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Help, my child is addicted to freemium shovelware
- Thread starter Deactivision
- Start date
I've never believed in letting your kids "do what they want".
don't let other kids and corporations influence/raise your child.
if you are genuinely looking out for his/her best interest down the road (and not trying to live through them), then step in. You seem VERY reasonable from what you've wrote so far.
don't let other kids and corporations influence/raise your child.
if you are genuinely looking out for his/her best interest down the road (and not trying to live through them), then step in. You seem VERY reasonable from what you've wrote so far.
Ingueferroque
Banned
It seems to me like you underestimate the influence the outside world has on a developing mind. Having your child exposed to pervasive life-invading tendencies of these skinner boxes does not seem like a good move, or not something a parent should actively allow.
This is beyond violence, or censorship. This has to do with developing patterns in his mind. It will actively influence how his brain develops.
Edit:
There IS science behind it. Like I said, these F2P games influence his SCHEDULE, his BEHAVIOUR. They will make him DEPENDENT on the game. He will feel obliged to keep 'working' on these games, as is evidenced by the OP describing his child's patterns.
This has nothing to do with shooting up people in COD or running over ladies with cars.
Circle Jerk
Member
So OP let me get this straight: you have limited his time with the games, which he abides to. You don't let him buy anything, whcih he abides to. He's okay with the waiting. He says he's having fun with them.
And you honestly think he's going to be okay or happy with you taking them away so he can play a "real" game? And not only that, but one that you've decided is a real game he'll enjoy without asking him?
Congratulations, you have turned into the parent who, when seeing their child not liking what they like, have decided that it's unhealthy, and that by playing what YOU like they'll be much happier and healthier. No dude. You already put limits on your kid. He's following them. You've done your job as a parent. He starts breaking the rules, then you have a problem. Until then, be the good parent you've been up to know, and don't fall into the shitty parent trap.
And you honestly think he's going to be okay or happy with you taking them away so he can play a "real" game? And not only that, but one that you've decided is a real game he'll enjoy without asking him?
Congratulations, you have turned into the parent who, when seeing their child not liking what they like, have decided that it's unhealthy, and that by playing what YOU like they'll be much happier and healthier. No dude. You already put limits on your kid. He's following them. You've done your job as a parent. He starts breaking the rules, then you have a problem. Until then, be the good parent you've been up to know, and don't fall into the shitty parent trap.
Impeccable
Member
I am not underestimating it in any capacity. My problem in this case is pretending like mobile games are actually scientifically proven to be worse for a developing mind than any other given videogame. Yes, it's a new and developing market but just because one game is better at hiding it doesn't mean it's safer.
Edit also: What about a child who goes, "okay, I'm done with this game" and drops it like it's hot. I know I'm done with the game when I'm done and I know a friend's older child (10) who was playing similar games and moved on. I've never seen any actual real life or scientific data to say these fundamentally destroy a child's mind. I would happily admit I'm wrong if you have a link.
stuminus3
Member
Wow. Where are you getting this from?
Circle Jerk
Member
A Skinner box is where you train a subject to perform actions and in return you get positive stimuli. This happens in every game, minus some indie art titles. This is not a free to play issue, and if you think it is, publishers are doing their jobs. COD? You kill people and are rewarded with new perks, and weapons. In the new one you don't even have to level up. Mario? You jump and kill enemies to get to the end of the level, to get a new level and world. GTA? You beat missions that get you weapons to cause mayhem. These are all skinner boxes, and it's done like that on purpose. EVERY game maker makes games to keep you coming back, to have you commit an action and get a positive reinforcement out of it, because then you come back and buy the next one. The only difference is, you've deluded yourself into thinking that as long as you pay $60 up front, it's okay. It's not psychological manipulation, that's only for free to play games.
Ingueferroque
Banned
But they are different questions, discussions.
This is not about CONTENT, it is about the PATTERNS that these games will instill on its player.
Leveling up in Final Fantasy is NOT the same as having to log in to a F2P game 4 times a day to click on a box or two so you can not miss out on getting more gems tomorrow. Stop pretending like it is.
D Bo Chops
Member
My nephews were the same. The main reason they even played mobile games though, is cuz of their friends. The parents didn't allow them to purchase stuff which made the games stale and boring and they eventually got bored on their own. Peer pressure to download the newest mobile game is fierce in elementary/middle school aged kids. Its funny cuz my nephews even adimitted to knowing that the games suck and are just a waste of time lol.
Impeccable
Member
The child actively CANNOT log into a game four times a day to click boxes. Stop pretending a nine year old child enrolled in education has the ability to do so.
Ingueferroque
Banned
What world do you live in, where children don't have access to cell phones or ipod touches?
