HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
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History class! Pre-Steam PC gaming
- Thread starter L Thammy
- Start date
irfaanator
Banned
holy shit, I remember playing that chinese fighting game on the cover back in the day. Still don't remember what I was doing. We also had the original duke nukems, doom, and wolfenstein from those cds.
A Black Falcon
Member
I few up on PC gaming, it was my main gaming platform through the '90s, so I've got a lot of nostalgia for older PC games, that's for sure. The PC in the '90s is without question the best gaming platform ever. 
On a somewhat related note that I can't help but think about, here's my thread from a few years ago about how sad it is that what PC gaming used to be died: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=390128
And yes, I stand by most of it. Since then the growth of digital-download services has continued, and that's great, and even better is Kickstarter which has led to more significant PC-focused games than we'd seen in a long time, but still almost all big-budget titles are designed for consoles, for financial reasons surely. Regardless of the reasons, it's sad that the days when games like TIE Fighter or Grim Fandango got big budgets is now long-gone. Today's smaller-budget PC games are far better than the almost nothing we had for the better part of a decade before that on the platform, though. But losing retail shelf space and larger-budget titles proved to be lasting issues. Today PC gaming isn't really "dead" anymore, but its second life isn't anywhere near as successful, in terms of exclusives and games designed for the platform, as its first was.
But of course, things change. In the future retail won't be as important as it has been, and smartphone/tablet gaming has surely taken a big chunk out of casual PC gaming as well. The budget and exclusives issues are still significant, though, and the problems of trying to find better ways of helping people actually find games when there aren't physical stores to go to that carry a relevant number of PC games and supporting the good PC exclusives which do get made are important. I'm definitely not expecting a TIE Fighter 2 with a major console-game budget anytime in the forseeable future, though, unfortunately.
Skunny Kart actually isn't all THAT bad either, really. It's mostly worth disliking for the scummy backstory behind it... you know, about how ... suspiciously similar ... its engine is to Wacky Wheels, and the story that they actually basically stole it or something and used it in Skunny Kart. CopySoft indeed...
However, I don't think the Atari thing is just because of that. I mean, yeah, most people who like those games the most are ones who grew up with them, but I know some younger people do like the NES and beyond, but many fewer people like second-gen gaming. I've come to enjoy 2nd gen games, even though I did not play them as a kid, but they're just something to play for a few minutes, not more substantive experiences. I think more people would like them if they gave them a chance, honestly... but most don't, either because of the heavy score-attack focus, that many of the games aren't that good, the often basic graphics, or what have you. It's understandable, and it being something they didn't grow up with is surely a part of it, but I don't think it's the only part. The NES redefined console gaming, and for gamers today NES games are more familiar than Atari games in terms of gameplay.
That said, I grew up with PC gaming first of course, and then PC and Game Boy; I only could play console games when visiting a friends' house who had one. And I'm sure this has had a big influence on my gaming tastes. I mean, I love gaming in general and I like games from all generations and platforms, but stuff like saving in platformers, for instance... I'm sure that one of the major reasons why platformers not having saving bothers me so much is that most of the PC platformers I was playing in the early '90s had saving, so I expect it from better games in the genre.
[quote[In summation, without going into detail about my theory - you generally are comfortable playing games in the style of games you grew up playing. Lots of people grew up with a particular style of game that is pervasive today, but was just a sliver of gaming back in the 80's and 90's. That said, that sliver offers much for these modern gamers to explore. For example, if you like platformers like Mario or Sonic, there is a ton of stuff worth playing on these retro machines. Stuff like Jazz Jackrabbit or Great Giana Sisters of Meyhem in Monsterland or Zool 2 or Chuck Rock 2 Son of Chuck or Creatures 2. games like that. If you're an action game fan, these old platforms hold lots of value.
These formats are worth exploring today. They just take a little more work to get into. Not much, just a little. With Amigas, it's practically like a console to begin with. Just pop in the disc and turn the thing on. No commands to type to load the game or anything.[/QUOTE]
Zool 2's okay, but it's really dumb that it doesn't have saving. Also, it's maybe even stupider that on the PC and Amiga you have to have either sound effects or music, and can't have both; only the Atari Jaguar version has both, though it STILL doesn't let you save your progress. Argh. Otherwise it's a decent game though. I bought the PC version sometime in the mid '90s, and apart for those two issues I enjoyed it.
