Support NeoGAF

[Vicetrailia]

IDF sure is annihilating a lot of innocent Palestinians goddamn. Like did they really need to trick, ambush and massacre those people escaping?

That is called revenge, not defense, not responding to terrorism.

Hamas should burn but what is this shit. We are still in the midst of having so much empathy for Ukraine and the innocents that are getting killed, and the IDF is doing stuff like that.

 

[Raven117]

Your wish for genocide is proceeding:

This is an Israeli strike on one of their "approved evacuation roads"

Fuel reserves at Gaza hospitals likely to run out in 24 hours, UN warns - BBC News

Conditions for people in Gaza are worsening, with water, food, power and medicines in scarce supply.

www.bbc.com

How much you want bet that this was done by Hamas?

 

[FullMetalx117]

That doesn't make sense. Can you elaborate on this?

Yes - the military maxim is that truth is the first casualty. As we’ve observed, the sides in a war will try to paint a narrative justifying what they are doing. Everyone does this - U.S., Arab counties, Russia, etc. As we’ve obsverved, lack of free press such as in Russia, the Russia gov can say basically whatever they want and common folk will believe. Similar likely in Hamas.

What I’m saying is, all emotions aside, at the end of the day numbers, statistics, records are the most unbiased (altho yes I agree even these can be tampered with). But these are how we were able to figure out Gemany’s crime against humanity in the first place - these records. And why I think these are important? Well imo the current situation, Gaza being bombed, I think it’s important to understand what you’re actually bombing which is why I’m presenting numbers. Emotions aside, 14 and under is the largest demographic under threat at the moment

 

[Tomeru]

 

[Raven117]

Yes - the military maxim is that truth is the first casualty. As we’ve observed, the sides in a war will try to paint a narrative justifying what they are doing. Everyone does this - U.S., Arab counties, Russia, etc. As we’ve obsverved, lack of free press such as in Russia, the Russia gov can say basically whatever they want and common folk will believe. Similar likely in Hamas.

What I’m saying is, all emotions aside, at the end of the day numbers, statistics, records are the most unbiased (altho yes I agree even these can be tampered with). But these are how we were able to figure out Gemany’s crime against humanity in the first place - these records. And why I think these are important? Well imo the current situation, Gaza being bombed, I think it’s important to understand what you’re actually bombing which is why I’m presenting numbers. Emotions aside, 14 and under is the largest demographic under threat at the moment

You are right. Let’s think of the children. Hamas should take steps to surrender, release hostages, and immediately posture to negotiations to save their children.

You don’t mean to say that children of a regime that just sanctioned terrorism is somehow the Israelíes responsibility do you?

 

[DaleinCalgary]

Just a reminder that out of the 2.2 million in Gaza, about 1 million (42%) are 14 and under.

People calling Palestinians to rise up against Hamas - you’re hoping for a real life Lord of the Flies

Nobody can fight a civil war for you.

 

[EviLore]

Absolutely looks like an IED, not an airstrike.

BBC journalism, Best in the World.

 

[FullMetalx117]

You are right. Let’s think of the children. Hamas should take steps to surrender, release hostages, and immediately posture to negotiations to save their children.

I feel like we all know what Hamas is at this point. The West is better because we can bring some morality in war, think of situations like this. I can only hope.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Battlefield 4 flashbacks.

Nice footage indeed.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

A lot of stupidity by anti-Israel people in western countries. Stabbings, graffiti/vandelism, tons of loud hate filled annoying protests.

You never get this kind of stuff from non-Muslim religious people. That's why everyone's image of an angry Muslim is killing, yelling, hating Jews/western world and flag burning in public. Knock off the stupidity and people will tolerate you more.

I know. Someone will say... but what about Christian crusades and any stuff that happened long time ago.

Cmon guys. Do you really want compare 2023 to 1,000 years ago? Humans have the brains to progress. The vast majority of people and religions live life fine with each other. All the religious terrorist Muslim/Islam people treat the world like it's one ant colony vs wiping out every other ant hill nearby. Grow up.

 

[Raven117]

Aannnd there it is. How anyone can not give the benefit of any doubt to Israel right now is deeply deeply lost in moral equivalence

 

[bbmcgee]

IDF sure is annihilating a lot of innocent Palestinians goddamn. Like did they really need to trick, ambush and massacre those people escaping?

That is called revenge, not defense, not responding to terrorism.

Hamas should burn but what is this shit. We are still in the midst of having so much empathy for Ukraine and the innocents that are getting killed, and the IDF is doing stuff like that.

