutionary from first party and third party stuff like the Matrix demo runs on a freaking HDD on PC.
I championed the PS5 hardware for months if not years after the Cerny show, but it's clear now that it is one of those gimmicky things no one is going to actually use. At least the higher clocks helped them close the gap between the higher tflops console.