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[decisions]

Overall good, a million times better than TFA, however

Spoiler

Rey not accepting Kylo's offer

really makes the plot fall flat on it's face.

 

[hariseldon]

Meh, I can't help it. Just too many times, the overreaction of some folks makes my eyes cross and I just can't help picking at them. I will never understand "fans" of anything that tear apart the very things they love until nothing about it can work for them. Criticism is one thing, but to shred it until there is nothing left, is just sad. I do legitimately like TLJ.

Depends how you define tearing apart the thing you love. I don't see fans tearing apart the old films, which are the thing they love. I do see a new thing piggy-backing on the love for that old thing, and fans not loving that new thing. I'm sure you can express your views without coming over as smug and condescending so perhaps you could tell us why you love TLJ while avoiding those sins.

From my point of view I will say that it looks beautiful. RJ clearly knows how to make a beautiful-looking film. I appreciate fantastic cinematography (the first film to really blow me away on that front was Leon [aka The Professional] managing to make something as simple as drinking a glass of milk look amazing) and I get that this could perhaps distract people from the other issues, but the big problems in TLJ still exist. I'm a leftie but even I found the preaching at the casino a bit much. Show, don't tell. I'm not too arsed about a female jedi (the common accusation among the smug) but I am arsed about her being too stage-school, with little in the way of emotional range, and the lack of a journey, not a shred of character development through the two films so far.

TFA was too safe, re-watching the prequels has confirmed that for me, and in some ways KOTOR too which I've recently gone back to. Both have shown me that other tales can be told in this massive star wars universe, but TFA played it safe by remaking Star Wars ANH with a vader rip-off, etc. TLJ was trying to be clever, and some of it worked, but frankly it was every bit as clunky as the prequels in many respects, while also shitting all over the characters we've come to love over 40 years. If you do that you've got to have one hell of a pay-off and I'm not convinced it delivered.

So, how about you tell me how TLJ was so good without any name-calling, smugness, condescension or any other irritants? Go on, just for me.

 

[Raven117]

Depends how you define tearing apart the thing you love. I don't see fans tearing apart the old films, which are the thing they love. I do see a new thing piggy-backing on the love for that old thing, and fans not loving that new thing. I'm sure you can express your views without coming over as smug and condescending so perhaps you could tell us why you love TLJ while avoiding those sins.

From my point of view I will say that it looks beautiful. RJ clearly knows how to make a beautiful-looking film. I appreciate fantastic cinematography (the first film to really blow me away on that front was Leon [aka The Professional] managing to make something as simple as drinking a glass of milk look amazing) and I get that this could perhaps distract people from the other issues, but the big problems in TLJ still exist. I'm a leftie but even I found the preaching at the casino a bit much. Show, don't tell. I'm not too arsed about a female jedi (the common accusation among the smug) but I am arsed about her being too stage-school, with little in the way of emotional range, and the lack of a journey, not a shred of character development through the two films so far.

TFA was too safe, re-watching the prequels has confirmed that for me, and in some ways KOTOR too which I've recently gone back to. Both have shown me that other tales can be told in this massive star wars universe, but TFA played it safe by remaking Star Wars ANH with a vader rip-off, etc. TLJ was trying to be clever, and some of it worked, but frankly it was every bit as clunky as the prequels in many respects, while also shitting all over the characters we've come to love over 40 years. If you do that you've got to have one hell of a pay-off and I'm not convinced it delivered.

So, how about you tell me how TLJ was so good without any name-calling, smugness, condescension or any other irritants? Go on, just for me.

As requested, no smugness, condescension, or name-calling.

They should, because the same idiot criticisms they have against all other Star Wars movies apply equally to the original trilogy. I was watching Empire just this past weekend and while I love it, it is just as ham-fisted, goofy as all the others.

With respect to "shitting on the characters" no. It made them human. It made them different. I'm assuming you hated what they did with Luke. I loved it. It made him interesting. The rise to "hero/god" status was too much for him as a now trained Jedi to shoulder. Remember, its not like he was trained very long by Obi-Wan and Yoda. He definitely didn't train enough to be able to teach. His legend became bigger than himself (not unlike the original trilogy). By the end of the movie, he understood what it meant to believe in legends. To believe in his own.

Plus, any time Kylo and Rey were on screen, the movie sizzled. (the actors do a really great job here). There has not been another Star Wars story line like this one. Where both hero and antagonist are lost together in the force, both connected and far apart at the same time. Neither quite understands the importance of their roles. It was great.

Im also pumped that they made Rey's parents a nobody. I hope they keep it that way. It shows that the force is not just a one family saga, but its everywhere and can be with anyone. Plus it unshackles the story from Skywalkers. I guess in the end, I agree with Kylo on this....Let the Past Die.

