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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel

P

patchday

Member
Weird looking at my stats I only fought one rogue (which I won) on my climb to rank 10 from rank 15. wish I could gather more data and shoot for rank 5 but not sure how much time I'll have to play

But I wonder if the folks complaining bout quest rogues should look at their stats. Cause I know all I saw was a horde of Hunters mostly that I had to climb over.

And if you're seeing Quest rogues completing their quest at Turn 3 on the regular I want to see hard data. I don't even see pros doing this on the regular

[edit] As always I have hard data, I don't make up stuff and try to BS you guys:

9kphM0Z.png
Click to expand...

I don't like fighting quest rogues much myself and I might consider them a bit broken. But like i said at beginning of season I doubt they will interfere with my climb in the least and I was right

So to be clear- I don't think Questing Rogues should be nerfed. Granted, I cant recall ever asking for a nerf since I dabble a bit in every deck.
 
Z

Zakalwe

Banned
Primordial Drake + Sleep with the Fishes has saved my life Vs Quest Rogue almost every game. They don't see it coming usually, and if you use both Brawls they tend to get too comfy and pile onto the board.

The nature of the deck (taunts and removal) means you can stall till turn 10 often.

Really enjoying this deck atm.

patchday said:
Weird looking at my stats I only fought one rogue (which I won) on my climb to rank 10 from rank 15. wish I could gather more data and shoot for rank 5 but not sure how much time I'll have to play

But I wonder if the folks complaining bout quest rogues should look at their stats. Cause I know all I saw was a horde of Hunters mostly that I had to climb over.

And if you're seeing Quest rogues completing their quest at Turn 3 on the regular I want to see hard data. I don't even see pros doing this on the regular

[edit] As always I have hard data, I don't make up stuff and try to BS you guys:



I don't like fighting quest rogues much myself and I might consider them a bit broken. But like i said at beginning of season I doubt they will interfere with my climb in the least and I was right

So to be clear- I don't think Questing Rogues should be nerfed. Granted, I cant recall ever asking for a nerf since I dabble a bit in every deck.
Click to expand...

Quest Rogue is all over the ladder at 15-10, it's every other game right now.

Turn 3 Quest completion doesn't happen often, usually it's around turn 5-6. When it does happen turn 3 it's horrible, which is probably why people remember those times more.

I've not tracked my data, but I'm at least even Vs them right now. They're not broken, they're just super fucking annoying when they trounce you.
 
P

patchday

Member
yeah I only have 1 x Primordial Drak and 1 x Sleep w/Fishes. I'll go ahead and craft the 2nd fishes at some point soon but want to open a bit more Ungoro packs before crafting the 2nd drake

so havent been playing Taunt warrior much. I don't like playing decks where I am missing a key card or two
 
Z

Zakalwe

Banned
patchday said:
yeah I only have 1 x Primordial Drak and 1 x Sleep w/Fishes. I'll go ahead and craft the 2nd fishes at some point soon but want to open a bit more Ungoro packs before crafting the 2nd drake

so havent been playing Taunt warrior much. I don't like playing decks where I am missing a key card or two
Click to expand...

It's really fun, and yeh I'm with you on the key cards thing.

What's your Ele Shaman list (assuming it is an elemental deck, of course).

I'm rotating between Ele Shaman and Taunt Warrior, always open to other people's interpretations.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
patchday said:
I've been running this ele shaman I spotted on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/659fma/rank_5legend_elemental_shaman_rantthoughts/



funny how much fire plume phoenix helps me out. Sometimes I'll need exactly 2 dmg to lethal, etc.
Click to expand...

I ran a similar package last night, except it had a 2xBloodsail Corsair + Patches package instead of the two Phoenixes and the Lightning storm. It seemed pretty effective. Thalnos instead of the Mana Tide Totem too. I think Thalnos might be better if you aren't running Thing From Below
 
Z

Zakalwe

Banned
patchday said:
I've been running this ele shaman I spotted on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/659fma/rank_5legend_elemental_shaman_rantthoughts/



funny how much fire plume phoenix helps me out. Sometimes I'll need exactly 2 dmg to lethal, etc.
Click to expand...

Have you tried a pure Elemental variant, if so do you think the Ele/Jade mix is better?

I've tried both but I can't decide. I'm currently running a variant of pure Ele with Bloodlust and Spirit Echo tech'd in. Bloodlust to burst down Quest rogues before they get out of hand, and Spirit Echo for value (although the deck has a lot of value anyway, so I'm not sure if this is optimal).

Current list:

2x FF
1x Devolve
2x Flamtongue
2x Jade Claw
2x Hex
2x Hot Spring
1x Igneous Ele
1x Lightning Storm
1x Mana Tide
1x Spirit Echo
2x Tar Creeper
2x Fire Plume
1x Waterspeaker
1x Bloodlust
2x Servent of Kalimos
2x Fire Ele
2x TFB
2x Blazecaller
1x Kalimos

I'm with you on FPP, this deck has a tonne of really useful battlecries. That's the main reason I use Spirit Echo, so I can use them twice.

Also Kalimos is probably my favourite legendary from the set. He's an actual beast.

