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[BGBW]

I can imagine the fighting that would happen with only the Gamepad is considered....1st? Am I right in assuming that it has to be 1st? The few games we played on the Wii U was co op so it wasnt too much of a problem. The competitive games...I can see it being an issue..

In Smash and Mario Kart whoever selects the multiplayer option first is player one.

Of course you then have games like NSMBU and Nintendoland where the GamePad player can have a different role completely. But in the came of say Nintendoland it encourages giving everyone a chance on the GamePad.

 

[Inuhanyou]

In my personal opinion, they lost their 'edge' after gamecube.

What i hate the most is the lack is of a unified control scheme. You have the pro controller, the wii motes, the classic controllers, the tablet...

Just pick one of those for NX and keep that the one you need to play all the games

 

[jroc74]

The worst thing this generation is that every stupid argument seems to be justified if you slap a "lol Wii U sales" onto it.

The same argument was obviously taboo last gen.

I wouldnt be surprised if the PS3 also went thru this early last gen. Maybe the Wii U will bounce back like the PS3 did.

 

[Seanspeed]

Ever since their first console, Nintendo made sure that they had direct and simple to grasp input methods.

I don't know man. The N64 controller was a pretty revolutionary scheme, and it was not immediately intuitive in my experience. Took some getting used to.

 

[PuppetSlave]

Yeah having options is truly horrible. I love the gamepad but in some games I use the pro controller. I don't see the big deal

 

[The Boat]

Like I said, I like both controller for what they are, but they are missing things, that made their previous controllers great and are not utilized in the best way when it comes to software - both from a gameplay perspective (imo - that's debatable) and from a technical perspective (see lag, octagon, incompatibility).



Maybe it controls fine most of the time in the Single Player, but even then I would argue that I often died due to the 8-way controls not being compatible with the Level-design.

Software implementation is a completely different can of worms. However, and I said this numerous times, SM3DW isn't 8-way. It has much more levels of sensitivity than that to the point where I doubt anyone can notice it's not fully analog without meotculously experimenting with it. I also have a hard time understanding how the level design isn't compatible with the controls in any way or how you could possibly have died due to that.

Dropping the gates was just them caving to popular demand and standards set by others, personally I miss it, but I can't say I was ever playing a game and thinking "this would control better with octagon gates."

Lag has absolutely nothing to do with the controllers, the problem is the emulator, otherwise you'd see lag on every other game.

Also, digital triggers are better than analog 99% of the times, although I would have made them analog for better versitability.

 

[Sushigod7]

I think the gamepad is fine no issues here. I don't even own a pro controller but do have my old Wii remotes etc.

 

[BGBW]

In my personal opinion, they lost their 'edge' after gamecube.

What i hate the most is the lack is of a unified control scheme. You have the pro controller, the wii motes, the classic controllers, the tablet...

Just pick one of those for NX and keep that the one you need to play all the games

It's not a tablet, it's a controller with a screen...

Also technically there are two options, GamePad and Wiimote (plus nunchuck). The rest are just preference options, i.e the Pro Controller doesn't add anything but you may prefer the form factor. Out of the games I have only Nintendoland really requires the Wiimore and nunchuck to play everything. Every other game can be played with just owning a GamePad.

 

[CrazyMoonTalk]

What i hate the most is the lack is of a unified control scheme. You have the pro controller, the wii motes, the classic controllers, the tablet...

This is the real problem. It's unacceptable that they can't code in support into the OS for a universal control system.

In all practicality you only need the Wiimote and gamepad. The old Wii pro controllers, the gamecube controller, and the new pro controller serve 0 purpose.

And they can stick around, that's fine. Just make it so I can pick one and use it for everything.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I also don't think the game pad is bad. The only games I don't use it for are Smash and MK8, and if the Pro controller didn't exist I think playing MK8 would be fine on the game pad.

 

[oni-link]

I don't know man. The N64 controller was a pretty revolutionary scheme, and it was not immediately intuitive in my experience. Took some getting used to.

