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[Tashi]

Put too much emphasis on deaths and you're going to have some boring matches of turtle slayer. I think they did the best they could given all factors, at least it's better than Halo 3.

Agreed. It's a tough balance though. To me, I don't think it's better than Halo 3. Just because I like being ranked by team and not individual. It brings out the worst in players, myself included. I do think though, that after people get put into a division their playing style will revert back to being more team oriented. I hope that happens. Because then it's all good. However, if I'm playing with a crew, which I intend to, it'll be all team oriented.

What if winning and losing mattered more to your arena score?

 

[Skilotonn]

We all played the beta, we all know what to expect - we don't need someone else's opinion on a game we're all going to buy on release date anyways, especially when it might not even be their game or have the skills for it.

I didnt watch the video but I will say that from a pic I saw a while back I hated the way it seemed to mess with the awesome Halo aesthetic. Halo isnt exactly realistic, but everything makes sense and the world is believable - its immersive. That immersion is going to be shattered when I see dudes with electricity coming out of theyre heads.

P.s. The EVA helmet is suicide at high level snipes.

It is different for Halo, but I guess that's just Bungie putting things in for the fun of it, ala Grunt Birthday Party back in Halo 3...

I'm not saying that it doesn't stand out, it's just that it most-definitely doesn't make someone harder to kill - at least not for me. If you watch the video it doesn't hinder anything at all, as a matter of fact, you can see through the clouds even.

High-level snipers will get anyone regardless of the amount of visor on their helmet, really - if someone can snipe someone running while in the middle of a jump, he'd get the headshot regardless of the helmet...

Lightning effect is only the beginning. I don't want confetti and hearts flying around either.
I wish bungie would give me the option of not even seeing the effects even if they are turned on. I don't care to see any of that crap, I think it all looks out of place.

That way people can wear whatever they want, but I don't have to see it if I don't want to.

I bet you're going to forget you even felt this way by the time you actually run into someone with the lightning effect on in Matchmaking...

 

[Jex]

Meh that don't bother me. The guys at Giantbomb have never been Halo fans. So whatever they say goes in one ear and out the other when it comes to Halo.

Ever since they mentioned on their podcast that Halo:Reach was antiquated because you couldn't unlock new weapons/abilities I realised I had little need to look at their coverage of the game.

It's like if a game isn't doing the "inn thing" then it's somehow "falling behind".

 

[Teknoman]

Was there ever any news on weapon damage being tweaked between beta and retail? Went on a blackout after beta, so now i'm really trying to catch up.

EDIT: Its funny how some gaming journalists are complaining about it feeling exactly like past Halo games, when during beta, a huge set of Halo fans were complaining about it feeling nothing like Halo.

 

[Ramirez]

Well maybe someone from Bungie can explain as to why deaths weren't more penalized at the PAX panel or something. I'm sure they had some reason behind it.

The problem with Halo 3's system is that not everyone has a team to run with at all times, I have no one to play MLG with, so I get matched up plenty with idiots and quitters, and I suffer because of it, so I like the new system in that regard. I understand both sides...I just really hope this ends new accounts, that was without a doubt the worst thing about Halo 3. I can't believe people are STILL buying them, pathetic.

 

[DancingJesus]

Was there ever any news on weapon damage being tweaked between beta and retail? Went on a blackout after beta, so now i'm really trying to catch up.

EDIT: Its funny how some gaming journalists are complaining about it feeling exactly like past Halo games, when during beta, a huge set of Halo fans were complaining about it feeling nothing like Halo.

This list of stuff that changed may help you out:

http://www.haloreachbeta.com/content/bungie-updates-halo-reach-based-beta-feedback

Jump height and speed have also been adjusted and slightly increased.

EDIT: Yeah, look at Ghaleon's list it's more comprehensive.

 

[Olivero]

Ever since they mentioned on their podcast that Halo:Reach was antiquated because you couldn't unlock new weapons/abilities I realised I had little need to look at their coverage of the game.

It's like if a game isn't doing the "inn thing" then it's somehow "falling behind".

Weapon unlocks are a very poor evolution of the FPS and it's an easy out to not balance weapons properly.

