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Halo |OT14| They call it Halo

Beat the campaign again yesterday, like it a lot more now. Story is still a mess, but I still had a lot of fun.

One thing I noticed, though, is that at the start of Midnight, the music is almost perfectly synched to doing a no-deaths trench run. The first part of '117' ends right as you exit unto the weapons platform. The moment you get squished by a flying block or a spire you could barely see, the music gets fucked.
 

broony

Member
COMEBACK KILL! DISTRACTION! ORDNANCE READY! Unlocking armor, weapons, abilities, perks, commendations, generic kill medals - rewards every step of the way.

This game is practically begging to suck our dicks. Maybe some people stopped playing because it was using too much teeth.
Hi.

I wasn't talking about it in that context. More how lots of people are demanding the developer makes everything same as it ever was. If they don't they have a breakdown and demand everyone panders to their demands.
 

Madness

Member
Hi.

I wasn't talking about it in that context. More how lots of people are demanding the developer makes everything same as it ever was. If they don't they have a breakdown and demand everyone panders to their demands.

I don't think anyone's asking that at all. They're only asking you try and maintain the original spirit of halo, an arena shooter where two men enter, the better man leaves, the lesser man is re spawning.

It's like asking someone who plays chess and spends years learning moves and strategy to try their hand at blackjack. Sure it can be fun, but there's a random element/luck that is taken into account.

You can innovate as long as everything remains fair. I think weapons and power ups are a great way to innovate gameplay. Some people will complain and say that it wasn't fun having fights at key weapon spawns, but I say that is some of the most fun. For example, the mad dash for rockets on spawn in the pit.

343 has nailed gameplay implementation. A lot of the problem is, they've introduced superman abilities to be used at will. Invincibility, invisibility, x ray vision, even flight (jetpack).

It's not fun to me to have everyone have camo and binary rifles and spartan lasers making btb into a big heavies match.

I'm sorry if I make no sense because I start rambling because I cannot get my point across. Something like a grenade launcher, a sticky detonator, a rail gun, that is innovative to me because it adds to the sandbox. Already I have a file share of some random on my team tag my warthog with a sticky detonator and as soon as I got jacked, he detonated to get a kill.

I miss map control, stealth, etc. 3x scope dmr, personal ordnance, make it pointless. Imagine how halo 2 or halo 3 would play if you had a weapon that can shoot almost cross map and that you didn't even need to fight for weapons, you could just sit back and get your own power weapon. I've seen guys never leave the spawns on exile and just sit there pinging guys and getting assists and kills and then getting snipers or power weapons.
 
Hi.

I wasn't talking about it in that context. More how lots of people are demanding the developer makes everything same as it ever was. If they don't they have a breakdown and demand everyone panders to their demands.
I don't think those people wanted Halo 4 to be the same camo jetpackin' DMR game that Reach was.
 
I'll look up specifics later, but having re-listened to it, surprisingly a lot of the melodies lend themselves to the original game. A few obvious ones like Mjolnir Mix and Thermopylae Soon are based on the main theme. A large majority of the choral tracks are from the Title Theme, there are a few other oddballs though. For example, Heretic, Hero is just A Walk In The Woods with more apparent percussion and shows up three or four times in the game.

A large majority of original content from Halo 2 is just ambience, such as what you hear in Sacred Icon. I know it's hard to accept, but go back and listen to Halo CE's OST and then 2's in one go and it becomes surprising.

Even In Amber Clad borrows the bassline from Under Cover of Night or something if I'm remembering right.

I can understand the point that a lot of Halo 2's music is ambiance (though that doesn't make it any less awesome). However, "A Walk in the Woods" and "Heretic, Hero," and "In Amber Clad" and "Under Cover of Night," are nothing alike. They are all very different songs.
 
Things like the Forerunner symbol thing in the Cartographer room, "Would it have killed you to take the elevator," and the radio stuff at the beginning of the mission gave me the impression that there would be a bunch of moments like that where you could explore the levels and find little things the Chief and Cortana would talk about, but that pretty much stopped right away. It's a shame, that would have been a nice way to encourage exploration and trying different things.
It is definitely my biggest complain. Requiem is a great level but there were plenty of opportunities to add more background information of the Forerunners. A shame.
 

snakegriffin

Neo Member
Used to be my favorite playlist, but it's turning into an endless run of Ragnarok and Exile DMR-fests where all you do is hide behind rocks and pray you see the other guy first. Shoot three times, hide, rinse, repeat. Not. Fun.
 