Do you want Israel to stop fighting? What are they supposed to do. There is not a way to prevent casualties in this situation

 

[Raven117]

I feel like we all know what Hamas is at this point. The West is better because we can bring some morality in war, think of situations like this. I can only hope.

Which, they are, to the best of their ability while fighting a war. They aren’t the Red Cross.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Another badass account of survival.

https://x.com/giladalper/status/1712822693727207895?s=20

(Truck of Hamas terrorists is used for reference, not necessarily the one that attacked him)

Multiple gunshot wounds, blown out tires, and 100 bullet holes in his car. Survived.

Edit: video

Now imagine the survivability once Cybertruck is out, these war-torn landscapes sure are going to look different!

 

[Brucey]

Horrible. But irrelevant. The only thing that matters is if you think Israel is intentionally trying to kill civilians or not.

If you do, nothing they are doing is justified. If you do not, then you just have to accept bad things happen in war.

I don't think Israeli leadership cares one way or the other. Apparently everyone of the 2.2 million living in the Gaza strip can just be written off as "collateral damage". Only question is when will they stop. If 1200 Israelis were killed in the Hamas attack, will 50,000 dead in Gaza be enough? Maybe 100,000?

Personally I don't think they should be using US manufactured missiles and bombs to do what they are doing. Creating a new generation of those that will hate us.

 

[ADiTAR]

IDF sure is annihilating a lot of innocent Palestinians goddamn. Like did they really need to trick, ambush and massacre those people escaping?

That is called revenge, not defense, not responding to terrorism.

Hamas should burn but what is this shit. We are still in the midst of having so much empathy for Ukraine and the innocents that are getting killed, and the IDF is doing stuff like that.

What do you want IDF to do? They told people to evacuate, Hamas tells them to stay.

There's 0 chance they did a trick, don't believe that shit.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

For any of you who live in a decent sized multicultural city where there's always a Little Italy, Chinatown, Koreatown, Indian hubs etc..... where you got tons of different people, businesses, religions, background.

Just image what would happen if all these groups of people had to plant their ethnic neighbouhood in Gaza.

Nevermind Gaza people hating Jews. It would be Hamas and locals going after every ethnic group combined. It would be like locals vs. 6 or 7 groups of people.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Nom nom nom

Bad day over there

India routs Pakistan by 7 wickets to extend winning streak over rival at Cricket World Cup

Jasprit Bumrah and Kuldeep Yadav triggered a stunning Pakistan collapse and shared four wickets in India’s dominant victory over its archrival at the Cricket World Cup.

apnews.com

 

[ADiTAR]

I don't think Israeli leadership cares one way or the other. Apparently everyone of the 2.2 million living in the Gaza strip can just be written off as "collateral damage". Only question is when will they stop. If 1200 Israelis were killed in the Hamas attack, will 50,000 dead in Gaza be enough? Maybe 100,000?

Personally I don't think they should be using US manufactured missiles and bombs to do what they are doing. Creating a new generation of those that will hate us.

Bae, they hate you regardless.

So what do you think is proportionate? Should Hamas provide 1,300 Gazans, from them 40 babies, 20 women to be raped, around 100 to be burned alive, etc?

 

[Raven117]

I don't think Israeli leadership cares one way or the other. Apparently everyone of the 2.2 million living in the Gaza strip can just be written off as "collateral damage". Only question is when will they stop. If 1200 Israelis were killed in the Hamas attack, will 50,000 dead in Gaza be enough? Maybe 100,000?

Personally I don't think they should be using US manufactured missiles and bombs to do what they are doing. Creating a new generation of those that will hate us.

Oh please dude. You know that’s not true. Israel knows damn well they are being held to an almost impossible standard. They aren’t going to say “fuck it” and go killing civilians on purpose and specifically. Israel is an important member of the international community. They know this. They will strive to keep it.

Use your head man.

 

[John Marston]

I have perused this thread on & off with CNN on TV in short bursts.
Sorry in advance if I'm not as well informed as some of you.

This may seem farfetched but what keeps plugging in my head is the possibility of an actual World War 3 stirring up.

With the war in Ukraine and so many "players" watching from the sidelines.

Am I thinking too much or could this eventually happen?

 

[bbmcgee]

I don't think Israeli leadership cares one way or the other. Apparently everyone of the 2.2 million living in the Gaza strip can just be written off as "collateral damage". Only question is when will they stop. If 1200 Israelis were killed in the Hamas attack, will 50,000 dead in Gaza be enough? Maybe 100,000?

