Support NeoGAF

[radios shipping overview]

In addition to my dad, who's pretty far gone into the right wing, I have a friend in her mid twenties who's showing signs of sliding that way. She linked a Milo video on Facebook lately and has been reposting anti-feminist propaganda. It's not my place or responsibility to try to change her ways, but I'm a lot more likely to just minimize contact with her than I would be with family.

 

[Lois_Lane]

My apologies if this is a sensitive topic for you but how could parents kick out a child because of political beliefs? This boggles my mind.

Paren't kick their kids out for being gay. Things like this aren't surprising.

 

[Omegasquash]

The only way they'll probably change that is through a life experience.

And with people staying in bubble communities, the windows of opportunity for that happening are pretty tight, sadly.

Wish I had sound advice for you, OP. Just try to be a force for good.

 

[UncleSporky]

exactly, it stops being that when you are actively against or cant comprehend why people deserve equal treatment etc.

Sure arguing about how govt should be run is an age old thing. But when it comes to human rights there is a right and wrong answer and history has shown regardless of peoples views there is one view point that progresses through slow as fuck, sometimes stumbles but it goes through which is a slow march towards equality for all.

If it's destined to succeed, then why go to the trouble of cutting out a parent or loved one out of your life for their views? They can't harm the cause. They can only be grumpy that it's winning. Force them to be the one to choose to cut you out, and let that reflect on their character. They're the kind of person to abandon friends and loved ones, not you.

 

[Lord Frieza]

And with people staying in bubble communities, the windows of opportunity for that happening are pretty tight, sadly.

Especially in Rural areas, where no one wants to fucking be anymore anyway

 

[Amory]

My dad doesn't know how to use the internet other than how to look up Earth Wind and Fire videos on youtube.

But he likes Trump. I sat and talked with him over a couple beers last weekend and basically said Trump's an idiot and gave him a laundry list of things he's done so far that sucked.

He listened, he nodded, he said "oh...well I didn't know that" a bunch of times.

So I guess I'd suggest just trying to have a conversation with him when you next have an opportunity, in person. Blocking people on facebook helped get us where we are today in the first place. We can't stop debating.

 

[Omegasquash]

Especially in Rural areas, where no one wants to fucking be anymore anyway

Gotta be in that metro/suburban area making at least 6 figures, with blazing fast interwebs, anything you want delivered to your door, and celebrities all around you.

That's what I thought cities were like when I was growing up, anyway.

 

[mackattk]

So I guess I'd suggest just trying to have a conversation with him when you next have an opportunity, in person. Blocking people on facebook helped get us where we are today in the first place. We can't stop debating.

One of the people I work with, older guy, definitely a dad. I talked to him about Trump and was like "it is crazy that just one of Trump's golfing trips for a weekend is costing the taxpayer more money than I will ever make in a lifetime."

He started spewing off about how the clinton foundation wastes more taxpayer dollars than Trump ever will.

 

[Snkfanatic]

I mean, you don't. They're an adult. They've formed an opinion. They are not asking for your help or to be rescued. They have agency. Yes, this stuff is toxic garbage that makes them a miserable person and hurts their relationships, but that's part of what being an adult is -- making choices. It's all well and good to look at this from the perspective that they need to wake up and face facts, but they're probably looking at it from the perspective that you need to do the same. It doesn't matter that you're factually right and they're wrong, because we're interested in human behaviour and the motivations behind it, not winning Cosmic Truth and Rationality Points.

You can try to find some common ground on things you still agree with them about. If that doesn't work, you make it very clear that you are not interested in engaging with them on political issues and you stop the derail when the conversation turns to politics. "I love you, Dad, but my life is stressful enough and I don't want to have arguments or debates about politics." They probably don't want to hear your opinion either.

You set boundaries. If necessary, you unfollow them on Facebook (you should be unfollowing anyone who spams your Facebook with aggressive political opinions, whether you agree or not). If it is prolonged and intense and abusive, you begin ratcheting down your level of contact with them in general.

