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[Xrenity]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...i07.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/07/07/ixuknews.html

IT BEGINS.
There was a Wii-event in the UK, apparently. Gamers and sceptics were asked to play around.

The article says it will release in the end of November in the UK, but I doubt that.

Computer game that gets you off the sofa
By David Derbyshire, Consumer Affairs Editor
(Filed: 07/07/2006)

It has been billed as the computer games machine for people who can't stand computer games.

The Wii, unveiled yesterday for the first time in Britain, is marketed at people who think video games are fiddly, anti-social and ultimately just a little bit pointless.
Two people playing tennis using the console
The hand-held controller has a motion sensor

Its makers are convinced that they can reach beyond the usual fan base of spotty teenage boys and thirty-something bachelors and persuade the elderly, women and the over-35s to take up gaming.

Judging by yesterday's reaction from dedicated games experts and sceptics alike, they could well be right.

Playing with a Wii - it's supposed to be pronounced "we" - is unlike any conventional computer game experience.

Yesterday, one self-confessed games cynic admitted that she was impressed with the device after trying out the tennis.

"I hate computer games and would much rather go out and get some fresh air," she said. "But I have to say this was rather good. I could see me playing this at a party."

 

[drohne]

why are "videogames for people who hate videogames" considered a good thing when "books for people who hate reading" or "music for people who hate music" are such obviously bad things?

 

[AniHawk]

sceptics, huh.

 

[Dunpeal]

Yup, good stuff for the Wii. But the problem is the gamers, not the non gamers.

I don't know if Gamers and non gamers are incompatible in this, but i wonder if the gamer won't pick it up and say "Yeah its fun, but i couldn't see myself playing only this, more of a time to time.".

Just saying....

 

[Xrenity]

why are "videogames for people who hate videogames" considered a good thing when "books for people who hate reading" or "music for people who hate music" are such obviously bad things? my theory is that nintendo fans are dumb.

Uh huh.

The main target is people who think they don't like videogames, who think it's not something for them, but will like it.

/edit
Well. Not their main target. But whatever.

 

[Amir0x]

why are "videogames for people who hate videogames" considered a good thing when "books for people who hate reading" or "music for people who hate music" are such obviously bad things? my theory is that nintendo fans are dumb.

that's a theory?

 

[Goreomedy]

"I hate computer games and would much rather go out and get some fresh air," she said. "But I have to say this was rather good. I could see me playing this at a party."

So... if someone ELSE buys a Wii, and she happens to see it hooked up to a TV while at a party, she might go a few rounds. Whew, Nintendo must be resting easy after hearing comments like this. Go-go-gadget Wiiwand!

 

[travisbickle]

Uh huh.

The main target is people who think they don't like videogames, who think it's not something for them, but will like it.

Wii, the thinking man's game console.

 

[drohne]

something like wii tennis or brain training appeals to people who hate videogames by divesting itself of practically everything that makes a videogame a videogame. in rather the way that fat bestsellers sell precisely because they have no literary merit, and much popular music sells because it's inoffensive background noise.

game enthusiasts should look down on "games for people who hate games," but can't because they're too busy loathing themselves -- they suspect that people who hate videogames are right, and would like to see them placated somehow.

also nintendo fans are dumb.

 

[Souldriver]

something like wii tennis or brain training appeals to people who hate videogames by divesting itself of practically everything that makes a videogame a videogame. in rather the way that fat bestsellers sell precisely because they have no literary merit, and much popular music sells because it's inoffensive background noise.

game enthusiasts should look down on "games for people who hate games," but can't because they're too busy loathing themselves -- they suspect people who hate videogames are right, and would like to see them placated somehow.

also nintendo fans are dumb.

I think you're on to something!

 

[AniHawk]

something like wii tennis or brain training appeals to people who hate videogames by divesting itself of practically everything that makes a videogame a videogame. in rather the way that fat bestsellers sell precisely because they have no literary merit, and much popular music sells because it's inoffensive background noise.

But nongames sell and thus fund bigger and better Marios and Zeldas (and Fire Emblems).

 

[GilloD]

why are "videogames for people who hate videogames" considered a good thing when "books for people who hate reading" or "music for people who hate music" are such obviously bad things?

