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Heavy Rain reviews

Ploid 3.0

Ploid 3.0

Member
Don't some places rent consoles? I'm also psyched for HR because the early part of Indigo Prophecy. The whole hunting down the killer which you happen to play as first was interesting. So while the killer was trying to figure out what the crap is going on with him that made him kill, the detectives that you played were working on finding out about you. Never experienced a situation like that, and the first time I played it I tried to throw the detectives off thinking they could catch him quick (the cop can catch him in the diner = gameover though).

Although the whole plot of IP was supernatural voodoo type stuff (started off with it) the way they took it was so far into weird territory.

*Saving a kid from the ice - cool.
*Visiting a old lady in a spooky bird house - scary cool.
*Visiting a prison and having the power go out when your character is afraid of the dark and having loose prisoners in that dark as well - tense.
*Doing floating fighting - crazy.

What was the deal with the girl? I guess she was the indigo prophecy thingy?
 
G

Garjon

Member
Snipes424 said:
People are mad that the game is getting good reviews? The anger in this thread confuses me.
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I don't get it either, but it always seems to happen whether the reviews are good or bad. It just seems to bring out the worst in people =/
 
S

stupei

Member
Garjon said:
I don't get it either, but it always seems to happen whether the reviews are good or bad. It just seems to bring out the worst in people =/
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Anyone jumping into the official thread for a recently released game and criticizing it too harshly while most of the thread is still getting into the game and on that new release high are likely to be shut down pretty quickly. (If nothing else, just talked over.) Seems like people are treating review threads as their last chance to express dislike before being seen as an outright troll.
 
V

vazel

Banned
Reginald P. Linux said:
I didn't expect Heavy Rain to review this well, i'm surprised. Guess all those people saying it would bomb were wrong, looks like a hit.
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sales != review scores(nearly every big game gets high scores anyway). Let's hope it sells well I want to see an adventure game kick ass again.
 
T

thcsquad

Member
Lard said:
How about having it at the very end of the game like they did in Suikoden III with
the villain?
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I'm not saying it wouldn't be awesome if they put all of the extra content in on the disc so you could unlock it and play it at the end, without having to pay anything more. But there's a big difference between that and taking a chunk out of the story to sell as DLC. We all know David Cage is too pretentious to break up his beloved story into multiple parts :)

Seriously, though, I don't blame them for trying to get closer to a profit on the game anyway. Its a game with a AAA budget in a niche genre, not some suits trying to embezzle more money out of you. If this game comes with a virus that steals an extra $60 from the bank account of everybody who buys it, I'd still be shocked if it broke even. Of course, I hope I'm proven wrong.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
vazel said:
sales != review scores(nearly every big game gets high scores anyway). Let's hope it sells well I want to see an adventure game kick ass again.
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Who gives an flying crap about sales? ICO sold 500k copies. Demon's Souls didnt sell more than that either. Both of those games are absolutely incredible.
 
G

Gravijah

Member
RustyNails said:
Who gives an flying crap about sales? ICO sold 500k copies. Demon's Souls didnt sell more than that either. Both of those games are absolutely incredible.
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People that want sequels like sales.
 
V

vazel

Banned
RustyNails said:
Who gives an flying crap about sales? ICO sold 500k copies. Demon's Souls didnt sell more than that either. Both of those games are absolutely incredible.
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Sorry to inform you but sales do matter for future iterations of the same type of game from the developer(I doubt we'd get a direct sequel no matter what for this kind of game like with Indigo Prophecy) and most importantly in the survival of the developer.

And 500k for Ico is good I knew it did badly at first but it must've picked up steam. And Demon's Souls did well for the kind of game it is it exceeded Sony's expectations which they initially sent it out to die.
 
S

Snuggles

erotic butter maelstrom
I'm definitely looking forward to this game, but I personally don't put much stock into the one month early reviews from mostly obscure publications.
 
