Support NeoGAF

[#Phonepunk#]

Finn's arc was fulfilled in TFA, he wasn't even planned to be in TLJ. He should have died a hero in that movie.

see i was looking forward to seeing his past, finding out who he is. a stormtrooper as our lead character? this was actually something new. would we see where the FO gets their soldiers from? maybe Finn's loyalty would be tested in a real way? does he have any residual PTSD? maybe now that he's out of the FO he wants to find his family? so many interesting directions to take it. instead it's just dropped entirely.

 

[Raven117]

Of course, but when the company responds with "we don't owe you anything" and "suck it man babies" they make it personal.

Other than the insult, no they don't. They owe it to their shareholders to make a good movie and keep you invested.

You don't get it. Lucafilm without George promised us something and didn't deliver. They lied to George's face and ours.

And they did it in favor of bringing in a new audience that had no interest in Star Wars.

It backfired hard on them.. Asian audiences hate Rose.

Kennedy had creative differences with everyone except Rian Johnson, who turned out to be a meek nerdy male feminist who doesn't understand the original Star Wars trilogy. Please tell me you aren't dumb enough to believe that Rian understands Star Wars given what we know now

Does it matter if they lied to George? They paid him for the rights. He sold his franchise that you are such a fan of and gave up creative control. Whatever happens after that, is what it is. They didn't lie to you, and even if they did, so what? Their franchise, not yours.

So what if he didn't understand Star Wars? I will agree with your that they failed to garner the enthusiasm. But thats their problem. You can still love what is out there on the Star Wars universe.

 

[Raven117]

So just to confirm, if we dislike something the right thing to do is to shut up about it. Excellent plan.

I didn't say that. What I did ask if whether complaining about it actually effects anything

 

[Fbh]

Worst Star Wars movie and just an overall bad adventure/sci fi movie. It ended up killing what little interest I had left in the Disney era of Star Wars

 

[MilkyJoe]

I didn't say that. What I did ask if whether complaining about it actually effects anything

Well Solo bombed hard, a 50 million loss, at a minimum. Tlj and solo dvd sales are very low, and the toys are in the pound shop and next to zero Star Wars merch in the Disney stores here. I think they got the message. Well we know they did as they cancelled Boba Fett and Kenobi

 

[entremet]

It was all right. I preferred TFA by miles. Didn't like that they turned Poe into some brat and Finn into some Eddie Murphy comic relief character.

 

[MacReady13]

Lucas planned 9 movies from the very beginning, but realized that Episode 1-3 could not have been realized with the tech they had at the time. Its a well known fact that he had a saga planned out from the beginning. Regardless of midiclorians are a thing he had in mind at the beginning or not, the fact of the matter is that the correct interpretation of the OT is that the Skywalkers are this unbeliveable family. Anakin is born without a father (space jesus), Mace Windu explains to qui-gon he might be the one to bring balance to the force (born into destiny), and in the OT; Yoda and Obi-Wan literally say across many ocassions that only Luke can beat his father. Luke himself declares that his powerful force powers comes from their father (when explaining to Leia).

What does it matter if a character has had training to harness their power? You are still a mary sue. Awakened power still comes from a point of writing born-into-greatness as a part of the characters identity. Luke and Leia are so capable and able to resist this great evil because they are skywalkers. The Emperor is interested in Luke Skywalker because he is Skywalker. The Emperor doesnt care about him being good at hitting landspeeders or having training. No- Luke, like his father is endlessly beyond normal force sensitive jedi.

Both TFA and TLJ cooperates this idea about Kylo Ren. Kylo destroyed Lukes academy because he is so powerful and a threat. Luke was taken advantage of made to think in his visions that Kylo would kill the academy, and by unintended hesitation on Luke parts, he got his students killed, and Kylo Ren, the Skywalker villain was born.

