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[Haly]

It probably comes from theatre. If you watch J-dramas, you'll notice the acting tends to come off as "anime-ish", and it would only make sense to use a "gesture language" like that on stage, so audiences can see clearly what an actor's feelings are.

You'd probably have more success comparing anime to opera or musicals than to western film and television.

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

Just looks like lame introspection/navel gazing then a quick turn around to determination.

 

[Somnid]

That's bull. Unintentionally insulting to both the Japanese and foreign audiences, in fact. The Japanese are not "inscrutable" and Westerners are not completely unfamiliar with them. Western people have been understanding and seeing the human element in Japanese films since they started making them. People seem to get the human element just fine in older, actually less Westernized media like Ikiru, Tokyo Story, and even much more abstract things like Ran.

What we have here is the work of an insular community of Japanese game developers who gorged on nothing but tokusatsu shows, kaiju movies, manga, anime, and 70s and 80s Western action flicks. They're doing what they know from other pre-digested, often-imitated pop culture and it's just reflexive and expected. They're not observing from life and abstracting. They're just regurgitating visual tics from that stuff and doing it in a visual and tonal style that it does not mesh with properly.

The medium of Japanese film-making has never really embraced that hypothetical scenario though. The western school of film acting is based around subtlety and many criticisms of Japanese film especially from people who don't watch much of it is that it's often very overacted. It's simply a difference in what people expect much of it being a product of where it comes from and the art the preceded it. You'll see similar differences in comedic queues, story telling, art direction, voice acting and all the other parts that make up a work that comes from a particular cultural context.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

His voice says "Not interested". His body says, huh, "Come here" :/

that boy's trying to get PAID

 

[John Kowalski]

I remember reading about this in 2012, when there was a fad in Japan where girls were having cosmetic dentistry done to create the appearance of having snaggletooth. I don't know if it's still a thing, most articles are from 2011 to 2013.

This was because men found women with deformed teeth "approachable".

All cultures have their own perceptions of attractiveness and do things other cultures might find bizarre. Making women appear younger is not a Japanese-only trend, it just manifests differently over here than over there. But it's unnerving to see so many Japanese beauty trends actually disfiguring or compromising women. It reinforces a structure of disempowered women, which is unfortunate.

But I am not Japanese. I'm also circumcised and have no qualms with that. So, you know, culture.

brad muir would be super popular with japanese men!

 

[Kamina]

I've been thinking of such things too and came to the conclusion that Videogames, like Anime, must be still some form of theatrical experience in Japan.
When i think of Kabuki i see a lot of overly strong expressd gestures and habits, that also find use in japanese movies sometimes.
Could it just be a colutural thing to have powerful gestures rather than the subtile ones we have in the west?
This might also be why Lightning is often depicted as emotionless. She is not actually, but when compared to Serah and Snow with thier kabuki-like behaviors her more western way of acting would certainly look cold.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

[QUOTE="D";190886694]To kinda piggyback off of this, I always wondered why in games/animes people cross their arms and close their eyes while leaned up against something when speaking or explaining a situation...in real life that would just look odd[/QUOTE]

There are lot of things done in fiction that aren't common mannerisms in any real life culture. Fiction has its own version of visual and behavioral culture that expands over time.

Even something like the motion you described could become a common real life mannerism somewhere given influence and time. Art imitates life/life imitates art/etc.

 

[Inuhanyou]

One my friend absolutely HATES is the one where young girls who are running do the thing with their elbows shoved into their ribs shaking their arms around.

He will FREAK OUT whenever he sees that in an anime, and i just have to laugh.

I think the SnK anime actually had a titan at one point doing that run which was absolutely comical to see

 

[Samemind]

One my friend absolutely HATES is the one where young girls who are running do the thing with their elbows shoved into their ribs shaking their arms around.

He will FREAK OUT whenever he sees that in an anime, and i just have to laugh.

I think the SnK anime actually had a titan at one point doing that run which was absolutely comical to see

This is certainly one of this series' greatest contributions to pop culture.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I'm blown away that someone can't tell what is being shown just by looking at the action. Even out of context it seems obvious. In context it's even more obvious. It's similar to guy a cliutching his fist.