For those saying that I'm arguing to make games less addicting/rewarding, that is not what I am saying.
Strip out the gameplay of COD, and reduce it to logging in, clicking on a few things, just to keep your EXP tally go up and up each time you log in subsequently. And then give Activision your phone number so they can give you a text message every time they have a bonus multiplier.
Boom.
Visualante2
Member
No Deactivision, the only monster in this house is the free-to-play gaming monster that has enslaved your son. I call him.. gamblor and it's time to snatch him back from his neon claws!
Most exploitative free to play games use hard core psychology to manipulate players, some even borrow from work done by addiction specialists for Nevada casinos.
If your kid is addicted to this stuff, you need to have a long hard look at whether you let him keep the ipod touch. Exposing children to these kinds of addictive systems can increase the chances of things like problem gambling later in life.
If your kid is addicted to this stuff, you need to have a long hard look at whether you let him keep the ipod touch. Exposing children to these kinds of addictive systems can increase the chances of things like problem gambling later in life.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Circle Jerk
Member
You know I actually missed this post the first time, and it is incredibly depressing. Your kid is enjoying the time he has with you watching you play games. He enjoys the time he is playing the games he enjoys. You've even given him a 3DS and he wasn't all about it. And you know this, and you don't care. You see him enjoying time with you playing games and think, well then he MUST love these games. No, he likes hanging out with his dad. He likes playing free to play games because they're fun. He didn't have that fun when he was playing a 3DS.
Why can't that be good enough for you? Why can't he enjoy his games? What else does he like or do that you're going to put an end to not because it's hurting him, but simply because you don't like it? Has any kid actually liked it when their parent stops them from doing something they like and isn't hurting them so their parent can force their taste on them?
Impeccable
Member
A world where they confiscate those if used inappopriately at school. So... just generally the world.
Listen, this particular child gets to play when he's home. He gets to rock his timers once per game before bed. He doesn't go, "OH MAN OH MAN I'm not optimal" No, he's thinking, "Yay, time for my daily attack or build... my friends and I are having fun!"
Circle Jerk
Member
This one, where the OP limits the amount of time he can play a day. And said that a couple times in this thread already. You aren't even arguing about this kid anymore, you have an axe to grind, and you're going to use this kid to do it. Disgusting.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Are you sure of this? The games would barely even work if he just played them once/day. He'd be making zero progress for most of these games.
Are you joking? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
BrokenIcarus
Member
I agree on all merits we shouldnt expose our children to gambling. That's all these games are, gambling!
More_Badass
Member
What if I told you that these evil F2P games require tactics, managing units and bases and resources, planning attacks and strategies (because games like Clash of Clans and Boom Beach are RTS's)
"log in to a F2P game 4 times a day to click on a box or two"
You obviously have a very narrow shallow understanding what these games are or what you do in them
Impeccable
Member
Send him a text he isn't playing optimally. I don't think he cares that much.
jellies_two
Member
and this is why my kid is not gonna get an ipod touch..
you would let your kids watch tv, but not any tv!
these games are designed by shrinks to tweak our dopamine system, they are experimenting. Who knows what they do to developing brains? Screw that.
Games rated G are not all the same, just the rating system has not caught up to this.
I know kids peer pressure is a fearsome thing but he can find other friends who dont revolve around clash of clans.
you would let your kids watch tv, but not any tv!
these games are designed by shrinks to tweak our dopamine system, they are experimenting. Who knows what they do to developing brains? Screw that.
Games rated G are not all the same, just the rating system has not caught up to this.
I know kids peer pressure is a fearsome thing but he can find other friends who dont revolve around clash of clans.
stuminus3
Member
Hmm, I'm not entirely sure you're being serious here.
Impeccable
Member
He's not even talking about the softcore stuff.
Circle Jerk
Member
This is a pathetic level of debate. You actively downplay the game play required in a free to play game, ignore the realities of how the child in question is playing these games, and move the goal posts of your argument over and over.
Deactivision
Member
Whoa, whoa. It definitely can be enough, don't get me wrong. I don't need him to play the games I like, I've already gotten well past that particular hang up. I guess I'm just concerned that maybe he's into these games because they are built to be addictive, not because they're fun. Maybe a 9 year old doesn't know the difference, it's all dopamine or whatever... But I admit I don't know much about them, which is why I came here. There's a lot of dissenting opinions, all of them are interesting and relevant to me right now.
He does only play them for an hour each day -- at my house. Things are a little different at his mom's, but I don't have any control over that half of his life. There seems to be enough to do across all the games that he can fill that hour, somehow. He seems to have adapted his strategies in CoC to his playing time allowances, choosing fast-spawning troops and such.