Its a family saga, but this family is more powerful than any other. So it doesnt matter if its the OT, the prequels or the new movies. They all confirm the power and capabilities of the Skywalker blood. Mary Sues. As I said before, just because Skywalker awakens his power of a certain amount of time, or discovers the truth over a certain amount of time, the power still comes from him being a child of Anakin. Thats all there is to it.



Naruto is a Mary Sue too. But as I said, Mary Sues come in different forms. The drama with the Kyuubi is that the power within him is a curse as much as a blessing. The other villagers hate him, and when Naruto losses control, the Kyuubi is hurting his loved ones. Thats a dramatic twist on Mary Sue, but Mary Sue none the less. And as I said in the beginning, I dont hate Mary Sues or think Mary Sues are created equally. But a Mary Sue is a Mary Sue, and there is nothing wrong with pointing out the difference between protagonists who were written to be that way, with protagonists who are not.

George Lucas had the idea of Midichlorians from the inception of Star Wars. And no, Luke is NOT a Mary Sue. Rey is though. The articles flying around saying Rey cannot be a Mary Sue because of her supposed lineage (this was during the release of The Force Awakens) meant that the amazing abilities she had were a result of her ancestors (the articles were suggesting she had a powerful force family like Luke/Leia)... They were wrong.
And The Last Jedi is a terrible Star Wars film. A competently shot and edited film, and it looks sumptuous, but a good film it is NOT.

 

[MacReady13]

I didn't say that. What I did ask if whether complaining about it actually effects anything

So why complain about anything, then? Can we not have a discussion and let out some steam?

 

[Raven117]

Well Solo bombed hard, a 50 million loss, at a minimum. Tlj and solo dvd sales are very low, and the toys are in the pound shop and next to zero Star Wars merch in the Disney stores here. I think they got the message. Well we know they did as they cancelled Boba Fett and Kenobi

That’s voting with you wallet. Not complaining.

So why complain about anything, then? Can we not have a discussion and let out some steam?

Do whatever you want. But that’s not what you are doing. Go read back. “Blowing off steam” is not what’s going on.

 

[Dazrael]

There must be something in it when TLJ is near unanimously hated by everyone. There are outliers who love it but they are in the minority. More power to them if they do like it but it's almost referred to as fact that it's a bad film. It would have been an Alan Smithee film if it wasn't so adore by the guy who directed it. Oedipus complex much?

It is a terrible film and an even worse Star Wars film, I still feel violated by it a year after release. The Phantom Menace, while classed as a bad film, was at least made with heart and imagination. TLJ felt like it was made with spite with a subliminal two fingered salute for the fans in the end credits. And the tragedy is that this was their only shot to get the old band back together and they blew it, the lightning missed the bottle and went straight back off into the clouds.

In my mind Star Wars was a franchise of it's time, namely late 70s/early 80s. The films should have stopped in '83 and history would have been so much kinder to them. With all their meddling the franchise is tainted now, even the OT after the Special Editions. The films don't feel like an event anymore and, say what you want about George, don't have the imagination and world building needed to bring that galaxy far, far away to life.

Remember; Star Wars is a fairy tale set in space, not a platform for modern day issues.

 

[MoFuzz]

Raven117

Do you honestly think that one of the largest media and entertainment corporations in the world saw fit to pay upwards of $4 billion for "just another popcorn adventure movie"? Your argument is that we should just be quiet, stop complaining, and go off to mindlessly consume supposedly better content elsewhere, is that it? Shut down that pesky critical thinking and brain power. Just find something else to like instead! Regardless of our individual affinity, Star Wars is a cultural phenomenon that has transcended entire generations. The original trilogy gets the core mythology right, which is a huge part of why it has endured the test of time whereas countless other IP's have faded into the dust. The hero's journey is timeless, and people look to tales of heroism for inspiration and hope. They destroyed all of that, and some people really didn't appreciate it. Is it really that big of a surprise?