S

stupei

Member
RustyNails said:
Who gives an flying crap about sales? ICO sold 500k copies. Demon's Souls didnt sell more than that either. Both of those games are absolutely incredible.
Click to expand...

When you quote someone, check to see if they also have a quote above them. Read it. It will provide context for what the person you are quoting is referring to. This will be a big help in the future.
 
cicero

cicero

Member
GhaleonQ said:
I didn't want to pick another fight and the search function doesn't work. Please don't respond.

1. Awful storyteller.
-1a. Seems unaware of it.
2. Awful cinematographer.
-2a. Seems unaware of it.
3. Awful game designer.
-3a. Seems unaware of it.
4. Awful writer.
-4a. Seems unaware of it.
5. Awful and narrow understanding of available art.
-5a. Seems unaware of it.
6. You bill it as an interactive thriller - are you alone in what you're doing?
David Cage: Trying to tell stories with interactivity is something really difficult that some people tried in the past and many people failed, so there are less volunteers to try that again. So I think yeah, we're pretty much alone at the moment.

7. You know, in other words, what doesn't work, what you can improve, what you to try differently. But when you try a new genre you need to invent the words of this new language. And you can borrow; we borrowed from movies, we borrowed from television series and novels. But at the same time you have many missing words that you have to create and invent.

8. Eurogamer: You're a borrower, but from what?
David Cage: That's an interesting point, because in the game community sometimes there is a feeling that we should not borrow anything from anyone and just invent from scratch. If you look at the other mediums you realise it has never happened in the past. I mean, TV series borrowed from cinemas, cinemas borrowed from photographs, photographs borrowed from paintings. Nothing is created from scratch: everything has to start from established grounds.
With Heavy Rain we borrowed from cinema a lot and we borrowed from TV series, because there are some codes about how to tell a story, how to structure a story, how to create an emotional arc for the characters that are already established and very well demonstrated not only in movies but also in books.
There's no need to reinvent this. There's a very famous book written by someone called Joseph Campbell, it's very old, it's called The Hero with a Thousand Faces. It really influenced all Hollywood, because it analysed all the tales, mythology, this kind of stuff, to understand the basic rules to tell stories and to create characters. And this is what Hollywood uses, what most writers use these days. It's the same starting point for us. It can be the same starting point; it cannot be the whole thing. We are not cinema, we need to invent our own rules on top of this.

...You know what? I don't want to comb Eurogamer. Every interview he does is Denis Dyack-like. He's not very smart or well-read, but constantly references whatever's floated into his headspace that day.

http://www.destructoid.com/cage-heavy-rain-not-a-videogame-anymore-in-my-mind--158115.phtml I like that one.

"1UP: If you were to review Indigo Prophecy now, how successful would you say it was?

David Cage: Indigo Prophecy was the first game entirely based on narrative and characters, not using any standard game mechanics but only contextual actions and decisions affecting the story. ...It made me work on interactive storytelling for two years, a luxury that few game designers have, trying to find new writing techniques -- creating the concept of bending stories, for example -- and discovering all the difficulties of trying to tell an interactive story.
Indigo opened the way to a different type of experience, giving all the bricks any author would need to tell any kind of story."

How about that?

“Heavy Rain is not an extension of adventure games. It is a new type of experience”

I'm just copying and pasting now.

I hate it when he blames the audience for being too dumb to grasp his genius. I hate that he's so unambitious and uncreative even within the uncrowded field of "quick-time event" development. I hate that people give him any respect after the abominations that were his previous games. I hate that he takes up mindshare while real artists fall by the wayside. I hate that he refuses to answer what influenced Heavy Rain (presumably because he doesn't actually take in art). I hate his lack of self-awareness. I hate him because he's what every cultured person hates: a pretentious, middlebrow creator.
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GhaleonQ said:
Hey, all. I shot my mouth off before, so I wanted to apologize to the offended. I forget that people are invested in games differently than I am, and that leaning into my jabs on the Internet seems less like good-natured aggression than plain, old aggression. That was my mistake. I'm genuinely still curious about people's specific expectations (and my thanks go to those who responded), but I appeared needlessly belligerent about the worthiness of expectations. That's the default mode of pop culture conversation for people around me, but it appears far more serious when posted to NeoGAF. So, no, I don't take things THAT seriously and my hostility is not reserved for video game developers. If people are invested in games in a certain way, then I should adjust the way I write to them. It was all in good fun, honestly.