The casino stuff. Yeah, that gets a big ol' meh, from me.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Kylo Ren is sort of boring to me now. tbh i don't buy the "he's so complex" stuff. the guy has his mask off most of the time, of course he can emote more than Vader did. that was never the point. Vader was a Frankenstein's monster, hence the including of Peter Cushing himself. he was a comic book monster, a black silhouette who appeared out of the smoke, striking fearful poses like in a panel from a comic book. later the tragic backstory elements were played up but at first he was a vision of pure pulp. that famous shot of him reaching out or clutching his first during the Luke fight in Empire is so iconic. one reason i like Rogue One is it follows this pulp comic book thread at the end.

the Force Vision stuff is not very interesting to me. they did that stuff in Empire, 40 years ago, like all the "mindblowing" other force stuff. Vader communicates telepathically with Luke at the end, and before that, Luke reaches out and is heard by Leia, who is so pulled by the force that she turns the ship around as they are escaping, much to Lando's dismay, and swoops in to save the day. the movie starts with Obi Wan communicating to Luke and he's dead. then he show up again, holographically projected on a different planet. yes this has been done before.

TLJ just has them standing around and going "Woah... can you see this?" it is essentially an Unboxing video. on top of that is the unnecessary touch of having Snoke orchestrate this whole thing, which doesn't even need to be there. if these people are so powerful in the force then why do they need someone else to orchestrate something that we've seen weaker force users do before*? just felt like one thing to add on so that the BIG TWIST would be EXTRA SHOCKING.

*by weaker force users i mean Rey is more powerful than Luke. Luke was definitively owned in this movie, at one point smacked in the back of the head by Rey, fighting like a coward.

 

[mad597]

It was a badly edited and badly paced movie. To much jumping around and the time spacing in a lot of the jumps seemed out of whack.

The jesus leigh scene was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen in a movie. Kylo should have been the one to pull the trigger and actually kill her, it would have built his character much better.

With better editing/pacing, removing jesus leigh and having Kylo kill her it would have been a decent movie.

 

[bitbydeath]

I liked the reveal at the end that showed Luke was actually a vampire as the sun kills him. Hopefully the next trilogy will focus more on this mysterious vampire race.

 

[bitbydeath]

Oh and why didn't Luke let Klyo know that he was his father?
The whole 'Nooooo' would have had extra depth when he realises his mother and father are brother and sister.
We all know Han isn't the real father and it could explain a few things as to why he's messed up mentally.

 

[ToughestSoul]

I won't watch the next one, I think that says it all.

 

[hariseldon]

As requested, no smugness, condescension, or name-calling.

They should, because the same idiot criticisms they have against all other Star Wars movies apply equally to the original trilogy. I was watching Empire just this past weekend and while I love it, it is just as ham-fisted, goofy as all the others.

With respect to "shitting on the characters" no. It made them human. It made them different. I'm assuming you hated what they did with Luke. I loved it. It made him interesting. The rise to "hero/god" status was too much for him as a now trained Jedi to shoulder. Remember, its not like he was trained very long by Obi-Wan and Yoda. He definitely didn't train enough to be able to teach. His legend became bigger than himself (not unlike the original trilogy). By the end of the movie, he understood what it meant to believe in legends. To believe in his own.

Plus, any time Kylo and Rey were on screen, the movie sizzled. (the actors do a really great job here). There has not been another Star Wars story line like this one. Where both hero and antagonist are lost together in the force, both connected and far apart at the same time. Neither quite understands the importance of their roles. It was great.

Im also pumped that they made Rey's parents a nobody. I hope they keep it that way. It shows that the force is not just a one family saga, but its everywhere and can be with anyone. Plus it unshackles the story from Skywalkers. I guess in the end, I agree with Kylo on this....Let the Past Die.

The casino stuff. Yeah, that gets a big ol' meh, from me.

Perhaps you could indicate where you find the OT as ham-fisted as the new films. For me, the cool thing about the OT is that the comedy comes from the chemistry among the cast, the gentle ribbing, the tension. We have C3P0 and R2D2 who are the most obviously comedic element but even there there's a certain tension, and scenes like 'let the wookie win' are examples of how people might make a bit of a joke in dark times. I don't really see what you're driving at here and really you've made a very general statement without examples or explanation.

Shitting on characters: Nope, didn't make them human. Personally I'm ok with Luke being in exile after failing the kids, that's reasonably interesting and makes some kind of sense. Not cool with him becoming a shit Yoda, or the milking. The thing at the end with the force hologram or whatever.. I mean that's right up there as narrative devices go with 'it was all a dream'. It's just a weak-ass load of horse-shit, and we all know that Luke, even in a somewhat pissed-off state, if he knew that Han or Leia were in trouble, he'd damn well move mountains to get there and help them.

I'd hardly say that Kylo/Rey sizzled - but then maybe your standards were set by watching 50 shades of grey. As to whether hero and antagonist have been connected but far apart.. hmm Luke and Darth anyone?

