Halo 5 beta clips leak (sprint, ADS is *not* COD-style) (more clips and info added)

Oct 27, 2004
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I think someone should start a kickstarter for a FPS that can actually follow phenomenal old traditional skill-based FPS direction again. Since with Halo going down this road (and no reason for benefit of the doubt after Halo 4 showed how these sorts of changes destroy what Halo feels like and why it was so uniquely good) there's really going to be close to nothing left in the old tradition.

I bet a kickstarter like that would do quite well. I don't know what talent is out there that still knows how to work on that sort of thing, but there's gotta be someone.

The whole "don't play as Master Chief most of the time" doesn't bother me though since Halo feel is really based around the gameplay, less the character itself. If the character feels authentically Halo, I could be playing as Waldo Emerits Buttersniffs and I'd probably still get engaged.
 
Dec 16, 2009
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Lol this is not some mathematical equation, stop overthinking it in a technical sense. There are so many factors to take into account, map size, verticality, how fast the base speed is anyways etc... You're also assuming everyone will just be sprinting around like its Halo 5: Sprinters. Take a breath, all shall be revealed tomorrow :)
How is my post turning that into some math equation? That's what sprinting does. There's no going around that. There's no over thinking involved.

Slower base speed = crappier strafing that makes it easier for some players to win 1v1s. It was noticeable from Halo 2 to Halo 3.

And I'm not assuming everyone is going to be sprinting around, which is why I said it could work in the game. Having said that, it still means there will be less shooting (slightly) while moving around the map from the very fact that you can't shoot while sprinting. People will use sprint to get around the map as map control is a big deal in Halo.

You lost me from the first sentence. I don't think we should be spouting nonsense like this around here.
It's not nonsense.
 
Oct 6, 2014
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I think someone should start a kickstarter for a FPS that can actually follow phenomenal old traditional skill-based FPS direction again. Since with Halo going down this road (and no reason for benefit of the doubt after Halo 4 showed how these sorts of changes destroy what Halo feels like and why it was so uniquely good) there's really going to be close to nothing left in the old tradition.

I bet a kickstarter like that would do quite well. I don't know what talent is out there that still knows how to work on that sort of thing, but there's gotta be someone.
I don't get this thinking though, why do you want to develop a NEW game with old mechanics (i.e the old gameplay)... Literally you already have that game its called Halo: MCC.

How is my post turning that into some math equation? That's what sprinting does. There's no going around that. There's no over thinking involved.

Slower base speed = crappier strafing that makes it easier for some players to win 1v1s. It was noticeable from Halo 2 to Halo 3.

And I'm not assuming everyone is going to be sprinting around, which is why I said it could work in the game. Having said that, it still means there will be less shooting (slightly) while moving around the map.
I just said it because you keep going from point to point like it's some sort of sequence all the time. Also you just started off with the assumption that the base speed is lower. Also why would there be less shooting? If everyone is reaching their destinations quicker, there would be more fights/gun battles :S
 
Feb 14, 2010
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I think someone should start a kickstarter for a FPS that can actually follow phenomenal old traditional skill-based FPS direction again. Since with Halo going down this road (and no reason for benefit of the doubt after Halo 4 showed how these sorts of changes destroy what Halo feels like and why it was so uniquely good) there's really going to be close to nothing left in the old tradition.

I bet a kickstarter like that would do quite well. I don't know what talent is out there that still knows how to work on that sort of thing, but there's gotta be someone.

The whole "don't play as Master Chief most of the time" doesn't bother me though since Halo feel is really based around the gameplay, less the character itself. If the character feels authentically Halo, I could be playing as Waldo Emerits Buttersniffs and I'd probably still get engaged.
it's not as bad as you think.
 

Vire

DancingJesus
Aug 16, 2009
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I think someone should start a kickstarter for a FPS that can actually follow phenomenal old traditional skill-based FPS direction again. Since with Halo going down this road (and no reason for benefit of the doubt after Halo 4 showed how these sorts of changes destroy what Halo feels like and why it was so uniquely good) there's really going to be close to nothing left in the old tradition.

I bet a kickstarter like that would do quite well. I don't know what talent is out there that still knows how to work on that sort of thing, but there's gotta be someone.

The whole "don't play as Master Chief most of the time" doesn't bother me though since Halo feel is really based around the gameplay, less the character itself. If the character feels authentically Halo, I could be playing as Waldo Emerits Buttersniffs and I'd probably still get engaged.
Maybe Cliffy B's new joint will be some arena shooter action. Or the new UT...