This isn't just a left-right thing, and it's not just a child-parent thing. There's always a struggle when someone is close to you but is a quack when it comes to one specific thing and just won't drop the issue.

I love this post, I wish more people in my personal life and here would follow this.

 

[Reeks]

I'm in a similar situation. I still talk to my parents every day. Sometimes I feel like I get somewhere and other times not so much.

The key for me is to not engage in any direct conversation about politics or Trump. Period. I keep things vague and at a personal level. For instance, I talked to my mom about a trans friend I have at my University. I told her about all the crazy things my friend has and is having to deal with during her transition. My mom came around after a while. If I had talked about LGBTQA+ in any direct sense, she would have shut down immediately. Keep things on the local level is my best advice.

The other issue I've had is that every once in a while I take the bait and end up in an argument. Once it becomes a political conversation, I have to constantly take the step-down approach for everything. This is really really hard to do and I'm not always successful. I have to take the beating and stay completely calm. If I take offense for a second, it's game over. She'll say I think I'm better and smarter and that I think she's an idiot etc etc etc. This is why I avoid it altogether.

Edit: Also, of my three sisters, I am by far the most calm and understanding of my parents. I really do try very very hard. I don't get hot-headed and I don't think I'm smarter than my parents. They have a lot of wisdom and are genuinely amazing people. It helps me to keep this in mind.

 

[uncelestial]

I mean, you don't. They're an adult. They've formed an opinion. They are not asking for your help or to be rescued. They have agency. Yes, this stuff is toxic garbage that makes them a miserable person and hurts their relationships, but that's part of what being an adult is -- making choices. It's all well and good to look at this from the perspective that they need to wake up and face facts, but they're probably looking at it from the perspective that you need to do the same. It doesn't matter that you're factually right and they're wrong, because we're interested in human behaviour and the motivations behind it, not winning Cosmic Truth and Rationality Points.

You can try to find some common ground on things you still agree with them about. If that doesn't work, you make it very clear that you are not interested in engaging with them on political issues and you stop the derail when the conversation turns to politics. "I love you, Dad, but my life is stressful enough and I don't want to have arguments or debates about politics." They probably don't want to hear your opinion either.

You set boundaries. If necessary, you unfollow them on Facebook (you should be unfollowing anyone who spams your Facebook with aggressive political opinions, whether you agree or not). If it is prolonged and intense and abusive, you begin ratcheting down your level of contact with them in general.

This isn't just a left-right thing, and it's not just a child-parent thing. There's always a struggle when someone is close to you but is a quack when it comes to one specific thing and just won't drop the issue.

Sigh...

This thread hurt enough, but this post, dang. Except in my case it's my mom. She was a 2-time Obama voter, and a Bernie supporter in the primary. Then, I don't know what happened but as soon as Hillary was the nominee, the wave of anti-Hillary stuff swept her up and she's been a Trump supporter ever since.

 

[Acorn]

With holy water and a cross.

If you find the alt right demons real name you can cast it out.

 

[n0razi]

Tell them to get educated if they want the be supported in old age and if they want me attending their funeral

 

[Stumpokapow]

Can truth be aggressive in nature by virtue of its content? Then why is that useful advice?

1960s Facebook: "ugh, this Dr King guy is so annoying with his in-your-face political opinions. Unfollow!"

You'd probably argue that Dr King actually participated in activism offline, but that doesn't mean that people with blunt political opinions online don't do the same.

Part of growing up is learning which fights are worth fighting and which fights are not. You can observe this in how high school students complain constantly about "drama" inflicted on them but do nothing to extract themselves from the situation. Even if you dedicate your life to changing minds, this does not mean you spend all of your time trying to change every mind no matter what.

Someone choosing to involve themselves less in politics, or choosing certain avenues for involvement in politics and not others, or choosing certain people who they think are worth talking about politics with is not a bad thing. It's also not even a "bubble" thing -- it's not the content of the opinions that cause issues, it's the mode of expressing them.