Not terribly arsed whether Rey's parents are nobodies or not but honestly we do need SOMETHING to explain the sheer Mary-Sue nature of her character. As to letting the past die, one can do that without shitting on it, and more to the point, one can do it without being obnoxious about it.

 

[Typhares]

https://cosmicbook.news/disney-resetting-star-wars

Following the poor performance and reception of Star Wars: The Last Jedi as well as Han Solo, Disney has placed the movie franchise on hold, and now it is said they are resetting Star Wars and giving fans time to heal.

The news comes as a result of it learned that Disney has now canceled LEGO Star Wars Day, the popular annual event held during the Spring at LEGOLAND California.

In addition, the site reports "an unnamed source at Disney has suggested that the motivation was to refocus expenditure and limit Star Wars exposure to reset the franchise and allow fans to heal."

So that's the legacy of TLJ probably.

 

[hariseldon]

https://cosmicbook.news/disney-resetting-star-wars

So that's the legacy of TLJ probably.

I don't particularly get the impression that the site you've linked is particularly reliable as a source for this kind of thing.

 

[Typhares]

I don't particularly get the impression that the site you've linked is particularly reliable as a source for this kind of thing.

I mean Bob Iger himself said:

he “made the timing decision, and as I look back, I think the mistake that I made — I take the blame — was a little too much, too fast.” But he notes that while we can expect “some slowdown,” Disney certainly isn’t killing off Star Wars.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/20/17882574/disney-ceo-bob-iger-star-wars-franchise-slowdown

Which is corporate speak for 'we fucked up' because strangely enough there is no too much for example for marvel movies.

 

[hariseldon]

I mean Bob Iger himself said:



https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/20/17882574/disney-ceo-bob-iger-star-wars-franchise-slowdown

Which is corporate speak for 'we fucked up' because strangely enough there is no too much for example for marvel movies.

Somewhat better, somewhat more in the way of supporting links! The previous one drew blanks on google, so this is more useful. I would agree that the schedule was a bit much. Much of the excitement around star wars films has been around their scarcity. We had 3 films from 1977 to 1983, so even those were on every 3 years. We then had a fairly long wait til the prequel trilogy which maintained a similar schedule. And now we have a Star Wars film of some kind every year. It loses something. I would also add that reading that page reminded me that the star wars universe is now in the hands of committees and a corporation, no longer one man's vision, and I think that's a bigger loss than people can readily admit. You definitely lose some of the magic that way. I have a feeling that making it a 'franchise' in this way is what will eventually kill star wars if it isn't dead already.

 

[Raven117]

Perhaps you could indicate where you find the OT as ham-fisted as the new films. For me, the cool thing about the OT is that the comedy comes from the chemistry among the cast, the gentle ribbing, the tension. We have C3P0 and R2D2 who are the most obviously comedic element but even there there's a certain tension, and scenes like 'let the wookie win' are examples of how people might make a bit of a joke in dark times. I don't really see what you're driving at here and really you've made a very general statement without examples or explanation.

Shitting on characters: Nope, didn't make them human. Personally I'm ok with Luke being in exile after failing the kids, that's reasonably interesting and makes some kind of sense. Not cool with him becoming a shit Yoda, or the milking. The thing at the end with the force hologram or whatever.. I mean that's right up there as narrative devices go with 'it was all a dream'. It's just a weak-ass load of horse-shit, and we all know that Luke, even in a somewhat pissed-off state, if he knew that Han or Leia were in trouble, he'd damn well move mountains to get there and help them.

I'd hardly say that Kylo/Rey sizzled - but then maybe your standards were set by watching 50 shades of grey. As to whether hero and antagonist have been connected but far apart.. hmm Luke and Darth anyone?

Not terribly arsed whether Rey's parents are nobodies or not but honestly we do need SOMETHING to explain the sheer Mary-Sue nature of her character. As to letting the past die, one can do that without shitting on it, and more to the point, one can do it without being obnoxious about it.

You realize its much harder to say why you like something versus criticizing it, correct? I humored you, and you could not do the same.

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug, To me, the Han/Leia stuff is hammy at best, bad at worst. CSP0 (with that dumb accent)/R2D2 are about as funny as anything in any of the other movies. Luke was never a great character for me. While the neckbearded plastic lightsaber-holding non-showering gutter trash like that character is beyond me. He is one note, and has very little character development. He really is pretty much the same character from the beginning of the trilogy to the end except he can now use a lightsaber. (Except they made him someone in TLJ...he is an analogy for the entire series).

Kylo/Rey is unique. Its a unique story line for Star Wars as both characters are effectively mentorless and lost. Thats not the Darth/Luke situation. Vader (As one poster put it), just a badass pulp comic villain. Which is great, but its all it is.