It's just video games, right? ALTHOUGH THE DAMNED DAVID CAGE WOULD HAVE US THING OTHERW-...Sorry.
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Why in the world did you apologize and back down? When did normal contrary opinions or criticism suddenly become so offensive that voicing it demands instant censure or attacks, or that a person would have to apologize profusely to keep from being attacked?? Not to mention the very real threat of being flippantly labeled a "troll" and quickly banned. Maybe the problem is that those people who you described as being "invested in games differently than I am" are invested too heavily in those games, individual developers, companies, or specific platforms.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
vazel said:
Sorry to inform you but sales do matter for future iterations of the same type of game from the developer(I doubt we'd get a direct sequel no matter what for this kind of game like with Indigo Prophecy) and most importantly in the survival of the developer.

And 500k for Ico is good I knew it did badly at first but it must've picked up steam. And Demon's Souls did well for the kind of game it is it exceeded Sony's expectations which they initially sent it out to die.
Click to expand...
Well, didn't ICO get a sort of quasi "sequel"? Quantic Dream very well knew they were going to be in the niche market with Heavy Rain, just like with Omikron and Fahreinheit. These guys are brave. I don't know if they are into making sequels regardless of sales.
 
T

thcsquad

Member
cicero said:
Why in the world did you apologize and back down? When did normal contrary opinions or criticism suddenly become so offensive that voicing it demands instant censure or attacks, or that a person would have to apologize profusely to keep from being attacked?? Not to mention the very real threat of being flippantly labeled a "troll" and quickly banned. Maybe the problem is that those people who you described as being "invested in games differently than I am" are invested too heavily in those games, individual developers, companies, or specific platforms.
Click to expand...

He said that he regretting shooting his mouth off, not offering a normal contrary opinion. There's legitimate criticism, and then there's
I hate that people give him any respect after the abominations that were his previous games.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying he never had valid points, but there's two ways to argue:
1. In a way that helps others see your viewpoint
2. In a way that pisses off everyone who doesn't share your viewpoint

On-topic about David Cage: He comes off as kind of self-absorbed, but so are half of the video game developers who make press. Plenty of them make great games, too. Still, in the same Eurogamer article, talked about the mistakes he made with Indigo Prophecy. Any designer who admits mistakes and tries to correct them is doing something right.
 
cicero

cicero

Member
thcsquad said:
He said that he regretting shooting his mouth off, not offering a normal contrary opinion. There's legitimate criticism, and then there's

I hate that people give him any respect after the abominations that were his previous games.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I know what he said. The point of my post wasn't that he qualified his apology or should have...

That sentence was among a list of other things he "hated" too. Is that now off-limits or "illegitimate" as well? Basic impressions or likes and dislikes? Are you not attempting to make this something personal rather than see it in a broader sense? And is that not part of the point of my post to begin with?


thcsquad said:
I'm not saying he never had valid points, but there's two ways to argue:
1. In a way that helps others see your viewpoint
2. In a way that pisses off everyone who doesn't share your viewpoint
Click to expand...
I certainly wasn't pissed off. But I don't have anything to become overly defensive about. I saw a reasonable post listing issues and things GhaleonQ didn't like or hated. Those comments DID help me to see his viewpoint. He had nothing to apologize for.
 