 

[Pyrrhus]

The medium of Japanese film-making has never really embraced that hypothetical scenario though. The western school of film acting is based around subtlety and many criticisms of Japanese film especially from people who don't watch much of it is that it's often very overacted. It's simply a difference in what people expect much of it being a product of where it comes from and the art the preceded it. You'll see similar differences in comedic queues, story telling, art direction, voice acting and all the other parts that make up a work that comes from a particular cultural context.

What hypothetical scenario? And I named three Japanese movies that all have subtle and at the same time thoroughly Japanese performances.I think there is absolutely a history of subtlety in Japanese culture and art. And yes, also abstract and exaggerated forms, like Kabuki and bunraku. I'm not disparaging Japanese cinema or art in general at all. But I don't think that's what they're drawing on here with their European world, modern boy band cast, and focus on Italian-style luxury goods and architecture.

I'm disparaging the way Square Enix will spend untold money and time on making sure a character has visual realism down to pores and slight imperfections on the surface of the skin, layers of subsurface scattering for that skin, and special shaders just for the surfaces of her eyeballs and then be so lazy with the writing and performances by just copying stiff, stereotypical gestures that have been churned and inbred in anime and manga for the last 40 years. The snake is eating its tail here when it comes to their creative process. And to anybody saying realism or verisimilitude were not their goals, the catch copy for this game is, "This is a fantasy based on reality."

 

[Dr.Acula]

Found an article on this shit that bugs me

I was watching this vid and the first thing that popped into my mind was 'she plays goalie.'

https://youtu.be/S95iNHkEuX4

 

[PtM]

I think it's a defensive gesture, a first step of contracting your extremities. It probably is supposed to display fear, worry or another discomfort.

 

[timetokill]

This is nothing, watch 10 seconds of professional wrestling if you want crazy ass body language.

An introspective moment of resolve is kids play by comparison

I definitely understand stage acting. Wrestling, as a form of stage play, needs these dramatic gestures because the audience isn't able to see subtle performances.

In the gif I posted, the camera is literally right up in her face. The perfect time for a subtle emotional cue. And yet we get that specific gesture.

I always associate the action with the Chinese idiom "西施捧心"

I can't find an exact translation of the idiom on the Internet, basically 西施(Xi Shi) is a woman regarded as one of the Four Beauties in Ancient China. She has some unspecific heart disease. So holding her hand around the heart while having a worrying/painful expression on her face is one of her symbolic body expression.

The idiom literally illustrate this body language, and people use it to describe woman that are ill yet elegant.

Now that is an interesting link to this. Thanks for posting this -- you could certainly see something like this being the root of such an expression a long time ago.

I'm disparaging the way Square Enix will spend untold money and time on making sure a character has visual realism down to pores and slight imperfections on the surface of the skin, layers of subsurface scattering for that skin, and special shaders just for the surfaces of her eyeballs and then be so lazy with the writing and performances by just copying stiff, stereotypical gestures that have been churned and inbred in anime and manga for the last 40 years. The snake is eating its tail here when it comes to their creative process. And to anybody saying realism or verisimilitude were not their goals, the catch copy for this game is, "This is a fantasy based on reality."

I think this is partly what throws me. It's not just Square, but it's a good example -- like you said, they have all the budget and technology they could want for this, they can put the camera literally anywhere in the scene and have the character do anything, and this is the action they choose. It made me think there must be a cultural significance to the action, because it certainly doesn't make me think the character is more realistic.

As some have said, art imitates life and then life imitates art, so maybe that's what's happening here -- I was wondering if maybe you had people doing this action in real life, and then it was a shorthand that had become reality. Or, as you suggested, creators have spent so much time absorbing anime and manga where these gestures have appeared so often that it has become the standard for any created works to use it despite its lack of realism.

Since my exposure to Japanese art is limited mostly to what is delivered to the west, I'm curious if maybe there are movements that criticize this kind of gestural shorthand or maybe even subvert it?

 

[fvng]

I was watching this vid and the first thing that popped into my mind was 'she plays goalie.'

https://youtu.be/S95iNHkEuX4

Oh wow this is the first time I've seen a real person do that

 

[True Fire]

Japanese tropes are more noticeable because we're Western gamers, but Western games have some pretty awful tropes as well.