As for the canard example about Dr. King; it is possible that if I was friends with Dr. King, and if Dr. King was spamming my feed with junk and getting into aggressive yelling matches in his comments section, I would have unfollowed him. It's not a trap if I voluntarily walk into it. Today I support BLM, but I don't follow Shaun King.

The same is true of friends who spam pictures of their children, friends who spam college football garbage, friends who spam zero-content buzzfeed LOLZ videos, friends who spam video game garbage, and friends who spam anything. Some of my friends even like Marvel movies, and you can't in good conscience tell me I need to tolerate that. You would have to be a narcissist to imagine that something being important to you entitles you to monopolize or abuse your friend's time or mindspace with the thing.

I work in a para-political job, I spend most of my days talking about and working on political things, I am engaged and read politics broadly. I am missing nothing by voluntarily unfollowing people in my life who want to rehash the same issues day-in day-out in Facebook comments. They are still my friends. Friendship is not an all or nothing ultimatum on tolerating one's most self-centered behaviour.

 

[Not]

Whatever it is, he won't change his mind unless his environment drastically changes. If you can tricking him into moving, changing his circle of friends and forcing him to watch/read/listen things he wouldn't normally consume on a regular basis. And if it's tied to religion/lost loved ones or his very identity as a person, good luck.

EDIT:

Also, the impulse to find meaning and connection in the chaos gets stronger as you approach mortality. The idea that you're about to bite it on a infinitesimal rock full of incompetent sentient carbon mishmosh who can't understand or control their own existence gets less and less easy to deal with.

Be careful as you get older, folks

 

[prag16]

I guess that depends if you think racism, sexism, etc. are debatable as political beliefs. I'm fine if someone has a different fiscal policy than me, but I'm not going to accept or associate with someone that hates minorities just because they're family.

If only it were that simple. It's usually more like a disagreement on what constitutes racism/sexism/etc. Your next example plays right into that. Fiscal policy wouldn't be immune. Many will argue that this or that fiscal policy is inherently racist/sexist while others would disagree.

This is a common problem on gaf; many people here use as a starting point the premise that they're automatically objectively right about whatever they're arguing (not just gaf, the right wingers on facebook do it too obviously).

For example when a conservative argues against raising the minimum wage, and a liberal comes back with "that's objectively and self evidently racist", that discussion basically has run its course.

 

[Ethical Hedonism]

The same is true of friends who spam pictures of their children, friends who spam college football garbage, friends who spam zero-content buzzfeed LOLZ videos, friends who spam video game garbage, and friends who spam anything. Some of my friends even like Marvel movies, and you can't in good conscience tell me I need to tolerate that. You would have to be a narcissist to imagine that something being important to you entitles you to monopolize or abuse your friend's time or mindspace with the thing.

That's the reason I unfollowed literally everyone on my friendlist and now prioritize other social networks (mainly Instagram - less people, more close friends to follow - and Twitter) and "real life" contact.
I guess I'm due to a friendlist cleanup.

 

[PixelatedBookake]

I'm not in this position, but I think an element of it is that they WANT to believe the bullshit. They know its wrong but this is their chance to have people who they agree with one way or another support their hate and prejudice with false facts and misinformation while making up countless excuses for such behavior because they don't want to admit what they believe is wrong because they don't want to change.

 

[Laevateinn]

We are not americans tho.
He does not have cable television on his house, only uses the internet.

Modify his host file so that popular right wing websites point to left wing ones.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I avoid talking about politics with my dad. It just leads to way to many issues between us.

Pisses me off so much since it's ruined our relationship.

This is basically why I do not talk politics with dad.

He's not Pro-Trump, he's just pro-all of Trump's policies.

It got to the point last year in Anaheim where he was saying that I was pro-illegal immigration and he didn't know why.

 

[highrider]

Calmly and logically disagree with them until they die.

Pretty much.

