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[Vagabundo]

I didn't hate Skyler as such, but I just couldn't like her. As mentioned already, she's a buzzkill. Walt only started cooking meth to earn money to look after his family in the event the cancer killed him. Yet, for some reason, he was looked upon as an evil, scumbag husband for lying to his family. Yes, he did lie, but did so to protect them. And what does Skyler do? She treats him like shit. Walt should've left her to scrape on by with what they had.

Did you actually watch the show? Walt never never never did it for his family. He finally admits it at the end, but he always did it for himself.

 

[A Link to the Past]

So there's no in-between, eh? Can someone not enjoy how she was written or the scenes she was in because she was a nagging bitch, fucked Ted, and did some other shit that was an obstacle to Walt doing deliciously evil shit?

Yeah, Walt pretty much becomes evil, but who gives a fuck? It was fun. I'm here for the ride. Skyler is the definition of "No Fun Allowed" - has nothing to do with her being a woman.

I would say that in a lot of cases, the "she fucked Ted" was inherently an attack on her in part because she's a woman. The general rule of thumb is that cheating is only okay if you're a dude. It's not always okay, mind you, but generally, the rule applies here - guys who do it are studs, girls who do it are sluts.

 

[SeanC]

Was it out of spite?

I always thought she did that to force Walt's hand into getting a divorce, since that's clearly what she wanted after she kicked Walt out of the house, and due to the way the cookie crumbled unless the divorce was mutual there was nothing she could do, and after Walt moved himself back in her options were running out.

She had plenty of options. She was literally on her way out and leave the state, and instead of just doing it, flips a coin. It's inconsistencies with her that I found frustrating, like with trying to force a divorce then try to sell that they need to keep the family together, or how getting a divorce would make Walt magically disappear especially when, later on, she magically realizes "hey, I could just leave, right?"

The problem with Skylar is that she had no clear direction and kept wafting, as though the writers both wanted her to stay as a player in the story directly with Walt but were conflicted because any normal person would have just left (which she said she was going to numerous times). It became frustrating after a while and she should have left him the minute she found out about the drug shit in Season 3. Up to that point, I totally get her, after that...not so much. Especially after she becomes an accomplice and joins in the hole that Walt started to dig.

Again, I think Skylar is simultaneously a strong character, mostly because of the actress, yet a frustrating one because of the back and forth the writers did with her from season to season. Walt had a clear path, which is why we all knew how it would end. Skylar's was all over the map not because she was necessarily complex but because she tended to do stupid stuff. I'm actually in the boat of wanting Skylar to just f'n turn Walt in - not "she's a buzzkill." She kept not doing that and her reasoning never seemed genuine to me.

 

[kavanf1]

The cheating thing...Walt had moved back in and she was terrified of him. She thought that the only way to drive him away would be to do something awful so he would leave. She didn't fuck Ted for a laugh, she did it out of desperation.

 

[captive]

There is a difference between liking or disliking a character, regardless of whether or not that character is morally "good" or "evil", and liking or disliking them because you think their behaviour is morally correct/wrong.

It's like this. You can enjoy Darth Vader as a character. Think he's badass, cool, mysterious, etc. And enjoy the scenes where he acts like an evil badass dictator and force-chokes people. This does not make you a bad person.

But if you start thinking, "well, you know what, Darth Vader was justified in force-choking that little bitch, and I can understand him being a ruthless tyrant, because you know, the Galaxy needed stability"... then yes, if you really believe that, you are probably not a good person. If you say "I'm glad Darth Vader did what he did because it made for a good, enjoyable, exciting saga/story", that's very different.