One of the best things Bungie has done with Reach in my opinion is focus on a system that works, and works well. They removed duel wielding because it's a useless mechanic and focused on making weapons that all had a place.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Was there ever any news on weapon damage being tweaked between beta and retail? Went on a blackout after beta, so now i'm really trying to catch up.

The AR was beefed up slightly, and grenades taken down a point. There were several other tweaks, though. I kept a list of the weapon and gameplay changes at the top of the Beta thread, if you want to get up to speed.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393414
Edit: this is a much better list.

This list of stuff that changed may help you out:

http://www.haloreachbeta.com/content/bungie-updates-halo-reach-based-beta-feedback

 

[Shake Appeal]

What if winning and losing mattered more to your arena score?

Winning and losing is already crucial. I still think people don't grasp that the score, the number itself, doesn't really matter. It's only how the various scores within that one game compare (i.e. it doesn't matter if you 'only' get 1200, as long as everyone else gets less than that in that one game, though I'm not sure how that could happen). A 4% hit is pretty significant in that it will likely place you in the bottom half of the 'table' for that game, and so hurt your overall placement in the divisions, but it's not so significant that it can't be overcome by a strong individual display. That's about right.

I mean really people should just focus on winning games and playing well, as usual. You can't 'crack' the system by adjusting your playstyle, but if your playstyle is 'cautious' you're probably underprivileged by the system, and gung-ho, aggressive players are more overprivileged... right up to the point that they cost the team, and themselves, that 4%.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Ever since they mentioned on their podcast that Halo:Reach was antiquated because you couldn't unlock new weapons/abilities I realised I had little need to look at their coverage of the game.

Yup. Also by this point this is game number 5 and most people know if they are going to love it, like it, or hate it based off their experiences with the previous Halo based games.

In my case I:

Loved Halo 1
Loved Halo 2 minus the last cutscene. Felt it could have been left off
Loved Halo 3
Loved ODST

So odds are great that I'm going to love Halo: Reach. So for me to worry that someone out there won't like the game is a waste of my time. I prefer to spend that time reading the threads here and reading the great conversations that people have.

 

[electricpirate]

Was there ever any news on weapon damage being tweaked between beta and retail? Went on a blackout after beta, so now i'm really trying to catch up.

There were lots of little tweaks. Grenade damage/radius reduced slightly, AR/PR beefed, pistol max ROF decreased very slightly. DMR clip moved to 15 shots, NR moved to 21. There was a fix to a bug that made headshots that were lower on the face/neck not register correctly, which makes precision weapons more effective. Those are the main ones. I think that's all that specifically relates to weapons, but Vehicles also got a large pass, though the specifics of what was changed we don't know.

 

[Blergmeister]

Is everyone upset at the formula itself or the weights in the formulat ie kills =1, assists = 1, deaths = 0.5?

If the weights what would you rather them set at?

I'm pretty pleased with assists equal to kills. This provided incentive for my friends and I to stay close and work together which I liked. I haven't thought too much on the weight for deaths... it didn't bother me too much. Maybe weight deaths higher then?

I do agree with a loss penalty. I mean, you lost. Would you want someone who went 10-5-5 on the losing team to have an equal rating as someone who went the same on the winning. I mean, arguments can be made, and I don't think it has much as an impact, but I'm fine with it as is.

Edit: I guess I should have refreshed after I typed half my response, did some work stuff, and came back. I see discussion has taken place already!

 

[feel]

I bet those guys are pulling their hair in excitement for Black Ops or Killzone 3.

 

[BrLvgThrChmstry]

The AR was beefed up slightly, and grenades taken down a point. There were several other tweaks, though. I kept a list of the weapon and gameplay changes at the top of the Beta thread, if you want to get up to speed.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393414
Edit: this is a much better list.

Ah, bouncing grenades (idle; dropped) of death...I remember quite a few people would complain about those

 

[Teknoman]

This list of stuff that changed may help you out:

http://www.haloreachbeta.com/content/bungie-updates-halo-reach-based-beta-feedback

Jump height and speed have also been adjusted and slightly increased.

The AR was beefed up slightly, and grenades taken down a point. There were several other tweaks, though. I kept a list of the weapon and gameplay changes at the top of the Beta thread, if you want to get up to speed.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=393414
Edit: this is a much better list.