V

-viper-

Banned
Elan tedronai said:
Wow this thread turned ugly. i guess ps3 exclusives tend to bring the worst out of people
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I agree. There are some really sad people here who really need to get a life. But then again, this is NeoGAF dude.

hate hate hate hate

darth%20sidious.jpg
 
V

vazel

Banned
RustyNails said:
Well, didn't ICO get a sort of quasi "sequel"? Quantic Dream very well knew they were going to be in the niche market with Heavy Rain, just like with Omikron and Fahreinheit. These guys are brave. I don't know if they are into making sequels regardless of sales.
Click to expand...
Sony did greenlight more games from Team Ico. Just like they greenlit a sequel to Mark of the Kri even though that game did not sell a lot. Sony is awesome in greenlighting sequels to critically acclaimed games despite sales. Is Quantic Dream owned by Sony?

Indigo Prophecy did not do niche sales it sold 800k+. Not sure about Omikron but I'm sure it did well it was a highly hyped game.
 
S

stupei

Member
Elan tedronai said:
Wow this thread turned ugly. i guess ps3 exclusives tend to bring the worst out of people
Click to expand...

People have been arguing in all kinds of threads. Have you seen any Bioshock 2 thread pass by without people getting heated? It has nothing to do with platform and I don't really get what it is that makes some people think that this kind of thing only pops up around Sony exclusives unless those are the only threads they're looking at.
 
GhaleonQ

GhaleonQ

Member
cicero said:
Why in the world did you apologize and back down? When did normal contrary opinions or criticism suddenly become so offensive that voicing it demands instant censure or attacks, or that a person would have to apologize profusely to keep from being attacked?? Not to mention the very real threat of being flippantly labeled a "troll" and quickly banned. Maybe the problem is that those people who you described as being "invested in games differently than I am" are invested too heavily in those games, individual developers, companies, or specific platforms.
Click to expand...

I'm not backing down from my opinion. I don't think I was being hyperbolic, either. That whole list is exactly what I think. I meant that my original entrance in the topic was poorly thought out. To clarify, I didn't say anything nonsensical. A lot of people are invested personally into the games they play and take arguing about them seriously. So, I need to adjust the way I write, since that's what I can change. If someone made a topic and was hostile about how Love-De-Lic games are boring and childish and overrated, I'd probably take that person's opinion very seriously and personally instead of seeing it as a preference expressed aggressively. There's no reason to hurt people's feelings if I can avoid it.

Anyway, I'll stop with that.
 
K

Kittonwy

Banned
stupei said:
People have been arguing in all kinds of threads. Have you seen any Bioshock 2 thread pass by without people getting heated? It has nothing to do with platform and I don't really get what it is that makes some people think that this kind of thing only pops up around Sony exclusives unless those are the only threads they're looking at.
Click to expand...

I think some games just get more crap than others, some games it's like people have to be convinced to buy them (one little thing can trigger a non-buy) versus other games they merely have to be decent or have to be really revolting for people not to buy them (5/10? Fuck you review day one purchase!). I wouldn't say the Bioshock 2 thread is all that contentious, but then personally I don't really give a shit about Bioshock 2.
 
D

dramatis

Member
What are you guys talking about? This thread is great! :lol

Heavy Rain will probably sell plenty in Europe, not so much NA and Japan. I'm guessing that's how the Indigo Prophecy numbers turned out too. Am I wrong?
 
E

Einbroch

Banned
America > Europe.
PS3 > 360.
Pizza Rolls > Bagel Bites.
Dogs > Cats.
Circumcised > Not.

That said, this game wasn't really on my radar because I feared it would get terrible reviews. Now I'm interested.
 
Z

ZephyrFate

Banned
Einbroch said:
America > Europe.
PS3 > 360.
Pizza Rolls > Bagel Bites.
Dogs > Cats.
Circumcised > Not.

That said, this game wasn't really on my radar because I feared it would get terrible reviews. Now I'm interested.
Click to expand...
The last two are false.
 
D

Dr Bad Dude PHD

Banned
Elan tedronai said:
Wow this thread turned ugly. i guess ps3 exclusives tend to bring the worst out of people
Click to expand...
Later this year the 360 might get a worthwhile exclusive of its own, then we will see if the thread for it turns ugly also.
 