So if you hate Skyler because you don't enjoy how she was written or the scenes she was in, that's one thing. If you hate her because "she was a nagging bitch to poor cancer-ridden Walt plus she fucked Ted omg what a disgusting whore", I will definitely think your moral compass is broken, at best, and yes, you're probably a misogynist.

wow, way to completely ignore over half my post and then essentially boil it back down to "lol misogynist" while simultaneously proving my point about discussions about skyler. good talk A+ post, would read again.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

wow, way to completely ignore over half my post and then essentially boil it back down to "lol misogynist" while simultaneously proving my point about discussions about skyler. good talk A+ post, would read again.

Huh? What is your problem? I'm not even talking about you personally. It was clearly an impersonal you there. I was explaining in a general way that there is a difference between hating or liking a character as representatives of moral agents or as fictional characters in a story. Christ, relax.

 

[uncelestial]

Most of the Skyler hate is misogyny, that much is plainly obvious.

So if you hate Skyler because you don't enjoy how she was written or the scenes she was in, that's one thing. If you hate her because "she was a nagging bitch to poor cancer-ridden Walt plus she fucked Ted omg what a disgusting whore", I will definitely think your moral compass is broken, at best, and yes, you're probably a misogynist.

So toxic and divisive, painting with such a broad brush - and all because you don't really get the appeal of anti-hero stories and like doling out hot takes regarding an intentionally morally ambiguous show. I hope you find a better use for your passions and energy around feminism. It is a worthy cause. But this is pretty questionable stuff. You probably started out with a good heart, the cause waking something in you, something dangerous and exciting. Cut to now, and you're going for people's throats because they don't like a female character who spent nearly 100% of her screen time stealing, lying, cooking books, laundering money, being passive aggressive, screaming, cheating, crying, and judging. Don't you ever wonder how you got here?

What I'm trying to say is: you're the Walter White of feminism.

Sorry, that was a long walk for that punchline. But seriously, maybe you're going a little hard?

Did you actually watch the show? Walt never never never did it for his family. He finally admits it at the end, but he always did it for himself.

Everybody saw that. Nobody needs to keep repeating that scene. They don't seem to remember Walt going through great pains to get that money to his family when he knew he was probably about to die, throw the cops off Skyler's trail during a monitored phone call, and tearfully say goodbye to his baby. The show is intentionally morally ambiguous. It's always tempting to throw characters in the trash when you're ready to pass moral judgement but you are specifically challenged not to do that here and it makes the show a lot more interesting if you don't. "I did it for me" only explains why he stuck with meth as a way of making money, it doesn't mean he didn't value or love his family.

 

[A Link to the Past]

To me, I really find it really hard to not find the hero worship of Walter creepy. It's one thing to enjoy him as a character or even as an anti-hero, but it's another thing to, as done earlier in this thread, characterize Skyler's cheating on him as "cheating on a man dying of cancer." To me it illustrates that people see Walter not as a killer or a pusher of hard drugs, but as a victim. Even as he terrorizes his family and tries to force them to keep him in their lives, cheating on him is perceived as an evil act.

 

[uncelestial]

To me, I really find it really hard to not find the hero worship of Walter creepy. It's one thing to enjoy him as a character or even as an anti-hero, but it's another thing to, as done earlier in this thread, characterize Skyler's cheating on him as "cheating on a man dying of cancer." To me it illustrates that people see Walter not as a killer or a pusher of hard drugs, but as a victim. Even as he terrorizes his family and tries to force them to keep him in their lives, cheating on him is perceived as an evil act.

If you claim to understand anti-heroes, you should realize how little conflict there is between rooting for Walt and disliking things that hurt Walt.

 

[Jay-Hova]

Walt is a Christ like figure to Skylers Satan in people's eyes.
I Literally read threads with people cheering on Walters physical and emotional abuse of her in season five while talking about how they wished he would slap of choke or kill her or wish she would just kill herself because she was a cheating ungrateful bitch and Saint Walt was just perfect and providing for their family.
God the shit certain people said about her, fucking disgusting.
And I'm not saying all or even half of the Q&Ahate was misogyny.
But certain segments of people said shit about her that came from their perception of how women should act or anger at women in their own life,hell I've even seen people admit to both of those.
Breaking Bad was mindless entertainment to most people,even hardcore fans.
And I say that because if something isn't mindless entertainment to you you would actually analyze all of the characters and use critical thought rather than only emotion.
Of course I never understood the Walt fetishism,he was always the ultimate bitch to me (still my favorite after Hank,Skyler is third).
God when people were legitimately angry at Junior for turning on him my mind was boggled.
Also I don't get why people act as though Skyler was holier than thou when she admitted she was as bad as Walt.