ZealousD said:
I ran a similar package last night, except it had a 2xBloodsail Corsair + Patches package instead of the two Phoenixes and the Lightning storm. It seemed pretty effective. Thalnos instead of the Mana Tide Totem too. I think Thalnos might be better if you aren't running Thing From Below
Click to expand...

Yeh, this was more in line with the variant I ran too, but on reflection I'd probably take the FPP.
 
P

patchday

Member
Interesting thoughts on Thalnos vs Mana tide totem.

Yeah tried full elemental route but I just cant consistent results. I really need to play with the deck more
 
P

patchday

Member
yeah I am curious what's going to happen when I play later. The ele/jade shaman been doing well against Taunt Warriors but struggles more with Pirate warriors since I have no specific tech against them. Granted, looking at my replays I've been messing up my mulligan (doing stupid things like mulliganing for Taunt warrior even tho its a PW)

And I dont understand fertygo's post at all how he can tell PW apart from Taunt Warrior during mulligan phase ;(
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
You don't see their mulligans until you have completed yours.

What you can see is them hovering/touching/highlighting cards. If they hover over top left card then you can assume it's Pirate Warrior.

This is really most relevant when you are playing Taunt Warrior. You REALLY need the quest against another taunt Warrior but you really DON'T want the quest against a PW.


This trick has already started to spread and people are starting to bluff their mulligan by always tickling the left most card no matter what.
 
Q

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
Dahbomb said:
You don't see their mulligans until you have completed yours.

What you can see is them hovering/touching/highlighting cards. If they hover over top left card then you can assume it's Pirate Warrior.

This is really most relevant when you are playing Taunt Warrior. You REALLY need the quest against another taunt Warrior but you really DON'T want the quest against a PW.


This trick has already started to spread and people are starting to bluff their mulligan by always tickling the left most card no matter what.
Click to expand...

As a Taunt Warrior player, I ABSOLUTELY do this now. I always hover the quest for a bit these days.

It has never helped as far as I can tell. Though I haven't played many Mirror Matches either.
 
D

DyslexicAlucard

Member
FieryBalrog said:
lol, MtG has all-in decks that win on turn 1.

Goblin Charbelcher
http://www.mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=83

Spanish Inquisition
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/legacy-spanish-inquisition#online

And many more, many decks can lock you out of the game on turn 1 (Trinisphere, Chalice of the Void).
Click to expand...

Could you imagine if something like this made it into Hearthstone? The community would instantly riot, haha.

Lemme find that Firebat "****in' Interactive" video...

Edit: got it! https://youtu.be/hpQSjhkBEJg
 
L

LucidMomentum

Member
Q8D3vil said:
Defeated Hunter twice using Vanish, and you guys consider this balance lol.
Click to expand...

I mean, Hearthstone is like most other card games where there's a whole lotta RNG and a whole lotta bullshit but at the end of the day when things line up it's about who knows what to play and when.
 
F

fertygo

Member
I hate how unnatural the game flow against quest rogue

I dont know how to said it but its left unpleasant feeling how "janky" that deck operate.
 
D

DyslexicAlucard

Member
fertygo said:
I hate how unnatural the game flow against quest rogue

I dont know how to said it but its left unpleasant feeling how "janky" that deck operate.
Click to expand...

I think it can be expressed in how the deck is essentially playing against itself, and trying to prevent the opponent from playing too. The whole point is to draw and make the board as uninteractive as possible until you can finish your quest. And unlike with other quests, which either react to your board (Mage) and put something to interact with (everything else,) the whole point is to remove that interaction.

It's essentially playing Solitaire while also trying to slow you down. Again, see: "Fun and Interactive." :p
 
Z

zoukka

Member
fertygo said:
I hate how unnatural the game flow against quest rogue

I dont know how to said it but its left unpleasant feeling how "janky" that deck operate.
Click to expand...

You don't like facing a board of 5/5's on turn 5? And he drew 4 cards from the fucking swashburglars... and he vanished your minions xD
 
F

fertygo

Member
zoukka said:
You don't like facing a board of 5/5's on turn 5? And he drew 4 cards from the fucking swashburglars... and he vanished your minions xD
Click to expand...
Not talking about that is just how the game played.. its just feel weird.. card bouncing that the animation stroke inducing.. some mana reduction shenanigan that hard to predict.

Just feel unplesant

Alucard express my feeling better.
 
M

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Acolyte + volcano is ridiculously good.

Been running this with success.

- A lot of heal to get you through midgame.
- Volcano works great against taunt warrior and decks that overextend including quest rogue. It can also kill a huge minion which makes is a great draw even when your opponent only has one big minion on board.
- You really want to aim to hit your volcano turn with an acolyte on board. Acolyte behind tar creeper works very well.
- A decent amount of burn. Blazecallers are perfect and they give you a body.
- You can tech out elise if you like. I had hallazeal there but I never once needed the healing. If you end up in a top deck war then drawing a pack is a lifesaver.

lwZ2Swz.png
Click to expand...
 