I could keep going, but I just dont care enough to.

Long and short of all of this is that I have spent too much time discussing this. Its fucking Star Wars, not Citizen Kane. Its a popcorn flick of adventure and sci-fi opera. I love most of them (don't like Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones), but all others are great and I enjoy watching them for what they are. The people that look at this stuff like its some sort of sacred tome make my eyes roll in the back of my head.

I can take comfort in the fact that the series is moving past the nerds who wank it to Luke Skywalker posters and have a "replica" Vader helmet in their Star Wars shrine room of shame and pathetic interests. More power to them I guess. But maybe find a razor and shower.

(Before you get your blaster ready, I don't mean most of that. I just got on a roll. Im glad some folks enjoy the whole Star Wars thing. )

 

[Iorv3th]

I thought the movie was disjointed and boring. None of it made sense when you consider the past movies. Luke had to train to use the force. Rey just magically immediately knows how to use it without any training at all (even though that started with TFA). There is a lack of character development to me.

The all powerful snoke turned out to be a joke that could sense Rey across the galaxy but couldn't sense a light saber moving a few feet away from him.

Then the little kid moving the broom at the end with the force...... to me it just shits all over the canon of the force, it's rarity, and what it takes to master it and use it. Instead we have some 4 year old kid using it just willy nilly to sweep a floor.

Also why was luke even trying to train Kylo and other 'jedi' if he could have just let them be and the force would have just come as naturally as it did to Rey or broom boy?


IMO The movie was shit and it really left a bad taste in my mouth and I currently don't really have any desire to see episode ix because I think disney will just shit all over the past even more.

 

[hariseldon]

Yep, you just couldn't help letting the attitude roll in there could you Raven117 - and for me that shows that you are not worth the expenditure of energy. If you can't discuss something without insulting people then your argument is probably weak. Your hate has led you to the dark side, white knighting for your corporate overlords.

 

[Raven117]

Yep, you just couldn't help letting the attitude roll in there could you Raven117 - and for me that shows that you are not worth the expenditure of energy. If you can't discuss something without insulting people then your argument is probably weak. Your hate has led you to the dark side, white knighting for your corporate overlords.

XOXOXO. You shot first, amigo.

Crush the rebel scum!

And relax man, I was just having some fun. Star Wars is great! I just refuse to elevate to anything more than popcorn adventure space opera that they are. Because now, I can enjoy lots of Star Wars movies. Whereas some folks can only enjoy the OT (or really just Empire).

 

[#Phonepunk#]

And relax man, I was just having some fun. Star Wars is great! I just refuse to elevate to anything more than popcorn adventure space opera that they are. Because now, I can enjoy lots of Star Wars movies. Whereas some folks can only enjoy the OT (or really just Empire).

ok, we get it, you enjoy all the movies. that is great. if someone only enjoys the OT or Empire, that is fine too. why are you pointing this out like it is a problem? don't you see that you are "elevating it" to something more than a popcorn adventure space opera? if people are free to pick and choose, like and dislike, then what is your problem with that?

I just refuse to elevate

this is 100% BS you are repeatedly hammering people for not liking every movie. face it, people have liked and disliked parts of this film series since it's inception. 40 fucking years ago. there were people on the DARPA net complaining about Star Wars. BBS flame wars over it in the 80s.

this is not something new. everyone does not have to like everything. liking more things does not make you superior to everyone, nor do you understand how anyone else sees the movie. get over it.

at this point we aren't even discussing the text itself. just your massive consumer ego.

 

[Raven117]

ok, we get it, you enjoy all the movies. that is great. if someone only enjoys the OT or Empire, that is fine too. why are you pointing this out like it is a problem? don't you see that you are "elevating it" to something more than a popcorn adventure space opera? if people are free to pick and choose, like and dislike, then what is your problem with that?



this is 100% BS you are repeatedly hammering people for not liking every movie. face it, people have liked and disliked parts of this film series since it's inception. 40 fucking years ago. there were people on the DARPA net complaining about Star Wars. BBS flame wars over it in the 80s.

this is not something new. everyone does not have to like everything. liking more things does not make you superior to everyone, nor do you understand how anyone else sees the movie. get over it.

at this point we aren't even discussing the text itself. just your massive consumer ego.

I don't care if nobody likes anything Star Wars. I don't care if they like them all (I don't). I do midly care that some people say I can't like TLJ because its not what they wanted in a Star Wars movie. I GREATLY enjoying picking on people who take it too seriously.

And damn right I am superior. Definitely superior to you rebel scum.

(Yall need to lighten the eff up...Kinda proving my point).

 

[hariseldon]

Insulting everyone and then telling them to lighten up when they react to it. A fucking class act.

 

[Mondai]

Fun, stupid movie.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I couldn't get more than halfway through.

