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How does Fallout 4 compare to 3 and new Vegas? Spoilers allowed
- Thread starter JohnnyFootball
- Start date
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
One thing that I found to be very odd about the storyline quests is that, while you certainly have quests that can turn factions hostile, I was very surprised at some of the quests that didn't turn specific factions hostile.
The Battle of Bunker Hill goes directly against the goals of the Railroad and the Brotherhood, but yet you can complete that quest and nobody will be upset.
Also, you can advance very far into the BoS storyline before you eventually turn other factions hostile. I was rather surprised that rebuilding Liberty Prime (LP) did NOT turn the Institute hostile nor did recruiting Madison Li. I could do those quests and then choose to side with the Institute. Madison Li was gone and nobody cared.
For the Liberty Reprimed quest, I do feel that it would have been far more interesting if you were given an option during Liberty Reprimed to implant a virus so that LP could be controlled by the Institute, Railroad or even the Minutemen OR OR OR with a high enough Intelligence it could be programmed to do YOUR bidding. Imagine ruling the Commonwealth with Liberty Prime as a companion! While the Institute wins using Liberty Prime, I feel it could have been more interesting if it could have been done undercover.
The Battle of Bunker Hill goes directly against the goals of the Railroad and the Brotherhood, but yet you can complete that quest and nobody will be upset.
Also, you can advance very far into the BoS storyline before you eventually turn other factions hostile. I was rather surprised that rebuilding Liberty Prime (LP) did NOT turn the Institute hostile nor did recruiting Madison Li. I could do those quests and then choose to side with the Institute. Madison Li was gone and nobody cared.
For the Liberty Reprimed quest, I do feel that it would have been far more interesting if you were given an option during Liberty Reprimed to implant a virus so that LP could be controlled by the Institute, Railroad or even the Minutemen OR OR OR with a high enough Intelligence it could be programmed to do YOUR bidding. Imagine ruling the Commonwealth with Liberty Prime as a companion! While the Institute wins using Liberty Prime, I feel it could have been more interesting if it could have been done undercover.
New Vegas is better, objectively. That's how I feel about it.
4 is certainly prettier as Bethesda finally figured out how people look... kind of... Well, they look better than the previous entries lol. The dialogue system was watered down way too much and the outright removal of skills, why they thought that was a good idea I'll never know >.>
As for the quests... nothing genuinely interesting has really gone on from what I've seen, exploring
Beyond that, speech checks being completely blind and random chance to succeed... ugh, just why? They took the RPG out of the RPG. I miss my speech skill so much @_@
4 is certainly prettier as Bethesda finally figured out how people look... kind of... Well, they look better than the previous entries lol. The dialogue system was watered down way too much and the outright removal of skills, why they thought that was a good idea I'll never know >.>
As for the quests... nothing genuinely interesting has really gone on from what I've seen, exploring
Kellog's brain was kinda neat but how much better would it have been to have discovered all of that prior to the confrontation with him? That entire situation could have played out far more interestingly than just, "I found you, time to die!"
Beyond that, speech checks being completely blind and random chance to succeed... ugh, just why? They took the RPG out of the RPG. I miss my speech skill so much @_@
I'm annoyed enough with Fallout 4 about fifty hours in that at some point before the end of the year I'm going to wind up writing a lot about it, I think.
They got a lot of things right - it's actually a very satisfying game to look at I think, and the physical world is one of their best in an aspect of design I feel they already lead the industry at - but the quest design and dialogue is definitely the lowest point of the series.
There are things that I don't think are so sacred about the Fallout series that they shouldn't be examined for an abstraction change. I'm actually pretty okay with the change to SPECIAL and perks from a character construction standpoint. You don't need Skills to accomplish what Skills existed to accomplish. These things aren't what I think fuck up the experience as an RPG.
