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How does Fallout 4 compare to 3 and new Vegas? Spoilers allowed

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I recently completed Fallout 4 and earned my platinum trophy.

Verdict: I loved the game and it certainly gave me my "Fallout fix." However, I personally can't help but feel that the game wasn't as good as New Vegas or even Fallout 3.

What I loved:
1. The world. It never gets odd wondering from place to place, building to building and seeing what you can find.

2. Weapon and armor modding: I really dug this feature.

3. Radiant quests. It was nice to always have the option to level up and farm XP.

4. No level cap.

What I didn't think was an improvement and needed work:

1. The dialogue system had some issues.
I wasn't a fan of having a voiced protagonist as I felt the dialogue options were far too limited and vague in few but not all instances. In New Vegas and Fallout 3 it was always crystal clear what you wanted to say as the dialogue was completely spelled out. I also was very frustrated how some missions required you to go back to a companion for completion, but you had to actually make them a companion before you could get quest dialogue. Another potential major issue is that there were a few instances where talking to someone forced you to start a quest that could have consequences that you weren't ready to deal with. In one instance you were required to turn in a previous quest to the BoS captain, BUT it immediately defaulted to dialogue that forced the Railroad to become hostile.

2. Companions more often than not, got in the way. It was extremely annoying when they would block the doorways and/or cause you to get stuck.

3. The settlements ultimately felt pointless. I know some people loved them, but I never once really felt that they made the game better. They always felt like a chore and the UI was pretty terrible. I particularly hated that in order to get the maximum benefit out of them you had to invest several perks. I personally wished they would have scrapped settlements and just created some more quest lines OR just kept them similar to what they did in Skyrim.

4. Too much emphasis on using violence and not enough on speech. This was one of my favorite things about New Vegas, was that many many quests enabled characters with a high speech build to be able to talk their way out of many fights. You could do this even in the final battle! Thats not to say it was non-existent in Fallout 4, but I was big time disappointed that you couldn't use speech to have factions work together and/or have a truce.

5. Too much damn entering and exiting. This was my biggest hope for Fallout 4 is that we would do away with many of the loading screens, but no. Many buildings had multiple layers of going in and out. The Pedwyn for instance.

6.VATS issues. How often did I use VATS and it would miss at point blank range?

7. The perk tree had its good and its bad. I didn't like that it could take many many levels to build up the character you wanted to be. On things like weapon damage and armor strength I get it, but on things like Sneak, why shouldn't you be able to maximize it early if you wanted to be a sneaky character? Also some perks ended up being a major disappointment such as the mysterious stranger which hardly ever appeared. Same with bloody mess. I wanted crazy gore!

Here are some of my thoughts. What did you like didn't like?

I felt this was worth of its own thread since the OT thread is more game-related questions.
 

dlauv

Member
Why's everyone so down on statistics? VATS does not guarantee any shots will hit.

You keep saying this, but it's quite obvious to everyone that if an enemy was directly in front of you, you were more likely to miss completely. 95% hit chance doesn't mean you're going to miss five shots point blank as often as players do.

The problem is that when you VATS someone that is rubbing basically against you it gives you usually a 0% chance to hit on most body parts. If they're a small distance ahead of you it gives you 95% usually, but between then and your attack, they've already approached you in slo-mo. Or maybe it's 95% on a part even if they're rubbing against you but positioned favorably, but they're going to animate out of that hit chance. It's unintuitive, but fairly obvious what's occurring. I usually abort VATs when I realize that it's happening.

It's similar to the issue when you get like 95% through a small gap in the environment, but they move behind the environment during the slo-mo. It's also, imo, similar to the issue when your FOV is out and you're closer or further away from the object than you think you are.

Anyway, back on topic, I tried going back to NV; but, it plays so much worse that I couldn't be bothered. I did like New Vegas more than my time with FO4 though. I also tried a melee build in FO4 but it's way less fun than shooting. But that only makes sense: I played Wolfenstein: TNO since I've gotten it on Steam sale recently, and even that GOTY shooter for many plays worse than Fallout 4, lol. Guns feel slightly better in Wolf, but they're less fun to use. Enemies are less reactive and enemy AI is waaaay worse on the reg in TNO, and FO4 is harder than TNO's Uber.
 

WaterAstro

Member
Radiant.
Now that's a word I haven't heard in a while.

I'd certainly prefer NV, but they're all so bad compared to Fallout 2.

I just couldn't stand how closed Fallout 4's choices felt. You weren't making choices, the game made choices for you, and the "choices" were artificial between 3-4 hard faction selections.