Moa

Member
Used to be my favorite playlist, but it's turning into an endless run of Ragnarok and Exile DMR-fests where all you do is hide behind rocks and pray you see the other guy first. Shoot three times, hide, rinse, repeat. Not. Fun.

R2Q07PB.jpg
 

Omni

Member
Used to be my favorite playlist, but it's turning into an endless run of Ragnarok and Exile DMR-fests where all you do is hide behind rocks and pray you see the other guy first. Shoot three times, hide, rinse, repeat. Not. Fun.

Gave up on BTB with Halo 4... Too much of a clusterfuck. It was alright in Reach until the shitty forge maps were put in (In the sense that Blood Gulch was at least playable).

CTF, IMO, is the only playlist left in Halo 4 that's worth playing
 
Halo 2 /3 are played out. We don't need another one. Halo 4 is ridiculously fresh. So much potential if people can get over the fact it is not halo 2/3.

Er 'FIFA is played out. We don't need another one. FIFA Super Kick!: Blatter Op's ( where there are now 14 players on each team who wear rocket packs to fly over the midfield but the goal keeper has a 'Goal Lock Shield' which expels the ball from the goal when it threatens to cross the line but you can only use it once every twelve seconds so it's totally balanced) is ridiculously fresh.

Except FIFA has never changed the core of the game because it's based on a real life game which has thrived for over a century. Only the players change, not the core game. FIFA has sold the same core game, every year, for over two decades. They choose to improve the surrounding features and optimise the engine instead of fiddling with the game. The same can be said of COD for the last half decade, to incredible success. 'If it isn't broke, don't fix it' goes the old saying. The core principles of Halo's gameplay were not broken, as testified to by Halo 3 being in the top 3 played games years after its release. It was after Halo changed itself considerably that the franchise stared to falter.

If you went back to 2008, where Halo was top of the Live charts, professional Halo players had $250,000 contracts and Halo WAS Mlg, there were fiendishly addictive 1-50 ranked playlists and the developers didn't look to inferior franchises for gameplay ideas; if you went back to then, looked into a crystal ball and in a mere five years saw a Halo game which had exclusively social playlists, had, in two months from release, slipped to third behind an 8 bit PC port, had been completely dropped from MLG, had predominantly drab, oversized maps (even the DLC), didn't work in splitscreen and people were looking through walls ( as a spawn ability no less) and spawning with plasma pistols in BTB, you'd wonder where it all went wrong and pray that you DO get another Halo 2/3.
 

malfcn

Member
Don't think I will get an Infinity prize. Climbed to 562 last night, and need to get into the 400s. Shouldn't have taken a few nights off.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
Is there anything mentioned in the article that isn't mentioned here, that may be considered mildly interesting?

It was mainly a general piece on the studio and how they've adjusted their culture and how they do things around there since becoming free from Microsoft. Also kind of generally talks about how they're planning Destiny out very well from the beginning due to what they learned from Halo and their time with Microsoft. It makes it a point to mention how Bungie made it a point to keep the IP theirs and to have control over it. It's actually interesting read but don't expect any real news out of it.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
Spartan Ops Season 2 Walkthrough: Get your sneak peek of the events in Season 2 of Spartan Ops in this 343 Industries Walkthrough with Mission Designer David Ellis!

Looks fantastic.

Hmm. That does look interesting. Hopefully it holds true. I know he's being honest and saying that they will reuse spaces but that they've designed for that. I really do hope so. I did notice though that the level certainly seemed more campaign like which I do like.
 

Alchemical

Neo Member
[...]

If you went back to 2008, where Halo was top of the Live charts, professional Halo players had $250,000 contracts and Halo WAS Mlg, there were fiendishly addictive 1-50 ranked playlists and the developers didn't look to inferior franchises for gameplay ideas; if you went back to then, looked into a crystal ball and in a mere five years saw a Halo game which had exclusively social playlists, had, in two months from release, slipped to third behind an 8 bit PC port, had been completely dropped from MLG, had predominantly drab, oversized maps (even the DLC), didn't work in splitscreen and people were looking through walls ( as a spawn ability no less) and spawning with plasma pistols in BTB, you'd wonder where it all went wrong and pray that you DO get another Halo 2/3.