Well I'd imagine going from D-pad to analogue stick and going from mainly 2D to mainly 3D games would be something you'd need to adjust to anyway, I don't think you can say the N64 controller was solely responsible for that adjustment period

 

[purdobol]

And while I'm thankful there's some form of bc on Wii U, I feel it's poorly done. I don't even bother using it because I have to switch to a "Wii mode", which then requires me to fetch a Wiimote to activate and navigate. The Gamepad is useless at this point, even for games that utilize the Classic Controller.

This is done that way on purpose. When you go to "Wii mode" everything Wii U related shut downs to prevent hackers easy access to Wii U hardware through Wii homebrew. It's annoying yes but I'd rather have that then plague of pirated games on the system and dev not getting payed for their hard work.

 

[PooBone]

I just want to say for the record that the Wii U gamepad is a HUGE step up from the Wii remote and all that bullshit waggle nonsense. So glad that fad is over.

 

[Birgitte2004]

Children are by and large taking to tablets like flies to honey. It's the topic of many threads here on GAF. If kids are so enthusiastic about their iPads and Samsung Tablets, I'm sure the Wii U controller won't present much of a problem.

iPads and Samsung tablets don't have shoulder buttons or joysticks.

Completely irrelevant comparison.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

I think the gamepad is the best controller they've ever made. The Wii remote has obvious issues. The gamecube controller lacked secondary shoulder buttons other than that really shitty z button, and the sticks didn't click. Plus the right stick was just godawful in general. The N64 controller was just weird and any positives the controller had were cancelled out by the weirdness. Wii U gamepad is very comfortable to use, has all the inputs you need and even more due to the touchscreen. The benefit of off tv play also gives it big bonus points. Believe me, I was as skeptical as anyone else about the gamepad before I tried it. But I have no doubts that it's the best controller they've ever made, and I find it sad that it's likely they'll ditch it with their next system.

 

[Baron_Calamity]

I don't think they have. This is my opinion, take it with salt but I'm 90% sure this is the problem with the WiiU.

The skyrocketing costs of development combined with the system launching in the middle of the recession.

Nintendo is still Nintendo. They are doing and operating the same was Nintendo always has. They have their edge, their games are still great, but the environment changed and was super hostile.

Its highsight now but the 3Ds and the WiiU were both launched at the worst possible time. There was no way either system was going to get the numbers they needed due to consumers just not having the money. In turn, game development has gotten so expensive, that developers couldn't afford to really port their games to a low selling platform, let alone create games that were original and took advantage of the platform. The 3Ds kinda turned around just because there was no other system that really filled that void in market but it isn't going to be the next DS.

As Captain Picard once said: "Sometimes, you can make no mistakes, do everything right, and still lose."

 

[CrazyMoonTalk]

iPads and Samsung tablets don't have shoulder buttons or joysticks.

Completely irrelevant comparison.

They do have virtual buttons for the more complex games.

Usually situated on opposite sides of the screen.

 

[Mupod]

The gamepad is cool, but outside of Nintendoland it hasn't been used all that well. But Nintendoland proves it's not impossible, at least.

At any rate the Pro Controller exists and that's the best controller this generation. Being able to use wiimotes and in some cases even gamecube controllers is nice too, but I mean I don't even own a wiimote. Thinking about trying to find a cheap one for pikmin 3.

 

[Silent Chief]

It's clear from the latest cover that Nintendo has lost control of Edge this generation.

 

[DarkCronos]

I don't think they lost their edge on controls. In fact i think the Wii U GamePad is genuinely great.
Their failure is their inability to comunicate the greatness of the GamePad to the massess

 

[Extra Sauce]

The D-pad and face buttons position on the Wii U Pro controller is where they truly fucked up IMO.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

I wouldnt be surprised if the PS3 also went thru this early last gen. Maybe the Wii U will bounce back like the PS3 did.

Not a chance. But we don't need another thread on why that particular boat has long since sailed.

The D-pad and face buttons position on the Wii U Pro controller is where they truly fucked up IMO.

Have you tried using one?
Besides that, I'll just quote myself from the last time this came up.

