Grinchy
Banned
Not to mention, this is a world where somehow nobody even knows who saved the entire galaxy just a few decades later.
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How does Neogaf feel about the Last Jedi?
- Thread starter RoyBrown7777
- Start date
pramod
Banned
The only good thing I can say is I liked the part when the walkers fired at Luke and he just walks out of it and wipes his shoulders. There's nothing else in that movie that isn't cringe worthy or just nonsense.
You know a movie is utter garbage when there is only a few moments here and there that you would bear to watch again.
You know a movie is utter garbage when there is only a few moments here and there that you would bear to watch again.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
On the terrorism thing, I'll just observe that one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist, and also that terrorism wasn't so much in the public eye in America as it is today, so suicide bombings, etc weren't really a thing people thought of. In some ways that makes the terrorist approach in TLJ (ie the light-speed-ship-destruction moment) even more iffy.
Just watched Phantom Menace, for the first time in many many years, and thought it might be useful to compare it vs the new trilogy, as well as considering its own merits, at some point I'll subject myself to AOTC and ROTS but that'll be a tough day.
First thing, the ship designs don't get a lot of love, but actually looking back, while they could have benefitted from the griminess of physical effects present in the OT and the ST, there is at least an attempt to be imaginative and try new things. One could explain the greater variety of ships in lore as the former republic was a technologically advanced empire (with a small e) and no doubt some loss of capability will have been lost in the process of the Empire coming into being.
The CGI did of course cause some of the problems in the film, being not quite ready for prime time. Consider that this came out in 1999, followed by episode 2 in 2002, where Matrix Reloaded in 2003 had some hilariously awful full-CGI scenes, films were trying to pull it off but it wasn't ready yet, and looking back on films of this era, the CGI stands out badly. It did also ruin the acting due to overreliance on green screens and of course it's hard to act with a CGI creature (eg Jar Jar Binks) - you lose the chemistry between two humans whose personalities bounce off each other, facial expressions, mannerisms, all communicating layers underneath that which is intentionally acted.
The acting isn't great and the script is poor, but not as bad as I remembered. To be fair, the kid acts a lot better than Hayden Christensen. This is, admittedly, not difficult. The biggest problem, however, is a failure to understand that Star Wars is not really carried by Mark Hamill, but by Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford (bear in mind his prior work consisted of mostly TV work and has done little of note outside of star wars - he was terrible in Criminal Minds for instance - where Harrison Ford had a bit more under his belt and went on to do considerably better, and Carrie Fisher was an absolute firecracker but sadly hampered by addictions). Both have their own motivations and bring chemistry to the set in their interactions with each other and with everyone else in ways that are simply not present in TPM, despite a theoretically strong cast.
The film is clearly aimed at a younger age group than Star Wars, or perhaps expectations of what kids wanted to see were different in the late 70s (no idea, I wasn't there) vs the late 90s, but either way, this leads to some clunky exposition, as well as the humour downgrading from the antagonistic relationships between Han and Leia or R2 and C3PO to the slapstick we see from Jar Jar, the robots, and.. pretty much everyone in the god damn film. Far too much damn slapstick.
Despite its problems there IS a fantastic film trying to break out of TPM. It's brave as fuck. It breaks away from the original 3 films, which in many ways follow a formula set up by the first, departing to discuss the fall of a republic which has ceased to function due to bureacracy - that's a really hard thing to do well in film, and I suspect as a book it could have worked but as a film it was tricky - it needed a bit more emotion and even in the senate scenes that could have been achieved, with better writing and acting.
It's also brave in using few of the original cast, using new ship designs, not having stormtroopers (one of the iconic Star Wars features), not using the old ship designs, ultimately doing its best to avoid being a nostalgia-fest, everything TFA fails at (see vader-lite, millenium falcon and bringing back much-loved cast members). Don't get me wrong, seeing Harrison Ford back as Han Solo brought a lump to my throat but in some ways it's cheap. Had the prequel trilogy worked, we could have had brave new Star Wars films pushing boundaries, but we instead got TFA. And then TLJ, which pretended to be brave, but in the end was far from it, with the obvious Hoth substitute, callbacks, etc while showing little respect to the history of the movies (the prequel trilogy went in a different direction without disrespecting the original story).