Also, the bugs literally reduced my choices to 1 faction, which puts me off.
 

Replicant

Member
I have more accuracy shooting straight than using VAT. That's kind of messed up. I thought that thing is supposed to be state-of-the-art machinery or something.

Companions getting in your way and getting stuck on object when you tell them to move somewhere is also annoying.
 

Ogimachi

Member
FO4 improves gunplay, graphics, and that's about it. Overall it's not even in FNV's genre, and even FO3 (never thought I'd say this) had better quest design and more C&C.
 
Better in some ways, but I still like Fallout 3 more. Fallout 3 was a ten for me, whereas 4 is a 9.

New Vegas is very good, too.
 

mujun

Member
I love the game and would probably put it above 3. Not sure yet if I would put it above NV, though.

I wish I could hide the settlement stuff more. It irritates me seeing the warning marks next to a settlement's name. I am sick of not having enough oil or whatever to build turrets. Gave up on the Minutemen as my faction of choice after having to build up The Castle. I might dig into it seriously on a different playthrough but at the moment I don't like the building aspect much at all.

The quest quality is up to snuff, it was a worry at first but the mainline stuff up to the point I'm at (just got to the Glowing Sea) combined with ample other sidequests I've found has me satisfied on that front (Silver Shroud, Robots on the Constitution quest, Pickman quest, Detective cases, etc).

The city is so dense it's mindboggling. I can't get over how many areas and buildings there are to explore. I also love the atmosphere of the city and many of the other areas (Glowing Sea is intense!).

I love the feel of the shooting, new VATS, perk chart, etc. Not a fan of the dialog system. Would love to have the one from NV.

Disappointed a little in the weapons and equipment and feel that variety was sacrificed a little due to the crafting system. For 20 levels or so the only rifle was the combat rifle, pipe rifle and sniper rifle. NV had so many types of rifles alone. Same goes for pistols and automatic weapons. They also feel hard locked to levels. It's obvious that certain types of weapons only appear as loot and in shops after a certain level is reached. One of my favorite parts of 3 and NV was going straight for combat armor or a kickass rifle right off the bat.

It is pretty much a lock for my GOTY. Definitely a few things I consider steps back, though.
 

Seyavesh

Member
doesn't have 'that gun' despite having a plot based off of blade runner and several quests/easter eggs based off it

0/10
 

120v

Member
new vegas is one of the best games i've ever played, so i kept my expectations in check

it's a great game marred by some head scratching design decisons. expectedly it didn't recapture the NV magic but as a direct sequel to FO3 it went above and beyond. not quite the leap i anticipated but good enough
 
It's definitely better than 3, NV on the other hand, I'm not yet sure that the things that 4 does better than NV are more significant than the things NV does better than 4. In the long run, I feel like NV will probably be the better game.

The freedom of choice in NV was so great, 4 feels a lot more restrictive, but on the other hand, the writing in 4 is a significant improvement from 3. It's to the point that even though the main story is far less choice based than NV (but way more open than 3), it's almost as good. I'm pretty unhappy with the dialogue system in 4 though, having a voiced character is all well and good, but if choices are made more restrictive because of it, i'd rather it be taken out.

I appreciate the fact that 4 didn't dick around with the lore too much, the BoS was more like they were in 1,2, and NV, and not those goody two shoes, save the wasteland types that 3 tried to make them into.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Fallout 4 looks so amazing to me. Just wandering around with the way the light hits the trees out in the wasteland...it's special.

The dialogue system is basically unacceptable to me. Like WTF were they thinking???
 
It's fun to explore but once I was done exploring I pretty much lost interest in playing. The quests other than the main story weren't doing it for me. Dialog system is terrible. Perk system is meh. Really not into town building and all that shit.

It was really fun while it lasted but it did not last long at all for me. I remember playing Fallout 3 and being into it for a lot longer.
 
Fallout 4 sits solidly as "two steps forward, one step back" for me. I LOVE the crafting and settlements stuff and the game play feels smoother overall for 3 and New Vegas.

But yeah, that dialogue system really hurts things, and with Witcher 3 around, it was just really did not compare in terms of story and graphics.

But overall I found 4 was an improvement. Though I do miss the writing and factions of New Vegas for sure.
 
I will explain my distaste for fallout 4 with a spoiler.

Later in the game it is revealed that danse is a synthetic and the brotherhood orders you to kill him. I had thought of myself as a man who hated the institute and believed in the brotherhood to that degree but believed synths should be free. I believed that my character would have fought hard against the command but instead the game only allowed me to show slight disdain for the task. Not only that but later the game basically forces you to act in support of or at least scared to cross the brotherhood while someone begs you not to kill danse. Dammit fallout 4 why can't you just let me be the mouthy soldier who disobeys a superior to their face.
 