The upper position on either side is, in my opinion, where the most primary use of that hand for gaming should be. For your left hand, this means the analogue stick you generally use to control movement.
For your right, that normally means the buttons. At least, for nintendo games. Admittedly there are some genres like FPS where you do constantly want to be adjusting the camera, and so the primary position being given to the camera stick makes some sense, but those games are in short supply on wii u.

 

[deleted]

If you are experiencing this problem it isn't because of hardware.

In a weird way, it is because of the hardware though.

Nintendo made it a priority to support the wiimotes for 3D World. The Wiimotes are limited to 2 buttons + waggle. Since it doesn't have an analog stick, one button was used for running like in Super Mario 64 DS. The other defaults to jumping.

A controller with shoulder buttons and 4 face buttons shouldn't face this problem.

But of course, in the end, Nintendo could have just adjusted controls for each control option, which makes it primarily are software issue and catering to the fact, that Nintendo doesn't make use of their controller options appropriately in some cases.

 

[Kama_1082]

My sentiments. I hope the heads of their marketing / PR departments got fucking fired.

I hope one day a stranger asks and hopes you get fired when you mess up at work.

 

[GabeTheGrouch76]

I think one thing is clear...Nintendo had no idea how to get their message across with the Wii U...I thought it was only MS and the XBO that did that this gen.....

At least when they engaged in damage control mode over the whole DRM fiasco hehehe.

To be on topic, I can't speak on the Wii U's behalf as I don't have one, but I kinda have to agree that having the GamePad as the primary controller for the Wii U was a misfire--and I speak as someone who --from trying it at booths-- actually likes the GamePad quite a bit. Reading how the GamePad alone drove up costs for a Wii U console by an additional $100-$150 really makes it sound like a hindrance more than a benefit.

I think the GamePad should had been handled as akin to the Kinect for Xbox One (post DRM)-available by itself or as a special bundle with the Wii U; whereas standard Wii U bundles would come with the Pro Controller as the standard controller and with the $200-$250 price point I assume it would had been released with.

...not that it would had drastically helped the console's image or third-party support anyway. You still have the terrible name for the console and the weaker hardware it has in contrast to PS4 and Xbone.

 

[Davey Cakes]

I think all the control options have only made Nintendo BETTER, not worse in this regard.

 

[ShamePain]

They were always rubbish. GC pad is absolute rubbish compared to ps2, xbox or even dreamcast. Terrible sticks, buttons, plastic and triggers. WiiMote is kinda crap for non-motion controlled games, Wii U pad is rubbish again. N64 pad was not made for humans obviously, they probably snatched it off a crashed ufo or smth.

 

[baconcow]

Looks at Wii U Pro Controller. Nope, definitely their best controller yet. The Gamepad is mediocre, though, but far better than the Wii Remote.

 

[JordanKZ]

I have two problems with this generation's Nintendo controllers.

1. A lack of analog triggers.
2. The sheer 'weight' and thus comfort of the Wii U gamepad in comparison to 'normal' controllers.

The latter point is a huge deal breaker for me. I cannot use the gamepad for long periods of time because I basically am I a grown man with tiny bitch hands. It's the same reason I can't deal with smartphones with huge screens (bigger than 5.5" for example). I stick to the Wii U Pro Controller for all games, regardless of the 'advantages' the gamepad can bring to games.

Aside from the lack of analog triggers, the Wii U Pro controller is basically my favourite controller in existence. The battery life is fucking ridiculous in comparison to anything else, its super comfortable, has great button layout and everything feels simply fantastic. Nintendo's more traditional controllers have continued to be iterated on each generation and continue to be better and better.

 

[CrazyMoonTalk]

To be on topic, I can't speak on the Wii U's behalf as I don't have one, but I kinda have to agree that having the GamePad as the primary controller for the Wii U was a misfire--and I speak as someone who --from trying it at booths-- actually likes the GamePad quite a bit. Reading how the GamePad alone drove up costs for a Wii U console by an additional $100-$150 really makes it sound like a hindrance more than a benefit.

