-san
Sempei
Sensai
-chan
-kun
Etc
Ect
I'm playing Persona 4 The Golden and I see a whole bunch of honorifics and I really don't know what to think of them. Do some show who is inherently the leader? Are they gender specific? Can one go from a -San to a -kun? Sometimes the honorific seems given out of respect, other times it's almost done to mock the person. I'd love to know more.
I know I could google all this but I thought I would get more subtle and specific answers asking GAF.
Ignore them, they have no place in a proper english localisation. Op-kun.
San (さん [saɴ]?) (sometimes pronounced han (はん?) in Kansai dialect), derived from sama (see below), is the most commonplace honorific, and is a title of respect typically used between equals of any age. Although the closest analog in English are the honorifics "Mr.", "Miss", "Ms.", or "Mrs.", -san is almost universally added to a person's name, -san can be used in both formal and informal contexts, and for any gender. Because it is the most common honorific, it is also the most often used to convert common nouns into proper ones, as seen below.
Sama (様 【さま】 [sama]?) is a markedly more respectful version of san and can be used for any gender. It is used mainly to refer to people much higher in rank than oneself, toward one's guests or customers (such as a sports venue announcer addressing members of the audience), and sometimes toward people one greatly admires.
Kun (君【くん】 [kuɴ]?) is used by people of senior status in addressing or referring to those of junior status, or by anyone when addressing or referring to male children or male teenagers, or among male friends. It can also be used by females when addressing a male that they are emotionally attached to or have known for a long period of time[citation needed]. Although kun is generally used for boys, it is not a hard rule. For example, kun can be used to name a close personal friend or family member of any gender. Also, in business settings, young female employees also are addressed as kun by older males of senior status. It can also be used by male teachers addressing their female students.
Chan (ちゃん [t͡ɕaɴ]?) is a diminutive suffix; it expresses that the speaker finds a person endearing. In general, chan is used for babies, young children, grandparents and teenagers. It may also be used towards cute animals, lovers, close friends, any youthful woman, or between friends. Using chan with a superior's name is considered to be condescending and rude.
Senpai (先輩 【せんぱい】 [sɛmpaɪ]?) is used to address or refer to one's senior colleagues (respected colleagues) in a school, dojo, or sports club. So at school, the students in higher grades than oneself are senpai. Teachers are not senpai. Neither are students of the same or lower grade: they are referred to as kōhai. In a business environment, colleagues with more experience are senpai, but one's boss is not a senpai. In the same manner as English titles such as "doctor" or "professor", senpai can be used by itself as well as with a name.
Sensei (先生 【せんせい】 [sɛnseɪ]?) (literally meaning "former-born") is used to refer to or address teachers, doctors, politicians, lawyers, and other authority figures. It is used to show respect to someone who has achieved a certain level of mastery in an art form or some other skill, and is also applied to novelists, poets, painters, and other artists[citation needed]. In Japanese martial arts, sensei typically refers to someone who is the head of a dojo.
Dropping the honorific suffix when referring to one's interlocutor, which is known as to yobisute (呼び捨て?), implies a high degree of intimacy and is generally reserved for one's spouse, younger family members, social inferiors (as in a teacher addressing students in traditional arts), and very close friends. Within sports teams or among classmates, where the interlocutors approximately have the same age or seniority, it can also be acceptable to use family names without honorifics. Some people in the younger generation (roughly "born since 1970") prefer to be referred to without an honorific, however, and drop honorifics as a sign of informality even with casual acquaintances.
Ignore them, they have no place in a proper english localisation. Op-kun.
Because the games are so Japanese and so immersed in that stuff that you can't remove them.
There isn't a translation, really, of say, -Chi, or -Tan, or even -Kun/Chan. So you either leave them in or you remove them entirely and hope the lines still make sense without them.
Besides, it adds to the charm of Atlus games.
Ignore them, they have no place in a proper english localisation.
I was following well enough and then you threw in two new ones. What are -chi and -tan for then? I don't think I've ever seen those in the Persona games.
Because the games are so Japanese and so immersed in that stuff that you can't remove them.
There isn't a translation, really, of say, -Chi, or -Tan, or even -Kun/Chan. So you either leave them in or you remove them entirely and hope the lines still make sense without them.
Besides, it adds to the charm of Atlus games.
What's the "desk" honorific?
Like "my waifu-desk"
In Japanese you can attach pretty much anything to someone's name.-tan is in P3: Junpei calls Yukari "Yuka-tan." According to my dictionary, "(cute) suffix for a familiar person." Not getting a hit in it for "-chi."
They're inconsistent within Persona 4 even. Keep senpai but change oniichan to big bro? Yosuke calls Yukiko by her last name, with no honorific, in the Japanese version, but calls her Yukiko-san in the English version? yare yare da zeExcept Atlus themselves are inconsistent. SMTIV and Soul Hackers don't use them(thank god).
You can make a close approximation out of any honorific with some effort. That's what localization means.
Junior members should call regular members sempai
I agree with this.
We must teach our wonderful Kouhai the way of the GAF.
Help
Or are they saying desu and I'm hearing desk?
It's Atlus' weird thing. Which is doubly confusing since they seem to hate Japanese dubs, so I don't get why they don't just fully localize the Persona games.
?
I thought Inaba was in South Dakato for the entire game!
I was following well enough and then you threw in two new ones. What are -chi and -tan for then? I don't think I've ever seen those in the Persona games.
Sempei means leader.
When Sempei notices you, she calls you kun.
Sempei never notices though. Even when you think she does, she doesn't truly. Sempei has a busy life.