The dialogue and plot were really awkward and it felt like the script was written on Bring Your Child To Work Day.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Then the little kid moving the broom at the end with the force...... to me it just shits all over the canon of the force, it's rarity, and what it takes to master it and use it. Instead we have some 4 year old kid using it just willy nilly to sweep a floor.

the last scene in the film was a kick to the head for me. just the dumbest thing ever. just straight out of a Target commercial. first the kids are playing with a toy Luke then he goes outside and uses the force to clean up.

like if all you have to do is believe, how come none of the other kids could use the force? because he's special, like Rey, like all the other characters we've seen. which shits all over the "it's not who you are" message people claim this film has. how come he hasn't used the force to free himself or his friends? what good is it? the image falls apart when you think about any of it.

when he looks at the little toy ring, now on sale at a Target near you, it nearly made me throw up. the Resistance actually didn't save him the last time they came to his planet. they were busy smashing up a casino and rescuing animals to help him and his fellow child slaves. what is he hoping for, that they will come back? and trash a beauty salon this time?

when you think about it, it's kind of funny, darkly humorous. this enslaved child, buying into the idea that these people will save him one day, these heroes who passed through on the way to doing something more important. i guess starving himself & saving up some food so he can sell it and buy one of those rings must have been worth it. it certainly makes him smile to see that object he bought. let's just forget that our heroes literally have already come to his planet and ignored him in favor of a CGI dog.

 

[Vicetrailia]

I liked the characters, but the movie just sucks.

 

[SaviourMK2]

It was fine. I'd rather watch it over Clone Wars, Force Awakens, and 80% of Revenge of the Sith

 

[Pumpkin Seeds]

I didn't love it or hate it when it came out, but the problems in the movie really grate at you over time.

Looking back at the stuff that didn't make sense, I thought it started to sound like sitcom premises. Then RLM did that video where they compared it to a wacky comedy of errors like European Vacation and it really brought that part home. If you look at it like a comedy then the characters and the decisions make sense. However, it's a Star Wars movie so...

 

[pel1300]

I already made a thread about this but here it goes:

We all know TLJ bombed terribly in China.

Well it also bombed in South Korea....and S. Korea is Disney's biggest market outside of the UK and China.

South Korea SW box office rankings:

The Force Awakens: 25.1 million
Revenge of the Sith: 13 million
The Phantom Menace: 10.6 million
Attack of the Clones: 9.8 million
The Last Jedi: 7.9 million
Rogue One: 7.7 million
Solo: 1.8 million (OUCH.....)

Prices adjusted because in 1999 to 2003...South Korea was still super cheap, almost 3rd world prices. Today, the cost of living has skyrocketed since then. Inflation has been insane in the past decade.

 

[MayauMiao]

Last Jedi was so SO obvious gender and race pandering, it killed what made Star Wars a fun space adventure. What the hell did they think trying to sell us political correctness with their female empowerement Mary Rey Sue, dumbest space chase, time wasting casino planet, and cringy "saving with love".

 

[#Phonepunk#]

a movie so bad it made TFA worse in retrospect

 

[MilkyJoe]

I don't care if nobody likes anything Star Wars. I don't care if they like them all (I don't). I do midly care that some people say I can't like TLJ because its not what they wanted in a Star Wars movie. I GREATLY enjoying picking on people who take it too seriously.

And damn right I am superior. Definitely superior to you rebel scum.

(Yall need to lighten the eff up...Kinda proving my point).

You think that people that loved star wars for 40 years, invested so much time, energy, their money and their love in it, didn't deserve better than what they got? That it was too much to ask for a screen reunion of Han, Luke and Leia? That after all this time, and suffering through the terrible prequels, they didn't deserve something better than the disrespect and killing off of all the major characters? In favour of a cheap laugh and a Twilight-Carry-on cross over in space, that has fucked the entire franchise into a tree?

Kathleen Kennedy promised Lucas that she would respect the characters and the lore, but instead she purposefully destroyed it. All she had to do was commission three more movies that completed the Skywalker saga and then she had everyone's blessing to go do what ever the fuck she wanted, because no one would have cared after that, as long as they got a satisfying ending and three great movies.

People don't need to lighten up. If you don't understand their anger then there is something wrong with your brain. This was a one time opportunity. The decided that one chance was something to be fucked with, and now it's gone. They can't even wipe the fucking thing from canon, or at the very least have a flashback scene, as Carrie is gone. What they have done is unforgivable.

So no, people will not lighten up. The only point you are proving is the one that tells everyone you have no understanding here.

There are 2 types of fan. Real Star Wars fans and people that like the Last Jedi. The Latter are not the former.



P.S. You are wrong, Disney were wrong, Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson were so very wrong and it has cost them dearly. They were given the keys to Fuck Heaven, where all their wildest fantasies would come true, but instead they tossed that key down a drain and had a wank into a discarded sock.