If they don't owe us anything, then why call it a sequel trilogy? Sequel to what exactly? Why are they called episodes 7, 8, & 9? If they wanted to make their own stories, far removed the Skywalkers, they could have done so. In fact, there's a good chance it would've been far less insulting than what was delivered. Instead, they roped in old fans by pretending to continue the story, banked on nostalgic references throughout each project, all while shitting on the legacy characters in the service of propping up their useless and incompetent new characters. Trying to have your cake and eat it too is nice when you can pull it off. Too bad for Lucas/Disney that people are seeing through the facade and calling bullshit, rightfully so.

The backlash that we're seeing now is fully deserved. They had the largest cash cow in recent memory lined up and turned in a rushed, lazy hack job instead. If you are personally not that invested in the franchise, that's fine. If you enjoyed Last Jedi or Disney Star Wars in general, that's fine. However, a four decade franchise with one of the largest fanbases of any single intellectual property is going to have some passionate people that fall on both sides. I don't see any utility in coming in into a thread to mock others for voicing their displeasure with something, when that was literally the question posed in the title. You aren't the arbiter of other people's thoughts and feelings. You also don't get to choose the degree which people can like or dislike something.

 

[MacReady13]

That’s voting with you wallet. Not complaining.

Do whatever you want. But that’s not what you are doing. Go read back. “Blowing off steam” is not what’s going on.

I understand exactly what is happening, but at the end of the day, steam is all that is being blown! People are venting anger and frustration at a franchise we once loved.

 

[Raven117]

Raven117

Do you honestly think that one of the largest media and entertainment corporations in the world saw fit to pay upwards of $4 billion for "just another popcorn adventure movie"? Your argument is that we should just be quiet, stop complaining, and go off to mindlessly consume supposedly better content elsewhere, is that it? Shut down that pesky critical thinking and brain power. Just find something else to like instead! Regardless of our individual affinity, Star Wars is a cultural phenomenon that has transcended entire generations. The original trilogy gets the core mythology right, which is a huge part of why it has endured the test of time whereas countless other IP's have faded into the dust. The hero's journey is timeless, and people look to tales of heroism for inspiration and hope. They destroyed all of that, and some people really didn't appreciate it. Is it really that big of a surprise?

If they don't owe us anything, then why call it a sequel trilogy? Sequel to what exactly? Why are they called episodes 7, 8, & 9? If they wanted to make their own stories, far removed the Skywalkers, they could have done so. In fact, there's a good chance it would've been far less insulting than what was delivered. Instead, they roped in old fans by pretending to continue the story, banked on nostalgic references throughout each project, all while shitting on the legacy characters in the service of propping up their useless and incompetent new characters. Trying to have your cake and eat it too is nice when you can pull it off. Too bad for Lucas/Disney that people are seeing through the facade and calling bullshit, rightfully so.

The backlash that we're seeing now is fully deserved. They had the largest cash cow in recent memory lined up and turned in a rushed, lazy hack job instead. If you are personally not that invested in the franchise, that's fine. If you enjoyed Last Jedi or Disney Star Wars in general, that's fine. However, a four decade franchise with one of the largest fanbases of any single intellectual property is going to have some passionate people that fall on both sides. I don't see any utility in coming in into a thread to mock others for voicing their displeasure with something, when that was literally the question posed in the title. You aren't the arbiter of other people's thoughts and feelings. You also don't get to choose the degree which people can like or dislike something.

Im not arbitrating anything. I have said before, feel what you want. Those folks just look like a immature childish moron who can't let go of childhood. And that, I dont care about, but its when many "fans" shout down others, and make the experience poor for others who do appreciate the ham-fisted corn ball space opera that it is and don't take it seriously is when I say something.

They don't owe you anything. Nothing. They owe it to their investors to make a product that people want. They call it a sequel because they want people to have those warm fuzzies from their childhood to make them open their wallets and buy a bunch of crap, watch movies, etc. This is just a work of fiction made to make you open their wallets and dump it out.

And be honest, you and everyone in here love my posts. You typed up three paragraphs to tell me of my failures and incorrectness. You re-read it. You edited it. Probably took you 15 to 20 minutes. You love it.