Courage

Member
It's a streamlined Fallout 3 with better gunplay. I might prefer it over 3 but doesn't come close to New Vegas.
 

Lingitiz

Member
Fallout 4 is the game that made me realize the Bethesda magic had worn off. Skyrim has a huge array of problems but I was able to overlook most of them. With FO4 I just couldn't do it. It's as if Bethesda locked themselves in a room for the last few years and completely ignored what Obsidian did and the user made mods over the years that have done so much to improve their games. There's only so many times you can see the same problems and flaws and look away.

Fallout 4 looks so amazing to me. Just wandering around with the way the light hits the trees out in the wasteland...it's special.

The dialogue system is basically unacceptable to me. Like WTF were they thinking???

Unfortunately the instant you see a character model or some jank fuckin' animation the illusion goes to shit.
 

number47

Member
Never played NV. But after watching a friend play skyrim. I love how the system works for fallout. Especially with the mods . very excited to get a pc copy for mods.

The vats is funny. I abused it in f3. So the slowdown does make me not just pause the game.

Only ten hours in though.
 

Ferrio

Banned
I'm at 22 hours and I think I'm done with the game. I feel like I'm just repeating the same thing over and over again, and there's nothing to look forward to. It's just going to be more super mutants/bandits/ghouls, the same 4 choices of dialogue, and my build is never going to change significantly. I'd maybe trudge through if the story was anything interesting, but by all accounts it isn't. I got my moneys worth, but overall the game was a huge letdown.
 

Zekes!

Member
I think I like 4 more than 3, and I never played NV. That said, when it's all said and done I feel like 4 is more like a half step forward.
 

foxtrot3d

Banned
Poorly.

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New Vegas Quest Design:
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Karamsoul

Member
Radiant.
Now that's a word I haven't heard in a while.

I'd certainly prefer NV, but they're all so bad compared to Fallout 2.

I just couldn't stand how closed Fallout 4's choices felt. You weren't making choices, the game made choices for you, and the "choices" were artificial between 3-4 hard faction selections.

Also, the bugs literally reduced my choices to 1 faction, which puts me off.

Maybe he means "emergent"?
 
I'll just quote what I said in that other Fallout thread from yesterday.

"Dialogue system is terrible and there is very little choice in how to complete quests and not much variety in the actual quests themselves either. It's a bad role playing game, but pretty enjoyable if you just want to mess around and explore a theme park world that makes little sense."

I can see why others enjoy it, but this type of game wears out it's welcome pretty quickly for me. I hope Obsidian does the next Fallout and nixes Bethesda's systems.

I really can't disagree with any of the other points you made either OP. The constant loading for entering and exiting buildings are really annoying after playing The Witcher 3. It's also ridiculous that for a game that supposed to be all about freedom that there are so many immortal NPCs.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
NV > 4 > 3 IMO.

I finished up 4 last night and steam says i played 42 hours. I really have no desire to go back to it and see how it plays out with the other endings. I went with the brotherhood of steel and the finale with liberty prime was pretty cool.

New Vegas just stands head and shoulders above both Bethesda games because of the writing and way the quests played out IMO. You have so many options in how you approach things.
 

mujun

Member
Fallout 4 looks so amazing to me. Just wandering around with the way the light hits the trees out in the wasteland...it's special.

This. All the graphics discussion just before release was crazy.

The game looks incredibly beautiful at many points.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
This. All the graphics discussion just before release was crazy.

The game looks incredibly beautiful at many points.

It looks stunning at times when you're outside, especially the rad storms and the glowing sea..... but interiors really look like butt.
 

Dranakin

Member
NV >> 3 = 4.

I don't think there's any debate that NV is the best of the three, so the question is how does 4 compare to 3?
 
I'm at 22 hours and I think I'm done with the game. I feel like I'm just repeating the same thing over and over again, and there's nothing to look forward to. It's just going to be more super mutants/bandits/ghouls, the same 4 choices of dialogue, and my build is never going to change significantly. I'd maybe trudge through if the story was anything interesting, but by all accounts it isn't. I got my moneys worth, but overall the game was a huge letdown.

this is where i'm at with it. i decided to start mainlining the game to see if the story went anywhere interesting and it did for a while, but clearing out building after building got boring as hell
 

mujun

Member
It looks stunning at times when you're outside, especially the rad storms and the glowing sea..... but interiors really look like butt.