Melchiah

Melchiah

Member
Einbroch said:
America > Europe.
PS3 > 360.
Pizza Rolls > Bagel Bites.
Dogs > Cats.
Circumcised > Not.
Click to expand...
ZephyrFate said:
The last two are false.
Click to expand...

You must mean the first and the last are wrong.

I've always found guys who prefer cats suspicious. Do they also prefer cider over beer, and Twilight over 30 Days of Night?
 
P

PowderedToast

Junior Member
GhaleonQ said:
I'm not backing down from my opinion. I don't think I was being hyperbolic, either. That whole list is exactly what I think. I meant that my original entrance in the topic was poorly thought out. To clarify, I didn't say anything nonsensical. A lot of people are invested personally into the games they play and take arguing about them seriously. So, I need to adjust the way I write, since that's what I can change. If someone made a topic and was hostile about how Love-De-Lic games are boring and childish and overrated, I'd probably take that person's opinion very seriously and personally instead of seeing it as a preference expressed aggressively. There's no reason to hurt people's feelings if I can avoid it.

Anyway, I'll stop with that.
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i definitely agree with your stance on it. i haven't been able to articulate why i've become progressively more sour towards this game but that post summed it up. if it was 6 months ago i'd be excited for this but i dunno man, everything cage says rings hollow to me now.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
Elan tedronai said:
Wow this thread turned ugly. i guess ps3 exclusives tend to bring the worst out of people
Click to expand...

any exclusive brings out the worst in people. a good chunk of people that talked about nsmbw were positively dumb when it came to the game.

an ambitious title like this is bound to bring people around who support the effort so much beforehand that people who don't see what the big deal is all about only believe the reason someone would enjoy something like it is due to fanboyism.

personally, i hope this turns out to be a good game. i'm a little wary of review scores as of late since i get the feeling all of them are bought these days (even something like nmh2 averaging so high kinda raises red flags), but this was one of the reasons i bought a ps3 in the first place, and i loved indigo prophecy for a while.
 
T

Trailblaster

Banned
Kittonwy said:
I think some games just get more crap than others, some games it's like people have to be convinced to buy them (one little thing can trigger a non-buy) versus other games they merely have to be decent or have to be really revolting for people not to buy them (5/10? Fuck you review day one purchase!). I wouldn't say the Bioshock 2 thread is all that contentious, but then personally I don't really give a shit about Bioshock 2.
Click to expand...

4ghl5y.gif
 
D

DarkoMaledictus

Tier Whore
McLovin said:
Nice, I expect this game to have high review scores.. its sales that I'm worried about.
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I 100% agree with you, sales will probably be pretty bad. The game has no online, a very short campaign, no direct game play, yet some re playability due to different choices...

Personally, I can't see myself buying it, I'm sure its going to be a great experience, but lately I only buy games that can last me months/years and this is definitely not this type of game. Heck even God of war 3 I'm going to pass. But, I can't wait for super street fighter 4, supreme commander 2, alien vs predator and the new battlefield bad company.

Not sure if a lot of people are on the same boat... seems after I played Demon Souls I expect a lot from games, a lot more than just 10 hours of gameplay and be done with it...
 
R

RustyNails

Member
I also think this game will sell decidedly more in EU than NA. Isn't France getting a PS3 bundle? In NA, sure it will sell because there is an audience for that game. PS3 average users are 28+ with decent income and a college degree (in the US). These guys I assume got PS3 for watching movies and playing casual games. That's the demographic Sony has to shoot for.

As for Japan..its gonna be tough. Wait, doesn't Madison walk around in that bathroom wearing panties which you can drop or wear? Thats it! Market the entire game as a panty simulator!
 
Ploid 3.0

Ploid 3.0

Member
I want to see the commercial with that Playstation guy. I wonder how they will do it. Director of Investigations?
 
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