There were lots of little tweaks. Grenade damage/radius reduced slightly, AR/PR beefed, pistol max ROF decreased very slightly. DMR clip moved to 15 shots, NR moved to 21. There was a fix to a bug that made headshots that were lower on the face/neck not register correctly, which makes precision weapons more effective. Those are the main ones. I think that's all that specifically relates to weapons, but Vehicles also got a large pass, though the specifics of what was changed we don't know.

Thanks.

 

[Arnie]

I'm at odds with the Arena rating, some parts of it seem spot on, yet there are a couple of broken points. I agree that deaths should be penalized more, however I would say it should take 2 deaths rather than 3 to equal the amount of points you receive for a kill. This way there is room for the best players to truly get the best ratings without forcing them to play too conservatively, not helping their team by hiding away with a shotgun.

I think assists need to be rated just as highly as kills, and I am thankful that Bungie agree. I hate it in Halo 3 when I end a game with 15-20 assists and the rest of my team have about 3 -7. All that shows is that I am landing more shots on more players and in general doing more to help my team win. This arena rating should pool the best, most selfless players towards the top rankings.

I do think they need to evaluate just how hard it is to get in Onyx. I was top 30% of Onyx at the end of the beta pre-season and in my opinion that's a bit of a stretch. I am a good player, I average 45's in most playlists (apart from MLG because that place is full of scum) but I don't think I'm MLG 50 standard. I played Pistola and his little group a couple times during the beta and gave him a good run for his money though.

All in all I enjoyed the Arena and will probably spend most of my MM time in there come release, however I would like for it to mean more when you get put in Onyx. I don't know who "Roger Clemence" is but I want them to crank it up to "Steven Gerrard".

 

[DrBo42]

So...Jeff's article is a commentary on the ridiculousness of previews/how the two levels he played didn't have enough impact on him to actually remember/apologetic tongue and cheek bit about over-analysis of tweets? Wha.. Did everything just taste purple? I'm so confused.

 

[watership]

Giantbomb posted a rather disappointing preview up on their site:

http://www.giantbomb.com/news/this-is-a-poor-excuse-for-a-halo-reach-preview/2475/

I posted this in the comments section:

Bungie as a developer has spent over three years creating a piece of art/entertainment and the least you could do is show the same amount of respect to your own craft and the hard work people labored over. Not only that, there are many people on this site who are interested in this material, and your utter disregard or ambivalence to something you are not directly interested in seems disrespectful to your viewers. Your article comes off highly unprofessional and very crass as a result. I am a huge fan of GiantBomb and I visit the site nearly five times a day, but this post was rather disappointing. Maybe it was a fluke who knows. Hopefully, you can read this and see where I’m coming from rather than dismissing as some crazy Halo fan.

I understand how you feel, but I think in this case Jeff is being honest and giving us a 'mea culpa'. He went into a situation and didn't really prepare for writing an article like this, and he's saying it is not a reflection on the software or the people involved, but himself.

 

[Tashi]

I do think they need to evaluate just how hard it is to get in Onyx. I was top 30% of Onyx at the end of the beta pre-season and in my opinion that's a bit of a stretch. I am a good player, I average 45's in most playlists (apart from MLG because that place is full of scum) but I don't think I'm MLG 50 standard. I played Pistola and his little group a couple times during the beta and gave him a good run for his money though.

Gee thanks!

lol

edit: So, for me to really want to enjoy Arena, I need good gametypes. You want to make as competitive a place as possible? Make it DMR starts and magnum secondary. That's why I stopped playing Team Slayer in Halo 3. I don't want to play AR starts on Standoff or Valhalla or anywhere for that matter. Or at least make it DMR starts for Onyx players.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

I understand how you feel, but I think in this case Jeff is being honest and giving us a 'mea culpa'. He went into a situation and didn't really prepare for writing an article like this, and he's saying it is not a reflection on the software or the people involved, but himself.

That doesn't make DancingJesus' comments less valid, it validates it if anything.


He should be prepared, he even said he doesn't take notes and doesn't remember things.

Game Journalism.

 

[Arnie]

Gee thanks!