Personally I don't think they should be using US manufactured missiles and bombs to do what they are doing. Creating a new generation of those that will hate us.

I think they are trying to destroy Hamas, and as terrible as it is they should attack until they get them.

I agree the Israeli leadership doesnt care about Palestinians, but again that doesnt mean they are purposely killing innocents. All you can ask of them is to avoid doing so when possible. Anything else is putting a burden on them that i've never seen applied in war before.

 

[Raven117]

I have perused this thread on & off with CNN on TV in short bursts.
Sorry in advance if I'm not as well informed as some of you.

This may seem farfetched but what keeps plugging in my head is the possibility of an actual World War 3 stirring up.

With the war in Ukraine and so many "players" watching from the sidelines.

Am I thinking too much or could this eventually happen?

Well, eventually, yes. Whether it’s this one, don’t know.

 

[SubZero_Wins]

I have perused this thread on & off with CNN on TV in short bursts.
Sorry in advance if I'm not as well informed as some of you.

This may seem farfetched but what keeps plugging in my head is the possibility of an actual World War 3 stirring up.

With the war in Ukraine and so many "players" watching from the sidelines.

Am I thinking too much or could this eventually happen?

The chance of it happening gets bigger by the day. The destruction of Israel in general would accelerate that, In my opinion.

 

[bbmcgee]

Bae, they hate you regardless.

So what do you think is proportionate? Should Hamas provide 1,300 Gazans, from them 40 babies, 20 women to be raped, around 100 to be burned alive, etc?

The proportionate argument is insane. Everyone knows the answer is to get rid of Hamas. As if Israel should tolerate this nonsense forever.

 

[EviLore]

Spoiler

 

[Tomeru]

Absolutely looks like an IED, not an airstrike.

BBC journalism, Best in the World.

It was posted a couple of pages back, and I just reposted it to enlighten some people who just missed it in their search for the whole truth

 

[hyperbertha]

Your wish for genocide is proceeding:

This is an Israeli strike on one of their "approved evacuation roads"

Fuel reserves at Gaza hospitals likely to run out in 24 hours, UN warns - BBC News

Conditions for people in Gaza are worsening, with water, food, power and medicines in scarce supply.

www.bbc.com

Likely hamas attacking the evac routes. Don't fall for propaganda.

 

[bbmcgee]

I feel like we all know what Hamas is at this point. The West is better because we can bring some morality in war, think of situations like this. I can only hope.

We dont all know. You've got people parading in the streets completely ignoring the existence of Hamas. Israel needs to free Palestine is the prevailing narrative for these people. They act like hamas doesnt exist, have no responsibility, and they dont even show any anger towards them.

 

[near]

Horrible. But irrelevant. The only thing that matters is if you think Israel is intentionally trying to kill civilians or not.

If you do, nothing they are doing is justified. If you do not, then you just have to accept bad things happen in war.

I think they are trying to destroy Hamas, and as terrible as it is they should attack until they get them.

I agree the Israeli leadership doesnt care about Palestinians, but again that doesnt mean they are purposely killing innocents. All you can ask of them is to avoid doing so when possible. Anything else is putting a burden on them that i've never seen applied in war before.

This is a pretty bad take if I'm being honest. It's an extreme view. The result of war is always the same, whether the intention originates from good or evil. The loss of innocent lives is expected. The argument that Israel has a right to defend itself is a fair and a good one, but the longer this continues, the more villainized Israel will become. Why? Because it doesn't matter if the IDF intends to kill innocent women and children, in pursuit of it's cause to eradicate Hamas, innocent woman and children will still die all the same. The blood of an Israeli child is no more valuable than that of a Palestinian child. I've said this from the start, there must be an intervention, ceasefire, and peace talks at some point.

While the reality might be that Hamas and the Palestinians are inseparable, I don't think it will ever justify mass slaughter of non-combatants. Which will be the inevitable result. Israel is hurt, it wants justice, but I think that same argument can be made and will be made for the Palestinians in due course.

 

[ADiTAR]

Spoiler

Finally, the Jewish Space Lasers!

I hope it works.

 

[Faust]

This is a pretty bad take if I'm being honest. It's an extreme view. The result of war is always the same, whether the intention originates from good or evil. The loss of innocent lives is expected. The argument that Israel has a right to defend itself is a fair and a good one, but the longer this continues, the more villainized Israel will become. Why? Because it doesn't matter if the IDF intends to kill innocent women and children, in pursuit of it's cause to eradicate Hamas, innocent woman and children will still die all the same. The blood of an Israeli child is no more valuable than that of a Palestinian child. I've said this from the start, there must be an intervention, ceasefire, and peace talks at some point.