Great post. Fully agree with this. I do sometimes wonder how successful Halo would be if it had simply stayed true to (what appeared to be) its core principles since inception. I was obviously hoping that Halo 4 would embody the proof that such a game could still sell well and continue to have a healthy population for years after release. The additions and evolution from CE - 3 were appreciable, but managed to stay just within the confines of those set out in CE.

Sadly all I can do at this point is that; wonder, since the opportunity to test out the theory that a straight-up, no frills Arena shooter with extremely well-constructed maps, specifically designed around corresponding gametypes would sell well in this era of FPS gaming does not exist.

On the topic of music, I remember being a little let down when I started using Edirol Orchestral in my music productions and realised that the string sounds were eerily reminiscent of Marty's work on CE. I may be wrong here (haven't researched it), but the tone of the strings in that game sounds very Edirol to me. That's not to say they're bad (far from it), I just assumed that Bungie would've provided Marty with the funds to buy a more professional virtual orchestral instrument, like Vienna Symphonic or something.
 
Much better. Why is Gametrailers calling it season 2 though?
'Cos they have no clue about gaming. Why do Gametrailers spoil the whole game in their video reviews? Question you have to ask.

Is there anything mentioned in the article that isn't mentioned here, that may be considered mildly interesting?

edit: the link should work now
There is definitely more. But I can't check out the issue because this Zinio Reader 4 is fucked up.
 
Last night I stumbled into some customs on lockout w/o Sprint BR Starts on lockout. I think the host was a friend of a friend.

I enjoyed the throwback settings and all, but it took some getting adjusted to. I'm now a firm believer that BR starts in H4 would eliminate alot of my issues with the larger maps.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
On the topic of music, I remember being a little let down when I started using Edirol Orchestral in my music productions and realised that the string sounds were eerily reminiscent of Marty's work on CE. I may be wrong here (haven't researched it), but the tone of the strings in that game sounds very Edirol to me. That's not to say they're bad (far from it), I just assumed that Bungie would've provided Marty with the funds to buy a more professional virtual orchestral instrument, like Vienna Symphonic or something.

I've always loved the strings in CE, and I was happy they kept a similar sound for the CEA orchestration. Especially on Truth and Reconciliation Suite here @3:45 or so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VQPFpIjz18&t=3m40s

The strings in CE were always threatening to go into this sort of sharp Celtic, high-register sound that I loved.

Also, the CEA music reminded me how much I loved just the plain monks with reverb. So quiet and simple, really, but so powerful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_eiVgEp1q8

Give me more monks in Halo 5 and I'll probably be happy.* I'm remarkably easy to please.

*Also no actual words in the chants, please. That's partly what separates it and makes it sound unique from the usual Sanskrit chants in every Hollywood film since Episode I.
 

kylej

Banned
Er 'FIFA is played out. We don't need another one. FIFA Super Kick!: Blatter Op's ( where there are now 14 players on each team who wear rocket packs to fly over the midfield but the goal keeper has a 'Goal Lock Shield' which expels the ball from the goal when it threatens to cross the line but you can only use it once every twelve seconds so it's totally balanced) is ridiculously fresh.

Except FIFA has never changed the core of the game because it's based on a real life game which has thrived for over a century. Only the players change, not the core game. FIFA has sold the same core game, every year, for over two decades. They choose to improve the surrounding features and optimise the engine instead of fiddling with the game. The same can be said of COD for the last half decade, to incredible success. 'If it isn't broke, don't fix it' goes the old saying. The core principles of Halo's gameplay were not broken, as testified to by Halo 3 being in the top 3 played games years after its release. It was after Halo changed itself considerably that the franchise stared to falter.

If you went back to 2008, where Halo was top of the Live charts, professional Halo players had $250,000 contracts and Halo WAS Mlg, there were fiendishly addictive 1-50 ranked playlists and the developers didn't look to inferior franchises for gameplay ideas; if you went back to then, looked into a crystal ball and in a mere five years saw a Halo game which had exclusively social playlists, had, in two months from release, slipped to third behind an 8 bit PC port, had been completely dropped from MLG, had predominantly drab, oversized maps (even the DLC), didn't work in splitscreen and people were looking through walls ( as a spawn ability no less) and spawning with plasma pistols in BTB, you'd wonder where it all went wrong and pray that you DO get another Halo 2/3.

some of the realest shit I've ever read in one of these threads. put this in the OP instead of all that wikipedia-lite garbage
 

Toa TAK

Banned
While I prefer the original Halo CE soundtrack, I really dig some of the remade music.