What saddens me most is what might have been. If they'd waited a bit longer for the tech to be right, had someone been there to rein in George Lucas's more insane moments, we could have had an amazing new saga for the prequels, and we might have seen George Lucas' vision for episodes 7-9. We missed that, and I think that's a dreadful shame.
Just watched Phantom Menace, for the first time in many many years, and thought it might be useful to compare it vs the new trilogy, as well as considering its own merits, at some point I'll subject myself to AOTC and ROTS but that'll be a tough day.
First thing, the ship designs don't get a lot of love, but actually looking back, while they could have benefitted from the griminess of physical effects present in the OT and the ST, there is at least an attempt to be imaginative and try new things. One could explain the greater variety of ships in lore as the former republic was a technologically advanced empire (with a small e) and no doubt some loss of capability will have been lost in the process of the Empire coming into being.
The CGI did of course cause some of the problems in the film, being not quite ready for prime time. Consider that this came out in 1999, followed by episode 2 in 2002, where Matrix Reloaded in 2003 had some hilariously awful full-CGI scenes, films were trying to pull it off but it wasn't ready yet, and looking back on films of this era, the CGI stands out badly. It did also ruin the acting due to overreliance on green screens and of course it's hard to act with a CGI creature (eg Jar Jar Binks) - you lose the chemistry between two humans whose personalities bounce off each other, facial expressions, mannerisms, all communicating layers underneath that which is intentionally acted.
The acting isn't great and the script is poor, but not as bad as I remembered. To be fair, the kid acts a lot better than Hayden Christensen. This is, admittedly, not difficult. The biggest problem, however, is a failure to understand that Star Wars is not really carried by Mark Hamill, but by Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford (bear in mind his prior work consisted of mostly TV work and has done little of note outside of star wars - he was terrible in Criminal Minds for instance - where Harrison Ford had a bit more under his belt and went on to do considerably better, and Carrie Fisher was an absolute firecracker but sadly hampered by addictions). Both have their own motivations and bring chemistry to the set in their interactions with each other and with everyone else in ways that are simply not present in TPM, despite a theoretically strong cast.
The film is clearly aimed at a younger age group than Star Wars, or perhaps expectations of what kids wanted to see were different in the late 70s (no idea, I wasn't there) vs the late 90s, but either way, this leads to some clunky exposition, as well as the humour downgrading from the antagonistic relationships between Han and Leia or R2 and C3PO to the slapstick we see from Jar Jar, the robots, and.. pretty much everyone in the god damn film. Far too much damn slapstick.
Despite its problems there IS a fantastic film trying to break out of TPM. It's brave as fuck. It breaks away from the original 3 films, which in many ways follow a formula set up by the first, departing to discuss the fall of a republic which has ceased to function due to bureacracy - that's a really hard thing to do well in film, and I suspect as a book it could have worked but as a film it was tricky - it needed a bit more emotion and even in the senate scenes that could have been achieved, with better writing and acting.
It's also brave in using few of the original cast, using new ship designs, not having stormtroopers (one of the iconic Star Wars features), not using the old ship designs, ultimately doing its best to avoid being a nostalgia-fest, everything TFA fails at (see vader-lite, millenium falcon and bringing back much-loved cast members). Don't get me wrong, seeing Harrison Ford back as Han Solo brought a lump to my throat but in some ways it's cheap. Had the prequel trilogy worked, we could have had brave new Star Wars films pushing boundaries, but we instead got TFA. And then TLJ, which pretended to be brave, but in the end was far from it, with the obvious Hoth substitute, callbacks, etc while showing little respect to the history of the movies (the prequel trilogy went in a different direction without disrespecting the original story).
What saddens me most is what might have been. If they'd waited a bit longer for the tech to be right, had someone been there to rein in George Lucas's more insane moments, we could have had an amazing new saga for the prequels, and we might have seen George Lucas' vision for episodes 7-9. We missed that, and I think that's a dreadful shame.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
feel like what we have seen basically amounts to little more than riffs on concept art George Lucas thought of while brainstorming the original ST. as far back as ESB he had the twin sister of Luke training on the other side of the galaxy. the idea for Luke Skywalker as an old war torn hermit you meet at the end of the movie was actually in one of the original drafts for the first Star Wars. what the new people have done is take those ideas and just drop them into the water and let them sink.
