Hypertrooper
Member
Because of the discussion, I was asking myself why no one did a Reach version of the Opreah Bees gif? Just imagine: Countdown is shown, and then the Oprah gif starts. But this time with the text "Grenades".
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Halo |OT9| One Final Effort Is All That Remains
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
She just changed her name to Oprah, I'm sure he hasn't heard yet.
Shake Appeal
Member
This is a weird thing to say when a lot of the posts above yours are concerned with how heavily 343 (and presumably Bungie) rely heavily on map/gametype stats generated by the playerbase. My suspicion would actually be that they don't have a sufficiently singular vision, and try, at the expense of coherency, to please everyone.
Gabotron ES
Member
I have lots of fun with heavies, finishing with some crazy K/D without even touching a vehicle feels great...
plus getting laser kill medals with my AR feels SO GOOD!
Hopefully it'll be in H4.
plus getting laser kill medals with my AR feels SO GOOD!
Hopefully it'll be in H4.
Skill actually kind of works there. But, it's in terms of degree of skill. I think using a DMR effectively while strafing/evading takes MORE skill then driving around in a tank with one hit killing ability and more armor. Usually if you shoot with the tank you're going to get the kill. Big splash and total damage. Where as with the DMR you can miss several shots and get killed much more easily. That takes much MORE skill to use. It requires much more work. I think someone who has never touched Halo would have an easier time stringing a few kills with the tank or with the gauss than they would on their feet with a DMR.
And please, no Heavies in H4. Save BTB.
Silphonica
Banned
It saddens me that most people forgot about the Breaking benjamin song in Halo 2, and that epic moment when it kicked in.
That was awesome.
Edit: Stinkles, the term "no skill" might be over used, but in all honesty it's all about the gap in terms of a competitive standpoint. Somethings have a larger learning curve than others, and standpoints with the larger skill gap hold more competitive merit than something that takes significantly less time for a larger range of people to accomplish.
That was awesome.
Edit: Stinkles, the term "no skill" might be over used, but in all honesty it's all about the gap in terms of a competitive standpoint. Somethings have a larger learning curve than others, and standpoints with the larger skill gap hold more competitive merit than something that takes significantly less time for a larger range of people to accomplish.
The playlist management has always been a team, they just no longer have a visible public
GodlyPerfection
Member
I like this idea and it isn't something I would have previously thought of. There is the happenstance where people will start to second guess there decision on whether they would like a random or stick with it. This can be both good and bad.
I do think your solution, while quick to playing, leads to a feeling of "this is the best I'm gonna get and I'd rather not have random". Data mining wise while the each decision is easily analyzed via "this or that, or I'd rather take the risk of having something completely different than these" I feel like we wouldn't really get to the heart of what people like, and instead push towards what people don't like. Of course the default choices (top most typically) tend to screw with this analysis at times, but you can weed out situations where the top most option was chosen. And when you only have two options it is hard to tell if someone really picked the top one or just selected it because it was the top most while 3 options gives you a little more buffer for that without overcrowding with choices.
Agreed, I respect MLGs approach to narrowing variables to make technique superiority more visible, but I dislike that they dismiss other aspects like the technique revolving around dual-wielding weapons in H2/3. I loved 1v1ing try hards on The Pit and promising to beat them without a single non-dualwieldable weapon.
SMG, Spiker, Plasma pistol/rifle, Magnums, and Mauler FTW! I thought that as well and then realized that it could result in more people getting accidentally pushed into the least popular stuff. How about moving it to the second slot to improve visibility being closer to the inattentive default and keeping the the popular at the bottom and second popular at the top. That way if you get stuck with inattentive or indecisive players you at least get second best.
Hehehe... essentially what he says... lol. Trying to address these as fast as possible in order. Sometimes convos move really fast.
Without question. And it's arguable that at least on some Halo games, Sniping requires mastery of a more difficult skill than DMR - and then you look at team games - where coordination and communication become a layer on top of that, which isn't precisely skill, but feeds into the individuals performance and is certainly a factor of their skill. Again my point has nothing to do with some spectrum of superiority, and everything to do with semantics and cliques of game styles.
I'm saying the entire concept of playlists is outdated. There should maybe be a certain grouping of fixed playlists for the more casual audience, but experienced Halo players don't need someone else to cater their experience -- I don't need 343 to please me, I know what I want to play.
GodfatherX
Member
apologies if this has been answered already, but the Light Rifle transform animation from the E3 demo and from the new vidoc are different, are their multiple transform animations for each gun? or did it just change
A preference menu where you can pick what maps/gametypes you enjoy, and which ones you don't ever want to play. MM puts you with players that have similar preferences, and weighting is adjusted accordingly. Everyone wins.