:lol I've played with some cool guys in MLG but for the most part it is full of boosters, quitters, idlers and just in general horrible people(team killing for a sniper etc.). This is at high 30 levels, the max I've got is a 39 in MLG but the reason I'm not higher is because of the aforementioned. I always without fail get paired with players who just have ulterior motives than winning as a team. I suppose it doesn't help that I usually go in as a lone wolf.

Still it is my most played playlist in the last year just because it provides such good gametypes with great custom settings and BR starts. The only thing wrong with the MLG playlist is the population (some people excluded).

 

[The Wise Old Man]

He should be prepared, he even said he doesn't take notes and doesn't remember things.

Game Journalism.

It's not even the lack of preparation that's the issue. It's the fact that he pretty much made up a complete fluff story that had more to do with himself than the actual came that he was supposed to be commenting on. He wrote a self aggrandizing piece of trash that contributed absolutely nothing to the discourse.

 

[Mik2121]

Couldn't he just call Bungie or whoever organized the event and ask?

 

[Broman1978]

-its still looks like halo 3.

lol:lol

 

[GhaleonEB]

I think it only needs a minor tweak. I'd say kill: 1.0, assist 0.9, death -0.45. Otherwise I think it's pretty neat, I just have to remind myself to worry more about getting kills than building a streak or staying alive.

I like kills being weighted equally as assists, because it eliminates the motivation to steal kills; it won't motivate any change in player behavior. But while the weighting is the same in the formula, you need to contribute 60% of the total damage to a player in order to get an assist in the first place. So there's a bit of a counter weight build into the gameplay that makes assists a higher bar to clear.

 

[Tashi]

:lol I've played with some cool guys in MLG but for the most part it is full of boosters, quitters, idlers and just in general horrible people(team killing for a sniper etc.). This is at high 30 levels, the max I've got is a 39 in MLG but the reason I'm not higher is because of the aforementioned. I always without fail get paired with players who just have ulterior motives than winning as a team. I suppose it doesn't help that I usually go in as a lone wolf.

Still it is my most played playlist in the last year just because it provides such good gametypes with great custom settings and BR starts. The only thing wrong with the MLG playlist is the population (some people excluded).

No you're right. If you go in alone in the playlist, it can be REALLY tough. I try to go in with a group of at least 3 or 4 only. With 4's though you run the high risk of getting cheated against. I ran today with someone and there was a host booter on my team. He kept saying, "guys, if we start to lose I'm gonna boot one of them" He booted a guy, I quit out. Whatever.

edit: what if assists weighed more than kills. People would be team shooting like crazy :lol Everyone would become a better player too. Hey wait a minute, that's a decent idea. lol

 

[derFeef]

Couldn't he just call Bungie or whoever organized the event and ask?

That does not help because it´s clear he does not want to write about his playsession and the impressions he got. If it´s because he hates such organized events or he even does not care for the game - is up in the air.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Couldn't he just call Bungie or whoever organized the event and ask?

He'd probably consider that 'cheating':

It's tempting to go and find some other outlet's writeup of the two levels and skim them, if only to get a quick refresher course. But that'd be cheating!

To be honest, it just seems like he didn't really care.

 

[Shake Appeal]

I do think they need to evaluate just how hard it is to get in Onyx. I was top 30% of Onyx at the end of the beta pre-season and in my opinion that's a bit of a stretch.

Well bear in mind it's a much smaller sample pool, over a shorter period of time, then a proper Arena season will have after release. You were also likely playing with a group of likeminded players, which will reinforce all of your scores against teams of strangers.

That said, I think many people on GAF underestimate how good they are, because outside of Social they only play with and against players who are of their level or higher, and they only deal with and talk to players who are as invested as they are. Chances are if you're part of HaloGAF you're already well above average at these games.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

We all played the beta, we all know what to expect - we don't need someone else's opinion on a game we're all going to buy on release date anyways, especially when it might not even be their game or have the skills for it.



It is different for Halo, but I guess that's just Bungie putting things in for the fun of it, ala Grunt Birthday Party back in Halo 3...

I'm not saying that it doesn't stand out, it's just that it most-definitely doesn't make someone harder to kill - at least not for me. If you watch the video it doesn't hinder anything at all, as a matter of fact, you can see through the clouds even.