 

[flaxknuckles]

My mother ignores everything Trump says or the policies he's putting forward and says you have to look beyond that and see that Trump is actually exposing corruption and making amazing laws to save the world. Apparently NONE of the media I quoted is trustable and she has researched from the correct places even though she won't ever reveal her sources.

There is no point in debating these people. They don't use logic to come to their conclusions and they don't respect your opinion because they see you as their lesser.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

It's identical to how you would treat a family member that is in a cult, which is pretty much the case.

There's no way to reach anyone caught up in it, you just have to minimize how it affects your relationship.

 

[mcw]

In fighting this same battle with my own father, I've learned a few things that may also be applicable to others:

It's difficult for anyone who has diapered your butt to really, truly respect your opinions on politics, religion, or anything, really.

Anyone who is able to turn political discussion into an "us vs. them" scenario will find favor among those who can't relate to something unless it's like sports.

Cable news preys on the anxieties of the elderly. I remember when I brought my son to his grandma's house. The TV was on Fox News Channel. During a commercial break, several of the commercials featured elderly people being rejected by their grandchildren until they bought X thing.

 

[GungHo]

Calmly and logically disagree with them until they die.

And then wonder why you were so fucking miserable for 20~30 years and then promise yourself to never do that to your own kids and then end up doing that to your own kids as you waste away in your own feces.

 

[HotHamBoy]

It is impossible to change someone's viewpoint on something like this unless they are open to having it changed.

With older people that is extremely unlikely to be the case.

You have to accept it.

 

[Wood Man]

I've told my parents that I will not talk about politics with them even though we may agree on some points.

Pretty sure they think I'm the brainwashed one.

 

[Polioliolio]

It's like a generic disorder or a disease..

But I think he's right, the guy who says the only thing that works is personal experience. If you know a gay guy, maybe gays aren't so bad. If you have a black friend, say, maybe non white people aren't all bad, and if you add enough of this shit together, they might start questioning their overlords and free themselves from racist homophobic bigotry.

 

[Wvrs]

I just don't. My mum has some insane political beliefs, which often intersect with conspiracy theories (NWO type shit), and I've given up trying to logically reason with her now.

 

[toddhunter]

My dad raised "all muslims are terrorists "... at the dinner table, on Christmas day. All he does is get up, watch fox news and then get angry/scared about whatever they say.

All muslims are terrorists
Being gay is wrong
Trump is ok, there is "something wrong" with that Hillary

I can't compete with that brainwashing. I've tried. The only hope is that fox executives realise the damage they are doing to the world.

In the meantime I put on a brave face, try to focus on other things and excuse myself and my kids from the room if he gets started on something awful.

 

[RinsFury]

I can't compete with that brainwashing. I've tried. The only hope is that fox executives realise the damage they are doing to the world.

You would be mistaken in thinking that they have a conscience. The hatred Trump has wrought across the country has been phenomenal for their ratings - the best in their history even.

 

[toddhunter]

You would be mistaken in thinking that they have a conscience. The hatred Trump has wrought across the country has been phenomenal for their ratings - the best in their history even.

I don't believe they have a conscious. The hope is that it somehow becomes more lucrative to hate on right wing talking points, racism and homophobia.

It is just hope.

 

[R0ckman]

if people aren't able to abandon others with toxic views there will never be real progress. Its incredible that some people really feel like they can separate peoples political views and still look at them as some loving person etc.

I cant do it, and I refuse to do it regardless of who it is family or not. Its the same reason today the only people see bad people being steaming at the mouth racists, bigots, etc rather than complex people who can love their kids, love their wives be apart of their community and will have extreme views about people who they dont see as equal worthy etc which still means yes they are bad people despite some expressions of feeling to their own personal group.

This is the largest problem in society today and honestly if you aren't willing to go as far as leaving people behind for their abhorrent views they will never get the message and in the end you will suffer as well for it.

And OP you really cant approach or appeal to someone who is clearly emotionally invested with anything but a strong emotional response in return which goes as far as just severing ties with them. Its like arguing with someone who has strong religious beliefs no amount of logical dialogue can counteract intangible beliefs.