*shrug*
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
Jun 6, 2004
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You lost me from the first sentence. I don't think we should be spouting nonsense like this around here.
Say for example the map size is doubled to accommodate sprint, the base speed also needs to be doubled in order to maintain equal base speed relative to the older games

Otherwise you'll be walking the same speed but moving less relative distance. Look at how massive midship is in the leak vs halo 2..
 
Nov 14, 2005
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Sprinting will mean the base player speed is slower than past Halo games without sprint. That means strafing will suffer and consequently so will 1v1 fights. It also means that game play is slower because you will have to stop sprinting to engage in fights while a higher base speed will cover that distance and also allow you to fight. Finally it makes gun fights seem clanky due to the stop go nature of sprint.

They can still make it work, but I don't see why it should be preferred.

To clarify this post only relates to mp, not single player.
The assumption that ADS would slow you down while aiming is why this thread is as long as it is. Waiting for the reveal before jumping to conclusions again would be the best course of action here.
 
Nov 8, 2013
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Michigan
Lol this is not some mathematical equation, stop overthinking it in a technical sense. There are so many factors to take into account, map size, verticality, how fast the base speed is anyways etc... You're also assuming everyone will just be sprinting around like its Halo 5: Sprinters. Take a breath, all shall be revealed tomorrow :)
No he is right. That is exactly what happened in Reach and 4.
 
T

TrueMenace

Unconfirmed Member
I'm an the oldest of the old Halo players since Halo 1 on Xbox using Gamespy connect to play LAN matches.

Halo died after Halo 2 or 3 (I hated 3 personally) but the games after Halo 3 are not Halo...they are dog shit. Abilities and ADS and sprint...orbital drops???

GET THE F*** OUT OF MY HALO.

/rant.

yea Halo MP will always pail in comparison to the good old Xbox Live days of Halo 2 and 3.
 

Head.spawn

Junior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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So because Counterstrike (a PC game in a completely different industry that doesn't have issues with backwards compatibility) has 250,000 players today out of millions of PC gamers and billions of people means that Halo's gameplay formula is as timeless as a hammer and nail? That uh ... that makes total sense. No further questions.
My bad, I thought you basically said a dated shooter formula doesn't hold up after a decade, so I picked an even older shooter formula that is still relevant this very day. I have no clue wtf the platform or backwards compatibility has to do with the relevance of your statement in comparison to mine.

Oh well.
 
Mar 11, 2014
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Denmark
I just hope the sprinting doesn't feel completely janky like in Halo 4. The camera sway was terrible and it just didn't feel right. They should just look at Reach and Destiny. The sprinting feels perfectly heavy and fast.

I think they're destroying the soul of Halo by adding ADS though. Halo's PvP gunplay was always about maneuvering and outplaying your opponent. Usually ADS reduce movement speed and makes jumping harder. The flow of Halo was always great because shooting was simple but we could focus on full manuverability. Not anymore I guess?
 
Oct 6, 2014
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My bad, I thought you basically said a dated shooter formula doesn't hold up after a decade, so I picked an even older shooter formula that is still relevant this very day. I have no clue wtf the platform or backwards compatibility has to do with the relevance of your statement in comparison to mine.

Oh well.
I'd like to see if valve can keep pulling that off for much longer tbh. I mean what was the wait between CS:Source and CS:GO 10 years or something? Sorry not too familiar with the dates. Anyways, guarantee you it will not keep on going forever if they don't change eventually. Such is the nature of life :(
 
Aug 6, 2013
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People should read this post. There's pretty much nothing to worry about. Scoping is just purely an aesthetic change for zooming (except that it may be applied to all weapons).
Um I am incredibly worried moreso after reading his Twitter. He acknowledges ADS being in the game. No ADS separates Halo from the other shooters. ADS ruins Halo's floaty mechanics. This is unacceptable. Halo 5 will die a short death like 4's multiplayer.
 
Nov 8, 2013
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Michigan
My bad, I thought you basically said a dated shooter formula doesn't hold up after a decade, so I picked an even older shooter formula that is still relevant this very day. I have no clue wtf the platform or backwards compatibility has to do with the relevance of your statement in comparison to mine.

