Meh, I can't help it. Just too many times, the overreaction of some folks makes my eyes cross and I just can't help picking at them. I will never understand "fans" of anything that tear apart the very things they love until nothing about it can work for them. Criticism is one thing, but to shred it until there is nothing left, is just sad. I do legitimately like TLJ.
As requested, no smugness, condescension, or name-calling.Depends how you define tearing apart the thing you love. I don't see fans tearing apart the old films, which are the thing they love. I do see a new thing piggy-backing on the love for that old thing, and fans not loving that new thing. I'm sure you can express your views without coming over as smug and condescending so perhaps you could tell us why you love TLJ while avoiding those sins.
From my point of view I will say that it looks beautiful. RJ clearly knows how to make a beautiful-looking film. I appreciate fantastic cinematography (the first film to really blow me away on that front was Leon [aka The Professional] managing to make something as simple as drinking a glass of milk look amazing) and I get that this could perhaps distract people from the other issues, but the big problems in TLJ still exist. I'm a leftie but even I found the preaching at the casino a bit much. Show, don't tell. I'm not too arsed about a female jedi (the common accusation among the smug) but I am arsed about her being too stage-school, with little in the way of emotional range, and the lack of a journey, not a shred of character development through the two films so far.
TFA was too safe, re-watching the prequels has confirmed that for me, and in some ways KOTOR too which I've recently gone back to. Both have shown me that other tales can be told in this massive star wars universe, but TFA played it safe by remaking Star Wars ANH with a vader rip-off, etc. TLJ was trying to be clever, and some of it worked, but frankly it was every bit as clunky as the prequels in many respects, while also shitting all over the characters we've come to love over 40 years. If you do that you've got to have one hell of a pay-off and I'm not convinced it delivered.
So, how about you tell me how TLJ was so good without any name-calling, smugness, condescension or any other irritants? Go on, just for me.
As requested, no smugness, condescension, or name-calling.
They should, because the same idiot criticisms they have against all other Star Wars movies apply equally to the original trilogy. I was watching Empire just this past weekend and while I love it, it is just as ham-fisted, goofy as all the others.
With respect to "shitting on the characters" no. It made them human. It made them different. I'm assuming you hated what they did with Luke. I loved it. It made him interesting. The rise to "hero/god" status was too much for him as a now trained Jedi to shoulder. Remember, its not like he was trained very long by Obi-Wan and Yoda. He definitely didn't train enough to be able to teach. His legend became bigger than himself (not unlike the original trilogy). By the end of the movie, he understood what it meant to believe in legends. To believe in his own.
Plus, any time Kylo and Rey were on screen, the movie sizzled. (the actors do a really great job here). There has not been another Star Wars story line like this one. Where both hero and antagonist are lost together in the force, both connected and far apart at the same time. Neither quite understands the importance of their roles. It was great.
Im also pumped that they made Rey's parents a nobody. I hope they keep it that way. It shows that the force is not just a one family saga, but its everywhere and can be with anyone. Plus it unshackles the story from Skywalkers. I guess in the end, I agree with Kylo on this....Let the Past Die.
The casino stuff. Yeah, that gets a big ol' meh, from me.
Following the poor performance and reception of Star Wars: The Last Jedi as well as Han Solo, Disney has placed the movie franchise on hold, and now it is said they are resetting Star Wars and giving fans time to heal.
The news comes as a result of it learned that Disney has now canceled LEGO Star Wars Day, the popular annual event held during the Spring at LEGOLAND California.
In addition, the site reports "an unnamed source at Disney has suggested that the motivation was to refocus expenditure and limit Star Wars exposure to reset the franchise and allow fans to heal."
I don't particularly get the impression that the site you've linked is particularly reliable as a source for this kind of thing.
he “made the timing decision, and as I look back, I think the mistake that I made — I take the blame — was a little too much, too fast.” But he notes that while we can expect “some slowdown,” Disney certainly isn’t killing off Star Wars.
I mean Bob Iger himself said:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/20/17882574/disney-ceo-bob-iger-star-wars-franchise-slowdown
Which is corporate speak for 'we fucked up' because strangely enough there is no too much for example for marvel movies.