The same reason there's no Lance Bangs of game crit

Seriously, though, games are a participatory medium where books and music are passively engaged rather than actively. They rarely need to be good so much as easy and/or sensational.

 

[sprsk]

why are "videogames for people who hate videogames" considered a good thing when "books for people who hate reading" or "music for people who hate music" are such obviously bad things?

cause there are such things as good books and good music.

 

[Luckett_X]

You have 2 ways of appealing to 'non-gamers' to convince them that gaming is just as worthy pastime as movie watching, music and art appreceation and book reading. In my view theres a wrong way and a right way:

- Concentrate on improving games to the standard of writing in literature (Shadow of the Collosus), cinematography (Metal Gear Solid series) and interactive world to show the benefits of story-telling in an interactive environment (Half Life 2). Improve music so that its a genre of its own to be appreciated (Rez), and experiment with awesome new art styles and ways of presenting things (Okami).

- Dumb everything down to simple mini-games that retards who can't work out how to use an 8 button control system with tutorials in, can just pick up and play at 'parties' as something to just pass the time.

Maybe the Wii will have some deeper use of the wagglewand, but it just isnt on show yet. And out of the 2 choices above, I know which one i'd prefer the great innovators in our medium to be following.

 

[beelzebozo]

cause there are such things as good books and good music.

while i personally don't read a lot of popular fiction, to say that it's a bad thing that books have become in some way more inclusive through playing to a broader audience--by whatever means--is a bit elitist. maybe wii sports won't be the video game equivalent of a thought-provoking symbolist novel packed with post-colonial commentary and scholastic merit, but then again, who cares? those games still exist to be enjoyed.

if anything it gives the industry as a whole some leverage on a political level when someone tries to crack the whip on video game violence or some other hot button issue.

 

[MrSardonic]

why are "videogames for people who hate videogames" considered a good thing when "books for people who hate reading" or "music for people who hate music" are such obviously bad things?

*yawn* what a piss-poor comparison

Concentrate on improving games to the standard of writing in literature (Shadow of the Collosus), cinematography (Metal Gear Solid series) and interactive world to show the benefits of story-telling in an interactive environment (Half Life 2).

:lol

Dumb everything down to simple mini-games that retards who can't work out how to use an 8 button control system with tutorials in, can just pick up and play at 'parties' as something to just pass the time.

you SO don't have a girlfriend

 

[Zalasta]

"I hate computer games and would much rather go out and get some fresh air," she said. "But I have to say this was rather good. I could see me playing this at a party."

Still doesn't change the fact that this person won't be in line buying the Wii. Just because this person can see herself playing a videogame at a party, does not necessarily mean she will become Nintendo's next customer.

And we all know people who own a gaming console throws the best parties... /sarcasm

 

[E-Nature]

why are "videogames for people who hate videogames" considered a good thing when "books for people who hate reading" or "music for people who hate music" are such obviously bad things?

it's about broaden the market

 

[Shogmaster]

something like wii tennis or brain training appeals to people who hate videogames by divesting itself of practically everything that makes a videogame a videogame. in rather the way that fat bestsellers sell precisely because they have no literary merit, and much popular music sells because it's inoffensive background noise.

game enthusiasts should look down on "games for people who hate games," but can't because they're too busy loathing themselves -- they suspect that people who hate videogames are right, and would like to see them placated somehow.

also nintendo fans are dumb.

drohne for prez of GAF.

 

[drohne]

*yawn* what a piss-poor comparison

if you'll close your mouth presently you might see the point of the comparison. i obviously don't mean to say that videogames are just like books or music...but it's worth asking yourself what the difference is in this case. it's worth answering my question.

 

[MrSardonic]

i obviously don't mean to say that videogames are just like books or music.

i obviously didn't say that you said that

 

[beelzebozo]

if you'd close your mouth presently you might see the point of the comparison. i obviously don't mean to say that videogames are just like books or music.

but you are trying to say that books and music would be healthier mediums if they were restricted to appeal to only those who thought of themselves as enlightened to the "finer side" of these things. right?

 

[Goreomedy]

And we all know people who own a gaming console throws the best parties... /sarcasm

"I'm givin' this whole thing as a promotional expense, that's why I invited clients instead of friends. Want to play with my Wii?"