But this is a fallacious argument. the assumption that the Wii U would have been cheaper without the gamepad has no basis. If they hadn't chose a tablet controller it would have been something else.

Nintendo has made it clear they aren't interested in a graphics race with Sony and Microsoft, and history through design and policy shows they favor persuing new innovation. If it wasn't a tablet controller it would have been something else that may or may not have worked.

 

[Davey Cakes]

They were always rubbish. GC pad is absolute rubbish compared to ps2, xbox or even dreamcast. Terrible sticks, buttons, plastic and triggers. WiiMote is kinda crap for non-motion controlled games, Wii U pad is rubbish again. N64 pad was not made for humans obviously, they probably snatched it off a crashed ufo or smth.

How anyone prefers the PS2 controller over ANYTHING is beyond me.

Sony's controllers have never been comfortable.

X makes a second controller mandatory for many multiplayer games.
Doesn't include one in the box.

Replace X with pretty much any game console.

Yeah and in Nintendo's case, if you're one of millions of Wii owners you likely already have the extra hardware. No forced re-buying and having to store away old controllers with old consoles. And if you do require more controllers, options are plentiful and often you don't have to pay $50 each time.

It astounds me that people actually try to paint this in a bad light.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Makes Wiimote mandatory for many multiplayer games.

Doesn't initially include one in the box.

X makes a second controller mandatory for many multiplayer games.
Doesn't include one in the box.

Replace X with pretty much any game console.

 

[deleted]

I don't know man. The N64 controller was a pretty revolutionary scheme, and it was not immediately intuitive in my experience. Took some getting used to.

Mh, maybe you are right with that. Its design was pretty out there until you used it.
If it was your first contact with videogames, it was maybe even intimidating.

Software implementation is a completely different can of worms. However, and I said this numerous times, SM3DW isn't 8-way. It has much more levels of sensitivity than that to the point where I doubt anyone can notice it's not fully analog without meotculously experimenting with it. I also have a hard time understanding how the level design isn't compatible with the controls in any way or how you could possibly have died due to that.

Dropping the gates was just them caving to popular demand and standards set by others, personally I miss it, but I can't say I was ever playing a game and thinking "this would control better with octagon gates."

Lag has absolutely nothing to do with the controllers, the problem is the emulator, otherwise you'd see lag on every other game.

Also, digital triggers are better than analog 99% of the times, although I would have made them analog for better versitability.

It isn't 8 way? The controls snap in one of the 8 directions if you move, right?
Because of that, I often couldn't get from point a to point b the way I wanted in the later levels, or if I wanted to throw something I often missed, because the controls didn't let me aim precisely.
I can't find the name of the level that's on my mind, since I'm at work. It was one of the later levels in the Toad World..

And regarding the lag - I think that is even worse. Why can't they get it right for VC?

Maybe I didn't explain it properly or worded it poorly in the OP, but to me controls are defined by the hardware and the software working together.
Nintendo was always really good at both sides, but somehow they managed to get many little things wrong this time that become noticeable and dampen the experience for me.
Maybe they spread themselves too thin with too many controller options. They can't develop perfect control options for every controller they support.

 

[FollowTheWind]

Loved the gamepad, just don't understand why it was compulsory to use to update and access settings etc...

That was so stupid.

 

[BGBW]

They were always rubbish. GC pad is absolute rubbish compared to ps2, xbox or even dreamcast. Terrible sticks, buttons, plastic and triggers. WiiMote is kinda crap for non-motion controlled games, Wii U pad is rubbish again. N64 pad was not made for humans obviously, they probably snatched it off a crashed ufo or smth.

Let me guess, you held the left hand prong of the N64 controller while trying to use the analogue stick.

 

[M°°nblade]

Nintendo understood that local multiplayer is most fun during communication and interaction with the people in the room, and so they devised gameplay modes that encourage this.

Unfortunately the market seems to disagree with you and Nintendo about what's 'most fun' in local multiplayer since nobody is buying the Wii U for that extremely limited use.
Nintendo devising (or rather limiting the Wii U to) gameplay modes that encourage assymetric gameplay sounds more like a workaround because they couldn't get around the technical or financial issues to allow multiple synced Wiipads.