You realize its much harder to say why you like something versus criticizing it, correct? I humored you, and you could not do the same.Perhaps you could indicate where you find the OT as ham-fisted as the new films. For me, the cool thing about the OT is that the comedy comes from the chemistry among the cast, the gentle ribbing, the tension. We have C3P0 and R2D2 who are the most obviously comedic element but even there there's a certain tension, and scenes like 'let the wookie win' are examples of how people might make a bit of a joke in dark times. I don't really see what you're driving at here and really you've made a very general statement without examples or explanation.
Shitting on characters: Nope, didn't make them human. Personally I'm ok with Luke being in exile after failing the kids, that's reasonably interesting and makes some kind of sense. Not cool with him becoming a shit Yoda, or the milking. The thing at the end with the force hologram or whatever.. I mean that's right up there as narrative devices go with 'it was all a dream'. It's just a weak-ass load of horse-shit, and we all know that Luke, even in a somewhat pissed-off state, if he knew that Han or Leia were in trouble, he'd damn well move mountains to get there and help them.
I'd hardly say that Kylo/Rey sizzled - but then maybe your standards were set by watching 50 shades of grey. As to whether hero and antagonist have been connected but far apart.. hmm Luke and Darth anyone?
Not terribly arsed whether Rey's parents are nobodies or not but honestly we do need SOMETHING to explain the sheer Mary-Sue nature of her character. As to letting the past die, one can do that without shitting on it, and more to the point, one can do it without being obnoxious about it.
XOXOXO. You shot first, amigo.Yep, you just couldn't help letting the attitude roll in there could you Raven117 - and for me that shows that you are not worth the expenditure of energy. If you can't discuss something without insulting people then your argument is probably weak. Your hate has led you to the dark side, white knighting for your corporate overlords.
And relax man, I was just having some fun. Star Wars is great! I just refuse to elevate to anything more than popcorn adventure space opera that they are. Because now, I can enjoy lots of Star Wars movies. Whereas some folks can only enjoy the OT (or really just Empire).
I just refuse to elevate
I don't care if nobody likes anything Star Wars. I don't care if they like them all (I don't). I do midly care that some people say I can't like TLJ because its not what they wanted in a Star Wars movie. I GREATLY enjoying picking on people who take it too seriously.ok, we get it, you enjoy all the movies. that is great. if someone only enjoys the OT or Empire, that is fine too. why are you pointing this out like it is a problem? don't you see that you are "elevating it" to something more than a popcorn adventure space opera? if people are free to pick and choose, like and dislike, then what is your problem with that?
this is 100% BS you are repeatedly hammering people for not liking every movie. face it, people have liked and disliked parts of this film series since it's inception. 40 fucking years ago. there were people on the DARPA net complaining about Star Wars. BBS flame wars over it in the 80s.
this is not something new. everyone does not have to like everything. liking more things does not make you superior to everyone, nor do you understand how anyone else sees the movie. get over it.
at this point we aren't even discussing the text itself. just your massive consumer ego.
Then the little kid moving the broom at the end with the force...... to me it just shits all over the canon of the force, it's rarity, and what it takes to master it and use it. Instead we have some 4 year old kid using it just willy nilly to sweep a floor.
I don't care if nobody likes anything Star Wars. I don't care if they like them all (I don't). I do midly care that some people say I can't like TLJ because its not what they wanted in a Star Wars movie. I GREATLY enjoying picking on people who take it too seriously.
And damn right I am superior. Definitely superior to you rebel scum.
(Yall need to lighten the eff up...Kinda proving my point).
BWHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA.You think that people that loved star wars for 40 years, invested so much time, energy, their money and their love in it, didn't deserve better than what they got? That it was too much to ask for a screen reunion of Han, Luke and Leia? That after all this time, and suffering through the terrible prequels, they didn't deserve something better than the disrespect and killing off of all the major characters? In favour of a cheap laugh and a Twilight-Carry-on cross over in space, that has fucked the entire franchise into a tree?
Kathleen Kennedy promised Lucas that she would respect the characters and the lore, but instead she purposefully destroyed it. All she had to do was commission three more movies that completed the Skywalker saga and then she had everyone's blessing to go do what ever the fuck she wanted, because no one would have cared after that, as long as they got a satisfying ending and three great movies.
People don't need to lighten up. If you don't understand their anger then there is something wrong with your brain. This was a one time opportunity. The decided that one chance was something to be fucked with, and now it's gone. They can't even wipe the fucking thing from canon, or at the very least have a flashback scene, as Carrie is gone. What they have done is unforgivable.