Installation 04, First Step, Unless You Mean To Shoot, Arborea Above, Demons and Heretics, and even How to Get Ahead in War.

There are also a few I wasn't a fan of, such as Bravery, Brotherhood, An End of Dying, Pale Rider, and Choregraphite. Not because they were bad, but it ruined the flow for me a few times because the original songs are imprinted in my brain.
 

Madness

Member
I've always loved the strings in CE, and I was happy they kept a similar sound for the CEA orchestration. Especially on Truth and Reconciliation Suite here @3:45 or so: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VQPFpIjz18&t=3m40s

The strings in CE were always threatening to go into this sort of sharp Celtic, high-register sound that I loved.

Also, the CEA music reminded me how much I loved just the plain monks with reverb. So quiet and simple, really, but so powerful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_eiVgEp1q8

Give me more monks in Halo 5 and I'll probably be happy.* I'm remarkably easy to please.

*Also no actual words in the chants, please. That's partly what separates it and makes it sound unique from the usual Sanskrit chants in every Hollywood film since Episode I.

This... I don't get how or why they didn't add the monks in this game. Especially as it's a numbered halo. Why we got some tribal wailing at the start that has nothing to do with the campaign instead of the monks just shows me how removed from what Halo fans want, 343 were in their rush to make this game their own. The monks and then the final level theme from CE are some of the most recognized music pieces in gaming. Here's hoping Frankie fixes this for halo 5.

And I know what you're saying, but come on they even used the monks in the reveal trailer for halo 4, how hard was it to carry them over to the final game? Does anyone even like the new wailing that starts in the new game?
 

Korosenai

Member
If you went back to 2008, where Halo was top of the Live charts, professional Halo players had $250,000 contracts and Halo WAS Mlg, there were fiendishly addictive 1-50 ranked playlists and the developers didn't look to inferior franchises for gameplay ideas; if you went back to then, looked into a crystal ball and in a mere five years saw a Halo game which had exclusively social playlists, had, in two months from release, slipped to third behind an 8 bit PC port, had been completely dropped from MLG, had predominantly drab, oversized maps (even the DLC), didn't work in splitscreen and people were looking through walls ( as a spawn ability no less) and spawning with plasma pistols in BTB, you'd wonder where it all went wrong and pray that you DO get another Halo 2/3.
Great post.
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
there were fiendishly addictive 1-50 ranked playlists

Those fiendishly addictive ranked playlists consistently had lower populations than the exact same playlists without ranks.

Your rose tinted look back pretty much ignores the rise of COD and a host of changing habbits from players. So many external factors have shaped, defined and changed the industry since then.

Don't get me wrong, I want Halo 3.5 as much as the next person here, but biased nostalgia won't help you get over it's absence.
 
Off Topic

Speaking of dead space I just played the dead space 3 demo and really enjoyed it.
Feels a bit like ME2 in terms of combat. Cant remember how DS1 felt but it was much more stiff I believe.

DS3 kind of pushes towards the action more and less the horror which is fine by me.

not at all, Dead Space was born to be an pshycological horror game with clunky control because he is a damn engineer not a soldier. in Dead Space 2 it was ok, he was still using his engineer tools to survive but in DS3 loooks like commander Shepard fighting Cerberus while both being attacked by the Flood. some of the new lore doesnt quit fit actually.

Just saying.
 
Farewell Gazzawa. Hope you get a woman in Austrailia because damn you struggled in Ireland. Enjoy your cheap ass gaming with Aussie prices.
 
Guys I figured it out. The monks were in Halo 1-3 and not in Reach or H4. It's not the gameplay that makes the games good, it's the monks. It's all about the monks, the fabric of the game relies on their chants. We've been looking at this all wrong

What about ODST?

sub game, doesn't count. stay on topic man
 

Toa TAK

Banned
Guys I figured it out. The monks were in Halo 1-3 and not in Reach or H4. It's not the gameplay that makes the games good, it's the monks. It's all about the monks, the fabric of the game relies on their chants. We've been looking at this all wrong

What about ODST?

not at all, Dead Space was born to be an pshycological horror game with clunky control because he is a damn engineer not a soldier. in Dead Space 2 it was ok, he was still using his engineer tools to survive but in DS3 loooks like commander Shepard fighting Cerberus while both being attacked by the Flood. some of the new lore doesnt quit fit actually.