Main character is a dark-haired white man with stubble and a dark expression. He has a troubled past that makes him emotionally distant, but he somehow manages to score a new lady in each game. He uses a gun. Box art features him posing with a gun, usually with his back turned or turned to the side. He kills hundreds of people without remorse, sometimes even wisecracking as he does it. Shoot shoot shoot kill kill kill.

I can only imagine what Japanese gamers thought of Western games last generation.

 

[timetokill]

Japanese tropes are more noticeable because we're Western gamers, but Western games have some pretty awful tropes as well.

Main character is a dark-haired white man with stubble and a dark expression. He has a troubled past that makes him emotionally distant, but he somehow manages to score a new lady in each game. He uses a gun. Box art features him posing with a gun, usually with his back turned or turned to the side. He kills hundreds of people without remorse, sometimes even wisecracking as he does it. Shoot shoot shoot kill kill kill.

I can only imagine what Japanese gamers thought of Western games last generation.

Nobody is saying there aren't tropes all over the place, including in the west. I'm not bemoaning the existence of tropes. What I'm saying is that I think I can at least explain the tropes you listed and their roots. I can explain their popularity. I can tell you why they are still used.

I can't explain why the motion I showed in the OP is used, especially in realistic works without real budgetary constraints. The most convincing argument I've seen is that it's meant to reaffirm the feminine nature of the character and that it's been a staple in popular Japanese media for so long that it's a go-to behavior despite not really being a relatable action.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Found an article on this shit that bugs me

Damn I most be extremely flexible because I can do this easy or this article is lying out it's teeth about this being hard to do which is more likely.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Nobody is saying there aren't tropes all over the place, including in the west. I'm not bemoaning the existence of tropes. What I'm saying is that I think I can at least explain the tropes you listed and their roots. I can explain their popularity. I can tell you why they are still used.

I can't explain why the motion I showed in the OP is used, especially in realistic works without real budgetary constraints. The most convincing argument I've seen is that it's meant to reaffirm the feminine nature of the character and that it's been a staple in popular Japanese media for so long that it's a go-to behavior despite not really being a relatable action.

That's the point man. Its a Japanese cultural media based trope system. Similar to the character archetypes that have been created through that same media. Sure you could go back and through research figure out why if you were really obsessed about it, but that's how it is.

Just commenting on how its weird doesn't really make any statement besides commenting on how you don't understand.

 

[fvng]

Damn I most be extremely flexible because I can do this easy or this article is lying out it's teeth about this being hard to do which is more likely.

Have you considered tha it's not easier for others?

 

[A-V-B]

I've always wondered about the pose in the original, as well.

I believe it's actually a derivation, and the trope it comes from in Japanese media designates someone who's sensitive. Hands clapsed near chest/heart, praying to some otherworldly force because they want good things to happen. Or not literally praying, but doing the clasp all the same.

I can't tell you the number of times I've seen it on covers for anime and manga. Rough and tumble action dude... and on the side somewhere, a sensitive, passive spiritual girl praying. It's so stock it's almost infuriating, but there it is.

 

[Earthpainting]

The gesture seems quite theatrical, so I assume it comes from Japanese stage performances. Can't say it looks too hard to interpret to me. She's clenching her fist close to chest. It directs the action close to her to create a personal and fragile moment for a second, then channels that same gesture into determination. It looks unnatural, but it works.

I have a theory that JRPG will never have the same acceptance in the worlwide market as they had in the 90s because voice and body language. It's too strange/different to western audiences.

Vanille is a clear example of this, she represents the same trope as Yuffie and Selphie, for example, and everybody hates her - because of her voice and manneirisms. I can see Yuffie becoming the new Vanille on FFVII's remake.

I kind of agree with this. I'm thinking back to all the voiced genki characters in games, and I don't are for a single one of them. I also think it plays a big part in why Tidus has a similar reception in so many people's eyes.

I think voice acting also exposed a lot of speech mannerisms in Japanese games that the localisers really should have filtered out. Characters repeating what was just said, but slightly rephrasing it as a question really grinds my gears. I know it's just a cultural thing to show you're paying attention and to break up what is often a monologue infodump, but it never sounds natural to.

 

[lazygecko]

One my friend absolutely HATES is the one where young girls who are running do the thing with their elbows shoved into their ribs shaking their arms around.

He will FREAK OUT whenever he sees that in an anime, and i just have to laugh.