So no, people will not lighten up. The only point you are proving is the one that tells everyone you have no understanding here.
There are 2 types of fan. Real Star Wars fans and people that like the Last Jedi. The Latter are not the former.
P.S. You are wrong, Disney were wrong, Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson were so very wrong and it has cost them dearly. They were given the keys to Fuck Heaven, where all their wildest fantasies would come true, but instead they tossed that key down a drain and had a wank into a discarded sock.
You think that people that loved star wars for 40 years, invested so much time, energy, their money and their love in it, didn't deserve better than what they got? That it was too much to ask for a screen reunion of Han, Luke and Leia? That after all this time, and suffering through the terrible prequels, they didn't deserve something better than the disrespect and killing off of all the major characters? In favour of a cheap laugh and a Twilight-Carry-on cross over in space, that has fucked the entire franchise into a tree?
Kathleen Kennedy promised Lucas that she would respect the characters and the lore, but instead she purposefully destroyed it. All she had to do was commission three more movies that completed the Skywalker saga and then she had everyone's blessing to go do what ever the fuck she wanted, because no one would have cared after that, as long as they got a satisfying ending and three great movies.
People don't need to lighten up. If you don't understand their anger then there is something wrong with your brain. This was a one time opportunity. The decided that one chance was something to be fucked with, and now it's gone. They can't even wipe the fucking thing from canon, or at the very least have a flashback scene, as Carrie is gone. What they have done is unforgivable.
So no, people will not lighten up. The only point you are proving is the one that tells everyone you have no understanding here.
There are 2 types of fan. Real Star Wars fans and people that like the Last Jedi. The Latter are not the former.
P.S. You are wrong, Disney were wrong, Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson were so very wrong and it has cost them dearly. They were given the keys to Fuck Heaven, where all their wildest fantasies would come true, but instead they tossed that key down a drain and had a wank into a discarded sock.
Nice comeback trollBWHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA.
BWHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA.
Im not really trolling. Look, I get that people get wrapped up into hobbies and can be disappointed with how things turned out. But like anything, some perspective is important. I know "its the internet" and its hard to get people's context, tone, and everything else. But reading some folks posts about Star Wars just sound like immature temper tantrums. I'm sorry the movie didn't deliver the way you wanted it to. But...its a movie. A MOVIE. I wont tell you how to live your life, but maybe not put so much stock into pop culture.Nice comeback troll
Don't go running to the mods. This is between us. Look at my post above. What I'm really driving at (and it has little to do with Star Wars) are the contours of being a fan. Why folks put so much stock into pop culture. Why they felt betrayed by a movie (or anything else that fans don't like). While perhaps Im being a hair too antagonistic, I am trying to make a point from the other side of it all.Am I allowed to call him a cunt, mods?
Im not really trolling. Look, I get that people get wrapped up into hobbies and can be disappointed with how things turned out. But like anything, some perspective is important. I know "its the internet" and its hard to get people's context, tone, and everything else. But reading some folks posts about Star Wars just sound like immature temper tantrums. I'm sorry the movie didn't deliver the way you wanted it to. But...its a movie. A MOVIE. I wont tell you how to live your life, but maybe not put so much stock into pop culture.
Don't go running to the mods. This is between us. Look at my post above. What I'm really driving at (and it has little to do with Star Wars) are the contours of being a fan. Why folks put so much stock into pop culture. Why they felt betrayed by a movie (or anything else that fans don't like). While perhaps Im being a hair too antagonistic, I am trying to make a point from the other side of it all.
I would if they ever show up on here (to use Milky's phrase, Im an equally opportunity "cunt."). That said, the folks that defend TLJ are a much smaller segment than the ones who said it pissed on their childhood (more on that below).I don't see you trolling those fans who tirelessly defend TLJ and Rian Johnson. Those fans who claim the film is infallible. Whether you like the film or not. It had major problems. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Those fans are just as invested if not more so, yet they get a pass from you. Why don't you tell them to get a life instead of spending every waking hours defending such a bad film?
This is a good post and something worth discussing. Lets assume your premise is true. Star Wars is more than a movie, but childhood, memories with parents, safety net, and familiarity. If this is true, why does a modern movie betray all of those things that are solely rooted in the past (and nostalgia). Can you not just say (like I do for the most part, even though I like TFA and TLJ...just like) "The old ones are great, the new ones are a bit disappointing" and then move on down the road?There is no other side. You don't understand because you probably don't love anything like some people love certain things. Star Wars isn't just a movie to people, it's their childhood, memories with their parents, a safety net, familiarity. There's very little else like it in modern pop culture.