It seems like it would work, as long as those preference options actually have code behind them this time.
Der Flatulator
Member
Custom games would like to have a word with you...
The first time you pick up/reload a Forerunner weapon in campaign it does a super cool animation.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the E3 demo was really butchered, right?
That might be the reason.
And it's an old build.
Shake Appeal
Member
I think the benefits of playlists far outweigh the problems with them, especially since Microsoft will never allow people to run their Xboxes as dedicated servers. You already have a friends list and the option to play custom games. A custom game browser would degenerate into cliquey bootfests and a range of about three or four map/gametype combinations. And it would cannibalize the playlist populations. Playlists do a more than adequate job of curating decent experiences between strangers, provided the curators are on their game.
Also, you do need 343 to please you. Hint: they make the game you are so, so not looking forward to playing day-in, day-out for the next two years.
Tha Robbertster
Member
I thought Frankie or David said that the animation for picking up the weapon for the first time is different from the standard pick up animation.
GodlyPerfection
Member
You also have to consider the difficulty in minor details like acquiring the tank. Based on my playstyle I think using Active Camo at close range with the radar jamming notifying your opponent and having them actively look for you while you try to avoid them for the assassination requires more skill than your average DMR duel. But of course that is an opinion and a ton of factors are involved. Frequency of a situation like mine versus the frequency of a DMR duel is one thing. There are also other skills in work here like situational awareness, psychological warfare, etc. I think the DMR/BR duel is frequently seen as skill due to its frequency more than anything. In Halo 3 the magnum took loads more practice to use well than the BR, but it was never really a measuring stick for "skill". So accessibility and viability comes into play as well.
Lots of factors basically and boiling it down to a few factors is fine, but having it be the be-all determinant is unfair to other things that require an apt amount of deftness.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
So what do you suggest for more experienced Halo players?
Hydranockz
Member
How does that differ from, say, only having certain DLC on Reach? We know Reach tries to match players with similar DLC (alternatively they are just lists of the maps they want to play). I'm positive waiting times for matches would only become longer much like they are when you filter by good connection. More filters is more player choice, yes, but those filters would do horrible things definitely in the later years for any game.
That's what StarCraft 2 does. Much easier to pull off there and not Halo because of all the different gametype. In StarCraft 2 theres a map pool and you pick 3 maps you don't like. I've yet to play on a map I don't like. Again, it would be more difficult to pull of in Halo.
Der Flatulator
Member
You must be mistaken. It is impossible to use the Halo 3 magnum well.
GodlyPerfection
Member
That's actually something I've suggested a few times here and there. It is a great idea and it could pair the minorities first before hitting the majorities. Someone going in with Grifball, Team Slayer, SWAT, and Action Sack checked on their preferences would be matched based on the lowest population of the selected preference working upwards. So in this case more than likely Action Sack if there are other people available for it, if not step it up. This guarantees that niches get filled with the chance that people still play something they want. Say like sometimes I'm feeling like both SWAT and Snipers and it would be cool to go in with both selected and getting a healthy dosage of either. Or Arena and MLG. Or Action Sack and Infection.
Shake Appeal
Member
...and because Starcraft doesn't typically involve herding a minimum of 8 players to set up a game.
GodlyPerfection
Member
My few amount of H3 matchmaking games on my GodlyPerfection GT ignoring my prior GT would like to have a word with you:
http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/careerstats.aspx?player=GodlyPerfection
EDIT: So it isn't great, but I did fine with it and out played decent BR players.
Hydranockz
Member
It would have certainly worked in a FireFight mode or something but I don't think it would scale to 16 player games or even 8 player games.
GodlyPerfection
Member
Because it completely replaces playlist selection and strictly makes it via preference. So those that want to play Team Slayer and don't mind a little Action Sack here and there can help add to the population of that preference while not taking them away from their want to play Team Slayer.
GodfatherX
Member
for example
from the new vidoc
from the e3 demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N-CRrP9xjQt=5m8s
or is this the particle rifle? havent been able too pay attention to the discussion here the past week or so
from the new vidoc
from the e3 demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N-CRrP9xjQt=5m8s
or is this the particle rifle? havent been able too pay attention to the discussion here the past week or so
Matchmaking management already cannibalizes playlist populations. As for your last statement, I expected better than responding with irrelevant semantics when you clearly know what I meant.
You're talking about a game that doesn't allow you to play classic CTF, doesn't allow you to change any part of your HUD, and provides you with 5 fixed control schemes. That ain't happening. Remember, as long as you let people change the camo on their gun, that's enough of an illusion of player choice that the masses won't complain.