F

FieryBalrog

Member
DyslexicAlucard said:
I think it can be expressed in how the deck is essentially playing against itself, and trying to prevent the opponent from playing too. The whole point is to draw and make the board as uninteractive as possible until you can finish your quest. And unlike with other quests, which either react to your board (Mage) and put something to interact with (everything else,) the whole point is to remove that interaction.

It's essentially playing Solitaire while also trying to slow you down. Again, see: "Fun and Interactive." :p
Click to expand...

In this respect it is similar to a lot of MTG combo decks, in fact the point of such "engine" combo decks in CCGs is to minimize interaction with the opponent and play solitaire games.

If you look at that Spanish Inquisition decklist you realize that it's entirely a complicated solitaire deck that can win games easily with nut draws. On the other hand your opponent has Force of Will and you lose the game on the spot, it's very binary. (in HS, equivalent would be Dirty Rat).

However, the solitaire decks are healthier in Hearthstone because they are actually slower than the aggro decks. Whereas in MtG, decks like Charbelcher and Inquisition (or High Tide, or whatever really) are much faster than aggro decks.

I think it's important to note that these complex solitaire decks appeal to a certain kind of player a lot. (Such as myself, lol). These days I drifted a bit away from the solitaire archetypes but when I started playing Magic it was incredibly appealing to me (and not so much fun for my friends). My favorite deck to play in HS is Johnny Priest decks.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
There's nothing slow about this Rogue deck, that's for sure. There's a massive gap between what Freeze Mage is doing and what Quest Rogue is doing. It's almost a different category of combo deck.

These MTG comparisons don't hold any weight anymore. It's a different game and Blizzard has systemically toned down all combo/solitaire aspects of the game over time. This Rogue Quest, despite how good or bad it is, is on borrowed time. This is probably not the type of game play experience Blizzard is looking at, which means they are watching the deck very closely.

We have seen this time and time again in HS. All it's going to take is for some pros to use the deck a bit more than average and the community to start rioting. At that point, win rates will not matter much and the nerf hammer will come down. Similar thing happened to Yogg, where its win rates weren't that high but the experience of playing against it was "bad" for the players involved.


In any case, this has been an interesting deck in the meta game. It feels degenerate at times but pretty much all good decks in card games do. They wouldn't be good if they didn't do something degenerate.
 
Q

Q8D3vil

Member
Im surprised im barely seeing any pirate right now to punish Quest rogue (Rank 5 and below on EU). There are hunters but even they are susceptible to bad draw sometime and get rekt by vanish when they get all their glorious highmane and 10/6 hyennas on board.
 
Q

QFNS

Unconfirmed Member
Dahbomb said:
There's nothing slow about this Rogue deck, that's for sure. There's a massive gap between what Freeze Mage is doing and what Quest Rogue is doing. It's almost a different category of combo deck.

These MTG comparisons don't hold any weight anymore. It's a different game and Blizzard has systemically toned down all combo/solitaire aspects of the game over time. This Rogue Quest, despite how good or bad it is, is on borrowed time. This is probably not the type of game play experience Blizzard is looking at, which means they are watching the deck very closely.

We have seen this time and time again in HS. All it's going to take is for some pros to use the deck a bit more than average and the community to start rioting. At that point, win rates will not matter much and the nerf hammer will come down. Similar thing happened to Yogg, where its win rates weren't that high but the experience of playing against it was "bad" for the players involved.


In any case, this has been an interesting deck in the meta game. It feels degenerate at times but pretty much all good decks in card games do. They wouldn't be good if they didn't do something degenerate.
Click to expand...

I just can't see a way to commit a nerf to that deck without making the quest unplayable. If you make them 4/4s or something the quest is hot trash. So then you end up having to nerf stuff like Vanish, Glacial Shard or Swashburgler. None of which really feel like they are the core of the deck (well maybe Swashburgler..).

It's a really tough one to look at. That said though I think the deck is a lot less oppressive to the meta than the past dominant types have been. It can't really push out taunt warrior, or hunter (both of which frequently beat it), but it does certainly harm priest and the other miracle versions of rogue.

Honestly, any nerf that targets this quest deck is going to end up hurting the very fun and pretty good miracle deck too. That I don't think there's anything wrong with the miracle deck at all.
 
Q

Q8D3vil

Member
QFNS said:
I just can't see a way to commit a nerf to that deck without making the quest unplayable. If you make them 4/4s or something the quest is hot trash. So then you end up having to nerf stuff like Vanish, Glacial Shard or Swashburgler. None of which really feel like they are the core of the deck (well maybe Swashburgler..).

It's a really tough one to look at. That said though I think the deck is a lot less oppressive to the meta than the past dominant types have been. It can't really push out taunt warrior, or hunter (both of which frequently beat it), but it does certainly harm priest and the other miracle versions of rogue.

Honestly, any nerf that targets this quest deck is going to end up hurting the very fun and pretty good miracle deck too. That I don't think there's anything wrong with the miracle deck at all.
Click to expand...
They should at least make it countered by traditional counter plays like debuffs and silence. I tried playing palladin two days ago but it felt fucking useless when tarim and equality did jack shit.
Edit: nevermind got confused between priest mass dispell and my palladin games since i played them back to back.
 
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