on some level i don't think Lucas ever really seriously considered a ST. during the making of ESB the series was in flux, Vader's parentage not yet finalized. ideas about a twin sister are hinted at by Yoda, but by ROTJ, a failing marriage & the toll of the series made him want to wrap it up. thus ROTJ is very concerned with finalizing a lot of things, wrapping up all loose ends, completing character arcs, etc. the Emperor was supposed to be a big ST villain, he was killed off early. the Skywalker family soap opera was wrapped up and finalized. Obi Wan comes back to explain the retcon of the last movie.
when the series was in a lull in the late 80s/early 90s, and EU authors approached him about doing sequel stories, he graciously agreed and invited them into the official canon. he was going to tackle the past while the fans could tackle the future. this is a fundamental trust that Disney upended when they said all of that is no longer canon.
the prequels was something he had long thought about doing. he had always talked about the different, more political tone they would take. ultimately, instead of Obi Wan, it ended up being the young days of Anakin Skywalker, perhaps because the marketing blitz and popularity of Darth Vader was just too insatiable. in a lot of way they exist only because the fans craved more Star Wars, they bought the toys, the books, the EU novels & comics, they saw the SE and re-release, all this in large part paid for the prequels. pretty rad of Lucas to just do whatever he wanted. these films are pure high production b-movie pulp schlock of the highest order and are actually too nerdy for people who like Star Wars, the hugely popular Disney film series. we are really lucky we got to have them.
on some level i don't think Lucas ever really seriously considered a ST. during the making of ESB the series was in flux, Vader's parentage not yet finalized. ideas about a twin sister are hinted at by Yoda, but by ROTJ, a failing marriage & the toll of the series made him want to wrap it up. thus ROTJ is very concerned with finalizing a lot of things, wrapping up all loose ends, completing character arcs, etc. the Emperor was supposed to be a big ST villain, he was killed off early. the Skywalker family soap opera was wrapped up and finalized. Obi Wan comes back to explain the retcon of the last movie.
when the series was in a lull in the late 80s/early 90s, and EU authors approached him about doing sequel stories, he graciously agreed and invited them into the official canon. he was going to tackle the past while the fans could tackle the future. this is a fundamental trust that Disney upended when they said all of that is no longer canon.
the prequels was something he had long thought about doing. he had always talked about the different, more political tone they would take. ultimately, instead of Obi Wan, it ended up being the young days of Anakin Skywalker, perhaps because the marketing blitz and popularity of Darth Vader was just too insatiable. in a lot of way they exist only because the fans craved more Star Wars, they bought the toys, the books, the EU novels & comics, they saw the SE and re-release, all this in large part paid for the prequels. pretty rad of Lucas to just do whatever he wanted. these films are pure high production b-movie pulp schlock of the highest order and are actually too nerdy for people who like Star Wars, the hugely popular Disney film series. we are really lucky we got to have them.
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pramod
Banned
As mediocre the prequels were, they at least didn't diminish interest in the SW universe. In fact it left the fans only wanting more. Partly because Lucas introduced amazing new charactera like Dooku, Mace, etc.
Thats what makes the ST seem like even more of an utter failure in comparison. Besides maybe Kylo, there are zero characters you really want to find out more about. JJ left an opening for a good backstory for Rey..but then Rian decided she was a nobody, so who cares, right?
I would argue even Rogue One did a much better job in this area. Cassian was interesting enough that they are creating a whole TV series on his backstory. They might do that for Jyn as well.
Thats what makes the ST seem like even more of an utter failure in comparison. Besides maybe Kylo, there are zero characters you really want to find out more about. JJ left an opening for a good backstory for Rey..but then Rian decided she was a nobody, so who cares, right?
I would argue even Rogue One did a much better job in this area. Cassian was interesting enough that they are creating a whole TV series on his backstory. They might do that for Jyn as well.
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ZehDon
Member
I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever tire of NeoGaffigans tearing this thing apart. Doing the Lord' work, folks.
For my part, watching this in the cinema, all it took was Poe's opening lines and I realised that I was witnessing a murder. There I sat, at ground zero. I actually remember the realisation, and made every effort to pay strict attention. I was experiencing what those OT fans must have experienced when The Phantom Menace played on opening day. What was thought to be a once in a life time fuck up was repeating itself. The film? Like watching a two and a half hour car crash. Every scene, every "development", every line of dialog. From butchering Finn, to assassinating Poe's character, to the garbage additions like Holdo, absolute trash from start to finish. In fact, the only thing about this that's worth a damn is a single shot:
The worst Star Wars film by a wide, wide margin. Nothing - not even the worst excesses of the prequels - can match the sheer dumb-fuckery at the heart of this monstrosity. I honestly feel sorry for the actors and crew. Imagine being Oscar Issac and John Boyega, seeing the dailies roll in, and the gut wrenching realisation that the director just destroyed your characters deliberately and wilfully. Imagine being Mark Hamill, who for 30 years wondered what Luke Skywalker's adventures might be, only to watch, helpless, as his signature role was given the Deliverance treatment, and his hand forced to help string the banjo.