 

[Raven117]

I understand exactly what is happening, but at the end of the day, steam is all that is being blown! People are venting anger and frustration at a franchise we once loved.

But shouting down others in the process. But yeah, I get it. Im just enjoying the conversation and the edges of fandom.

 

[hariseldon]

Hmm I only see one person here spending time shouting down others about a thing he professes to not really care about.

 

[Raven117]

Hmm I only see one person here spending time shouting down others about a thing he professes to not really care about.

Then you haven’t been following the thread. And admit it. You love it. It’s why you are here. It’s why you checked back

 

[MoFuzz]

Im not arbitrating anything. I have said before, feel what you want. Those folks just look like a immature childish moron who can't let go of childhood. And that, I dont care about, but its when many "fans" shout down others, and make the experience poor for others who do appreciate the ham-fisted corn ball space opera that it is and don't take it seriously is when I say something.

They don't owe you anything. Nothing. They owe it to their investors to make a product that people want. They call it a sequel because they want people to have those warm fuzzies from their childhood to make them open their wallets and buy a bunch of crap, watch movies, etc. This is just a work of fiction made to make you open their wallets and dump it out.

And be honest, you and everyone in here love my posts. You typed up three paragraphs to tell me of my failures and incorrectness. You re-read it. You edited it. Probably took you 15 to 20 minutes. You love it.

You are stating that it's acceptable to dislike the movie, but any attempts to dislike it any more than you personally deem worthy will be met with your ridicule. It's obviously a ridiculous spaceballs-esque cheesy corn-fest, and anyone who says otherwise is taking it waaaaay too seriously. Star Wars was, is and forever will be for children and man babies! Does that sound about right?

In essence, you are agreeing with me that their fraudulent attempts at nostalgia and reverence have failed, so thanks for that. They are finding out, the hard way, that they sacrificed long term benefit with the existing fans by attempting to appeal to new audiences in a way that alienates the old. Solo bombed, the side-films were cancelled, the toys rot on the shelves, conventions cancelled. They're 100% allowed to do whatever they want with their franchise, which includes running straight into the ground. Mission Accomplished.

I wouldn't be too quick to take credit for something when I'm merely attempting to formulate my thoughts as coherently as possible. It's an opportunity to sharpen my arguments and speak more clearly. That said, it's becoming clear why you enjoyed this movie so much. We are getting into Rian Johnson levels of trolling, whereby intentional attempts to provoke and antagonize others is considered as thought provoking and brave. Best of luck with that.

 

[highrider]

It was ok, the diversity felt forced and they really dropped the ball on Luke. It had things I liked but it felt like a bunch of scenes and not very cohesive. I also think Daisy Ridley is kind of one note and the writing isn’t helping.

 

[Saturnman]

Felt the same as TFA.

Meh

I thought Rogue One was the worse.

 

[Ancient Dragon]

Hated it, was incredibly pointless and didn’t answer any questions.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Just watched Star Wars : Shards of the Past on YouTube. It puts Disney to Shame.

 

[caramelhedgehog]

Liked it more than the previous part. But anyway, I enjoyed Rogue One more than the new episodes. I mean, come on, there's so much to tell, why do you keep focusing on the old stories?

 

[crobb991]

probably enjoyed it more than most of my mates.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Unimaginative rehash of ESB and ROTJ. Maybe even more so than TFA was a rehash of ANH.

I’ve already seen these movies like hundreds of times. Throwing in some lame twists doesn’t make it new

 

[pel1300]

Unimaginative rehash of ESB and ROTJ. Maybe even more so than TFA was a rehash of ANH.

I’ve already seen these movies like hundreds of times. Throwing in some lame twists doesn’t make it new

Yes!!! More people need to realize this!

TLJ was borderline plagiarism....especially the throne room sequence and Crate. The throne room part had dialogue ripped straight from ROTJ.

 

[Trogdor1123]

It has its flaws but it's fun. I go to movies for fun so that's good enough for me.

I'm looking forward to the next one.