 

[Raven117]

You think that people that loved star wars for 40 years, invested so much time, energy, their money and their love in it, didn't deserve better than what they got? That it was too much to ask for a screen reunion of Han, Luke and Leia? That after all this time, and suffering through the terrible prequels, they didn't deserve something better than the disrespect and killing off of all the major characters? In favour of a cheap laugh and a Twilight-Carry-on cross over in space, that has fucked the entire franchise into a tree?

Kathleen Kennedy promised Lucas that she would respect the characters and the lore, but instead she purposefully destroyed it. All she had to do was commission three more movies that completed the Skywalker saga and then she had everyone's blessing to go do what ever the fuck she wanted, because no one would have cared after that, as long as they got a satisfying ending and three great movies.

People don't need to lighten up. If you don't understand their anger then there is something wrong with your brain. This was a one time opportunity. The decided that one chance was something to be fucked with, and now it's gone. They can't even wipe the fucking thing from canon, or at the very least have a flashback scene, as Carrie is gone. What they have done is unforgivable.

So no, people will not lighten up. The only point you are proving is the one that tells everyone you have no understanding here.

There are 2 types of fan. Real Star Wars fans and people that like the Last Jedi. The Latter are not the former.



P.S. You are wrong, Disney were wrong, Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson were so very wrong and it has cost them dearly. They were given the keys to Fuck Heaven, where all their wildest fantasies would come true, but instead they tossed that key down a drain and had a wank into a discarded sock.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA.

 

[Days like these...]

You think that people that loved star wars for 40 years, invested so much time, energy, their money and their love in it, didn't deserve better than what they got? That it was too much to ask for a screen reunion of Han, Luke and Leia? That after all this time, and suffering through the terrible prequels, they didn't deserve something better than the disrespect and killing off of all the major characters? In favour of a cheap laugh and a Twilight-Carry-on cross over in space, that has fucked the entire franchise into a tree?

Kathleen Kennedy promised Lucas that she would respect the characters and the lore, but instead she purposefully destroyed it. All she had to do was commission three more movies that completed the Skywalker saga and then she had everyone's blessing to go do what ever the fuck she wanted, because no one would have cared after that, as long as they got a satisfying ending and three great movies.

People don't need to lighten up. If you don't understand their anger then there is something wrong with your brain. This was a one time opportunity. The decided that one chance was something to be fucked with, and now it's gone. They can't even wipe the fucking thing from canon, or at the very least have a flashback scene, as Carrie is gone. What they have done is unforgivable.

So no, people will not lighten up. The only point you are proving is the one that tells everyone you have no understanding here.

There are 2 types of fan. Real Star Wars fans and people that like the Last Jedi. The Latter are not the former.



P.S. You are wrong, Disney were wrong, Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson were so very wrong and it has cost them dearly. They were given the keys to Fuck Heaven, where all their wildest fantasies would come true, but instead they tossed that key down a drain and had a wank into a discarded sock.

This brought a tear to my eye. Bravo! Couldn't agree more. I honestly think that only people who weren't fans, trolls and people who can't accept it was a bad film are the ones that really like this.

 

[Days like these...]

BWHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA.

Nice comeback troll

 

[MilkyJoe]

BWHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA.

Am I allowed to call him a cunt, mods?

 

[Raven117]

Nice comeback troll

Im not really trolling. Look, I get that people get wrapped up into hobbies and can be disappointed with how things turned out. But like anything, some perspective is important. I know "its the internet" and its hard to get people's context, tone, and everything else. But reading some folks posts about Star Wars just sound like immature temper tantrums. I'm sorry the movie didn't deliver the way you wanted it to. But...its a movie. A MOVIE. I wont tell you how to live your life, but maybe not put so much stock into pop culture.

 

[Raven117]

Am I allowed to call him a cunt, mods?

Don't go running to the mods. This is between us. Look at my post above. What I'm really driving at (and it has little to do with Star Wars) are the contours of being a fan. Why folks put so much stock into pop culture. Why they felt betrayed by a movie (or anything else that fans don't like). While perhaps Im being a hair too antagonistic, I am trying to make a point from the other side of it all.

 

[Days like these...]

Im not really trolling. Look, I get that people get wrapped up into hobbies and can be disappointed with how things turned out. But like anything, some perspective is important. I know "its the internet" and its hard to get people's context, tone, and everything else. But reading some folks posts about Star Wars just sound like immature temper tantrums. I'm sorry the movie didn't deliver the way you wanted it to. But...its a movie. A MOVIE. I wont tell you how to live your life, but maybe not put so much stock into pop culture.

I don't see you trolling those fans who tirelessly defend TLJ and Rian Johnson. Those fans who claim the film is infallible. Whether you like the film or not it had major problems. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Those fans are just as invested if not more so, yet they get a pass from you. Why don't you tell them to get a life instead of spending every waking hours defending such a bad film?