On a somewhat related note that I can't help but think about, here's my thread from a few years ago about how sad it is that what PC gaming used to be died: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=390128
And yes, I stand by most of it. Since then the growth of digital-download services has continued, and that's great, and even better is Kickstarter which has led to more significant PC-focused games than we'd seen in a long time, but still almost all big-budget titles are designed for consoles, for financial reasons surely. Regardless of the reasons, it's sad that the days when games like TIE Fighter or Grim Fandango got big budgets is now long-gone. Today's smaller-budget PC games are far better than the almost nothing we had for the better part of a decade before that on the platform, though. But losing retail shelf space and larger-budget titles proved to be lasting issues. Today PC gaming isn't really "dead" anymore, but its second life isn't anywhere near as successful, in terms of exclusives and games designed for the platform, as its first was.
But of course, things change. In the future retail won't be as important as it has been, and smartphone/tablet gaming has surely taken a big chunk out of casual PC gaming as well. The budget and exclusives issues are still significant, though, and the problems of trying to find better ways of helping people actually find games when there aren't physical stores to go to that carry a relevant number of PC games and supporting the good PC exclusives which do get made are important. I'm definitely not expecting a TIE Fighter 2 with a major console-game budget anytime in the forseeable future, though, unfortunately.
Hey, hey. Skunny Kart is kind of mediocre, but Jazz Jackrabbit is good, Hugo's Nitemare 3D and Sango Fighters decent, and Raptor fantastic... there were indeed lots of discs like that, but that one actually chose some good games for the cover pictures!
Skunny Kart actually isn't all THAT bad either, really. It's mostly worth disliking for the scummy backstory behind it... you know, about how ... suspiciously similar ... its engine is to Wacky Wheels, and the story that they actually basically stole it or something and used it in Skunny Kart. CopySoft indeed...
He has an amazing collection, and I watch the videos, but as a huge Blizzard RTS fan from about '95 until the mid '00s, I can't say I agree with his tastes in games a lot... and I've never cared for the Sims games one bit either, while he's a big fan. SimCity, yes (mostly the original and the incomparable classic SC2k, which is the best "Sim" game ever). The Sims, no.
I think a lot of people feel this way, yes. And it is a reasonable, and surely at least somewhat accurate, idea; people surely do think more highly of the kinds of games they grew up playing.
However, I don't think the Atari thing is just because of that. I mean, yeah, most people who like those games the most are ones who grew up with them, but I know some younger people do like the NES and beyond, but many fewer people like second-gen gaming. I've come to enjoy 2nd gen games, even though I did not play them as a kid, but they're just something to play for a few minutes, not more substantive experiences. I think more people would like them if they gave them a chance, honestly... but most don't, either because of the heavy score-attack focus, that many of the games aren't that good, the often basic graphics, or what have you. It's understandable, and it being something they didn't grow up with is surely a part of it, but I don't think it's the only part. The NES redefined console gaming, and for gamers today NES games are more familiar than Atari games in terms of gameplay.
That said, I grew up with PC gaming first of course, and then PC and Game Boy; I only could play console games when visiting a friends' house who had one. And I'm sure this has had a big influence on my gaming tastes. I mean, I love gaming in general and I like games from all generations and platforms, but stuff like saving in platformers, for instance... I'm sure that one of the major reasons why platformers not having saving bothers me so much is that most of the PC platformers I was playing in the early '90s had saving, so I expect it from better games in the genre.
[quote[In summation, without going into detail about my theory - you generally are comfortable playing games in the style of games you grew up playing. Lots of people grew up with a particular style of game that is pervasive today, but was just a sliver of gaming back in the 80's and 90's. That said, that sliver offers much for these modern gamers to explore. For example, if you like platformers like Mario or Sonic, there is a ton of stuff worth playing on these retro machines. Stuff like Jazz Jackrabbit or Great Giana Sisters of Meyhem in Monsterland or Zool 2 or Chuck Rock 2 Son of Chuck or Creatures 2. games like that. If you're an action game fan, these old platforms hold lots of value.