What they've done to conversations and quest branching is absolutely something that flies in the face of what Fallout is supposed to be exceptional at. Fallout 3 basically looks like New Vegas in this aspect compared to Fallout 4. All of the freedom in this game comes from the same core place it always has in Bethesda titles; being able to pick a direction and explore areas you've never been before. That all still works and is certainly entertaining in its own right. The second you start a conversation or try to advance a quest step the game feels heavily railroaded, actively fighting your agency to change the outcome in any meaningful way. It isn't even the number of dialogue options per branch that kills things (though it isn't a boon in any way either), it's the fact that regardless of how many they put on the screen they all seem to lead to the same results. You hardly even really get to dictate your personality in these responses; it feels like you're just borrowing someone else's character every time a conversation happens.
I'm not sure your choices have ever mattered less in a Bethesda RPG full stop. If they double down on this direction they're going to lose me in the long run. It's just not engaging when so much agency to affect the outcome of the adventures you wander into feels like it has been removed. More than any game they've ever made it feels like a big theme park, where once you've seen each set piece you have very little reason to experience it again. This is certainly the first Fallout game where I don't feel much of any desire to make new character.
They got a lot of things right - it's actually a very satisfying game to look at I think, and the physical world is one of their best in an aspect of design I feel they already lead the industry at - but the quest design and dialogue is definitely the lowest point of the series.
There are things that I don't think are so sacred about the Fallout series that they shouldn't be examined for an abstraction change. I'm actually pretty okay with the change to SPECIAL and perks from a character construction standpoint. You don't need Skills to accomplish what Skills existed to accomplish. These things aren't what I think fuck up the experience as an RPG.
What they've done to conversations and quest branching is absolutely something that flies in the face of what Fallout is supposed to be exceptional at. Fallout 3 basically looks like New Vegas in this aspect compared to Fallout 4. All of the freedom in this game comes from the same core place it always has in Bethesda titles; being able to pick a direction and explore areas you've never been before. That all still works and is certainly entertaining in its own right. The second you start a conversation or try to advance a quest step the game feels heavily railroaded, actively fighting your agency to change the outcome in any meaningful way. It isn't even the number of dialogue options per branch that kills things (though it isn't a boon in any way either), it's the fact that regardless of how many they put on the screen they all seem to lead to the same results. You hardly even really get to dictate your personality in these responses; it feels like you're just borrowing someone else's character every time a conversation happens.
I'm not sure your choices have ever mattered less in a Bethesda RPG full stop. If they double down on this direction they're going to lose me in the long run. It's just not engaging when so much agency to affect the outcome of the adventures you wander into feels like it has been removed. More than any game they've ever made it feels like a big theme park, where once you've seen each set piece you have very little reason to experience it again. This is certainly the first Fallout game where I don't feel much of any desire to make new character.
Frozenprince
Banned
I think it's a great game with some bad deficiencies that hopefully will be worked out with another installment. I love the atmosphere and world compared to 3 and NV (NV in particular had the dullest world), the setpiece design is really good.
I like the streamlining of some aspects, but if you're going to remove skills, you need to have a comparable system in place to make you feel like them being removed was for the best, and they don't. I get lost in building settlements, so those are great but I wish they were a little less... random? I can't think of a good word to express my opinion. I would like for there to be less spots to settle and for the ones you have to feel more important, basically have 5-6 spots where I can build my own Megaton.
Combat is the best it's ever been.
Dialogue, well, yeah it's a pretty big step down, I really hope they ditch the dialogue wheel and give you select, canned voiced responses. Basically give you the old system but make all the lines voiced. That's not gonna happen of course, but I really hope they do away with the dialogue wheel, it doesn't work.
I don't see much, if any of it, changing though. It sold 20M units already.
I like the streamlining of some aspects, but if you're going to remove skills, you need to have a comparable system in place to make you feel like them being removed was for the best, and they don't. I get lost in building settlements, so those are great but I wish they were a little less... random? I can't think of a good word to express my opinion. I would like for there to be less spots to settle and for the ones you have to feel more important, basically have 5-6 spots where I can build my own Megaton.
Combat is the best it's ever been.