Oh well.
You see FPS's on the PC are a completely different genre than FPS's on consoles. They are absolutely nothing alike because pc players don't like new things, such as new consoles, so they won't buy new games either.
/s
 
Oct 27, 2004
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I don't get this thinking though, why do you want to develop a NEW game with old mechanics (i.e the old gameplay)... Literally you already have that game its called Halo: MCC.
It's simple. Was the "old gameplay" fantastic? Yup. Is it just as good today as it was back then? Yup. Do we have enough room for all types of genre variations? Yup. What value is there in losing an entire old tradition that still rocks? None. What value is there is replacing the old tradition with a billion clone games that all feel the same? None.

My desire is for all gaming needs to be met; the path some are endorsing implicitly (whether they mean to or not) is one that eradicates a specific type entirely. I don't care if there's a million Call of Duty games or a million Final Fantasy XIII games, just as long as there are also a million actual Halo games and a million Bravely Defaults or whatever.

I mean we have the beta coming up and we'll have our definitive stamp on the answer soon enough, but after Halo 4 and seeing 343i's continual bad decisions regarding what makes Halo a Halo game, I don't have much hope. I'm crossing my fingers though. Maybe they'll pull off a miracle, because God I still need some competitive FPS games to hold onto :(

it's not as bad as you think.
It doesn't matter if it's as bad as I think, what matters is we are slowly losing the last vestige of a FPS tradition that is without a doubt still amazing. It's like replacing basketball with Jai alai or something. Some people prefer Jai alai, and nothing wrong with that. But if you lose basketball altogether, that shit is a shame.

Although Halo 4 was essentially an abomination in multiplayer precisely because they started to make changes that were unHalo, and no matter how they put their spin on these things, they are also unHalo. They're something new and different, when I want Halo. And there's plenty of people who will want that new and different and there's no judgment on them... they're entitled to enjoy and desire what they want. I want new and different too, but I don't want them to change the fundamentals of a game series that was so good for very specific reasons. That's why you make new series and give them new names.

But I am saddened. The further gaming goes, the more they kill off some of the greatest genre ideas ever... and replace them with a thousand clones that play exactly the same with minor variations. If you're into the clones that's great for you of course. But for me personally, even if I was into the clone, I'd feel sad that an entire awesome genre philosophy was burnt to the ground. Because that's essentially what has happened to things like the OG Tomb Raider genre and the old school competitive FPS tradition.

It's not about being afraid of change or not liking new things. It's about the disappearance of the old things altogether, even when they're just as good if not better. People keep saying "change is good" and "are you afraid of evolution", but these things are not evolutions whether someone enjoys it or not. They're not inherently better. They're simply different. The problem comes only when that 'different' is all that remains anywhere.

I also don't give 343i the benefit of the doubt. Halo 4 proved that they have little regard for what changes work and keep the authentic Halo feel, and the community reacted. If I was a betting man, I'd wager this will be the same.

Maybe Cliffy B's new joint will be some arena shooter action. Or the new UT...

*shrug*
Isn't that a F2P game?
 
Dec 16, 2009
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The assumption that ADS would slow you down while aiming is why this thread is as long as it is. Waiting for the reveal before jumping to conclusions again would be the best course of action here.
I just said it because you keep going from point to point like it's some sort of sequence all the time. Also you just started off with the assumption that the base speed is lower.
The base speed will be lower or map size will have to be bigger. Sprinting will always be faster than the base speed. Imagine Halo 2's base speed while also allowing you to sprint on midship. The map is now broken and makes it harder to get map control. CTF games for example are done on that map as you can easily sprint out of the base.

Also why would there be less shooting? If everyone is reaching their destinations quicker, there would be more fights/gun battles :S
Reaching their destination quicker while also making it impossible to shoot while sprinting. Before you could shoot while going to a position on the map.

All of this also depends on the starting weapon too. Will there be a shooting mechanic (spread for example) that makes it weaker at longer distances? If you can shoot farther it makes sprinting less of a Plan A as you can be killed easier if you choose a mechanic that leaves you defenseless.

That is why I'm not jumping to conclusions and stating that sprint can't work no matter what or that including it will ruin the game. There are other things to consider so it's best to wait. I'm just stating why I prefer no sprinting.
 
Jul 4, 2012
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I think someone should start a kickstarter for a FPS that can actually follow phenomenal old traditional skill-based FPS direction again. Since with Halo going down this road (and no reason for benefit of the doubt after Halo 4 showed how these sorts of changes destroy what Halo feels like and why it was so uniquely good) there's really going to be close to nothing left in the old tradition.