So its up to you to see them as a complicated father who has terrible views against anyone other than his own kin and accept it or be the change you seek and go on with your life with not as much to do with them to help break the chain of poor views.

Maybe they will understand how you feel when you arent around to listen anymore and if those kind of views are worth not having their child around anymore and maybe with that kind of emotional impact they get out of the crazy hole of conspiracy.



This is a prime example of it from the opposite way.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...50061aa9fae_story.html?utm_term=.5b215eb7ffdb

this kid was as toxic as his parents and his family with white supremacist views and many of them disowned him when he gave up those beliefs.

Seems psychologically unhealthy to NOT drop people with toxic behavior regardless of blood. One of my best friends from elemntary school up until about 4 years ago lost his damn mind. Cut him off like a stage sand bag.

Something about family really messes with people. I love my family and will provide them with care but I won't make my judgement partial for their sakes.

 

[Ethical Hedonism]

Modify his host file so that popular right wing websites point to left wing ones.

LMAO I might do that as a prank someday.

 

[Jotaka]

To old to change. Just let go and forget.

 

[RyougaSaotome]

They are still my friends. Friendship is not an all or nothing ultimatum on tolerating one's most self-centered behaviour.

Also real quick: this isn't a direct response to you, Stump. Your post just made me think of some stuff.

Being a very obvious PoC, the sad thing was discovering that friendship can definitely be an all or nothing ultimatum when you realize that they consider you "one of the good ones," and feel perfectly fine spouting their horribly racist/sexist/homophobic bullshit in front of you.

I'll never forget being called a PC SJW because I got mad at some shit they were saying. Sorry, life is too short for me to try and wade through that shit.

It's easy to let it go when that shit isn't directed toward you or specifically people you know, but, well, yeah.

 

[TylerD]

Both of mine are trying to defend scumbag racist Bill O'Reilly now. It's a leftist conspiracy to try to take down the right conservative voices!

 

[The Lamp]

Part of growing up is learning which fights are worth fighting and which fights are not. You can observe this in how high school students complain constantly about "drama" inflicted on them but do nothing to extract themselves from the situation. Even if you dedicate your life to changing minds, this does not mean you spend all of your time trying to change every mind no matter what.

Someone choosing to involve themselves less in politics, or choosing certain avenues for involvement in politics and not others, or choosing certain people who they think are worth talking about politics with is not a bad thing. It's also not even a "bubble" thing -- it's not the content of the opinions that cause issues, it's the mode of expressing them.

As for the canard example about Dr. King; it is possible that if I was friends with Dr. King, and if Dr. King was spamming my feed with junk and getting into aggressive yelling matches in his comments section, I would have unfollowed him. It's not a trap if I voluntarily walk into it. Today I support BLM, but I don't follow Shaun King.

The same is true of friends who spam pictures of their children, friends who spam college football garbage, friends who spam zero-content buzzfeed LOLZ videos, friends who spam video game garbage, and friends who spam anything. Some of my friends even like Marvel movies, and you can't in good conscience tell me I need to tolerate that. You would have to be a narcissist to imagine that something being important to you entitles you to monopolize or abuse your friend's time or mindspace with the thing.

I work in a para-political job, I spend most of my days talking about and working on political things, I am engaged and read politics broadly. I am missing nothing by voluntarily unfollowing people in my life who want to rehash the same issues day-in day-out in Facebook comments. They are still my friends. Friendship is not an all or nothing ultimatum on tolerating one's most self-centered behaviour.

What do you even use Facebook's News Feed feature or care about it if you don't want to see anyone's content? "Aggressive"/"spam" seems like almost anything could fit that definition to you, so personally I just don't think your advice is particularly useful. And sharing political opinions on Facebook is not an inherently self-centered behavior. Sometimes it's to learn or share relevant information or to collaborate or just have engrossing conversation.

 

[True Underdog]

That is the absolute worst thing you could do.

I agree that giving someone an ultimatum is awful but I've all but stopped talking to my dad for similar reasons.