I'd disagree with going as far as "butt" :)

They look leagues better than anything in 3 or NV. Geometry, density of stuff and of course textures and the like.

I guess if you consider all PS4 games then the interiors are pretty mediocre.

I was just in the Mass Fusion Building. I think it looks pretty nice inside. Mainly the design of the architecture.
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
doesn't have 'that gun' despite having a plot based off of blade runner and several quests/easter eggs based off it

0/10
Really? There go my plans for a Christmas purchase, I'll wait for fully developed mod tools and put it in myself if I have to.
 

willooi

Member
New Vegas still reigns supreme for me. Disappointed that FO4 has done away with multiple solutions for quests, which was always such a staple of the series, and I really miss having Skills dictate what you could and couldn't do (and making new character builds play out so differently). And they let you join factions - and even become leader for one of them (?!) - way too early on. None of the new vaults add much at all, either.

In saying that though, I love the world and colour in FO4, and the crafting and house building in particular. The Power Armour redesign is excellent, however there's far too many Fusion Cores around that make it too easy to simply stay suited up the whole time. Absolutely love the legendary enemies and variation in loot. Sprinting is a good addition, and having it consume Action Points is perfect.

Companions are also hugely improved even though, personality-wise, I'd say only Nick Valentine comes close to the likes of Arcade, Veronica, Cass, and Boone. Strong does make me chuckle though. Unfortunately maxing out your affinity with companions leads to some dreadful dialogue too, "You're my best friend, and this is what best friends forever do for one another".

Also, issues with balance: MacCready's perk for +20% VATS headshot accuracy has completely ruined the difficulty, and I've been playing on Survival difficulty the whole way through. For me, Fallout is at its best when you're struggling to survive, scraping together your final few caps to buy just one Stimpak, and often having to rely on non-violent solutions to tense situations because of how difficult the enemies might be. Credit where it's due though, as I really like the slow healing effects of Stimpaks and food, which made Hardcore Mode in NV so compelling.

Not a fan of the new dialogue system overall, and really hate some of the delivery by the male voice actor..."Heeey", "You!", "Sing it, brother" - cringeworthy stuff.

Ultimately, love the gameplay of FO4, but miss the darker atmosphere, writing and quest design of New Vegas. Fair play to the Glowing Sea, though, great area. Glad to see that the writing has improved a lot since FO3, despite the odd "you're our hero!" perfect quest endings...the conclusion for Vault 81 being a prime example.
 

marzlapin

Member
I will explain my distaste for fallout 4 with a spoiler.

Later in the game it is revealed that danse is a synthetic and the brotherhood orders you to kill him. I had thought of myself as a man who hated the institute and believed in the brotherhood to that degree but believed synths should be free. I believed that my character would have fought hard against the command but instead the game only allowed me to show slight disdain for the task. Not only that but later the game basically forces you to act in support of or at least scared to cross the brotherhood while someone begs you not to kill danse. Dammit fallout 4 why can't you just let me be the mouthy soldier who disobeys a superior to their face.

Er, you can fight pretty hard against that particular command. To the point where you can convince Danse to start thinking of himself differently and talk Maxson into letting Danse live in exile instead. It does depend on your charisma stat but what else would you have wanted to see out of that?
 

Meowster

Member
I found it better than 3 but it wasn't as good as New Vegas. It's a good and fun ride, even if the story falls off the rails at the end.
 

pantsmith

Member
It's a great adventure game, for sure.

It's just not a great role playing game.

New Vegas is not only way better in nearly every way, but it's legit one of the best role playing games of all time. No hyperbole. So even though Fallout 4 is great and improves in a lot of cool ways (The Glowing Sea!) it's still a painful step down.

New Vegas > Fallout 4 > Fallout 3
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Er, you can fight pretty hard against that particular command. To the point where you can convince Danse to start thinking of himself differently and talk Maxson into letting Danse live in exile instead. It does depend on your charisma stat but what else would you have wanted to see out of that?

I would have liked it so that you could actually talk Maxson out of his prejudice.

Sweet jesus, I made this thread with spoilers being allowed.
 
I'm not enjoying FO4 much. At this point I just wanna finish it just because... I feel like they skipped on depth and went with easier to approach gameplay with the perk system and dialog that doesn't really do anything.
 

Kallor

Member
Its not on NV's level and I'll still place Fallout 3 over it. The Skill and dialogue system really burned me on this game. Feels far too much like Skyrim with guns or something Ubisoft made now.

A Poor Mans Fallout.

NV>2>1>3>4
 
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