I think the SnK anime actually had a titan at one point doing that run which was absolutely comical to see

It does look pretty damn awful. I think that kind of stuff is a result of flanderization and the increasingly insular nature of the medium.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I think the problem with this is less it being "Japanese language" and more the "name saying" being written as a filler dialogue. It's entirely possible to say a person's name with no follow up but have tone and meaning in it. I've watched a couple of Jdramas and they certainly don't employ much of the "say a name without follow up" thing.

It probably helps that it's easier to animate one name say than longer lines of dialogue, so using it a lot in anime/games saves some effort.


The "clasp hand to heart" motion I've always taken as the portrayal of a 'heartfelt girl', because the gesture makes the character seem girlish and innocent to the viewer, I suppose. I don't like it, and the moment I see it I know what the creator is trying to do lol

The devs are not trying to make FF artistically as a cartoon, but what they lack are actors and actresses who give them the more natural gestures of good acting. What they rely on is the tried and true 'animated' poses, which is probably why you get the gif you get in the OP. Like SE Japan has a lot of technology, but they can't do the subtlety of acting. Something like this:

Isn't something they can do because 1) they don't write characters like this and 2) they are unable to come up with the kinds of subtle physical manipulations that a real actress could to portray a character.

The thing is that they're using performance capture, so if they were to give the actors good direction theoretically they would be able to get the subtleties of acting down if they bothered to portray the human condition in an accurate way like so many western devs do these days.

 

[StayDead]

[QUOTE="D";190886694]To kinda piggyback off of this, I always wondered why in games/animes people cross their arms and close their eyes while leaned up against something when speaking or explaining a situation...in real life that would just look odd[/QUOTE]

I must be weird, because I actually do this. I naturally cross my arms quite a lot and often find when explaining things leaning up against something more comfortable than standing up straight.

The closing the eyes thing I sometimes do when I'm trying to explain something to someone and I don't feel confident enough to look at them to view their reaction if it's something serious.

 

[Auto-Reply]

Don't know if there is a direct explanation but it just looks like typical overexaggerated body language to me that tells the audience that there is an emotional and maybe spiritual moment going on.

The pointed down head could be seen as a form of shame or obedience or just thinking about something that is important.

But combined with the hand going near the heart making a grasping motion also looks like an emotional gesture so it's probably the latter.

In the end it's maybe only to display the character in a state where their defense is down and they are showing some form of emotional connection to whatever the context of the scene is.

 

[Meffer]

I know of this gesture. That stupid princess in Sonic 06 did that all the time in almost every scene she was in. It was hilarious.

 

[Chariot]

Nobody is saying there aren't tropes all over the place, including in the west. I'm not bemoaning the existence of tropes. What I'm saying is that I think I can at least explain the tropes you listed and their roots. I can explain their popularity. I can tell you why they are still used.

I can't explain why the motion I showed in the OP is used, especially in realistic works without real budgetary constraints. The most convincing argument I've seen is that it's meant to reaffirm the feminine nature of the character and that it's been a staple in popular Japanese media for so long that it's a go-to behavior despite not really being a relatable action.

Characters acting generally more theatralic is part of the draw anime have on people. It's something I think japanese cinema is more able to use than western (though I don't want to imply to know much about film making). Showing emotion through visual means and anime takes this to the next level with the possibilities of animation. Emotions are visualized by all means. Changing the artstyle, the background, very dramatic movements and perspectives, manga and anime are bursting with emotions and often emotions not just happen in some scene, thr whole scene supports the emotion. This includes cuts to scenes that have not much to do with anything, just to support the emotion. Like cutting to a dove taking flight, something connected to a person breaking and especially the max level shit anime studik Shaft likes to do. I imagine japanese videogames doing similiar (I didn't play that many modern ones that have actual 3D cutscenes).

 

[oti]

Diarrhea... INTENSIFIES

 

[Dio]

Characters acting generally more theatralic is part of the draw anime have on people.

It's part of the origins of modern Japanese content - anime, cutscenes in games, dramas, what have you, all originate from the Kabuki style of theater which emphasizes dramatic exaggeration of movement and the like.