For the first time in 30 years, I couldn't give a fuck about what's next for Star Wars, and there's no greater comment than that. I'm done. George Lucas tarnished the brand, sure. Rian Johnson dragged it out to the wood shed and emptied both barrels with a smile.
For my part, watching this in the cinema, all it took was Poe's opening lines and I realised that I was witnessing a murder. There I sat, at ground zero. I actually remember the realisation, and made every effort to pay strict attention. I was experiencing what those OT fans must have experienced when The Phantom Menace played on opening day. What was thought to be a once in a life time fuck up was repeating itself. The film? Like watching a two and a half hour car crash. Every scene, every "development", every line of dialog. From butchering Finn, to assassinating Poe's character, to the garbage additions like Holdo, absolute trash from start to finish. In fact, the only thing about this that's worth a damn is a single shot:
The worst Star Wars film by a wide, wide margin. Nothing - not even the worst excesses of the prequels - can match the sheer dumb-fuckery at the heart of this monstrosity. I honestly feel sorry for the actors and crew. Imagine being Oscar Issac and John Boyega, seeing the dailies roll in, and the gut wrenching realisation that the director just destroyed your characters deliberately and wilfully. Imagine being Mark Hamill, who for 30 years wondered what Luke Skywalker's adventures might be, only to watch, helpless, as his signature role was given the Deliverance treatment, and his hand forced to help string the banjo.
For the first time in 30 years, I couldn't give a fuck about what's next for Star Wars, and there's no greater comment than that. I'm done. George Lucas tarnished the brand, sure. Rian Johnson dragged it out to the wood shed and emptied both barrels with a smile.
Elfstar
Member
The main difference between the new trilogy and the prequel one is that at least the prequels greatly expanded the lore of the world, they explained how its politics worked, they gave fans a bunch of new cool worlds, ships and characters to dream about and to be invested in, and even though the movies themselves were terrible the characters and story they tried to tell about were still somehow fascinating.
The new one are mediocre-to-enjoyable movies that not only failed to provide enough cool characters, heroes and villains, they recycled most of the original trilogy's designs and avoided to expand and build their world and lore in meaningful or captivating ways, while destroying everything that made the brand special to people. They basically turned one of the most anticipated, unique (even charmingly bizarre) event in entertainment into yet another tame, boring, safe, committee-approved generic entertainment blockbuster ip.
The new one are mediocre-to-enjoyable movies that not only failed to provide enough cool characters, heroes and villains, they recycled most of the original trilogy's designs and avoided to expand and build their world and lore in meaningful or captivating ways, while destroying everything that made the brand special to people. They basically turned one of the most anticipated, unique (even charmingly bizarre) event in entertainment into yet another tame, boring, safe, committee-approved generic entertainment blockbuster ip.
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tkscz
Member
I've said this in a previous thread but I'll repeat it. The prequels still had imagination, world building and heart put into them. The weren't executed well due to terrible focus, but that seems to be Lucus's style. He has an amazing imagination and incredible world building abilities, but can't focus on what is necessary and what isn't. The current movies are paint by number. They are simple what "a star wars movie is". They aren't meant to be imaginative, they are meant to sell tickets, so they are made to please the general audience, not really people who enjoy that imagination and heart that was in the other movies. TLJ was just bad though, mainly due to the director's weird obsession with subverting expectations to the point where they just did the opposite thing of making sense because you weren't expecting them to do it. It really shows in bad character arks, bad story, bad pacing, and bad writing. Again, I can't comment on things like lore and what not.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/how-does-neogaf-feel-about-the-last-jedi.1469432/post-253646035 for my thoughts on Phantom Menace. I watched Attack of the Clones and Revenge Of The Sith a couple of days later back to back. I enjoyed them. I mean I actually had a good time. The acting is of course clunky in AOTC, and the romantic scenes are fairly awful, that's well-documented, but of course they are a key part of the plot so one can't skip them. The key thing here however is that again, unlike the newer films which all take place on Earth analogs, these films feel properly alien.