 

[AniHawk]

You have 2 ways of appealing to 'non-gamers' to convince them that gaming is just as worthy pastime as movie watching, music and art appreceation and book reading. In my view theres a wrong way and a right way:

- Concentrate on improving games to the standard of writing in literature (Shadow of the Collosus), cinematography (Metal Gear Solid series) and interactive world to show the benefits of story-telling in an interactive environment (Half Life 2). Improve music so that its a genre of its own to be appreciated (Rez), and experiment with awesome new art styles and ways of presenting things (Okami).

- Dumb everything down to simple mini-games that retards who can't work out how to use an 8 button control system with tutorials in, can just pick up and play at 'parties' as something to just pass the time.

Maybe the Wii will have some deeper use of the wagglewand, but it just isnt on show yet. And out of the 2 choices above, I know which one i'd prefer the great innovators in our medium to be following.

The former is what scares people away from games. It's like comic books. Even though there are some really well written graphic novels out there like Blankets and Bone, most people will stay away because the most popular are about cloning and time travel and other absurdities that are far too geeky. Metal Gear Solid? Rez? Reaching out to people who don't play games? Bitch, please.

 

[PuppetSlave]

that's a theory?

Maybe he means that it is a theory much like the theory of gravity. No definitive proof, just observation data. :lol

But kidding aside. I do not think that increasing the userpool in gaming is a bad thing. Even if alot of people will only buy "nongames" and never get into more hardcore games it still produces profit and thats good for us Nintendofanboys who wants to see more games.

Also getting more people to play *any* videogame will only more integrate videogames into society. To become more like books and movies.

Yeah and alot of people will only try the Wii and not buy it sure. But that is alot more then they did before thats for sure... :lol

 

[PkunkFury]

why are "videogames for people who hate videogames" considered a good thing when "books for people who hate reading" or "music for people who hate music" are such obviously bad things?

there was a time when jazz, rock and roll, and more recently rap were considered music for people who hate music, or not music at all

 

[drohne]

but you are trying to say that books and music would be healthier mediums if they were restricted to appeal to only those who thought of themselves as enlightened to the "finer side" of these things. right?

no -- i'm not proposing a world where all books are good. i only mean to say that good readers should and indeed do look down on something like the lovely bones. whether that "looking down" takes the form of scorn or condescension or indifference, there's an underlying recognition that alice sebold is not of the same species as w.g. sebald. why can't game enthusiasts do the same?

i concede that brain training is probably very 'good for the industry.'

 

[Teknopathetic]

"there was a time when jazz, rock and roll, and more recently rap were considered music for people who hate music"

I'm pretty sure all of those examples were considered not music at all. Not music for people who hate music, but just plain ole they didn't consider it "music."

 

[mankey wrench]

i like videogames so does this mean i won't like wii?

 

[AniHawk]

lovely bones.

:lol

My 11th grade English teacher recommended this to the entire class. When it came down to report time, about half of the girls in our class did theirs on that

Spoiler

(I think I did Mere Christianity).

 

[MrSardonic]

when I play a game I don't want to be watching a movie, or feel like I'm in a shitty movie that lets me do menial tasks while it ushers me along on next-gen rails, or feel like some fantasy/crime-book nerd has written the plot and tried to look clever, or hear 50-Cent's latest POS game-music blurting out, etc.

Many videogame fanatics have totally bought into the industry's "oh shit, wtf do we do with this medium? I know, we'll try to pimp it as interactive-movies, no wait, interactive-movie-books...with 50-Cent. This just might change the world".

I'm pretty sure all of those examples were considered not music at all.

perhaps...non-music

 

[beelzebozo]

no -- i'm not proposing a world where all books are good. i only mean to say that good readers should and indeed do look down on something like the lovely bones. whether that "looking down" takes the form of scorn or condescension or whatever, there's an underlying recognition that alice sebold is not of the same species as w.g. sebald. why can't game enthusiasts do the same?

i concede that brain training is probably very 'good for the industry.'

no, in that sense i agree with you. i think as a video game player it's a bit more difficult to draw that distinction between games that are intended for you and those that are designed for those who have not normally been inclined to play games, since most games to date have been put forth wishing to attract that core gaming audience.

i bought nintendogs when it was initially released, and while i respect the technical achievement, i also had no reservations about selling it. i think the longer we have the video game equivalent of something like the davinci code (which i wouldn't touch with a fifty foot pole strictly on principle) the more adept long-time players of video games will be at saying, "this scores well for this audience, but is clearly not for me."