High-level snipers will get anyone regardless of the amount of visor on their helmet, really - if someone can snipe someone running while in the middle of a jump, he'd get the headshot regardless of the helmet...

I bet you're going to forget you even felt this way by the time you actually run into someone with the lightning effect on in Matchmaking...

No honestly when I see someone with EVA its like a magnet to their head. :lol

But apart from that your spot on, armour effects wont ruin the game for me, on the contrary ill probably enjoy seeing them (for a while). I just think in a year or 2 when everyone has earned it I will find it makes Halo look a little silly.

Also I like the Arena Score because it probably will promote aggressive play which is more fun to fight against than campers. (Then again though it may possess an entire team to camp, which would be no fun).

Was there ever any news on weapon damage being tweaked between beta and retail? Went on a blackout after beta, so now i'm really trying to catch up.

EDIT: Its funny how some gaming journalists are complaining about it feeling exactly like past Halo games, when during beta, a huge set of Halo fans were complaining about it feeling nothing like Halo.

The guys who post in this thread know Halo. After playing Halo so much we can feel the differences. If your a journalist you may have played it once of twice and probably think that because aesthetically it looks and feels similar that its the same.

 

[taylor910]

not the grenades, please not the grenades!!!

 

[Wizman23]

The author was rather self-depreciation, but really, that's a pretty remarkable passage. If your job is to cover games, and you can't even remember what you played, when the game you played is one of if the biggest game this year, you've failed to do your job.

He apparently gets a free pass and can say whatever he wants because he got fired from Gamespot for trashing a review. Just go watch some quick looks to see how pathetic Giant Bomb is.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

not the grenades, please not the grenades!!!

:lol Grenade damage was crazy in the Beta....like they were actual grenades.

 

[watership]

Its quite funny: Germany really hates Halo. We have the worst Halo fansite and the press doesnt like halo. Too bad we have the biggest gaming convention in europe.

Germany hates Halo? I noticed the game wasn't even nominated for any GamesCom awards.. .but hate?

 

[taylor910]

:lol Grenade damage was crazy in the Beta....like they were actual grenades.

Not only nerfing grenades, but making vehicles stronger.....


Talk about working backwards. I remember the good old days in halo 1 when you could flip a hog with one well-place nade. Damn I miss that.

 

[derFeef]

Germany hates Halo? I noticed the game wasn't even nominated for any GamesCom awards.. .but hate?

Germany, or Europe in general, is not very Microsoft-friendly either.

 

[yankeehater]

I understand how you feel, but I think in this case Jeff is being honest and giving us a 'mea culpa'. He went into a situation and didn't really prepare for writing an article like this, and he's saying it is not a reflection on the software or the people involved, but himself.

I have more respect for Jeff after reading what he wrote. It would have been really easy for him to fake it, but he decided to fess up instead and admit his mistake.

 

[Shake Appeal]

He apparently gets a free pass and can say whatever he wants because he got fired from Gamespot for trashing a review. Just go watch some quick looks to see how pathetic Giant Bomb is.

The Quick Looks are loved on GAF, and for a while I loved them too because you got to see a good segment of gameplay from something you were anticipating.

Then I noticed how dense and wrongheaded and easily distracted and often flat-out incompetent the people 'playing' often were, and I realized that most games journalists who make or break developers and their titles were probably similar, and in fact have no special talent (even for writing!) that elevates them above the average poster on GAF. And then I felt depressed.

Edit: I think the first time I noticed this was with their Dragon Age Quick Look. And the God of War 3 one was pretty bad too. And didn't they do a Reach beta Quick Look full of misinformation and ignorance? Irksome. They get paid to do this.

 

[neoism]

So, these headsets you're all talking about. Will you be wearing them during your 1st Reach campaign playthrough?

And btw, anyone want a few Team Slayer matches?

Yeah I pretty much bought them for Reach..

 

[DancingJesus]

I have more respect for Jeff after reading what he wrote. It would have been really easy for him to fake it, but he decided to fess up instead and admit his mistake.

While this is true, I would of simply preferred no article at all. Anywho, it's not a big deal, just something I felt needed to be said.