 

[Petrae]

The Last Jedi was the first movie associated with Star Wars that I never watched. I never cared to see it. I considered my free time much more valuable than to waste on it. The closest I ever came to seeing it was watching the Mr. Plinkett review of it.

After sitting through A New Hope 2.0– errrr The Force Awakens— and Rogue One, I had decided that Disney Star Wars was something that I didn’t want to bother with. Disney was going in its own direction with a license that it bought from its creator who decided that he was done with it.

Sure, “Star Wars” branding is being used in Disney Star Wars, but it’s not really the Star Wars that I came to know and love as a youth and young adult. The new characters are uninteresting retreads of the ones that George Lucas created, while the familiar characters are killed off or worse. But hey— there are stormtroopers and familiar ships to remind you that HEY IT’S STILL STAR WARS, GUYS!

Whatever. Hey. Disney didn’t buy Star Wars from Lucas because it cared about Star Wars. The House of Mouse bought Star Wars from Lucas as a money-making opportunity, and it’s going to bleed every last penny out of the license while making films that appeal to its own vision. I think the vision is a steaming pile of goatshit, so I’m not going to waste my time. Others think it’s great, so all power to them.

 

[Futaleufu]

The beginning of the end of this franchise.

If they cant sell toys they wont be making more movies.

 

[HaveButOneLife]

The worst StarStar Wars movie.

 

[V2Tommy]

Fourth-best Star Wars film. It has issues, but at least it’s not silly and trying to sell you toys.

 

[MoFuzz]

Fourth-best Star Wars film. It has issues, but at least it’s not silly and trying to sell you toys.

I took the Rebel Alliance logo ring as being some kind of product placement.

Then there's those stupid dice that keep getting shown that no one cares about, but for some reason Disney/Lucasfilm think they're important.

As well, the movie's final scene involves a child playing with action figures and reenacting heroism even though there was none to be found for two and a half hours prior. In fact, it went out of its way to point out that self-sacrifice was silly and good and bad are relative.

 

[Iceternal]

Fourth-best Star Wars film. It has issues, but at least it’s not silly and trying to sell you toys.

LOL porgs...

 

[Ovek]

Fourth-best Star Wars film. It has issues, but at least it’s not silly and trying to sell you toys. /s

Fixed that for you.

 

[Kacho]

Couldn’t even be bothered to watch it for free on Netflix. I am out on Disney Star Wars for now. Both TFA and Rogue One did absolutely nothing for me.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Fourth-best Star Wars film. It has issues, but at least it’s not silly and trying to sell you toys.

The last scene of the movie is a Target commercial

Then there are porgs. At least Ewoks had a Vietnam parallel. Porgs are just big eyes slapped on a plush doll

Then the Rebel decoder ring. Save up your gruel for a month and even slave child can buy one.

Then those stupid dice. Luke and Leia’s only reunion, used to promote a shitty side movie. No doubt these dice come w the Young Han Solo figure

At least Lucas has the imagination to come up with all kinds of cool aliens in Jabb’s palace. Nobody wants a toy of a generic rich gambling alien

 

[MilkyJoe]

Fourth-best Star Wars film. It has issues, but at least it’s not silly and trying to sell you toys.

Go and watch it again, sausage...

 

[5secondrulesucks]

what if when i got a boner it was a light saber

you know what i hate. the "cool" star wars fans. like dudes who probably dont really care for star wars that much but its kind of like "im a neeerrrrdd maaaaaan" i had a JJ instructor who had star wars tattoos and i talked to him about star wars and he had no fucking clue what i was talking about and im a scrub when it comes to the lore or whatever. but its like you fucking suck.

 

[Luffytubby]

George Lucas had the idea of Midichlorians from the inception of Star Wars. And no, Luke is NOT a Mary Sue. Rey is though. The articles flying around saying Rey cannot be a Mary Sue because of her supposed lineage (this was during the release of The Force Awakens) meant that the amazing abilities she had were a result of her ancestors (the articles were suggesting she had a powerful force family like Luke/Leia)... They were wrong.
And The Last Jedi is a terrible Star Wars film. A competently shot and edited film, and it looks sumptuous, but a good film it is NOT.