For example, Japanese spoken in anime/drama is markedly different from in movies, and not in the same way as we think of it - if you talked like you were a character in an anime to an actual Japanese person, they'd think you were a weirdo. It's way more different than, like, talking in movie quips or something - spoken dialogue in movies and TV shows tends not to be all that different from spoken English as we normally speak it. The clear divide between the fictional (in language and performance) and reality is something not present in, say, American works (where many are trying their hardest to emulate reality or make something feel 'realistic.')

 

[May16]

It's a simple way of showing intimacy.

That no one uses XD

 

[televator]

On pinpointing the origin, in addition to other more scientific sources - since it is a visual medium - I would also look for clues on older films, animation, paintings, and theater.

I mean, do people in the real world even perform things like this? Or is it just something that comes from actors and paintings

I've seen kids cry like that IRL... I've probably done it as a kid too.

 

[Shai-Tan]

acting in general is full of nonverbal behavior which is unnatural, meant to communicate an internal state. when we praise good acting it often means it's more complex, less cliche ridden relative to other acting, although there are many instances where I would praise acting for being natural e.g. De Niro in Taxi Driver.

 

[dramatis]

The thing is that they're using performance capture, so if they were to give the actors good direction theoretically they would be able to get the subtleties of acting down if they bothered to portray the human condition in an accurate way like so many western devs do these days.

I agree. I thought about that while writing the post. In the end, it's likely the videos we see from Naughty Dog are not representative of the process they employ at SE Japan. While performance capture is used, it's often not done by the voice actors. The direction and presentation are probably more firmly controlled in terms of what the directors/writers want to portray.

 

[lukeskymac]

Japanese tropes are more noticeable because we're Western gamers, but Western games have some pretty awful tropes as well.

Main character is a dark-haired white man with stubble and a dark expression. He has a troubled past that makes him emotionally distant, but he somehow manages to score a new lady in each game. He uses a gun. Box art features him posing with a gun, usually with his back turned or turned to the side. He kills hundreds of people without remorse, sometimes even wisecracking as he does it. Shoot shoot shoot kill kill kill.

I can only imagine what Japanese gamers thought of Western games last generation.

That's not a good comparison at all. We're talking about body language, mannerisms and subtlety (and lack of thereof). You're just describing a broad archetype and framing it negatively, as if such things didn't happen all the time in Japanese culture as well - hell, they've often got names for the stuff.

 

[PtM]

I think it's a defensive gesture, a first step of contracting your extremities. It probably is supposed to display fear, worry or another discomfort.

Having looked now at the full (50 effing fps) gif, that is just a mixture of holding your breath, praying/discomfort and clenching your fist for courage.

 

[NathanS]

Yes these sort of clichés, and yes that's what they are, I don't care what the hacks at TV Tropes say, get the general idea across quickly, but like clichés in writing they don't speak to the specifics of the situation or character. they don't draw the viewer in by not only telling us about how the character is generally feeling at the moment, but by telling us how this unique individual feels about this unique moment. It's a quick mindless thing thrown up because finding a unique bit of acting that conveys the same meaning just as clearly well being unique to the character and moment is hard.

It's the visual equivalent of:

"I had to reach the end of my rope before I could reach for the stars. I had to hope against hope that I’d soon see the light at the end of the tunnel. After all, what comes around goes around, and I’d spread it around pretty thick."

 

[Meffer]

I remember reading about this in 2012, when there was a fad in Japan where girls were having cosmetic dentistry done to create the appearance of having snaggletooth. I don't know if it's still a thing, most articles are from 2011 to 2013.

This was because men found women with deformed teeth "approachable".

All cultures have their own perceptions of attractiveness and do things other cultures might find bizarre. Making women appear younger is not a Japanese-only trend, it just manifests differently over here than over there. But it's unnerving to see so many Japanese beauty trends actually disfiguring or compromising women. It reinforces a structure of disempowered women, which is unfortunate.

But I am not Japanese. I'm also circumcised and have no qualms with that. So, you know, culture.

This goes for any culture as you said. Some more extreme than others. Plastic surgery imo is one of most in that regard.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I've always wondered why japanese chicks seem to through up a peace sign in every photo. I assumed it was some type of cultural thing but really have no idea.

 

[Silent Chief]

It's an attempt at showing reflection without using a monolog.

In this case it's showing an internal conflict with a resolution of doing something or trusting someone to do something.