It's not "just politics" when human rights are involved and one side of the political aisle seems determined to take rights from others.

I dealt with a lot of racially charged bullying growing up and got into plenty of fights over it, too. If my old man wants to hitch his wagon to that crowd and try to be "one of the good ones," that's fine but I don't have to make him part of my life either.

-shrug-

Edit: FWIW, I tried to have several conversations with him about this stuff but anything anti-Trump is quickly labeled "fake news" and "I don't trust anything the liberals say" - so hey, I did my due diligence. I don't need that kind of negativity in my life.

 

[drtomoe123]

What's going on in your dad's life right now? You mentioned that the fiancee agrees that he should stop spending so much time on FB and more time on the business? What kind of work does he do?

 

[Cipherr]

I guess that depends if you think racism, sexism, etc. are debatable as political beliefs. I'm fine if someone has a different fiscal policy than me, but I'm not going to accept or associate with someone that hates minorities just because they're family.

And this is the big one. Some people are more than willing to ignore that sort of bigotry coming from family in order to keep a portion of a relationship alive. But not everyone is going to put up with that the way some of you will. I have wholesale cut relatives out of my life that can't let go of the toxic "All white people are evil" bullshit and I don't regret it.

Edit: To add to this, for those saying I should extend an olive branch, hear them out or consider a 1% chance that perhaps my crazy Aunt is right and that all white people ARE evil; I say kick rocks. That's not how you make progress at all. Even opening up to the possibility of something that is DEFINITELY factually wrong is just moronic. You never give nonsense the time of day, that's how that shit begins, and I refuse.

 

[Stumpokapow]

What do you even use Facebook's News Feed feature or care about it if you don't want to see anyone's content?

I don't understand why it is causing you emotional distress that I unfollow people who post spam.

"Aggressive"/"spam" seems like almost anything could fit that definition to you, so personally I just don't think your advice is particularly useful.

It is true that the definition of spam varies by person, which is why I do not recommend the OP turns over his social media accounts to me to curate them, but instead uses his own standards for curation.

And sharing political opinions on Facebook is not an inherently self-centered behavior. Sometimes it's to learn or share relevant information or to collaborate or just have engrossing conversation.

Yep, I'm sure the OP's father believes that this is the case as well.

 

[appaws]

We are all in bubbles now, of our own choice. It is just what internet age atomization has wrought. A lot of you see it in your family members, but deny it in yourself. We all want to absorb things that validate and make us feel good about what we already think.

I bubble myself by reading Lew Rockwell and Tom Woods, and other liberty oriented sites, etc. etc. etc.

I assume a lot of gaffers are bubbling themselves into a left-wing cocoon just like I am in a libertarian one. Of course everyone believes that their bubble represents reality against everyone else being deceived in theirs.

The solution. Read books. Grow a garden. Leave your phone off and go talk to your neighbors and invite them over for a cookout.

 

[gamz]

That was my Father. Thank God he never did social media or the internet for that matter. Still loved the old man tho.

 

[DonShula]

You more or less described my dad. Except the news comes from Fox instead of Facebook. He tried to get all us kids to read Glen Beck's book back in the day, claiming the next few years would be the most important for us and our young families. Like the revolution was coming or something. Then Obama got elected and my dad decided by the end of his two terms that Obama had done more irreparable harm to the country than any other president. Now that Cheetoh Jesus is actively doing that, my dad doesn't have much to say.

We decided awhile back that we just weren't going to talk about politics. Sometimes we bait him with a "because Obama" but for the most part it doesn't get discussed. The focus stays on the grandkids and that seems to work well.

 

[hanspampel]

brainwashed is a strong word
so fist make sure he is brainwashed and an extremist by general standards and not only your point of view

if that is the case, seek professional help, because anything else or less is not productive and will only make it worse

 

[Bleepey]

Get their opinions on tape. Make sure they can't misremember shit when Trump does something stupid that counteracts things he said, Play shit back to them.