Impeccable
Member
Yeah, your little guy is learning time management and having fun. As long as it stays like this I personally would allow my daughter to keep playing the same situation. Seems like you're on the ball and your kid is doing his thing.
No problem here.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
Depends on if you view mobile as a gateway to whaling and equate it to something like being on the path to life as a degenerate gambler.
Ingueferroque
Banned
So the iPod Touch is only available at your house, correct?
Hey, as long as you are on top of it. That's awesome. You sound like a great dad.
The Lamonster
Member
OP do you understand the definition of "shovelware?"
Maybe you should roll with the new (mobile games aren't evil!) and let your son play what makes him happy? Just make sure to disable IAP.
Maybe you should roll with the new (mobile games aren't evil!) and let your son play what makes him happy? Just make sure to disable IAP.
Impeccable
Member
If not there's a report going into CPS by Ing at this rate.
Because dammit this is gaf and it's our job to force our opinions on each other/jk
If you give your son an hour of screen time, it's up to him how to spend it. As long as he isn't throwing away money on IAPs, let it run its course. Eventually he'll get bored of them. The other thing is to keep introducing him to other better games and eventually one with hook him.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Stop making this about me. I am merely arguing about F2P games and their effects on human behavior. It's not like I'm shouting about wizardry or strange magicks here.
I have made valid points, even if you disagree with them.. which is why we have a forum, to discuss. There is no need to make this about me, either respond to my arguments or ignore me.
Barkley's Justice
Member
You're just old, Dad...
More_Badass
Member
Actually your described F2P game of pressing a box four times a day is nothing at like the games this kid plays or even a realistic example of these games (many of which are RTSs that require tactics, troop management, planning, etc) so your argument of these games being mindless Skinner boxes with no gameplay or entertainment value beyond addiction makes no sense
Impeccable
Member
Still waiting on the science, though.
Deactivision
Member
Nah, it gets shuffled back and forth with him when possible, it's his device and he wants to be able to use it there too.
Maybe a bit of a sensationalist title, I admit I have a bias though.
I don't know man. Reminds me of ths situation when I was a kid and my folks were trying to limit my NES playing time. I told them that since I was getting A's and B's, I could afford to play abit here and there and they let me off rhe hook. I rarely myself played until the crack of dawn, but I see your point with freemium games. As long as your kid is excelling in grades, let him play. If you're worried about him not going out, do physical activitied with him. I was signed up to many sports and slowly weaned from just gaming alone.
akachan ningen
Member
As long as you limit his playing time, its fine. Maybe he'll get sick of video games and do something more constructive.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
Play the games on your own device and constantly send him and his friends invites.
Talk about how such-and-such game is super radical in front of his friends.
Like the Chinpokomon episode of south park.
Talk about how such-and-such game is super radical in front of his friends.
Like the Chinpokomon episode of south park.
More_Badass
Member
@OP, I listed some recommendations on the previous page. Perhaps you could try introducing your son to F2P games or even paid games in other genres on IOS to see what he likes and interests, thus making it easier to find applicable games on other platforms
I made this thread last year, has a 100+ and growing list of the best that IOS gaming has to offer:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=921676
The most recent updates are on the last page, because I ran out of space in the OP posts
I made this thread last year, has a 100+ and growing list of the best that IOS gaming has to offer:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=921676
The most recent updates are on the last page, because I ran out of space in the OP posts
stuminus3
Member
I had this one friend as a kid, his parents had this egg timer and everyone in the house was allowed to play on the computer (an Atari 800) for just 30 minutes using this egg timer. Because sitting at a computer was bad, right?
The weird thing was that if he had friends over, they'd get their own 30 minutes. So he'd play for 30 minutes then I'd play for 30 minutes and we couldn't even play together. I'd literally be sitting in this guy's house in the room by myself playing his computer for 30 minutes. I'd have to go do something else while he played his 30 minutes.
Guy lost his mind after high school, got heavy into pot then who knows what. I think Deactivision is probably doing just fine.
Deactivision
Member
Thanks man, I saw your list and will check out those games. Are any of them of the Clash of Clans strategy type? That seems to be his particular fixation right now.
More_Badass
Member
Autumn Dynasty and Autumn Dynasty Warlords are some of the best (and prettiest) RTSs on mobile
Also Block Fortress War is pretty good too
Those three all have multiplayer as well
(These are paid games though)
Out of the list on the other page, no, those are mostly arcade action, racing, and platformers
Do you know what about Clash of Clans he likes? I asked my room mate's son why he likes Clash of Clans so much, he said he likes building and upgrading his little town. So I showed him SimCity (it's a good game if you're totally clueless about the earlier titles), and he was hooked for days. I think he's forgotten around Clash of Clans since then.
Who do you think B.F. Skinner was?