There are currently no games where 2 - 4 people having a gamepad would change anything. And games not designed to assign different roles to each participant do not receive an inherent benefit from giving everyone a 2nd screen.

The inherent benefit of being able to sync multiple Wiipads where each player has his own screen, is that it allows far more creativity and possibilities than the Wii U can currently offer. This doesn't necessarily imply same roles.
You may think it doesn't change much but I can think of multiple competitive games or game mods where having 4 people synced with their own Wiipad would deliver awesome local multiplayer experiences.

In fact, playing cards which go back to the 9th century, are one the oldest and still most popular forms that allow various local multiplayer games, from poker to magic the gathering, are based on every player having his own, unique information.
It blows my mind that Nintendo, originally a cards company, didn't figure this out.

This is a crazy thread. "I hate the gamepad" "Why can't I use 4 gamepads"

Lumping different opinions from different people together as if this thread is representing one big, contradictive hivemind is what's crazy.

 

[Dryk]

Controller selection is baffling at times but there's no way I'd want to give up the Wiimote support. Pikmin just isn't the same without it.

EDIT: Also people are always laughing at the N64 controller, but it was way better for D-Pad + 2/4 button games than the Gamecube controller or Wiimote. It's just that hardly any games actually used that configuration.

I personally think they should have done this for Wii U.

• Can have up to 4 Wii Gamepads synced (each with a multi-touch screen)

That would be a win right there. The whole thing looks cheap too. Just needs polishing.

The problem with that is that each Gamepad saturates whatever wireless radio they're using to communicate with the thing. When they were talking about two Gamepad support they said that to get it working they have to drop the Gamepads to 30fps and alternate frames because of that. So at minimum you'd need 3 radios in the thing and to get 60fps running on all the gamepads you'd need 5. Then you need the Wii U to render a 720p and 4 480p images at once and it's already pretty weak.

It sucks but it's kind of understandable why they didn't do it.

 

[deleted]

This is a crazy thread. "I hate the gamepad" "Why can't I use 4 gamepads"

The thread seems to get out of hand a little bit.

It wasn't my intention to discuss Nintendos marketing strategy, nor their sales failures - also not if the Gamepad was a good idea..

This was meant as a critique on the implementation first and to a lesser extent the craftsmanship of Nintendos control options this generation.

 

[LocalE]

Makes Wiimote mandatory for many multiplayer games.

Doesn't initially include one in the box.

Like how Sony makes an additional Dualshock mandatory for local multiplayer but only puts one in the box?
Pretty much every console I've ever bought only came with one controller.
I don't see this as a legit complaint at all.

They don't though. Just look at Super Mario 3D World, which is a downgrade in controls from the galaxy games. And not just in a subjective way, you can deduce that objectively.

No, I don't think you know what that means.
You have decided it, and it may be inferior as concerns your tastes and sensibilities, sure. But it is not objectively worse or inferior. It is different. But it is a different game which has its own requirements and challenges. Not the same.


Anyways, I will say that if the Pro controller had gyros and a headphone out jack, then it would be much closer to 'on par' with the Gamepad. And that could only have been a good thing.
Otherwise, I've been very happy with the controller situation on the U.
Oh, and there should be a way to turn the screen off on the Gamepad while using it on games that only use one screen at a time.

 

[Dryk]

This was meant as a critique on the implementation first and to a lesser extent the craftsmanship of Nintendos control options this generation.

The implementation is indefensibly awful IMO. There's no excuse for the way some of the menus and games have been designed to only be compatible with certain controllers. You can't even use the Gamepad to play normal 4-player NSMB FFS. Sakurai had the right idea with Smash Bros but still managed to botch the implementation since they just remapped the Gamecube controls to new controllers without giving any consideration to a bunch of the buttons moving around.

 

[Heroman]

Gamepad is fantastic , it way better than than piece of garbage know as the n64 controller.