 

[Currygan]

I hated Sklyler for two puerile reasons:

- her dumb as shit name. Seriously, it made me cringe everytime Walt croaked "Skylerrr..."

- her elongated face. She reminded me on Charles Napier en travesti

 

[A Link to the Past]

If you claim to understand anti-heroes, you should realize how little conflict there is between rooting for Walt and disliking things that hurt Walt.

There's a difference between disliking the opposition to an anti-hero and mischaracterizing the opposition to an anti-hero. Talking specifically about the cheating thing, people in this thread have tried to argue that her cheating is emotionally abusive, or generally abusive in that she's betraying him or whatever. It's one thing to say that you don't like that she cheated, it's another thing to pretend that the cheating was unjustified and to willfully try to make the anti-hero a victim when they pushed the other person to cheat in the first place.

Walt is a Christ like figure to Skylers Satan in people's eyes.
I Literally read threads with people cheering on Walters physical and emotional abuse of her in season five while talking about how they wished he would slap of choke or kill her or wish she would just kill herself because she was a cheating ungrateful bitch and Saint Walt was just perfect and providing for their family.
God the shit certain people said about her, fucking disgusting.
And I'm not saying all or even half of the Q&Ahate was misogyny.
But certain segments of people said shit about her that came from their perception of how women should act or anger at women in their own life,hell I've even seen people admit to both of those.
Breaking Bad was mindless entertainment to most people,even hardcore fans.
And I say that because if something isn't mindless entertainment to you you would actually analyze all of the characters and use critical thought rather than only emotion.
Of course I never understood the Walt fetishism,he was always the ultimate bitch to me (still my favorite after Hank,Skyler is third).
God when people were legitimately angry at Junior for turning on him my mind was boggled.
Also I don't get why people act as though Skyler was holier than thou when she admitted she was as bad as Walt.

I swear, some of the more extreme fans would have talked shit about a character if they got upset that Walt was a cannibal and ate his children.

 

[uncelestial]

There's a difference between disliking the opposition to an anti-hero and mischaracterizing the opposition to an anti-hero. Talking specifically about the cheating thing, people in this thread have tried to argue that her cheating is emotionally abusive, or generally abusive in that she's betraying him or whatever. It's one thing to say that you don't like that she cheated, it's another thing to pretend that the cheating was unjustified and to willfully try to make the anti-hero a victim when they pushed the other person to cheat in the first place.

Meh. Disliking someone and construing their motivations and actions a certain way go hand in hand - especially when that someone is fictional and people aren't very invested in "getting it right" (since it's not actually happening to them). In the fictional realm you can actually feel good when people straight up get killed onscreen. That's a pretty ultimate judgement! Everything you're talking about is small potatoes and boils down to you thinking certain judgements about certain actions are a bit harsh. But Skyler is not a real person whose feelings can be hurt by these judgements; she is a fictional creation that wasn't written to react to the story's events in a way absolutely everybody accepted. And that's okay. It's okay to root for Walt, it's okay to think Skyler spoiled the fun and obstructed the thrillride, it's okay to think Walt was sympathetic and showed humanity up to the end, these are just measurements of people either getting what they want out of a piece of fiction, or not getting it -- they aren't actual reflections on actual people.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

So toxic and divisive, painting with such a broad brush - and all because you don't really get the appeal of anti-hero stories

Hahaha what on Earth? How can you possibly say such strawman garbage after quoting the same post that said this?