I would if they ever show up on here (to use Milky's phrase, Im an equally opportunity "cunt."). That said, the folks that defend TLJ are a much smaller segment than the ones who said it pissed on their childhood (more on that below).
This is a good post and something worth discussing. Lets assume your premise is true. Star Wars is more than a movie, but childhood, memories with parents, safety net, and familiarity. If this is true, why does a modern movie betray all of those things that are solely rooted in the past (and nostalgia). Can you not just say (like I do for the most part, even though I like TFA and TLJ...just like) "The old ones are great, the new ones are a bit disappointing" and then move on down the road?
Does such vocal criticism affect change to what happened? Will it affect things in the future? (Maybe it does). Does it bring you happiness or enjoy to be so involved in a piece of pop culture (and it is....while you have attached meaning to it, it is still just a flick) that upon one direction it can send you into a realm of disappointment and anger that would allow some asshole like me to poke fun at?
But that has nothing to do with your childhood. Your memories, parents, safety net, etc.Cause now we are stuck in the realms of what could have been. Which can be a very dark place. Add a sprinkle of "how could they" and you have a recipe for very bad things. Much like Disney is currently experiencing with the franchise. 4 billion outlay, 2 billion clawed back, minus the cost of building a theme park (a fucking lot of money) and the prospect of people disliking what you have done so badly that you have to wrap it up, suck up the losses and put it on ice for long enough time for people to give a shit again.
But that has nothing to do with your childhood. Your memories, parents, safety net, etc.
Is it you just want a continuation of your child passion and they screwed it up? (And it’s obvious that regardless of whether the movie is bad, okay, or good, fan reactions are not positive and that is critical component on being “pop culture.”
But its not personal. It has nothing to do with you. (Look, I know people get into stuff...same with watching your favorite sports team). I just fail to see how anyone can get so worked up so upset even personally insulted over something that has nothing to do with them.The movies are deeply embedded, people feel like the disrespectful treatment of the characters are a personal insult. I cannot express how angry I was that Admiral Akbar was killed off, without the slightest acknowledgement, like some Star Trek away team security ensign.
But its not personal. It has nothing to do with you. (Look, I know people get into stuff...same with watching your favorite sports team). I just fail to see how anyone can get so worked up so upset even personally insulted over something that has nothing to do with them.
A corporation effed up a movie. Big deal...the old ones are still there, enjoy those. Bad for the company, disappointing for the fans, and move on?
You don't get it. Lucafilm without George promised us something and didn't deliver. They lied to George's face and ours.But its not personal. It has nothing to do with you. (Look, I know people get into stuff...same with watching your favorite sports team). I just fail to see how anyone can get so worked up so upset even personally insulted over something that has nothing to do with them.
A corporation effed up a movie. Big deal...the old ones are still there, enjoy those. Bad for the company, disappointing for the fans, and move on?
what upsets me the most is when people insist Finn has to have the story arc in this movie, he has to prove himself all over again. it's the biggest bullshit that overlooked how short-changed he has been.
the previous movie he helped the heroes take down the Starkiller Base. he was essential to a mission that was 10x more important than the Death Star run that made Luke a hero. and he is considered a hero, at first, with Rose gushing over him like a Taylor Swift fan at one of her concerts. then for some reason she changes her mind and tases him. then we have to go along while he is dragged into this random sidequest, her constantly questioning him.
it's like, who the fuck is this girl to question him? he was part of an essential mission to take down the bad guys in the climax of the last film. did everyone just forget everything that happened more than 15 minutes ago? he sacrificed himself, he put his body on the line, he fought the leader of the First Order in hand to hand combat, a noble sacrifice that put him in a coma. furthermore he is leaving to try and find Rey, also a hero due to the very same mission from the last film, who is on an all-important mission to find Luke.
why is any of this suspicious? why is Rey not accused of being a coward? Finn doesn't even get a purple heart, he gets sent to the back of the line. an ex-stormtrooper who was taken from his family and forced into service has to learn about slavery from visiting a casino and watching some dipshit chimney sweep kids that they don't even save. it's beyond stupid.