These formats are worth exploring today. They just take a little more work to get into. Not much, just a little. With Amigas, it's practically like a console to begin with. Just pop in the disc and turn the thing on. No commands to type to load the game or anything.[/QUOTE]
Zool 2's okay, but it's really dumb that it doesn't have saving. Also, it's maybe even stupider that on the PC and Amiga you have to have either sound effects or music, and can't have both; only the Atari Jaguar version has both, though it STILL doesn't let you save your progress. Argh. Otherwise it's a decent game though. I bought the PC version sometime in the mid '90s, and apart for those two issues I enjoyed it.
irfaanator
Banned
I also remember when we had a toshiba (or compaq) computer back in the day, it came with CDs with a bunch of games that would only run on that computer. Had Mechwarrior2, a point-click game (don't remember the name), and some other stuff. I remember I kept on trying to install Mechwarrior on another computer but it wouldn't let me
Do any of you guys watch Lazy Game Reviews on Youtube? His videos are amazing when it comes to quality content on oldschool PC hardware and gaming. I don't remember much about PC gaming as a child, and I'm a bit young to have experienced some of this stuff firsthand, so his channel has introduced me to a lot of fascinating stuff and games I never knew about. And he has quite the impressive collection to boot.
I especially like his Oddware series where he covers obsolete and strange peripherals or software.
Also just gonna post his video where he redeems a pizza coupon that was included with a PC game from 1997 because I think it's hilarious.
I especially like his Oddware series where he covers obsolete and strange peripherals or software.
Also just gonna post his video where he redeems a pizza coupon that was included with a PC game from 1997 because I think it's hilarious.
One of my first PC game purchases was a 3 disc set of shareware. That was also the last disc of shareware I ever purchased -- pretty much everything included was pure garbage. I wonder if I still have those discs around (I have lots of others from the pre-Steam days. Hundreds, even.)
My second PC game purchase was Gabriel Knight 2. My PC barely met the minimum requirements to even play it. I still haven't beaten it to this day (but I remember being impressed by the 'realistic' graphics).
My second PC game purchase was Gabriel Knight 2. My PC barely met the minimum requirements to even play it. I still haven't beaten it to this day (but I remember being impressed by the 'realistic' graphics).
Before Steam and torrents almost all gameshops in my city were selling only pirated PC games from Russia. There were cheap, but packaging was very simple: jewelcase with CD and front and back cover.
Sometimes one CD contained 2-6 different games and they were not complete because of CD space limitation. Usually all cutscenes were removed and sometimes music too.
Sometimes one CD contained 2-6 different games and they were not complete because of CD space limitation. Usually all cutscenes were removed and sometimes music too.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
BBS door games were the best. They really served as a precursor to MMOs in that they had big, persistent worlds and that multiple people could play at the same time.
Trade Wars 2002 and The Legend of the Red Dragon are probably the two biggest ones that people of the era remember.
You can still play these games, because they have been ported to the web/telnet. I dabbled for a while, but without the close community of a BBS, it loses a bit of its luster. These games would be perfect for the GAF community though, at least as a way to just get people together to play a relatively low impact social game.
MrCunningham
Member
Asked before but asking again. I've had this booklet since forever; does anyone know what game it's for?
All I can really tell you is "reproduction interdite" is french for "reproduction prohibited" (though you might already know that), which makes me think that this came from a french instruction manual... or at least some sort of game with a french theme? Who knows.
KillerKlown
Banned
There is no question that AS(After Steam) everything has been looking great again for pc but the days before steam was in my opinion the heyday of pc gaming for sure. The only thing that sucked about pre-steam was that i always had to travel to some distant store to get my pc games. At first i would go to Egghead Software for my games and accessories and it was at this store that i found The Neverhood, one of the most underrated games ever. I really wish GOG would secure the rights to it.