I bet a kickstarter like that would do quite well. I don't know what talent is out there that still knows how to work on that sort of thing, but there's gotta be someone.

The whole "don't play as Master Chief most of the time" doesn't bother me though since Halo feel is really based around the gameplay, less the character itself. If the character feels authentically Halo, I could be playing as Waldo Emerits Buttersniffs and I'd probably still get engaged.
Or not: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/191095869/reflex

Small sample size, though. And the australian/uk kickstarter is terrible.
 

Head.spawn

Junior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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I'd like to see if valve can keep pulling that off for much longer tbh. I mean what was the wait between CS:Source and CS:GO 10 years or something? Sorry not too familiar with the dates. Anyways, guarantee you it will not keep on going forever if they don't change eventually. Such is the nature of life :(
You gotta admit though, 15 years and still taking names is not a bad run.
 
Oct 27, 2004
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Or not: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/191095869/reflex

Small sample size, though. And the australian/uk kickstarter is terrible.
Yeah I never even heard of that shit. I'd like to see an attempt with a few really big names attached. That's usually what starts getting these sorts of kickstarters blowing up.

I'd also like to see one down for an OG Tomb Raider style game with many some of the OG Tomb Raider team supporting it. It'd be interesting to see how much interest is left for these genre types.
 
Apr 1, 2013
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This.

They don't give a fuck about whether the game is good, only that it sells a billion copies and makes all the money. So much shit being pumped out by the industry lately.
This is one of the problems within the gaming industry of today.

I imagine that the huge sales that Microsoft & 343i had gotten with Halo 4 has contributed to this problem, otherwise, they would've start listening to their fans on what they want.
 
I'm curious as to how they are going to make a trailer showing gameplay without massive asterisks saying "this isn't COD ADS". People who don't browse forums are going to be very confused and/or very angry.
Hell, dudes in this thread decrying death of Halo or not even attempting to read the first post in the thread and shit like this guy:

I think they're destroying the soul of Halo by adding ADS though. Halo's PvP gunplay was always about maneuvering and outplaying your opponent. Usually ADS reduce movement speed and makes jumping harder. The flow of Halo was always great because shooting was simple but we could focus on full manuverability. Not anymore I guess?
lol

Tomorrow will be chaotic
 
It's obviously so they can add different sights and reticle customizations to the XP unlock system.
honestly, I'd be ok with them selling that kind of cosmetic shit as DLC. I am DONE with them splitting up the community/playlists between dudes who have the maps and those that dont. Find some other revenue stream, pls.
 
Jul 29, 2010
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www.neogaf.com
honestly, I'd be ok with them selling that kind of shit as DLC. I am DONE with them splitting up the community/playlists between dudes who have the maps and does that done. Find some other revenue stream, pls.
Oh, I was thinking of it like CoD Blops

"Get 200 kills while ADS with the BR to unlock a smiley face reticle for your red dot sight"
 
Sep 28, 2012
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I'm curious as to how they are going to make a trailer showing gameplay without massive asterisks saying "this isn't COD ADS". People who don't browse forums are going to be very confused and/or very angry.
ya this seems like an unnecessary hurdle they've placed for themselves. it's still a year out though and the ViDocs might be able to clear it up for those who miss the beta.
 
Oct 27, 2004
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It's going to be on their livestream at 11PM EST twitch.tv/xbox iirc
Thank you DopeyFish. Glad to see we'll be able to analyze the systems in more depth shortly.

It is. UT4 will not be free to play though. Although that won't be in beta stage until 2015 or 2016
Yeah, F2P kinda scares me off. It's not impossible to work but I'm a bit more pessimistic from the start on those sorts of things.

Wait UT4 is a thing!? Oh God, I gotta pull up my lawn chair and pray to the gaming Gods that remains in the old tradition. This brightens up my day :D
 
Dec 9, 2013
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I'm not sure why they have to go and do all this spinning of the ADS thing to make it sound not ADS. I mean...whats the fuckin' point of adding it then, just as visual shorthand for CoD kids?
yeah. it's just a visual queue to make them feel more comfortable. whether people want to admit it or not destiny and cod are huge.

I'm curious as to how they are going to make a trailer showing gameplay without massive asterisks saying "this isn't COD ADS". People who don't browse forums are going to be very confused and/or very angry.
that's why there is a beta