The story is a good one, and I'd forgotten so much of it. There are some fantastic fight scenes, and watching Palpatine become the Emperor while turning Anakin is actually a properly interesting story. Again, like TPM, it's content to tell its own story and not just retread the original trilogy, the prequels are far from safe.
A few of the action sequences could do with being cut down - the scene on the production line could have been shortened - for me that's their Canto Bight (albeit without the preaching), and for some reason the visuals of the lava world for the final fight just didn't do it for me, I'd have preferred a better setting, but that's just my personal taste.
The acting improves dramatically in ROTS, which tells me either they're getting the hang of green screens a bit more or they've given the actors better direction. I suspect a large part of the bad acting in all 3 films btw is maintenance of the dodgy accents we hear throughout, which I presume was intended to convey a more alien world, instead of everyone being from England or America.
The prequel trilogy is flawed, and at the time we didn't appreciate them because they weren't what people wanted at the time, they didn't feel 'star-wars'-y enough, but as I think I mention above, the lack of dirt and grime, while reflective of the limitations of CGI at the time, also reflects the fact that the republic wasn't in the middle of a full-blown civil war at the start of TPM, where by the time of the original trilogy the galaxy's been tearing itself to shreds for years, hence not having some of the tech, etc (so a lore justification for the changes brought about by the switch to CGI).
In some ways the new films have brought the prequels into focus and shown that 'giving us what we wanted' with TFA, and then subversion of that for its own sake in TLJ don't really work as well as letting the creator have his vision. With someone just there to rein in the crazy and tighten it up with editing, the prequel trilogy could have been fantastic. As it is, they're far better than I remembered, and far better than people will generally admit.
The story is a good one, and I'd forgotten so much of it. There are some fantastic fight scenes, and watching Palpatine become the Emperor while turning Anakin is actually a properly interesting story. Again, like TPM, it's content to tell its own story and not just retread the original trilogy, the prequels are far from safe.
A few of the action sequences could do with being cut down - the scene on the production line could have been shortened - for me that's their Canto Bight (albeit without the preaching), and for some reason the visuals of the lava world for the final fight just didn't do it for me, I'd have preferred a better setting, but that's just my personal taste.
The acting improves dramatically in ROTS, which tells me either they're getting the hang of green screens a bit more or they've given the actors better direction. I suspect a large part of the bad acting in all 3 films btw is maintenance of the dodgy accents we hear throughout, which I presume was intended to convey a more alien world, instead of everyone being from England or America.
The prequel trilogy is flawed, and at the time we didn't appreciate them because they weren't what people wanted at the time, they didn't feel 'star-wars'-y enough, but as I think I mention above, the lack of dirt and grime, while reflective of the limitations of CGI at the time, also reflects the fact that the republic wasn't in the middle of a full-blown civil war at the start of TPM, where by the time of the original trilogy the galaxy's been tearing itself to shreds for years, hence not having some of the tech, etc (so a lore justification for the changes brought about by the switch to CGI).
In some ways the new films have brought the prequels into focus and shown that 'giving us what we wanted' with TFA, and then subversion of that for its own sake in TLJ don't really work as well as letting the creator have his vision. With someone just there to rein in the crazy and tighten it up with editing, the prequel trilogy could have been fantastic. As it is, they're far better than I remembered, and far better than people will generally admit.
pel1300
Member
Only TWO message boards I have seen that have many people loving it:
blu-ray.com forums and resetera - about 50% of the members on those sites LOVE this film.
And they think it's "divisive" not universally hated.
Here...feels like almost everyone hates it. At sherdog forums almost everyone hates it. In my life....living in both Asia and Western places...about 90% of people I talk to dislike or hate it.
This movie is not polarizing or divisive....it is UNIVERSALLY disliked. It grossed only 4 million in South Korea....The Force Awakens grossed over 24 million in Korea. But.....The Last Jedi grossed less than 8 million there....that is 3X less than TFA.
By comparison Infinity War grosssed 88.5 million in South Korea. #3 in the entire world.
In Thailand the movie made almost nothing. Everyone thought it was a snoozefest.
Seriously...this movie under performed or bombed everywhere except USA and the UK.