Then when Egghead closed it's doors the only game store that reliably stocked pc games was Electronics Boutique or EBgames but i had to literally walk two miles because i was to poor for a car and no public bus went there at the time. Good times walking two miles to pick up Half-Life and many other games.
And QQ at the untimely death of Star Trek: Secret of Vulcan Fury. I was enamored with the trailers they had on game disks for it. Anyone by chance remember Contaminated.net before it was PlanetHalfLife? The forums at the time was like the wild west, anything and everything happened there before Half Life released.
Then when Egghead closed it's doors the only game store that reliably stocked pc games was Electronics Boutique or EBgames but i had to literally walk two miles because i was to poor for a car and no public bus went there at the time. Good times walking two miles to pick up Half-Life and many other games.
And QQ at the untimely death of Star Trek: Secret of Vulcan Fury. I was enamored with the trailers they had on game disks for it. Anyone by chance remember Contaminated.net before it was PlanetHalfLife? The forums at the time was like the wild west, anything and everything happened there before Half Life released.
The best thing of pre-Steam PC gaming were the manuals. Good lord were they creative with manuals. And often times the manuals were written with a sense of humor.
LucasArts had the wittiest writers in the industry back then.
I wouldn't be surprised if Tim Schaefer wrote that ad; his blog posts are written in the same style.
games sometimes had unorthodox and really cool magazine ads back in the 80s/90s.
LucasArts had the wittiest writers in the industry back then.
I wouldn't be surprised if Tim Schaefer wrote that ad; his blog posts are written in the same style.
Theognosis
Member
I liked it more in 90s than now. It actually owned the games back then, the boxes were so much more awesome too.
I mean...look at this beauty:
THey don't make them like this anymore
Still, today is a great time to be a pc gamer. Maybe not 90s-like level of great, but still wesome. Steam, for all it's DRM, helped a lot to restore pc gaming after the dark ages of 2001-2004. It's not the only thing that did, but it played a huge part and loosing some of the old stuff was a worthy trade off
Man, I love that game. And I still do!
Theognosis
Member
There's this indie game in 1986 called Round 42. Yes, it's indie!
http://blip.tv/adg/episode-42-round-42-5044222
http://blip.tv/adg/episode-42-round-42-5044222
Fattony12000
Member
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
Pre-Steam PC gaming is not as terrible as some posters here are portraying. I want to highlight an overlooked period in the mid 98s to mid 2000's where games were intuitive and user friendly while being great, unique and innovative. We were just transitioning from MS-DOS to Windows 98/2000/XP. Another aspect that's overlooked about pre-Steam era PC gaming is that pretty much every game on PC released at the time was a PC exclusive meaning game would take full advantage of the PC's capabilities. This is something that's severely lacking today. I know when I play a shooter if it was made with a console in mind because the limited weapon selection mechanic and the streamlined controls. Compare Crysis 1 (probably one of the last big name PC games of the pre-Steam era) to Crysis 2 and 3 and it's extremely evident.
Seriously, this was an era where a game's modability was a bullet point on the box. Unreal Tournament 2004's Special Edition came with a DVD full of tutorials on teaching people the basics of level design. That does not happen today because we've gone multiplatform (Bethesda are the exception to the rule). Even games that would greatly benefit from custom maps and mods like X-Com have taken out these features. It should not come as a surprise that many of the games from this period were supported for years - sometimes over a decade after their release, whether through the developers or the community.
I'm very glad that Bethesda - even though I'm not a huge fan of their games, continues to released mod tools with their games. It's not hard to see why people are still making mods and community patches for Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim.
Now, how many PC games being released today are going to be supported for 5+ years? Aside from Valve's stuff, not many. I like the current environment for PC gaming but we traded quite a bit and had to make some major compromises for it and I still miss some of those amazing communities from back in the day.
Seriously, this was an era where a game's modability was a bullet point on the box. Unreal Tournament 2004's Special Edition came with a DVD full of tutorials on teaching people the basics of level design. That does not happen today because we've gone multiplatform (Bethesda are the exception to the rule). Even games that would greatly benefit from custom maps and mods like X-Com have taken out these features. It should not come as a surprise that many of the games from this period were supported for years - sometimes over a decade after their release, whether through the developers or the community.