While the reality might be that Hamas and the Palestinians are inseparable, I don't think it will ever justify mass slaughter of non-combatants. Which will be the inevitable result. Israel is hurt, it wants justice, but I think that same argument can be made and will be made for the Palestinians in due course.

There can be no peace talks with a regime that wants the total eradication of all Hebrews across the globe, who enter a country for the express purpose of barbaric savagery against women, children, and elderly.

 

[EviLore]

The argument that Israel has a right to defend itself is a fair and a good one, but the longer this continues, the more villainized Israel will become.

“If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

— Golda Meir

 

[cormack12]

Just a reminder that out of the 2.2 million in Gaza, about 1 million (42%) are 14 and under.

People calling Palestinians to rise up against Hamas - you’re hoping for a real life Lord of the Flies

So that's about 1.3 million Palestinians against 50,000 odd Hamas? These people will fight and war over a small strip of land with 14 settlements in East Jerusalem yet live submissively under Hamas. The only difference is Jewish hate.

It shouldn't even be at this stage though, given the way the money and aid is being funnelled into anything but building a functional state.

To put it another way, if that small portion of land was annexed to Gaza, what do you think would change from today to tomorrow? Suddenly they would stop hating the Jewish? They'd live peacefully? You'd be back to the original agreement which was refused outright anyway.

Right now the British state is trying to get their citizens out. The Canadian state are doing the same as are the US and Thai. Who of the dominant Arab states is assisting the Palestinians? Who is even offering?

The gauntlet is down, a temporary displacement to crush Hamas is in effect. The Palestinian people will be better off under the boot of them as well. This will mean destroying these tunnel networks which run directly under critical civilian infrastructure (by design). Would we all rather avoid it? Sure. No one wants a war, even moreso with civilian casualties. There are only so many concessions you can make before you have to make honest on your threats though or you'll have the piss taken out of you.

 

[Tomeru]

Spoiler

Ngl, I said god damn! This thing looks like it could intimidate rockets and drone enough for them to deactivate mid flight.

 

[MrA]

Absolutely looks like an IED, not an airstrike.

BBC journalism, Best in the World.

no dust or debris cloud, not a chance that was an airstrike

 

[near]

There can be no peace talks with a regime that wants the total eradication of all Hebrews across the globe, who enter a country for the express purpose of barbaric savagery against women, children, and elderly.

But what is the alternative? Mass genocide? We all know that Israel will not stop at this point, those people will be completely wiped out.

“If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

— Golda Meir

Powerful quote, I won't lie.

 

[jason10mm]

is the leaving part important? because it took Americans a while to leave Vietnam and Iraq but during that time they did all those things

Dafuq?

You mean the 5 guys in Iraq that acted completely on their own and were all caught, tried, and sentenced to DECADES in prison?

If Hamas surrendered right now and all go to trial then you MIGHT have an equivalency.

And if you mean My Lay and My Khe, that single incident has altered US military perceptions and operations FOREVER, and that that is virtually the only example that comes up after a multi year conflict with hundreds of thousands of combatants tells you just how unique it was.

HAMAS beat all of that IN A SINGLE DAY.

 

[funkygunther]

Dafuq?

You mean the 5 guys in Iraq that acted completely on their own and were all caught, tried, and sentenced to DECADES in prison?

If Hamas surrendered right now and all go to trial then you MIGHT have an equivalency.

And if you mean My Lay and My Khe, that single incident has altered US military perceptions and operations FOREVER, and that that is virtually the only example that comes up after a multi year conflict with hundreds of thousands of combatants tells you just how unique it was.

HAMAS beat all of that IN A SINGLE DAY.

it is not a competition

 

[Dr.Morris79]

I have perused this thread on & off with CNN on TV in short bursts.
Sorry in advance if I'm not as well informed as some of you.

This may seem farfetched but what keeps plugging in my head is the possibility of an actual World War 3 stirring up.

With the war in Ukraine and so many "players" watching from the sidelines.

Am I thinking too much or could this eventually happen?

This was a good little recap video John, none of this looks good. On top of what the neighbouring countries could do if they joined in and what with unveted immigration into the EU and US these last few years that will no doubt contain radicals, it certainly looks pretty grim for the rest of us if anything does really kick off

 

[Atrus]

IDF sure is annihilating a lot of innocent Palestinians goddamn. Like did they really need to trick, ambush and massacre those people escaping?