 

[#Phonepunk#]

It’s amazing that Rian Johnson put the Canto Bight scene in the movie at all. That was the point where I realized this guy is making a trilogy and he thinks THIS deserves to be in a movie? lol three more movies from this fool?

Lol ok no thanks keep that shit on Disney tv where it belongs

 

[MilkyJoe]

Don't go running to the mods. This is between us. Look at my post above. What I'm really driving at (and it has little to do with Star Wars) are the contours of being a fan. Why folks put so much stock into pop culture. Why they felt betrayed by a movie (or anything else that fans don't like). While perhaps Im being a hair too antagonistic, I am trying to make a point from the other side of it all.

There is no other side. You don't understand because you probably don't love anything like some people love certain things. Star Wars isn't just a movie to people, it's their childhood, memories with their parents, a safety net, familiarity. There's very little else like it in modern pop culture.

 

[Raven117]

I don't see you trolling those fans who tirelessly defend TLJ and Rian Johnson. Those fans who claim the film is infallible. Whether you like the film or not. It had major problems. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Those fans are just as invested if not more so, yet they get a pass from you. Why don't you tell them to get a life instead of spending every waking hours defending such a bad film?

I would if they ever show up on here (to use Milky's phrase, Im an equally opportunity "cunt."). That said, the folks that defend TLJ are a much smaller segment than the ones who said it pissed on their childhood (more on that below).

There is no other side. You don't understand because you probably don't love anything like some people love certain things. Star Wars isn't just a movie to people, it's their childhood, memories with their parents, a safety net, familiarity. There's very little else like it in modern pop culture.

This is a good post and something worth discussing. Lets assume your premise is true. Star Wars is more than a movie, but childhood, memories with parents, safety net, and familiarity. If this is true, why does a modern movie betray all of those things that are solely rooted in the past (and nostalgia). Can you not just say (like I do for the most part, even though I like TFA and TLJ...just like) "The old ones are great, the new ones are a bit disappointing" and then move on down the road?

Does such vocal criticism affect change to what happened? Will it affect things in the future? (Maybe it does). Does it bring you happiness or enjoy to be so involved in a piece of pop culture (and it is....while you have attached meaning to it, it is still just a flick) that upon one direction it can send you into a realm of disappointment and anger that would allow some asshole like me to poke fun at?

 

[PrCat88]

I think it's a piece of shit.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I would if they ever show up on here (to use Milky's phrase, Im an equally opportunity "cunt."). That said, the folks that defend TLJ are a much smaller segment than the ones who said it pissed on their childhood (more on that below).

This is a good post and something worth discussing. Lets assume your premise is true. Star Wars is more than a movie, but childhood, memories with parents, safety net, and familiarity. If this is true, why does a modern movie betray all of those things that are solely rooted in the past (and nostalgia). Can you not just say (like I do for the most part, even though I like TFA and TLJ...just like) "The old ones are great, the new ones are a bit disappointing" and then move on down the road?

Does such vocal criticism affect change to what happened? Will it affect things in the future? (Maybe it does). Does it bring you happiness or enjoy to be so involved in a piece of pop culture (and it is....while you have attached meaning to it, it is still just a flick) that upon one direction it can send you into a realm of disappointment and anger that would allow some asshole like me to poke fun at?

Cause now we are stuck in the realms of what could have been. Which can be a very dark place. Add a sprinkle of "how could they" and you have a recipe for very bad things. Much like Disney is currently experiencing with the franchise. 4 billion outlay, 2 billion clawed back, minus the cost of building a theme park (a fucking lot of money) and the prospect of people disliking what you have done so badly that you have to wrap it up, suck up the losses and put it on ice for long enough time for people to give a shit again.

 

[Raven117]

Cause now we are stuck in the realms of what could have been. Which can be a very dark place. Add a sprinkle of "how could they" and you have a recipe for very bad things. Much like Disney is currently experiencing with the franchise. 4 billion outlay, 2 billion clawed back, minus the cost of building a theme park (a fucking lot of money) and the prospect of people disliking what you have done so badly that you have to wrap it up, suck up the losses and put it on ice for long enough time for people to give a shit again.

But that has nothing to do with your childhood. Your memories, parents, safety net, etc.

Is it you just want a continuation of your child passion and they screwed it up? (And it’s obvious that regardless of whether the movie is bad, okay, or good, fan reactions are not positive and that is critical component on being “pop culture.”

 

[MilkyJoe]

But that has nothing to do with your childhood. Your memories, parents, safety net, etc.

Is it you just want a continuation of your child passion and they screwed it up? (And it’s obvious that regardless of whether the movie is bad, okay, or good, fan reactions are not positive and that is critical component on being “pop culture.”