- Diablo, Starcraft, Warcraft 3
- Counter-Strike, Quake, Unreal Tournament 2004, Tribes, Battlefield 1942 and Battlefield 2
- Even single player games - Deus Ex had a total conversion mod released as late as 2009. System Shock 2 still has people making graphical tweaks for it.
- Obscure games: Tron 2.0 still has a (barely) active community of mods.
- Falcon 4.0 - Still has a very activity community.
I'm very glad that Bethesda - even though I'm not a huge fan of their games, continues to released mod tools with their games. It's not hard to see why people are still making mods and community patches for Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim.
Now, how many PC games being released today are going to be supported for 5+ years? Aside from Valve's stuff, not many. I like the current environment for PC gaming but we traded quite a bit and had to make some major compromises for it and I still miss some of those amazing communities from back in the day.
Gipsy Danger
Member
I played so much Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds on Zone.com. Absolutely loved the custom maps for that game, especially Hero Fest. Good times.
I agree. Uninstalling games to free up space for other games, then when you came to reinstall you had to poke around sites like Blue's News or Gamespot or whatever for the patch downloads, and if it'd been out for a few years there'd be several of them which often had to be installed in a particular order.
Then there were multi-disc games like Baldur's Gate. Good grief, those things were the bane of my life, it came in a card sleeve thing that seemed designed to deliberately scratch the disc. I had to send 3 of 5 discs back to get replaced.
MrCunningham
Member
Oh man, I think just about everyone I knew with a PC back in the day had this installed on it.
I also had some fond memories with this game here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFqmzVhsgcU&feature=player_detailpage#t=55
basic_text
Member
I've mentioned it in threads before but the copy protection to Operation Stealth was the bane of my childhood!
I primarily grew up with an Amiga but at some point my uncle got a 486 and I got introduced thay way until we finally got a Packard Bell p75 with 8mb ram and 100mb hard drive. It even came with that horrible Packard Bell Navigator software!
I primarily grew up with an Amiga but at some point my uncle got a 486 and I got introduced thay way until we finally got a Packard Bell p75 with 8mb ram and 100mb hard drive. It even came with that horrible Packard Bell Navigator software!
grandwizard
Member
I always get nostalgic for the classical era of PC gaming when watching Matt Chat videos and seeing his huge wall shelves of old school PC game boxes.
Brerlappin
Member
Heat.net was my very first online gaming experience. Quake 1 on a 56kbps modem lol
I miss those big box PC games, but that's al li miss from those times. Downloading patches from gamershell.com or having to get nocd cracks for your legit bought games but you just didn't want to have to run them with the CD in the drive...ugh.
Bl@de
Member
Oh man, I think just about everyone I knew with a PC back in the day had this installed on it.
I also had some fond memories with this game here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFqmzVhsgcU&feature=player_detailpage#t=55
A liitle bit newer than the great Indy/NASCAR games of Papyrus ... but the king of all racing sims. I even bought a wheel (a very cheap one) only for this. It was the ultimate feeling of being MATURE when you're 8:
petran79
Banned
Yeah, those computer games didnt have the marketing trends of nintendo or even sega. No pc (politically correct) on pc back then.
Decapitations in barbarian, bombs in rick dangerous, horrorsoft games, platformers like mike the magic dragon with cool sfx and unlicensed music from miami vice, north and south etc It was difficult holding on to the nes!
Only game that would fit to that would be clock tower for the snes,but it was japan only.
VR is something i'd be interested in and i'd have bought oculus rift as well.
Unfortunately ever since birth i can only see through one eye, so all of this doesnt make any difference to me.
Fallout-NL
Member
I have all the original packing and manuals for all the Fallouts and infinity Engine games. I always liked the binder manuals.
This was the gold standard. Mine are in better shape than this one.
Yuuuuup, that Fallout manual was fucking incredible.
Asked before but asking again. I've had this booklet since forever; does anyone know what game it's for?
Perhaps Goblins 3.
in the mid-90s I was on tech support for a games company making PC games. Megarace 2 was the low point of my life. Trying to get normal people that didn't give a shit about autoexec.bat and config.sys to turn almost literally everything off just to get enough main memory to run the damn thing. Completely fried my brain.