Over 27 million $$ in Mexico for The Force Awakens...but 13 million for The Last Jedi......that's less than half of what TFA made! Mexico LOVES Star Wars.
blu-ray.com forums and resetera - about 50% of the members on those sites LOVE this film.
And they think it's "divisive" not universally hated.
Here...feels like almost everyone hates it. At sherdog forums almost everyone hates it. In my life....living in both Asia and Western places...about 90% of people I talk to dislike or hate it.
This movie is not polarizing or divisive....it is UNIVERSALLY disliked. It grossed only 4 million in South Korea....The Force Awakens grossed over 24 million in Korea. But.....The Last Jedi grossed less than 8 million there....that is 3X less than TFA.
By comparison Infinity War grosssed 88.5 million in South Korea. #3 in the entire world.
In Thailand the movie made almost nothing. Everyone thought it was a snoozefest.
Seriously...this movie under performed or bombed everywhere except USA and the UK.
Over 27 million $$ in Mexico for The Force Awakens...but 13 million for The Last Jedi......that's less than half of what TFA made! Mexico LOVES Star Wars.
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KRAai
Member
so i actually watched this movie last night for the 1st time
as you can guess i am not a big star wars fan
and this movie didn't help with that like at all
the pacing and story itself made it quite boring experience
but the most offending thing was tone
i mean from like straight laughable scenes
for example luke milking some cgi creature
and also pompous scenes that pretend to be something deep that also end up almost as laughable
also i imagine it is hard thing to do this right withouth outrage from old fans
but yoda for me looked and acted like a digitalized muppet which just didn't work for me
so it was like 4/10 movie for me
as you can guess i am not a big star wars fan
and this movie didn't help with that like at all
the pacing and story itself made it quite boring experience
but the most offending thing was tone
i mean from like straight laughable scenes
for example luke milking some cgi creature
and also pompous scenes that pretend to be something deep that also end up almost as laughable
also i imagine it is hard thing to do this right withouth outrage from old fans
but yoda for me looked and acted like a digitalized muppet which just didn't work for me
so it was like 4/10 movie for me
Chairman Tickles
Banned
I feel it was aptly named, because it was the last Star Wars movie I will ever bother seeing. It was absolute crap; it made an effort to shit on the legacy of Star Wars, the characters and on all its long-time fans. The film spat in the eyes of its viewers.
Cybrwzrd
Banned
I think it is going to go down in history as a massive waste of potential because we aren’t going to get another go around with the original cast. I can still stomach watching the prequel trilogy if I see it on, but I don’t see myself ever going out of my way to watch TLJ again.
mekes
Member
The most recent ones are decent enough movies but I can’t see them being remembered anywhere near as fondly as some of the others. I’m not a fan but I do love the original trilogy, but I don’t think you can make a Star Wars movie that will please everyone. That said, the last movie was quite disappointing to me, ok movie but I won’t watch it again. For a Star Wars movie, that’s a disappointment to me.
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#Phonepunk#
Banned
Tbh I don’t hate this movie. It’s just when the reaction is so extreme, people think it is this mind blowing movie and if you don’t agree you are a troll. It is the bizarre over correction that has left a bad taste in my mouth. Feels like Disney uber fans are attacking people for being toxic while being the most toxic element themselves.
Like, it’s just a dumb space movie. Mst3k made a full career out of playfully picking apart dumb space movies. Criticising these films have always been a part of it, only now, it’s seen as a sign you are an objectively bad person. If you complained about Yoda in AOTC nobody called you a alt right. Now, all that is serious shit, for some reason Disney must be defended far more than the actual creator of the series
Like, it’s just a dumb space movie. Mst3k made a full career out of playfully picking apart dumb space movies. Criticising these films have always been a part of it, only now, it’s seen as a sign you are an objectively bad person. If you complained about Yoda in AOTC nobody called you a alt right. Now, all that is serious shit, for some reason Disney must be defended far more than the actual creator of the series
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#Phonepunk#
Banned
Eh not really. All they had to do was get the band back together for one last reunion. Last time we saw everyone was a big happy family at the end of ROTJ. Now they all died alone.
There are a million ways they could have done better. Yes writing a giant blockbuster based on 40 years of mythology is difficult. It should be.