Dialogue, well, yeah it's a pretty big step down, I really hope they ditch the dialogue wheel and give you select, canned voiced responses. Basically give you the old system but make all the lines voiced. That's not gonna happen of course, but I really hope they do away with the dialogue wheel, it doesn't work.
I don't see much, if any of it, changing though. It sold 20M units already.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Sold? Or shipped?
You want to be able to talk the leader of a faction out of one of their core principles? Really?
Rushersauce
Banned
Fallout 4 is a fun but poorly designed/written Fallout fanfiction. It's also a GIANT FETCHQUEST.
Sakura
Member
I enjoyed it. I'd place it at about the same as Fallout 3.
Fallout NV is the better game obviously.
Somethings I didn't like:
The music. Most of the songs are the same shit I already heard in the other games. Come on.
The protagonist. I am not against making a voiced protagonist. But at least make him have things worth saying for crying out loud. Every time he talks it just seems aloof/out of place. It's like, yea, I am from 200 years ago. For me, last week, everything was still normal. But whatever, let me go kill super mutants for you. There's no personality.
Loading times. They are too long.
The aesthetic. I am really really tired of the fallout run down post apocalypse aesthetic. Come on. It's been over 200 years. Surely these people can sweep a goddamn floor, or make a wall without gaping holes in it every where.
Infinite Quests. I really do not give a shit that this generic settlement is being attacked yet again, by raiders from this place I literally cleared out yesterday.
Things I did like:
Modifying guns. I found this to be pretty fun.
The factions. I thought it was cool to go waste those hippies as the Brotherhood.
The institute. It was a breath of fresh air from the boring wasteland.
Companions. They still need work, but it is a good direction I think.
Fallout NV is the better game obviously.
Somethings I didn't like:
The music. Most of the songs are the same shit I already heard in the other games. Come on.
The protagonist. I am not against making a voiced protagonist. But at least make him have things worth saying for crying out loud. Every time he talks it just seems aloof/out of place. It's like, yea, I am from 200 years ago. For me, last week, everything was still normal. But whatever, let me go kill super mutants for you. There's no personality.
Loading times. They are too long.
The aesthetic. I am really really tired of the fallout run down post apocalypse aesthetic. Come on. It's been over 200 years. Surely these people can sweep a goddamn floor, or make a wall without gaping holes in it every where.
Infinite Quests. I really do not give a shit that this generic settlement is being attacked yet again, by raiders from this place I literally cleared out yesterday.
Things I did like:
Modifying guns. I found this to be pretty fun.
The factions. I thought it was cool to go waste those hippies as the Brotherhood.
The institute. It was a breath of fresh air from the boring wasteland.
Companions. They still need work, but it is a good direction I think.
Admiral Woofington
Member
not being able to make factions act friendly is by far my biggest complaint.
they didn't even give you dialogue options to fully understand why. It is what it is.
they didn't even give you dialogue options to fully understand why. It is what it is.
Frozenprince
Banned
Pretty sure they hit 20M+ shipped a couple weeks ago, so if they haven't sold that many units, they're approaching it. They had 12M units shipped a week after launch.
To be fair, they make a big deal about how conflicted he is about those principles.
It's a shame there's literally nothing that comes from that.
Voysa Reezun
Banned
Narrative-wise, this game looks worse than NV because NV handled the balancing of different factions in a much more developed way. You had options in that game; here, you feel railroaded.
Bad Fallout is better than many good games, IMO; I love what Fallout is in general. However, Bethesda isn't very good with giving you branching options to complete quests, and they really minimized the strengths of a charismatic character. I always go high on Charisma and Intelligence at the output of playing a Fallout game, but were I playing this again, I'd just dump points into Strength and Agility. Violence is a CLEARLY more efficient solution in this game than in any of the other Fallout games.
Bad Fallout is better than many good games, IMO; I love what Fallout is in general. However, Bethesda isn't very good with giving you branching options to complete quests, and they really minimized the strengths of a charismatic character. I always go high on Charisma and Intelligence at the output of playing a Fallout game, but were I playing this again, I'd just dump points into Strength and Agility. Violence is a CLEARLY more efficient solution in this game than in any of the other Fallout games.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
New Vegas is still better overall, but I feel Fallout 4 isn't too far off and superior to Fallout 3 in every way. Also playing with a Luck build was the most fun I've had with combat in any Fallout.