Luke is absolutely a mary sue. Gone over this a billion times.

 

[MC Safety]

Lucas planned 9 movies from the very beginning, but realized that Episode 1-3 could not have been realized with the tech they had at the time. Its a well known fact that he had a saga planned out from the beginning. Regardless of midiclorians are a thing he had in mind at the beginning or not, the fact of the matter is that the correct interpretation of the OT is that the Skywalkers are this unbeliveable family. Anakin is born without a father (space jesus), Mace Windu explains to qui-gon he might be the one to bring balance to the force (born into destiny), and in the OT; Yoda and Obi-Wan literally say across many ocassions that only Luke can beat his father. Luke himself declares that his powerful force powers comes from their father (when explaining to Leia).

I don't think that's true. Star Wars was a one-off until the money came rolling in. "A New Hope" and episode IV was added later.

Lucas probably embraces the nine movie idea because it adds to the mystique.

 

[hariseldon]

Luke is absolutely a mary sue. Gone over this a billion times.

Repeating something a billion times doesn't make it any more true.

 

[Outrun]

Utter shit in my opinion.

RJ introduces characters like Holdo, and gives them their moment to shine, while Admiral Ackbar gets stucked out of the window...

Ditto for Luke and Rey.

 

[Luffytubby]

Repeating something a billion times doesn't make it any more true.

Neither does it make it not true, in the case of seeing dogpiling posts and drive-by posts by posters. I've already explained in detail exactly how and why Luke goes under the umbrella of a Mary Sue. LTTP Drive-by posts and dogpiling doesn't really disprove of the facts. Luke as a character is born into greatness because of his family. He is a Mary Sue. And a ridiculously "nice guy" at that. Luke was as boring and pedestrian as they come. Pate hair colored teen, focus-grouped to appease young boys and man-children because that's all they wanna identify with. Shit is generic and gets old. TLJs character arc is him being a much more nuanced and complicated character. It makes him more interesting and less off-the-shelves {insert-random-hero-into-plot-here}. Really was common for hero characters during that time, but it also perfectly explains why Han Solo is a much cooler character than Luke despite Luke being way more awesome and the space saviour jesus of the galaxy and shit.

 

[hariseldon]

Neither does it make it not true, in the case of seeing dogpiling posts and drive-by posts by posters. I've already explained in detail exactly how and why Luke goes under the umbrella of a Mary Sue. LTTP Drive-by posts and dogpiling doesn't really disprove of the facts. Luke as a character is born into greatness because of his family. He is a Mary Sue. And a ridiculously "nice guy" at that. Luke was as boring and pedestrian as they come. Pate hair colored teen, focus-grouped to appease young boys and man-children because that's all they wanna identify with. Shit is generic and gets old. TLJs character arc is him being a much more nuanced and complicated character. It makes him more interesting and less off-the-shelves {insert-random-hero-into-plot-here}. Really was common for hero characters during that time, but it also perfectly explains why Han Solo is a much cooler character than Luke despite Luke being way more awesome and the space saviour jesus of the galaxy and shit.

Just because the majority disagrees with you does not make it dogpiling, stop playing the victim. Calling people man-children is not argument, it's abuse. Focus groups didn't exist in the 70s. Han Solo was better because, not burdened with carrying the main plot, and played by a superior actor, he had room to be more fun. Learn to deal better with people having differing opinions.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

I don't think that's true. Star Wars was a one-off until the money came rolling in. "A New Hope" and episode IV was added later.

Lucas probably embraces the nine movie idea because it adds to the mystique.

A little of column a a little of column b. Most of the scenarios and characters were actually written back during the drafting of the first film. Each draft was almost an entirely different story and characters would swap places and change. At one point Luke was going to be a girl. Mace “Windy” and “padawan learner” are in the very first draft. True he didn’t have the whole thing in sequence but the ideas all came from the same creative stretch.