The movies are deeply embedded, people feel like the disrespectful treatment of the characters are a personal insult. I cannot express how angry I was that Admiral Akbar was killed off, without the slightest acknowledgement, like some Star Trek away team security ensign.

 

[Raven117]

The movies are deeply embedded, people feel like the disrespectful treatment of the characters are a personal insult. I cannot express how angry I was that Admiral Akbar was killed off, without the slightest acknowledgement, like some Star Trek away team security ensign.

But its not personal. It has nothing to do with you. (Look, I know people get into stuff...same with watching your favorite sports team). I just fail to see how anyone can get so worked up so upset even personally insulted over something that has nothing to do with them.

A corporation effed up a movie. Big deal...the old ones are still there, enjoy those. Bad for the company, disappointing for the fans, and move on?

 

[MilkyJoe]

But its not personal. It has nothing to do with you. (Look, I know people get into stuff...same with watching your favorite sports team). I just fail to see how anyone can get so worked up so upset even personally insulted over something that has nothing to do with them.

A corporation effed up a movie. Big deal...the old ones are still there, enjoy those. Bad for the company, disappointing for the fans, and move on?

Of course, but when the company responds with "we don't owe you anything" and "suck it man babies" they make it personal.

 

[pel1300]

But its not personal. It has nothing to do with you. (Look, I know people get into stuff...same with watching your favorite sports team). I just fail to see how anyone can get so worked up so upset even personally insulted over something that has nothing to do with them.

A corporation effed up a movie. Big deal...the old ones are still there, enjoy those. Bad for the company, disappointing for the fans, and move on?

You don't get it. Lucafilm without George promised us something and didn't deliver. They lied to George's face and ours.

And they did it in favor of bringing in a new audience that had no interest in Star Wars.

It backfired hard on them.. Asian audiences hate Rose.

Kennedy had creative differences with everyone except Rian Johnson, who turned out to be a meek nerdy male feminist who doesn't understand the original Star Wars trilogy. Please tell me you aren't dumb enough to believe that Rian understands Star Wars given what we know now

 

[#Phonepunk#]

what upsets me the most is when people insist Finn has to have the story arc in this movie, he has to prove himself all over again. it's the biggest bullshit that overlooked how short-changed he has been.

the previous movie he helped the heroes take down the Starkiller Base. he was essential to a mission that was 10x more important than the Death Star run that made Luke a hero. and he is considered a hero, at first, with Rose gushing over him like a Taylor Swift fan at one of her concerts. then for some reason she changes her mind and tases him. then we have to go along while he is dragged into this random sidequest, her constantly questioning him.

it's like, who the fuck is this girl to question him? he was part of an essential mission to take down the bad guys in the climax of the last film. did everyone just forget everything that happened more than 15 minutes ago? he sacrificed himself, he put his body on the line, he fought the leader of the First Order in hand to hand combat, a noble sacrifice that put him in a coma. furthermore he is leaving to try and find Rey, also a hero due to the very same mission from the last film, who is on an all-important mission to find Luke another hero, and the brother of the General. if that isn't a mission for the Resistance i don't know what is.

why is any of this suspicious? why is Rey not accused of being a coward? Finn doesn't even get a purple heart, he gets sent to the back of the line. an ex-stormtrooper who was taken from his family and forced into service has to learn about slavery from visiting a casino and watching some dipshit chimney sweep kids that they don't even save. it's beyond stupid.

 

[MilkyJoe]

what upsets me the most is when people insist Finn has to have the story arc in this movie, he has to prove himself all over again. it's the biggest bullshit that overlooked how short-changed he has been.

the previous movie he helped the heroes take down the Starkiller Base. he was essential to a mission that was 10x more important than the Death Star run that made Luke a hero. and he is considered a hero, at first, with Rose gushing over him like a Taylor Swift fan at one of her concerts. then for some reason she changes her mind and tases him. then we have to go along while he is dragged into this random sidequest, her constantly questioning him.

it's like, who the fuck is this girl to question him? he was part of an essential mission to take down the bad guys in the climax of the last film. did everyone just forget everything that happened more than 15 minutes ago? he sacrificed himself, he put his body on the line, he fought the leader of the First Order in hand to hand combat, a noble sacrifice that put him in a coma. furthermore he is leaving to try and find Rey, also a hero due to the very same mission from the last film, who is on an all-important mission to find Luke.

why is any of this suspicious? why is Rey not accused of being a coward? Finn doesn't even get a purple heart, he gets sent to the back of the line. an ex-stormtrooper who was taken from his family and forced into service has to learn about slavery from visiting a casino and watching some dipshit chimney sweep kids that they don't even save. it's beyond stupid.

Finn's arc was fulfilled in TFA, he wasn't even planned to be in TLJ. He should have died a hero in that movie.

 

[hariseldon]

So just to confirm, if we dislike something the right thing to do is to shut up about it. Excellent plan.