In Uncharted, Drake uses the monolog frequently instead.
Do you do that in real life?

I'm more annoyed with the dialogs that includes lines like "...".
You know like 15 lines of dialogs back and forth which doesn't actually mean anything.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I agree. I thought about that while writing the post. In the end, it's likely the videos we see from Naughty Dog are not representative of the process they employ at SE Japan. While performance capture is used, it's often not done by the voice actors. The direction and presentation are probably more firmly controlled in terms of what the directors/writers want to portray.

I must have misunderstood because aside from mocapping the gameplay elements with separate actors, I was lead to believe that they were using full performance capture for the Japanese version and then keyframing the facial animation for the english dub. Still it's not uncommon to see actors working with the audio of the VA. Just to name a few recent examples, B:AK and the Gears Remaster.

 

[Sojourner]

I know people say that the gesture is not something you see in real life, but it is. I wish I wasn't able to say that though. I am currently attending college in an animation program, and while I am certainly one of the older students there (34) and grew up in the 80's with those cartoons, most of the students there are not. They grew up with more modern stuff and are far more influenced by anime as it is more popular among them. While I won't deny I watch anime from time to time, I am highly critical of it and have high standards for what anime I do watch. Extremely Japanese body language, gestures, humor, and other cultural references tend to put me off. In turn, I'm not the most social person at my school because I see other students doing all of those things all the time. Kawaii gestures or resolute gestures or defiant gestures that are constantly seen in anime but not in western cartoons/culture are used quite frequently. Gestures like the one in the OP or squishing cheeks with index fingers or split-v-index-middle finger-to the face gesture. Plain wierd stuff (to me) that is highly Japanese.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I know people say that the gesture is not something you see in real life, but it is. I wish I wasn't able to say that though. I am currently attending college in an animation program, and while I am certainly one of the older students there (34) and grew up in the 80's with those cartoons, most of the students there are not. They grew up with more modern stuff and are far more influenced by anime as it is more popular among them. While I won't deny I watch anime from time to time, I am highly critical of it and have high standards for what anime I do watch. Extremely Japanese body language, gestures, humor, and other cultural references tend to put me off. In turn, I'm not the most social person at my school because I see other students doing all of those things all the time. Kawaii gestures or resolute gestures or defiant gestures that are constantly seen in anime but not in western cartoons/culture are used quite frequently. Gestures like the one in the OP or squishing cheeks with index fingers or split-v-index-middle finger-to the face gesture. Plain wierd stuff (to me) that is highly Japanese.

People imitating anime mannerisms is not an indication that these are common gestures you see in life. Anime is an incredibly insular medium with many artists imitating each other instead of drawing from life via observation and past experiences.

 

[Solid Samus]

I kinda just want someone to explain to me why eyepatch lolis are a thing

 

[Chariot]

I kinda just want someone to explain to me why eyepatch lolis are a thing

I don't think that's a particular loli thing. Eye-patches in general are a thing for any kind of character, including lolis.

 

[Joyful]

I kinda just want someone to explain to me why eyepatch lolis are a thing

eyepatches are moe

 

[rpmurphy]

I kinda just want someone to explain to me why eyepatch lolis are a thing

If you're talking about the chuuni trope, it's pretending that the eyepatch is sealing some sort of power. Similar with arm bandages.

In general, it's just another cool-looking facial accessory like pirate eyepatches, futuristic scanners, or eye scars.

Talking with one eye closed gets me though, that shit is just dumb.

 

[Pyrrhus]

I kinda just want someone to explain to me why eyepatch lolis are a thing

Rei Ayanami.

 

[Vital Tundra]

Whatever it means, they should really stop doing it. The character is already believable enough. Use that facial technology to convey emotion. I hate how inhuman these characters act.

It's the most anime bull crap and needs to stop. It's like they don't know how people act.

 

[Chariot]

Rei Ayanami.

I don't think that counts. Neither as loli nor as eyepatch, nor as as eyepatch trope, since she is actually needs it and doesn't wear it all the time.

Whatever it means, they should really stop doing it. The character is already believable enough. Use that facial technology to convey emotion. I hate how inhuman these characters act.

I disagree. The way anime is expressing emotion is part of what makes it special. Sometimes it's stupid, but I would miss it, if it were gone as a common thing.