I highly recommend The Secret History of Star Wars which goes into detail on the writing of the OT and PT. It’s fascinating to see how the films were made. The story was constantly being updated even during shooting (for instance Obi Wan dying was only added after they already shot the Tatooine scenes)

Lucas spent years writing the first film and material for many more before they even started production. TLJ was like hashed out in a month and it feels like it

 

[pel1300]

Neither does it make it not true, in the case of seeing dogpiling posts and drive-by posts by posters. I've already explained in detail exactly how and why Luke goes under the umbrella of a Mary Sue. LTTP Drive-by posts and dogpiling doesn't really disprove of the facts. Luke as a character is born into greatness because of his family. He is a Mary Sue. And a ridiculously "nice guy" at that. Luke was as boring and pedestrian as they come. Pate hair colored teen, focus-grouped to appease young boys and man-children because that's all they wanna identify with. Shit is generic and gets old. TLJs character arc is him being a much more nuanced and complicated character. It makes him more interesting and less off-the-shelves {insert-random-hero-into-plot-here}. Really was common for hero characters during that time, but it also perfectly explains why Han Solo is a much cooler character than Luke despite Luke being way more awesome and the space saviour jesus of the galaxy and shit.

Have you SEEN A New Hope??? Or The Empire Strikes Back???

 

[MC Safety]

A little of column a a little of column b. Most of the scenarios and characters were actually written back during the drafting of the first film. Each draft was almost an entirely different story and characters would swap places and change. At one point Luke was going to be a girl. Mace “Windy” and “padawan learner” are in the very first draft. True he didn’t have the whole thing in sequence but the ideas all came from the same creative stretch.

I highly recommend The Secret History of Star Wars which goes into detail on the writing of the OT and PT. It’s fascinating to see how the films were made. The story was constantly being updated even during shooting (for instance Obi Wan dying was only added after they already shot the Tatooine scenes)

Lucas spent years writing the first film and material for many more before they even started production. TLJ was like hashed out in a month and it feels like it

I'm sure the creation of Star Wars was very involved and took place over years. That doesn't mean there was a plan for nine movies. Initially, there wasn't a plan for two movies.

Star Wars is self-contained. The only hint of a sequel (Darth Vader escaping) is more of a nod to the serials that inspired it than anything else.

 

[MacReady13]

Have you SEEN A New Hope??? Or The Empire Strikes Back???

No point in arguing with someone who believes they are right. Just because someone is destined for greatness and has royal lineage does NOT make them a Mary Sue.
If that is what makes you a Mary Sue, then Rey cannot possibly be a Mary Sue as her parents are nothing! She is in fact a Mary Sue because of that fact though... she is as skilled as anyone with Han's ship without having ever flown it. She is a master lightsaber user without having never used it. She requires no training to use the force or move a tonne of rocks! I mean honestly, how can she have no training whatsoever and be so adept at using the force? Luke required years of training and still got his ass handed to him by Vader. In fact, even the emperor kicked his ass at the end of ROTJ. He still couldn't beat Vader either is a saber fight.
There is NO WAy known that Luke is a Mary Sue. The ONLY reason why people bring up the Luke being a Mary Sue thing now is because they are butt hurt that anybody dare question a strong female lead as being far too overpowered in a series with set rules in regards to force training and usage.

Anyway, we are all wrong in regards to who is a Mary Sue because 1 guy in here says so...

 

[RavenSan]

I'm still mad about Space-Jesus Leia.

That was ridiculous. On top of everything else, that was just so dumb.

 

[MacReady13]

I'm still mad about Space-Jesus Leia.

That was ridiculous. On top of everything else, that was just so dumb.

I really would love an explanation on how exactly that lady who dropped the bombs at the start of the film didn't get sucked out of the ship, considering the ship was opened up right below her dropping bombs! How did she survive out in space??? That on top of various other flaws in this film ALMOST make it laughable...

 

[jonnyp]

Hated it with a passion. Complete stinker