Tha took me awhile to get over. For your character the world has massively changed in a matter of minutes, and he or she takes it amazingly well.
Tha took me awhile to get over. For your character the world has massively changed in a matter of minutes, and he or she takes it amazingly well.
The best speculation I've seen is because consoles have four face buttons.
blankempathy
Member
I wouldn't say every way. I played a charisma build and boy was it mostly useless as far as the typical charisma stuff goes. I'ved used persuasion 90% of the time to mostly just get more caps. Though its very telling when the speech bobble head gives vendors more caps.
I like settlements but I hope the next game has less of them. Now I know I don't have to bother with every settlement but I think its bad game design when certain content gets so redundant that the player wants to skip it. At first it was awesome. I, like most people, built a few awesome bases and buildings. Until i started to have more and more settlements and I didn't care enough to continue doing so. After a point I simply just built large buildings in the middle and armed them up with turrets. Also most of the settlement locations are pretty uninspiring. There are too many simple farm locations. I think if the next game had less settlements with unique locations and have settlement creation have more depth its a better route to go. Quality over quantity. Also rebuilding the wasteland by myself is a bit immersion breaking when there are so little safe communities scattered through out the commonwealth. The fact that I can create 30 of them is silly.
What really holds fallout 4 back is the repetition. The game is front loaded with so many quests that are literally the same quest in a different location. It's lazy, it's boring, and just a colossal waste of time to the player. I won't even go into how basic a lot the story elements are, or how you are forced into a lot of situations, and you just got to nod your head and agree because the dialogue system doesn't allow you to bend the rules that often. The settlements are a love or hate it kind of thing, but they feel very disconnected from the rest of the game, and the game gives you too many settlements that there's no way to manage them all or any incentive to do so.
I don't understand the hang-up people have on this. Sold and shipped are functionally the same from Bethesda's perspective. When you buy a game from Target or Gamestop, Bethesda's not selling you the game, they already sold the game to the retail outlet.
Isn't that perk bugged in a hilariously OP way outside of VATS as well?
But 4 is not hard on survival as melee, actually it's a complete joke. I was facerolling legendary/skull enemies by lvl 6 with the bat you can buy in diamond city. Blitz/rooted/lone wander/crit perks you can completely dump END, never use power armor and become basically unkillable since everything on screen dies so fast.
funkystudent
Member
Fallout 4 just feels like a collection of checkbox quests instead of the sprawling sandbox of player choice that past games where.
Player choice has basically been eliminated.
Also Fallout 4 doesnt have that standout quest like past Bethesda games do with stuff like the the Dark Brotherhood or something. Everything is just kind of average or forgettable.
Player choice has basically been eliminated.
Also Fallout 4 doesnt have that standout quest like past Bethesda games do with stuff like the the Dark Brotherhood or something. Everything is just kind of average or forgettable.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
The main characters VO, particularly the male, was fantastic. He delivered some great lines.
Sadly it was at the cost of dialog complexity and trees, but the feature came out better than I thought it would.
Sadly it was at the cost of dialog complexity and trees, but the feature came out better than I thought it would.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yeah the perk increases your percentage by 200 instead of 20, or something like that. You always have 95% to hit.
blankempathy
Member
a note on this. Hearing them go "uh huh" or "yep" over and over while npcs are talking to them is annoying. No need to have the player character act like hes listening.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
It's great when someone is telling a sad story and you do it.
Hatty
Member
New Vegas has Boon and Rex the Robodog so it wins
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
0
/
10
Yeah this was a HUGEEEEEEEEEEE disappointment for me because with all the Synths running around That Gun from Blade Runner would have a perfect fit for the game because Synths are pretty much Replicants from Blade Runner and the complete lack of good Dusters was also a disappointment.