Just saying.

That's what I really like about DS1. The dude was an engineer and was mainly defending himself with tools. It was a creative view on the weapons as opposed to just being given guns. You can see the uses for the Plasma Cutter and Force gun.
 

willow ve

Member
Those fiendishly addictive ranked playlists consistently had lower populations than the exact same playlists without ranks.

Your rose tinted look back pretty much ignores the rise of COD and a host of changing habbits from players. So many external factors have shaped, defined and changed the industry since then.

Don't get me wrong, I want Halo 3.5 as much as the next person here, but biased nostalgia won't help you get over it's absence.

Of course they had lower populations. One list allowed guests, one list didn't. It doesn't make it any less "fiendishly addictive."

And I feel like I need to bring this up again. I might be the only one arguing it, but seriously, this whole "the industry changed" and "gamers desires changed due to COD" has got to stop. I posted this a few OT's back, but it needs to be said again.

vvvvvvvv

People always make a big deal of how "Halo simply MUST change now that the gaming landscape has changed" - the argument is that with the rise of games like the Call of Duty franchise and the explosion in popularity then Halo MUST go down that path to compete. And I am sick and tired of this line of reasoning.

The last time that Halo was king of the hill
RIP King of the Hill
was when the were decisively different than all other first person shooters on the market. It's possible that the gaming market has changed, for better or worse, but it's also possible that Halo has lost all of this market share, and longevity, simply because it changed the Halo formula to become more like the other games.

If we look at the history of Xbox Live and the first person shooter multiplayer genre in general the simplest explanation is that Halo changed - it is much more complex to think that millions upon millions of players simultaneously decided that they wanted unlocking perks, weapons, attachments, kill streaks, etc., and that's why they moved away from the Halo franchise. And when you follow this convoluted and erroneous line of reasoning you end up with Halo 4. A game that at the core does actually "feel like Halo," but has so many poor gameplay decisions layered on top of it that you can't ever get down to that "feel" unless you arrange some custom games and/or play with modded/hacked game files.

The hook of the Halo series (most notably in 2 and 3) was an irresistible siren call to gaming. Due to the ranking systems in place you actually cared about winning or losing (and if you didn't care it didn't really matter - you would soon be separated from those that did care and wouldn't ever match with them again). With the "grind-it-out-experience-bar-of-neverending-dangling-carrots" system in place, winning means almost nothing compared to playing selfishly and ignoring both teammates and objectives. While ranking systems may have led to griefing, deranking, or boosting and selling accounts the current experience system leads to selfish, boring, gameplay with no incentive to play the game other than to work on your chosen weapon commendation, unlock a new visor color, etc., most of which does not promote winning or team play.

The numbers don't lie. The last time Halo was the unequivocally most played game in the Xbox world was when it was an arena shooter.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Of course they had lower populations. One list allowed guests, one list didn't. It doesn't make it any less "fiendishly addictive."

If they were fiendishly addictive then people would have paid the Gold subscription so they could splitscreen in ranked playlists.

As it is, ranked is one of the proven ways to drop a playlist's population, even if it has the same configuration as the unranked version, including not allowing guests.
 

willow ve

Member
If they were fiendishly addictive then people would have paid the Gold subscription so they could splitscreen in ranked playlists.

As it is, ranked is one of the proven ways to drop a playlist's population, even if it has the same configuration as the unranked version, including not allowing guests.

Just because their are less people playing it does not correlate with the amount of people addicted to that playlist. Without retention numbers similar to "ZZZ gamertag played X hours of social" vs "YYY gamertag played X hours of ranked" we can't truly argue the addictive quality of the ranked playlists.

Merely excluding guests from a playlist will, by default, limit the amount of players who are in that playlist. Just as requiring DLC will limit players - it's a paywall that not all players, gamers, friends, etc., are willing or able to pay.

Following your reasoning to the ridiculous maximum, even the fact that there are guests at all proves that the Halo games in their entirety aren't in the least bit "addictive"; otherwise no one would ever be a guest because they would all purchase a 360 and have a gold account because they just really want to play Halo.

Why do Halo games have so many guests/splitscreen players ??

Maybe because they allow it? BF3 doesn't allow split screen. And for a long time the COD franchise didn't allow it either (although Black Ops II has split screen multiplayer - not sure about guests)
 
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