What anime-GAF has to realize is that it's entirely possible to convey degrees of respect and familiarity in languages other than Japanese. No, there isn't a direct translation of -chan to a single English word. But that's entirely besides the point. An actual localization should never be focused on finding a one-to-one equivalent for every single word in the Japanese text.
What anime-GAF has to realize is that it's entirely possible to convey degrees of respect and familiarity in languages other than Japanese. No, there isn't a direct translation of -chan to a single English word. But that's entirely besides the point. An actual localization should never be focused on finding a one-to-one equivalent for every single word in the Japanese text.
While it is certainly possible, given the general quality of most translations/localisations, I believe it is beyond their ability.
Generally the removal of honorifics and stuff means just that, and nothing is put in place to make up for them.
What anime-GAF has to realize is that it's entirely possible to convey degrees of respect and familiarity in languages other than Japanese. No, there isn't a direct translation of -chan to a single English word. But that's entirely besides the point. An actual localization should never be focused on finding a one-to-one equivalent for every single word in the Japanese text.
I just can't..why would an english translation include Japanese honorifics.
But again, by doing that you're neutering part of the charm of the Persona series in the first place.
That is much better than the alternative. Sticking chan or san or whatever onto an English translation is just...well...it is hard to describe. It is basically the feeling that you get when you see translators doing that "All according to Keikaku shit"
Yes, congratulations, you love Japanese culture and language. Stop sticking Japanese language into an English translation. It adds nothing and at it does is remind me of people who are obsessed with Japanese culture and randomly stick Japanese words in their sentences.
This can't be real.But if it is, I must know where it is from.
I'm not sure what it is about Japanese that gets people riled up when a work gets the same kind of treatment.
I'm not sure what it is about Japanese that gets people riled up when a work gets the same kind of treatment.
While it is certainly possible, given the general quality of most translations/localisations, I believe it is beyond their ability.
Generally the removal of honorifics and stuff means just that, and nothing is put in place to make up for them.
What anime-GAF has to realize is that it's entirely possible to convey degrees of respect and familiarity in languages other than Japanese. No, there isn't a direct translation of -chan to a single English word. But that's entirely besides the point. An actual localization should never be focused on finding a one-to-one equivalent for every single word in the Japanese text.
I just think it's a crutch, and it's created a fandom that is more interested in being anime fans and having their own little secret language, and less concerned with the works they're watching actually being of a high quality.
Yes, doing a proper localization is hard. But it's important.
They're saying -desu ka.
-desu being a way to say "is/are" and ka is a sentence ender that turns the sentence into a question.
"waifu-desk" -> "(they are a) waifu?"
'That's great, Sakura-chan!' Literally nothing is lost by removing the honorific. That's the case with a solid 99% of times you'll encounter honorifics in Japanese text. No honorific innately gives some deeper understanding into how a character or writer is thinking or feeling. It's all about context and any editor or even translator worth hiring should be able to massage the choice of honorific into the English text. Now, when honorifics are specifically mentioned, that can be a little challenging. But those situations are not only few and far between, they're also mostly inconsequential. Approximating... say, a character dropping an honorific when addressing another to signify closeness, with another indicator of that closeness... That's how translation works. It's not about 'this word means that word', especially not in dialogue. It's about 'this character who speaks like this and is this kind of person in this setting and in this year with this social standing and feels this way about this topic, says this thing in this way to this person who will react in this way, and is being read by/listened to by someone from this place who is likely this age'. There are so many different ways to say the exact same thing in English that to see, 'That's great, Sakura!' and think the intent of the writer has somehow been perverted, is missing the mark completely.
I don't think anyone thinks of it as a secret language or that anyone feels better knowing that other people don't understand. I've honestly never considered that there are people who play Persona games that don't understand the honourifics. Then again, I learned them as a kid from the inside cover of some manga and watched a lot of anime. I imagine it is the same for many. People don't care whether or not the translations are good for their mother, they want the translations to be good for themselves. I prefer the honourifics to be kept in because I know what they mean and there usually isn't a direct translation for them. You are free to disagree and prefer the removal or localisation of honourifics, just don't accuse people who prefer honourifics of trying to stroke their sense of superiority.
Nothing is particularly gained by removing it either though ^^;
In that sort of situation, it exists for flavour. Is it needed? Of course not. Just like random Russian/Italian/French/etc words/honorifics aren't needed in works set in those places. But often they are still there, for flavour or atmosphere.
While I agree "keep them because it is impossible to convey the same meaning without them" is a poor argument, I think "remove them because I don't want to seem them" or "remove them because they don't need to be there" are equally poor arguments.
Anything outside the stuff in the OP is usually some cutesy thing like chan (but even cuter).okay what about
-chin
or
-tan
what about "dono"
How can a Japanese to English translation be 'good for you', not as a native English speaker but as someone with a basic grasp on honorifics as a concept, and also not be exclusionary by nature?
Frankly, I want your mom to play Persona. One's attraction or lack thereof to foreign media should be defined by the source material and not by arbitrary linguistic roadblocks popularized by a vocal minority of consumers.
Nowadays, "dono" means you sound like a samurai. It's like how speaking with "thy" and such makes you a Shakespeare-era noble character nowadays in English.Dono is an olden day honourific that might be used between two kings, for example. If one king called another King-sama then he would be putting himself below him (calling someone sama is like an acknowledgement of your inferiority). So this king would instead call the other king, King-dono. Depending on the context, it could be used in an arrogant way where some homeless dude calls a king, King-dono and King-dono's right hand man will go all "tch!!!!!". I'm not a Japanese cultural expert, so I could be wrong.
Nowadays, "dono" means you sound like a samurai. It's like how speaking with "thy" and such makes you a Shakespeare-era noble character nowadays in English.