 

[chess]

Is everyone upset at the formula itself or the weights in the formulat ie kills =1, assists = 1, deaths = 0.5?

If the weights what would you rather them set at?

I'm pretty pleased with assists equal to kills. This provided incentive for my friends and I to stay close and work together which I liked. I haven't thought too much on the weight for deaths... it didn't bother me too much. Maybe weight deaths higher then?

I do agree with a loss penalty. I mean, you lost. Would you want someone who went 10-5-5 on the losing team to have an equal rating as someone who went the same on the winning. I mean, arguments can be made, and I don't think it has much as an impact, but I'm fine with it as is.

Edit: I guess I should have refreshed after I typed half my response, did some work stuff, and came back. I see discussion has taken place already!

the weight of the kill, assist, death values. Besides the % reduction for a loss the rest of the formula simply computes a value for reference.

Currently, and in beta, it's +1 for kill or assist and -1/3 for death. Essentially one kill or assist equals 3 deaths. This leans for more aggressive play because if you just get 1 kill or assist for every 3 times charging you are basically even like when the game starts. Basically the higher your kill+assist-1/3death number is the higher your rating will be.

If you adjust these values you can shift individual gameplay. Make deaths worth too negative and you get camping and pot shot gameplay. Kill and/or assist value too high and it's run, gun, spam, spray, pray no thought or negative impact for dying. It's a fine balance.

I was just stating I though assist should be weighted slightly less and death slight more. On average ratings will be a little lower like this of course since the k+a-d value will be lower in general but I think it would be a better gauge skill and not risk altering gameplay. This is just and opinion though that I formed from beta experience.

 

[Stinkles]

J-SWAT.

 

[Striker]

Not only nerfing grenades, but making vehicles stronger.....


Talk about working backwards. I remember the good old days in halo 1 when you could flip a hog with one well-place nade. Damn I miss that.

The grenades weren't a huge problem for me in the beta. It was the abundance of them which took its toll on me. Though the idle grenades plagued Halo 3, also. One point in Construct there were 23 idle grenades above the gold lift from dead bodies.

Wish they would disappear after a short time; curious if they addressed that any.

 

[fernoca]

On "Halo mode" right now. Was just gifted (early birthday present) the limited edition of Halo Wars.
Anyone knows were I can get a 'Flaming Warthog' code for cheap? :lol

 

[Shake Appeal]

Tonight I begin my hunt for the last two achievements I am missing from Halo 3/ODST.

Pull, Blades of Fury... you will be mine.

Edit: first game is on Longshore, of course. I spawn. Game goes to black screen. Half my team quits. A guy gets rockets and gets on top of our spawn and kills me over and over. Love you, Halo.

Edit 2: they are all wearing recon. One of them is humping my corpse as I type this. Thank you, Team and Party.

 

[Jb]

Germany hates Halo? I noticed the game wasn't even nominated for any GamesCom awards.. .but hate?

As a mainly PC market, I think they just don't care for console only FPS.

 

[Blergmeister]

edit: what if assists weighed more than kills. People would be team shooting like crazy :lol Everyone would become a better player too. Hey wait a minute, that's a decent idea. lol

I would worry that it would lead to two people shooting the same target... and stopping waiting for the other to get the kill, giving the opposing player the opportunity to do more damage than he otherwise would have.

Of course, maybe people are still pleased enough by their kdr that it would even out with people not caring whether they get an assist or a kill as long as either are upped.

 

[yankeehater]

While this is true, I would of simply preferred no article at all. Anywho, it's not a big deal, just something I felt needed to be said.

I can understand that, but they did need to say something about it. All the other site are putting up impressions, people would have been like wtf if they hadnt done something. I wish he would have said more about did he enjoy his time with Reach and other more vauge stuff.

 

[watership]

While this is true, I would of simply preferred no article at all. Anywho, it's not a big deal, just something I felt needed to be said.

Fair enough. You did have a point, you wanted an article on reach and you got an apology. MOAR REACH, LESS SORRY.

 

[Teknoman]

Im just glad grenades still have a physical effect on others. Funniest kill in beta was accidently throwing a frag at someones face (which made their head actually bend back), having it bounce off a nearby wall, then land infront of him and explode.