Its Quite Toasty
Banned
you can but I wanted to be able to fight it from the beginning. I saved danse without the fight through charisma but why wasn't there an option to try and convince maxson on the ship or completely agro the brotherhood there. Just a thing that pissed me off is all. Also the game getting me to de friend the railroad without even telling me a couple of pieces of dialog would completely fuck me in that regard
you forgot danny trejo
CANNOT AGREE MORE. I named my character Deckard and was delighted when Codsworth called out my name in the opening, which means they clearly had Blade Runner in their mind, but yet "That Gun" isn't even in the game. DISAPPOINTMENT.
Comrade Crunch
Member
I'd put it between 4 and NV, Nick Valentine alone makes a great argument for 4.
Yellowflashdude
Member
I liked the feature of a voiced protagonist and would welcome it in future Bethesda games. I just wish that the dialogues were more immersive. Here is this guy/girl who is transported 200 years into the future and he/she acts like barely anything changed in the world.
More or less how I feel after about 20 hours of gameplay. Just a really big disappointment all around, I honestly had a lot more fun with modded Fallout 3.
So yeah, hoping the mods will save 4.
I loved it lol. At some point I stopped caring about anything any of the NPCs had to say, so going "yep", "cool," "okay" all the time when they're whining and telling their sob story was great
PuppetSlave
Member
Was pretty disappointed when I realized the focus was totally different from 3 and Vegas. No more create who you are play an character.(good or evil aside). No skills to shape the character but jack of all trades really.
But I learned to like the game very much in the end. Put in 80 fun hours and finished the game. It's a great game on it's own merits, it just doesn't quite feel like an sequel. Kinda like the jump from 2 and 3 but this time it was not in the core gaming mechanic sense.
But I learned to like the game very much in the end. Put in 80 fun hours and finished the game. It's a great game on it's own merits, it just doesn't quite feel like an sequel. Kinda like the jump from 2 and 3 but this time it was not in the core gaming mechanic sense.
The Lone Courier
Member
I like FO4 but quickly reminded by the lack of depth in quest design, dialogue, and lack of choice. FNV is better.
Holy shit, I did. What a wonderful game New Vegas was. I think I used every single companion in that game just to wrap up all their stories.
johnnydrama
Banned
I put 25 hours into the game before throwing in the towel. Coming from The Witcher 3, which is the absolute best RPG I've played, I just didn't find what I was looking for in this game. I came in expecting a WRPG with choices and role playing, but all I got was a broken, basic-ass dialogue system, choices that didn't matter, and hardly any roleplaying.
The main story is terrible, and I just gave up on it around 70-75% in. Side quests are mostly just fetch quests apart from a couple of good ones, but that's just not enough for a 100+ hour game. The gameplay is okay, but I simply got tired of the boring quests and dull writing, and realized I was basically forcing myself to play it because it had gotten great reviews. Doesn't help that most characters are dull and poorly voice acted.
Overall, it's been a massive disappointment since I was planning to put 200+ hours into this game.
The main story is terrible, and I just gave up on it around 70-75% in. Side quests are mostly just fetch quests apart from a couple of good ones, but that's just not enough for a 100+ hour game. The gameplay is okay, but I simply got tired of the boring quests and dull writing, and realized I was basically forcing myself to play it because it had gotten great reviews. Doesn't help that most characters are dull and poorly voice acted.
Overall, it's been a massive disappointment since I was planning to put 200+ hours into this game.
My biggest objections to the game have to do with the role playing. Basically, I'm often times forced into playing a character I don't want to play. It's been said that the dialogue options are often poor or even misleading, but I also really dislike the delivery of the lines, particularly when it came to the main quest (so far, I'm still early in it). With text I can read it in the voice I intend, in my head. As spoke the dialogue very rarely reflects my intent or how I imagine my character. I feel like it was very misguided; I don't like having a backstory, motivation and strong personality put on my character. In some ways it takes me out of the feeling of really role playing; the blank slate of the ES games was so much better.