And in regards to my playlist statement, before someone says "lol custom browser u r dumb other games have it and it sucks", I remember when Halo was a franchise that was a trailblazer. It solved problems nobody else could or introduced systems that influenced an industry. Now it seems Halo is happy to ride coattails and stagnate. 5 years ago, Halo 3 introduced a Theater mode. It was pretty amazing. 5 years later, Blops 2 is releasing a robust live-streaming mode with competitive trappings, while Halo fans are hoping we get to upload videos to YouTube. 8 years ago we got a ranking system to pair people up in skill online, now Blops 2 is launching with a full-scale Starcraft-esque ranking system to encourage competitive play, while Halo fans are hoping there's any type of ranking system at all. But yes, I know COD doesn't have a Forge mode. This is not a good thing. Consumers should not be proud to use different absent features as a one-up in an argument.
When did we go from the series that brought FPS games to consoles and then brought them online with its sequel, to hoping the next game has control schemes from previous releases?
GodlyPerfection
Member
That's the binary rifle in the new vidoc, not the light rifle. You can tell via the clip size.
EDIT: I'm in a very post-y mood today.
I would like to have something like in StarCraft2, where you can veto out 3 maps per playlist, that way, you could avoid certain maps, that are horrible to you.
An issue with harder preference options is you just end up with virtual playlists that exist inside other playlists. Much like if you had a hard option in Reach to only play DLC, you'd essentially be making 6 clones of each list - normal, DLC Noble, DLC Defiant, DLC Anniversary, DLC Noble + Defiant , DLC Noble + Anni, DLC Defiant + Anni. Instead of having 20 playlists you'd have, functionally, 120. Search times would go down the toilet.
You could have softer options that influence weights and not completely kill search times.
You could have softer options that influence weights and not completely kill search times.
Obviously your preferences wouldn't guarantee you're going to be playing Haven all day or never, ever get Exile. That said, it would still have a significant effect on weighting.
You know there's a problem when I can go into Reach matchmaking and get Sword Base 8/10 times, even though it's my least favorite map in the series.
You know there's a problem when I can go into Reach matchmaking and get Sword Base 8/10 times, even though it's my least favorite map in the series.
I'd wait an extra 30 secs-2 minutes if it meant I'd never have to play maps I didn't like again.
Yep, that's what I meant. It wouldn't be a definitive thing (if there's not enough people that hate and like the same maps as you, there's nothing to be done about that), but I'd really love to see that as a filtering option alongside prioritizing connection/skill/etc.
Hydranockz
Member
Two different things being spoken about I think. What you are saying sounded more like searching through multiple playlists simultaneously with the benefit being if the player wanted to play SWAT, Snipers, Objective or Grifball and it didn't matter which one they got because it's what they chose. So instead of restricting your search, you are, in essence, broadening it. Sure it would need more work than that because that works so much easier if it's a player going solo.
What I had thought monster was suggesting was a filter on the maps/gametypes you wanted to play. Say you have them all defaulted to on but players can cross of Zealot if they wanted. I don't think having such lists would do the population or waiting times any good especially looking at how Reach handled trying to search for different map lists.
Der Flatulator
Member
First world NP problems...
The magnum in H3 was pretty beastly if you could use them while duel wielding.
GodlyPerfection
Member
Weights could also be influenced by population of each preference equating to current players searching for that preference then match starting with the lowest population with a full game. of course this doesn't consider other inner-working parameters like trueskill. There wouldn't be tons of virtual playlists as matching wouldn't be done based on combination, but lowest "population" instead.
Essentially while searching you would have (imagine everyone is by themselves and not with a group) 5000 w/ TS, 2000 w/ Infection, 400 w/ Community Slayer, 12 w/ Arena. Arena would be matched off first with the remaining 4 people using the next lowest preference, if they had Community Slayer that would be next, if not then Infection, etc. And just keep matching and removing them from the population at that time frame. Again barring inner workings.
lol, never change Reggie.
GodlyPerfection
Member
I preferred single wielding because your attention isn't split between precision and alternating fire. Allowed me to ensure a solidly time magnum.
I disagree... I'm an almost strictly camo foot soldier, but I still manage to place very high on the leaderboards thanks to the bonus points system.
Though there are times where I like to jump in a ghost and splatter.Right. But I don't think it's such a bad idea.
Why on earth would we put Heavies in matchmaking when everyone knows that all people would refuse to buy the game if we did?
Der Flatulator
Member
Heavies playlist confirmed.
Edit, speaking of playlists... I wonder how many Halo 4 will ship with (Do tell, Frankie!)
- Team Slayer
- Team Objective
- Big Team Battle
- SWAT
- Classic
- Infinity
- Rumble Pit
- Double Team
Reagan's BR
Banned
2.5 hour game. Great.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Normal the new Heroic CONFIRMED