Fallout-NL
Member
Yeah, to echo what some of the others are saying here: pre-steam pc gaming taught me - a lot - of useful skills. The sheer amount of troubleshooting I've done through the 90s, my god.
And English. All of my English pretty much started with typing 'open door' in Leisure Suit Larry 1 or 2.
Hell yes, those and all the other shareware collection disks (some shadier than others). Such a fun time. The garbage I've played ... and the gems whose names I've long forgotten.
And English. All of my English pretty much started with typing 'open door' in Leisure Suit Larry 1 or 2.
Hell yes, those and all the other shareware collection disks (some shadier than others). Such a fun time. The garbage I've played ... and the gems whose names I've long forgotten.
The fun part about these days was not playing the game, but was getting the game to run.
And the bugs men the bug oh god.
I stll remember this game
A2 racer:
Now my PC wasn't fast, so it lagged a lot but i still could play the game. The only issue was that the time would move forwards normally ( you had to to drive into objects to get more time, if you didn't reach that object fast enough times up and the game ended ). But as my computer was playing the game in slow motion, the movement lagged behind the time. Which pretty much made the game impossible to complete, the hours i spend on maximizing my route to hit that god dam object, but never did haha.
Also a game i really loved was ONI.
And the bugs men the bug oh god.
I stll remember this game
A2 racer:
Now my PC wasn't fast, so it lagged a lot but i still could play the game. The only issue was that the time would move forwards normally ( you had to to drive into objects to get more time, if you didn't reach that object fast enough times up and the game ended ). But as my computer was playing the game in slow motion, the movement lagged behind the time. Which pretty much made the game impossible to complete, the hours i spend on maximizing my route to hit that god dam object, but never did haha.
Also a game i really loved was ONI.
Fallout-NL
Member
Indeed. And for much of the nineties without google's help.
Gangxxter
Member
Definitely a Coktel Vision title, they used color lookup tables just like that in many of their games.
Asked before but asking again. I've had this booklet since forever; does anyone know what game it's for?
onken
Member
You are 85th in line, click here to upgrade to Fileplanet Pro.
Mugatu
Member
My pre-steam PC gaming experience involved fiddling with things like this
Just to launch the game. I don't miss it.
Oh wow, that brings back some memories.
Yep. And to think people today complain about Ubisoft's copy protection being a pain in the ass!
onken
Member
derExperte
Member
If you didn't know, Mouth is now available on Steam.
I vaguely remember some super early days of PC gaming with one of those monitors with the green text over the black screen, and trying to play Oregon Trail, among others, through DOS, and all of the prompts I had to go through. It always felt like a small victory when the game actually booted up. I also recall plenty of sound card issues/errors and of course the physical DRM already mentioned.
Fast forwarding a bit I remember getting Quake when we got a new family PC in the mid 90s. Mind was blown.
The rest of my PC gaming experiences mostly involved late 90's Bioware, Blizzard, and FFXI a bit later. Totally ignored from '05 -'10 then built a PC, discovered the greatness of Steam, and here we are.
Really amazing how far PC gaming has come from booting up those ancient DOS games on floppy disks.
Fast forwarding a bit I remember getting Quake when we got a new family PC in the mid 90s. Mind was blown.
The rest of my PC gaming experiences mostly involved late 90's Bioware, Blizzard, and FFXI a bit later. Totally ignored from '05 -'10 then built a PC, discovered the greatness of Steam, and here we are.
Really amazing how far PC gaming has come from booting up those ancient DOS games on floppy disks.
My favorite relic of early PC gaming is definitely computer shows. Wandering a booth-ified college gymnasium twice a year, marveling at all the cutting edge tech ripped from the pages of Computer Shopper magazine, picking up the latest game shareware and productivity software on floppy discs in ziploc bags. Would always come home from those with at least a few gems, if not actual good games - Scorched Earth, Christmas Lemmings, Quarantine and Virtual Pool are a few that come to mind. Was always an eye opening experience as a kid whenever the computer show came to town.