 

[darthbane2k]

why are "videogames for people who hate videogames" considered a good thing when "books for people who hate reading" or "music for people who hate music" are such obviously bad things?

its called GROWING the market/industry

 

[darthbane2k]

Still doesn't change the fact that this person won't be in line buying the Wii. Just because this person can see herself playing a videogame at a party, does not necessarily mean she will become Nintendo's next customer.

of course it does - especially when they see how cheap and reasonably price the Wii actually is. If anything it would be an impulse purchase - "Oh thats the cool tennis game I played at Sandy's house - its only £170, a lot cheaper than that £425 playstation or £250 xbox360 over there, how reasonable!". :lol

 

[sprsk]

Actually (here comes a mini rant) this whole games for people who hate games thing, to me anyway, is more of a backlash to over 20 years of derivation(did i use that word right). It happens in art all the time, movements come and they challenge what we think is good. Wether or not you like it, these things are necessary to move forward. If the next 20 years is nothing but what were doing now except with better graphics, animation, physics then what good is gaming? Now i know okay okay, this is a really narrow view. Its about creating new gameplay ideas. We dont really need wii to do that. We dont need a weird controller to have new and inventive gameplay.

However, I think we DO need a wacky controller to expand gaming. Put gaming into the hands of more and more creative people. There are games out there that people would like if they would just try them, but they just wont because of the current nature of gaming. Nintendo is doing us gamers a service by bowing out of the console arms race (god i think i read that in a pr somewhere im sorry) and taking a chance to get gaming out of nerdtown or manlymancity or kidopolis and into normal peopleville.

Nintendo is trying with games that arent about demons and sparda or world war 2. Nintendo, I would say, is trying to get back to the essence of video games. It isnt about replicating your favorite movie with some punching and kicking and shooting inbetween. Videogames at their core are just games. They are a person competing against something. The philosophy behind the wii and stuff like tennis (yes before you go BUT THERE ARE NORMAL GAMES TOO!!!) is that hey, we dont need the superfluous stuff, why dont we cut out the crap and let them have fun?

These games arent for us, were too hardcore, we digest games like a fat guy at a buffet and were never satisfied. We are essentially galactus. But hey, I'm going to buy it. If I have fun, great. If its short lived, eh, maybe next time right?

 

[Teknopathetic]

"perhaps...non-music"

No, the older generations at the time just considered it noise. Comparing Miles Davis to Nintendogs is a crime against humanity though.

 

[AniHawk]

its only £170, a lot cheaper than that £425 playstation or £250 xbox360 over there, how reasonable!". :lol

SHUT. UP.

 

[drohne]

when I play a game I don't want to be watching a movie, or feel like I'm in a shitty movie that lets me do menial tasks while it ushers me along on next-gen rails, or feel like some fantasy/crime-book nerd has written the plot and tried to look clever, or hear 50-Cent's latest POS game-music blurting out, etc.

Many videogame fanatics have totally bought into the industry's "oh shit, wtf do we do with this medium? I know, we'll try to pimp it as interactive-movies, no wait, interactive-movie-books...with 50-Cent. This just might change the world".

boy, for all your yawning at me and being enigmatic, i'd hoped you had something better than irrelevant fanboy cant

 

[Varian]

if you'll close your mouth presently you might see the point of the comparison. i obviously don't mean to say that videogames are just like books or music...but it's worth asking yourself what the difference is in this case. it's worth answering my question.

No, the older generations at the time just considered it noise. Comparing Miles Davis to Nintendogs is a crime against humanity though.

More interesting questions might be asked if you revise the analogy to, say, "poetry for people who can't stand Neoclassicist poetry".

 

[MrSardonic]

i'd hoped you had something better than irrelevant fanboy cant

fanboy? why? because I don't think games should be reduced to visions of interactive movies? or because I don't buy into your ludicrous theory that Wii games are going to be the equivalent of "books for people who hate books" or "music for people who hate music"...despite the fact that neither of these things really exist unless you consider classical to be the only music worth hearing and the work of Dickens and pals to be the only books worth reading. I'm not taking Dickens to read on the beach and I'm not going to put Mozart on at a party.