That is called revenge, not defense, not responding to terrorism.

Hamas should burn but what is this shit. We are still in the midst of having so much empathy for Ukraine and the innocents that are getting killed, and the IDF is doing stuff like that.

These claims that Israel is intentionally "tricking" innocents into a massacre are unfounded nonsense. It paints Israel as being this malicious genocidal maniac that is at the same time both lazy and inept at wiping out a people.

Hamas and Palestinians aren't the same but Hamas is primarily comprised of Palestinians. To wipe out Hamas' dedicated fighters is to kill some 30,000 Palestinians. To kill Hamas' bureaucracy and logistics would likely push that number well north of 100,000 in a very small, dense urbanized area with an enemy that intentionally embeds itself amongst civilians. They literally filmed themselves rocking kidnapped babies.

If you're goal was to wipe out Hamas, how many Palestinians would you reasonably expect to be killed? A lot of people are offering armchair critiques while countries like Israel and Ukraine fight existential battles, so how would all of you do it? Even the United States with it's massive military budget gets things wrong some of the time, but somehow Ukraine cannot misreport intelligence nor can Israel miss.

 

[hyperbertha]

This is a pretty bad take if I'm being honest. It's an extreme view. The result of war is always the same, whether the intention originates from good or evil. The loss of innocent lives is expected. The argument that Israel has a right to defend itself is a fair and a good one, but the longer this continues, the more villainized Israel will become. Why? Because it doesn't matter if the IDF intends to kill innocent women and children, in pursuit of it's cause to eradicate Hamas, innocent woman and children will still die all the same. The blood of an Israeli child is no more valuable than that of a Palestinian child. I've said this from the start, there must be an intervention, ceasefire, and peace talks at some point.

While the reality might be that Hamas and the Palestinians are inseparable, I don't think it will ever justify mass slaughter of non-combatants. Which will be the inevitable result. Israel is hurt, it wants justice, but I think that same argument can be made and will be made for the Palestinians in due course.

For the idf, should a palestinian life be worth as much as an Israeli life? Who is their responsibility to? If they let up now and another Israeli dies next week, whose fault is that?

 

[jason10mm]

it is not a competition

No, it's a PATTERN. Hamas displays a consistent pattern of commiting atrocities before breakfast and as part of their SOP. The US has isolated incidents, remote in time or HEAVILY denounced, and has numerous safeguards to limit them. Apples and oranges.

 

[funkygunther]

No, it's a PATTERN. Hamas displays a consistent pattern of commiting atrocities before breakfast and as part of their SOP. The US has isolated incidents, remote in time or HEAVILY denounced, and has numerous safeguards to limit them. Apples and oranges.

Quantity, timeline or post hoc opinion were never in question.

 

[IDKFA]

 

[near]

For the idf, should a palestinian life be worth as much as an Israeli life? Who is their responsibility to? If they let up now and another Israeli dies next week, whose fault is that?

Israel's rage is justified, I'm not against its reasoning at all. But at some point, it will become hard to defend when the result will seem excessive. Do not mistake my post as some sort of terrorist sympathizer, I'm just looking at this holistically.

 

[jason10mm]

Quantity, timeline or post hoc opinion were never in question.

And your attempt to conflate the two was unsuccessful.

 

[funkygunther]

And your attempt to conflate the two was unsuccessful.

you have yet to demonstrate that, as you’ve already called out specific atrocities you conflated them on by behalf so I’d say it was very successful because you knew what I was referring to

the rest of what you post had nothing to do with what I said or the question I was answering

 

[hyperbertha]

This Israel's rage is justified, I'm not against its reasoning at all. But at some point, it will become hard to defend when the result will seem excessive. Do not mistake my post as some sort of terrorist sympathizer, I'm just looking at this holistically.

If they take out the hamas, get it over with as few casualties as possible, I think they can get out of this with their image intact. Of course they'll likely lose any diplomatic progress in the middle East.

 

[FunkMiller]

This may seem farfetched but what keeps plugging in my head is the possibility of an actual World War 3 stirring up.

With the war in Ukraine and so many "players" watching from the sidelines.

Am I thinking too much or could this eventually happen?

Very, very doubtful. While the situation in the Middle East is horrific, it’s not going to lead to escalation.

Neither is Ukraine.

Reason?

Very simple. It’s called the United States Of America - and a military budget that dwarves most countries entire GDP.

This is why Putin gets his 300 million dollar warships sunk on ‘Russian’ soil and does fucking nothing about it.

Not even China goes to war with the U.S. Nobody is that fucking stupid.