You can enjoy Darth Vader as a character. Think he's badass, cool, mysterious, etc. And enjoy the scenes where he acts like an evil badass dictator and force-chokes people. This does not make you a bad person.

Like, holy dishonest selective quoting, Batman.

I am saying there's a difference between enjoying Walter White as a character (and/or his story), and thinking that Walter White is not a morally bankrupt character and/or that he was justified in his actions. I couldn't possibly have made that any clearer with my Darth Vader analogy. Sigh.

and like doling out hot takes regarding an intentionally morally ambiguous show. I hope you find a better use for your passions and energy around feminism. It is a worthy cause. But this is pretty questionable stuff. You probably started out with a good heart, the cause waking something in you, something dangerous and exciting. Cut to now, and you're going for people's throats because they don't like a female character who spent nearly 100% of her screen time stealing, lying, cooking books, laundering money, being passive aggressive, screaming, cheating, crying, and judging. Don't you ever wonder how you got here?

What I'm trying to say is: you're the Walter White of feminism.

Sorry, that was a long walk for that punchline. But seriously, maybe you're going a little hard?

Yeah it's a long walk full of scarecrows very thick with straws. And insulting my feminism along the way, too. GG

 

[A Link to the Past]

Meh. Disliking someone and construing their motivations and actions a certain way go hand in hand - especially when that someone is fictional and people aren't very invested in "getting it right" (since it's not actually happening to them). In the fictional realm you can actually feel good when people straight up get killed onscreen. That's a pretty ultimate judgement! Everything you're talking about is small potatoes and boils down to you thinking certain judgements about certain actions are a bit harsh. But Skyler is not a real person whose feelings can be hurt by these judgements; she is a fictional creation that wasn't written to react to the story's events in a way absolutely everybody accepted. And that's okay. It's okay to root for Walt, it's okay to think Skyler spoiled the fun and obstructed the thrillride, it's okay to think Walt was sympathetic and showed humanity up to the end, these are just measurements of people either getting what they want out of a piece of fiction, or not getting it -- they aren't actual reflections on actual people.

But I'm not talking hurt feelings (though I would argue that the degree of hate that Skyler got did harm Anna Gunn given the threats and harassment she got). I'm not talking about spoiling fun or thwarting Walt, I'm talking about how people actively misrepresent the situation to erase Walt's poor behaviour in order to make everyone around him look worse. Like I said earlier in the thread, it reminds me a lot of Archie Bunker hero worship. Walt wasn't meant to be deified the way he was, just like Archie Bunker was designed to be disliked. Ultimately though, both characters wound up being fan favourites (though in the case of Archie, they were naturally able to then evolve the character to eventually grow to reject the problematic views he held in order to reject the fans who sympathized with him).

 

[uncelestial]

Hahaha what on Earth? How can you possibly say such strawman garbage after quoting the same post that said this?

You can enjoy Darth Vader as a character. Think he's badass, cool, mysterious, etc. And enjoy the scenes where he acts like an evil badass dictator and force-chokes people. This does not make you a bad person.

Like, holy dishonest selective quoting, Batman.

I am saying there's a difference between enjoying Walter White as a character (and/or his story), and thinking that Walter White is not a morally bankrupt character and/or that he was justified in his actions. I couldn't possibly have made that any clearer with my Darth Vader analogy. Sigh.

You're continuing to be kinda toxic and horrible. Why do you do that? It can't possibly make you happy. And it isn't remotely warranted. Nobody is saying Walt is "justified in his actions," whatever actions that refers to. Nobody cares about your Darth Vader analogy because he was an antagonist. He wasn't an anti-hero, he was a straight villain. You claim everybody who doesn't just "enjoy" Walt but sees his humanity, roots for him, and finds Skyler's antagonist function in many plotlines to be frustrating/dislikable as "probably a misogynist." Then when someone says "that's painting with a broad brush" you respond with "HAHAHAHAH" and call it "strawman garbage."