 

[PkunkFury]

"there was a time when jazz, rock and roll, and more recently rap were considered music for people who hate music"

I'm pretty sure all of those examples were considered not music at all. Not music for people who hate music, but just plain ole they didn't consider it "music."

Sort of like how Brain training and Wii sports are not games, eh?

But rather, I'm sure it was also considered that people enjoying those forms of music hated "real" music by the elitists of those times. The whole "games for nongamers" thing is just a marketing shtick to hype up an atempt to grow the medium past its primary audience, which will of course be oppossed by the elitists

 

[beelzebozo]

Sort of like how Brain training and Wii sports are not games, eh?

But rather, I'm sure it was also considered that people enjoying those forms of music hated "real" music by the elitists of those times. The whole "games for nongamers" thing is just a marketing shtick to hype up an atempt to grow the medium past its primary audience, which will of course be oppossed by the elitists

but you know, the "games for nongamers" may be gateways for some people who would otherwise not play more complicated games. the notion that it simply opens people to the medium is good in the sense that it convinces people to consider video games as an option for their entertainment time.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Sort of like how Brain training and Wii sports are not games, eh?"

If you want to seriously weigh the cultural contributions of the birth of Rock and Roll and Jazz against Brain Training and Wii sports I'm not sure I want to have any part of it.

 

[sprsk]

Sort of like how Brain training and Wii sports are not games, eh?

But rather, I'm sure it was also considered that people enjoying those forms of music hated "real" music by the elitists of those times. The whole "games for nongamers" thing is just a marketing shtick to hype up an atempt to grow the medium past its primary audience, which will of course be oppossed by the elitists

i dont know how anyone in their right mind could consider wii SPORTS a non game.

 

[drohne]

fanboy? why?

because neither 50 cent nor "interactive movies" have anything to do with anything. because it doesn't follow from the fact that you don't want to hear 50 cent in your games -- really? you don't want to hear 50 cent in your games? -- that games should be reduced to homework or whatever physical pleasure lies in swinging your arms around. but mostly because i could find a hundred gaf posts that read exactly like yours, and most of them were deployed for one purpose.

 

[AniHawk]

i dont know how anyone in their right mind could consider wii SPORTS a non game.

But it scares me.

 

[PkunkFury]

i dont know how anyone in their right mind could consider wii SPORTS a non game.

something like wii tennis or brain training appeals to people who hate videogames by divesting itself of practically everything that makes a videogame a videogame.

In this very thread no less :lol

Though to be honest I sort of agree. Tennis seems pretty boring if you don't move the character, isn't it basically like timing the press of the A button back and forth? That's a step back from pong, and I'm an avid Wii supporter. However, I haven't played it, and I'm not discounting the rest of the titles just because I feel the game is not for me

Actually (here comes a mini rant) this whole games for people who hate games thing, to me anyway, is more of a backlash to over 20 years of derivation(did i use that word right). It happens in art all the time, movements come and they challenge what we think is good. Wether or not you like it, these things are necessary to move forwards.

I like this. GAF is the Society of Independant artists circa early 1900s and the Wii is fittingly Marcel DuChamp's "Fountain"

 

[broadwayrock]

"I'm givin' this whole thing as a promotional expense, that's why I invited clients instead of friends. Want to play with my Wii?"

I watched that for the first time in like 15 or so years yesterday. It wasnt as good as a remembered it, though it was still pretty funny.

 

[sprsk]

In this very thread no less :lol

Though to be honest I sort of agree. Tennis seems pretty boring if you don't move the character, isn't it basically like timing the press of the A button back and forth? That's a step back from pong, and I'm an avid Wii supporter. However, I haven't played it, and I'm not discounting the rest of the titles just because I feel the game is not for me



I like this. GAF is the Society of Independant artists circa early 1900s and the Wii is fittingly Marcel DuChamp's "Fountain"

i just realize i said forwards instead of forward. i should proofread more often.

 

[Varian]

i just realize i said forwards instead of forward. i should proofread more often.

b-but...the way we move "forwards" with the Wii wand is precisely equivalent to how Da Vinci moved "forward" with the scalpel.