Sadly the worst thing they did was just rehash the OT. The new characters are just Star Wars consumers like us. How much time they spend thinking about and seeking out old characters. It’s main purpose is promoting the Star Wars Brand, which even excites the people in the films themselves, who we see playing with toys, spaceships, action figures, decoder rings, etc. People will point to Ewoks but Rotj looks like Apocalypse Now compares to this Disney TV trash
Props to Disney tho for figuring out if you flatter your audience they will completely ignore your lack of imagination.
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KRAai
Member
well i specifically meant stuff like yoda muppet which i guess is canon and any changes could upset old fans
also i think disney is making it harder than it should be by trying to please everyone
and in the end npobody is really happy with the results
i would prefer disney to give more freedom to someone with some vision that would make some kind of
soft "reboot" which would allow to get rid of some things or fix things that just don't work nowdays
and focus on new set of characters and stories
as it is now there are some ridicolus things from the past that just don't work
also the new characters are all kind of boring
frogx
Member
lol, they should kill everyone xD
olimariOA
Banned
It was horrendous for a multitude of reasons.
1. Separating the characters is newly established relationships is never fun
2. The new characters aren't interesting
3. Beloved characters don't act like they should
3. Cramming in the cornball humor of the prequels made me cringe
4. The narrative is an absolute mess and bricks on every attempted assist by TFA
Riann Johnson put the franchise through a wood chipper for god knows what reason
1. Separating the characters is newly established relationships is never fun
2. The new characters aren't interesting
3. Beloved characters don't act like they should
3. Cramming in the cornball humor of the prequels made me cringe
4. The narrative is an absolute mess and bricks on every attempted assist by TFA
Riann Johnson put the franchise through a wood chipper for god knows what reason
Captain Zyrain
Member
It would be something else if someone prominent actually came out and confirmed this.
Personally.. my dislike/hate of TLJ has faded over the last year. I walked out of the theater not giving a damn about Star Wars.
Though, I actually ended up enjoying the novelization a LOT more than the movie, as it spent more time developing the little things with the characters, explained things so they made sense (Why was Poe's X-wing so fast?), gave some LORE and BACKGROUND to the First Order, and just generally was a better overall story.
I really liked SOLO (and its novelization as well), and the Rebels last season, so those kind of got me a little more back on board.
My best case scenario is that Episode IX is good, and is done in such a way that TLJ isn't really required viewing, and I'll just skip it whenever possible.
kbear
Member
Not a fan save for Kylo. IMO, Rogue One is the best new film in the Star Wars universe. Even has Mads Mikkelsen!
With that said, I still feel like they can redeem the new trilogy if part 3 is absolutely spectacular. There’s no way the powers that be haven’t noticed the overwhelming neckbeard pushback on TLJ so I’ve got some faith.
With that said, I still feel like they can redeem the new trilogy if part 3 is absolutely spectacular. There’s no way the powers that be haven’t noticed the overwhelming neckbeard pushback on TLJ so I’ve got some faith.
Raven117
Member
I actually loved The Last Jedi. For lots of reasons. I like it BECAUSE it is different. It takes chances on its characters and actually makes them interesting. I especially like what happened to Luke and I love (and called) that Rey was just a nobody. Kylo is also a great villain. Not in Vader badassary but in something more grounded and relateable.
Plus, (not going to lie). I love how the Star Wars fandom is collectively losing their shits like the nerds that they are on this. Worst fanbase in the history of fans (including Raider fans).
It takes chances and breaks with tradition (thank gawd) it needed it. Star Wars fans can suck it. Times are changing. And the series will still be huge in spite of their neckbeard aching.
Plus, (not going to lie). I love how the Star Wars fandom is collectively losing their shits like the nerds that they are on this. Worst fanbase in the history of fans (including Raider fans).
It takes chances and breaks with tradition (thank gawd) it needed it. Star Wars fans can suck it. Times are changing. And the series will still be huge in spite of their neckbeard aching.
olimariOA
Banned
Liking is to spite fans doesn't make it a good movie.
If it was called "SPACE BATTLE" the narrative issues and cartoonish humor would still exist.
frogx
Member
Raven117
Member
Its an added bonus. I don't like the movie JUST because it does this. If you actually read my post, you would know this.
Of course there will be....In a cartoonish kind of way (like Vader is).There will never be another Vader, that badassery cannot be reached again
frogx
Member
Wasn't Kylo Ren supposed to be the new Vader.