 

[Gunstar Ikari]

The only good controllers that Nintendo has put out are the SNES and Classic controllers. NES is too boxy, N64 is an overly-convoluted piece of crap, GCN is good for platformers and not much else, Wiimote alone and Wiimote+Nunchuk have weird button placement, and the analog sticks on the Wii U gamepad really needed to be lowered.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

The Gamepad is one of the worst standard controllers ever packaged into a console box. Right up there with the Atari Jaguar and such back in the day.

You should see my 6 year old cousin or my 4 year old daughter try and use that thing as a regular controller to play a regular game with. It's pathetic.

Whoever thought that would be a good idea for a regular controller should be fired. Yeah its a cool novelty thing to be able to play your game on the screen or whatever, but I think it would of gone over better if it was a separate peripheral compared to the main controller for the system.

Meh, sure Nintendo will just chalk up the Wii U as a massive mistake and move on soon. Look forward to whatever they do next. Really starting to contemplate if I even will get the Wii U at this point.

Wasn't there a thread recently with a picture of OP's 3 year old son playing Mario Kart 8 and holding the Gamepad very comfortably? Because I sure remember that and it makes this very funny

 

[disap.ed]

In my personal opinion, they lost their 'edge' after gamecube.

What i hate the most is the lack is of a unified control scheme. You have the pro controller, the wii motes, the classic controllers, the tablet...

Just pick one of those for NX and keep that the one you need to play all the games

I really hope they will use the WiiU pro controller (maybe with added gyro and analog triggers EDIT +headset/headphone jack) for their next home console and use the same scheme for their handheld also.

 

[Coinspinner]

The gamepad is my favorite Nintendo controller, perhaps my favorite controller ever.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I'd argue they lost it, at least for core games, with the Wii. If not before. I wasn't a huge fan of the GC controller TBH. The c-stick in place of a regular second analog was terribad.

They did a lot innovating prior to that though, and the Wavebird was awesome to finally get mostly lag free wireless control.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

The Gamepad is an amazingly useful innovation, mainly for offscreen play and inventory, but also for lag free gaming, headphone out and somehow it's a great feeling controller

The Pro Controller is the perfect standard controller

The Wiimote is still amazing for Metroid.

Life is pretty good.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

The Gamepad is great. The Pro Controller is great. The lag when playing VC games with the Pro Controller... not so great.

But this thread was created two gens too late. Both the DualShock 2 and The Duke were better than the GCN controller. The DualShock 3 and the [GOAT] Xbox 360 controller were superior to waggle nonsense for third party games, and definitely better than the Wii's Classic Controller Pro, which is actually kind of atrocious.

 

[Regginmad]

They lost their edge due to an unwillingness to iterate on the controls. Building a control method from scratch each time an creating new issues along with it is far worse than building on an established controller and fixing its weakness.

Nintendo is simply more interested in building a different controller than building a good one.

 

[CrazyMoonTalk]

Unfortunately the market seems to disagree with Nintendo about what's 'most fun' in local multiplayer since nobody is buying the Wii U for that extremely limited use.

This is the primary problem Nintendo has faced in marketing the value of the gamepad. Nintendoland did a very good job of selling the gamepad as a concept, but it was only evident when you actually picked it up and played with a group of friends. It did not make the instant connection that Wii Sports was able to convey in a simple commercial.

But help me understand;

Nintendo devising gameplay modes that encourage assymetric gameplay sounds more like a workaround because they couldn't get around the technical or financial issues to allow multiple synced Wiipads.

So the market doesn't view asymmetric gameplay as a selling point, and it's little more than a workaround.

The inherent benefit of having multiple Wiipads where each player has his own screen, is that it allows far more creativity and possibilities than the Wii U can currently offer. This doesn't necessarily imply same roles.
You may think it doesn't change much but I can think of multiple competitive games or game mods where having 4 people synced with their own Wiipad would deliver awesome local multiplayer experiences.

In fact, playing cards which go back to the 9th century, are one the oldest and still most popular forms that allow various local multiplayer games based on every player having their own information.

But if the Wii U had 4 gamepads, it's biggest benefit would be asymmetric gameplay?