I also dislike the extent to which companions are forced upon me. I ignored the dog from the get go, I didn't want to show back up so I could follow it around forever several quests later. Quite often, I just don't have the option of being the lone gunman (er, woman) I want to be. Everyone can stay home. I got this.
I'm also very testy that settlements are forced upon me; I set up camp in the house in Diamond City only to learn later that you can't build any crafting stations in it (!!!!). I was forced to relocate to a formal settlement outside of town to have my own, linked, crafting stations.
It also has the worst UI of a major game I've played in, well, I cant think of a worse one. Just awful.
All of these things knock it down from Fallout 3, but in the end I think it still comes out ahead in most other respects. Much more densely packed with things to do - it's a pretty active wasteland - and the VATS combat is fun. I really dig building my own weapons over time; I've grown attached to a couple of guns I've been improving steadily since early on. They built a really detailed, entertaining world to explore. And I find it to be unexpectedly gorgeous at times; radiation storms are pretty amazing.
I also dislike the extent to which companions are forced upon me. I ignored the dog from the get go, I didn't want to show back up so I could follow it around forever several quests later. Quite often, I just don't have the option of being the lone gunman (er, woman) I want to be. Everyone can stay home. I got this.
I'm also very testy that settlements are forced upon me; I set up camp in the house in Diamond City only to learn later that you can't build any crafting stations in it (!!!!). I was forced to relocate to a formal settlement outside of town to have my own, linked, crafting stations.
It also has the worst UI of a major game I've played in, well, I cant think of a worse one. Just awful.
All of these things knock it down from Fallout 3, but in the end I think it still comes out ahead in most other respects. Much more densely packed with things to do - it's a pretty active wasteland - and the VATS combat is fun. I really dig building my own weapons over time; I've grown attached to a couple of guns I've been improving steadily since early on. They built a really detailed, entertaining world to explore. And I find it to be unexpectedly gorgeous at times; radiation storms are pretty amazing.
It's far worse than Fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas and also slightly worse than Fallout 3 . Basically, it's the worst mainline Fallout game.
I had a hilarious moment in the game where you go out to look for Kellogg and the game forces you to use Dogmeat. I hate that dog and dumped him very soon after getting him, so I decided to see where the game would take me if I didn't take the dialogue options mentioning a dog or Dogmeat specificaly, suddenly Nick is all like "HEY WE COULD USE DOGMEAT!". What the fuck Nick, how do you know I have a dog? I just fucking saved you from a Vault and that dog was chilling somewhere in a doghouse in Sanctuary.
I had a hilarious moment in the game where you go out to look for Kellogg and the game forces you to use Dogmeat. I hate that dog and dumped him very soon after getting him, so I decided to see where the game would take me if I didn't take the dialogue options mentioning a dog or Dogmeat specificaly, suddenly Nick is all like "HEY WE COULD USE DOGMEAT!". What the fuck Nick, how do you know I have a dog? I just fucking saved you from a Vault and that dog was chilling somewhere in a doghouse in Sanctuary.
in new vegas?
the shop in novac sells it
the texture is from millenia's WRP:
http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/38285/?
the gif is my own
Seraph_Nicholas
Member
I'm so fucking salty that Obsidian won't be making a new vegas-like game on the Fallout 4 engine. Bethesda is just terrible at writing. The plot is just an inversion of 3, down to finding your family member heading up a group of superscientists planning to save the wasteland. The companions are fucking DULL. I miss Boone so badly. Hell, I miss useful companions. The dog is nearly useful, but they really should have gone all the way making him the non-compaion, and made him perfectly stealthy and invisible to traps. As is, he fucks up more than he helps.
It's really becoming clear to me just how far Bethesda's vision of Fallout is from the original. New Vegas clearly has a lot of shared DNA with the Black Isle games, but 3 and 4 are very different animals.
It's really becoming clear to me just how far Bethesda's vision of Fallout is from the original. New Vegas clearly has a lot of shared DNA with the Black Isle games, but 3 and 4 are very different animals.