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Raven117
Member
He is a flawed villain, which makes him interesting to me.
cryptoadam
Banned
TPM isn't that bad actually and is kinda like TFA in the sense that TFA wasn't that bad either. Really all they need to do is fix a few things.
Jar Jar. I get the idea behind the character but the exectuion was wrong. He was hated and the comedy fell flat. He didn't really work in the world and for someone who was supposed to be so important he was dropped very quickly due to backlash. If Jar Jar was turned down about 5 notches he may have worked.
Aniken. I am convinced that Anakin was supposed to be Lukes age in this move, 16-21. Then at the last moment Lucas decided he need that kid money and made him 8 years old. It makes no sense with him as a child, but a lot of sense if he is a young adult. Think about it. Why is he slave? Why does someone need an 8 year old slave. How does an 8 year old build a robot and pod racer? and not only that an 8 year old races in pod races and then even wins. Imagine an 8 year old winning formula 1, heck imagine an 8 year competing in formula 1 that would be the biggest news in history. The love story, which is all sorts of creepy and pedo due to age. Now if Anakin was 18 years old or so it would make sense. Fits in with Luke and American Graffiti. He is a young guy who likes fast cars and fast women. He would be charming in a bad boy/slave way for Padme to actually fall for him(since she is used to the stuff up royal life and secretly hides as a servant which would attract her to slave boy). It would also make more sense why the council would be reluctant to train him(he is to old but apperantly Yoda has a class of 6 year olds light saber training, what????) and why he joins the fight on Naboo. The relationship between Kenobi and Anakin would of been much better since both are the same age trying to get Qui gons attention.
Clean up some stupid medachlorines shit, beef up maul because he was a good villian, and make Kenobi less boring. Oh and also probably need a different director because Lucas cant direct for shit.
frogx
Member
Yea he is a Vader wannabe
olimariOA
Banned
Well, usurping convention doesn't make it good either.
You can like it, but there's still some objectivity in grading the quality of the writing and humor.
Raven117
Member
Meh, Vader is easy, He is badass, but he is not an interesting character. He is just "fuck yeah, lets go" when he is on screen. Kylo actually is a character faults, thoughts, and an arc.Yea he is a Vader wannabe
cryptoadam
Banned
It was kinda boring but fun in a way, but you knew once that helmet came off who was going to be under it. One of the least surprising surprises.
Raven117
Member
It doesn't, but I liked what they did.
Quality of writing and humor?! Effing hahaha. Its Star Wars. All of them (yes, all of them, even Empire), has bad writing and cheeky humor. I literally just watched Empire again this past weekend, and its every bit as goofy, bad writing, some humor that misses, as any of the others. Star Wars fans cant see past their neckbeard to know that all of the Star Wars movies are tongue in cheek and popcorn romps, not some sweeping epic.
frogx
Member
Vader was badass but he was also intimidating without making him look goofy or silly like Kylo Ren.
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#Phonepunk#
Banned
Lando was supposed to be in TLJ but they replaced him w some random cameos. They can’t help but parse out the nostalgia as miserly and cynically as possible.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
Lol at saying Empire was bad or as stupid as this shit. Leigh Brackett was one of the og sci fi authors who INVENTED lightsabers and shit, this is why Lucas went with a real sci fi author for ESB.
For real if you can’t tell the difference in writing, character, and world building, you have no taste. Enjoy the second hand slop from self important film students
For real if you can’t tell the difference in writing, character, and world building, you have no taste. Enjoy the second hand slop from self important film students
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Raven117
Member
Meh, I can't help it.Raven117 seems to mostly be here to be edgy and call people neckbeards. An odd choice but I suppose everyone needs a hobby. I might take him more seriously with a little less ad hominem.
Just too many times, the overreaction of some folks makes my eyes cross and I just can't help picking at them. I will never understand "fans" of anything that tear apart the very things they love until nothing about it can work for them. Criticism is one thing, but to shred it until there is nothing left, is just sad. I do legitimately like TLJ.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
it's because the only thing TLJ has to offer is the feeling of superiority. some people really love feeling superior over others, in that case, this is the movie for them. go knock yourself out.
so yes, call people "fans" with the scare quotes. because you are the real fan. the superior fan. that's what this movie is selling you, your own superiority. you are the better consumer.
so yes, call people "fans" with the scare quotes. because you are the real fan. the superior fan. that's what this movie is selling you, your own superiority. you are the better consumer.