You come across as unlikable and no one is going to listen to you while this is how you engage with people. Bad faith, blustering accusations, and sloppy generalizations from top to bottom. I don't see what's in it for you or anybody else.

Yeah it's a long walk full of scarecrows very thick with straws. And insulting my feminism along the way, too. GG

You deserve that criticism. It's not misogyny to dislike the antagonists in anti-hero stories just because they are women. That's just a truthful statement that I'll leave with you.

But I'm not talking hurt feelings (though I would argue that the degree of hate that Skyler got did harm Anna Gunn given the threats and harassment she got). I'm not talking about spoiling fun or thwarting Walt, I'm talking about how people actively misrepresent the situation to erase Walt's poor behaviour in order to make everyone around him look worse. Like I said earlier in the thread, it reminds me a lot of Archie Bunker hero worship. Walt wasn't meant to be deified the way he was, just like Archie Bunker was designed to be disliked. Ultimately though, both characters wound up being fan favourites (though in the case of Archie, they were naturally able to then evolve the character to eventually grow to reject the problematic views he held in order to reject the fans who sympathized with him).

Yes, the threats and hate directed at Anna Gunn make me really angry. There are definitely people who are misogynist in their reactions to Skyler, I just wouldn't say that the key factor to look for is finding humanity in Walt. As I said, Walt's last actions on earth were to: 1) Ensure his family got what was left of his millions, 2) exonerate Skyler in a police-monitored phone call, 3) say a tearful goodbye to Skyler and his baby, and 4) receive a mortal wound while freeing Jesse from his captors. That's *after* his "transformation" into Heisenberg -- that's the end of his evolution into an evil person. Anti-heroes are supposed to be okay to root for a little bit because their humanity is shown, even though they do horrible things. It doesn't "erase" Walt's poor behavior to recognize this trope - on the contrary that behavior is what makes Walt so interesting.

Tony Soprano is another great anti-hero: you could fairly describe him as a sociopathic, lying, cheating murderer. But you see him cry when people he loves hate him, faint from panic attacks, recover from severe medical trauma, confess his deepest pains and fears in therapy, and learn how to loathe himself from a hating and vengeful mother. So, despite all the awful shit you see him do, as a result of seeing his humanity, you end up rooting for him. And you end up disliking the people who stand in his way. Thankfully they were pretty much always men in that show so we sidestepped a lot of obnoxious discussions like this.

You can find misogyny in Skyler reactions when they generalize their criticisms of her to apply to women generally, use gendered insults, go after the actress who played her, etc. But for as long as people are only talking about actions she took that they don't like, I just don't think you can make that call. It's an intentionally morally ambiguous show.

 

[LittleBoots]

I believed I stopped watching this show during season 4.

Spoiler

It was right about the time when they were trying to buy the car wash.

I hated Skyler from the very beginning. But she got so grating and worse throughout the progression of the show, I just stopped. I can't think of of one redeeming trait she has. Is she a good character? Sure. Is she a likable one? Absolutely not. She's a steely ice queen.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

You're continuing to be kinda toxic and horrible. Why do you do that? It can't possibly make you happy. You come across as unlikable

And so the personal attacks continue. Wow, you're on fire.

And it isn't remotely warranted. Nobody is saying Walt is "justified in his actions," whatever actions that refers to. Nobody cares about your Darth Vader analogy because he was an antagonist.

So? Villains can be antagonists or protagonists, that's irrelevant to my point. I could have picked Yagami Light, Patrick Bateman, Dexter Morgan, or almost anyone else from that list and my point would be the same. I picked Darth Vader because everyone knows him.

Remember: I said there was a difference between enjoying a villain character (which I do! all the time!), and thinking his villainous characteristics are virtue and/or justified. But, well, I'm repeating myself.

He wasn't an anti-hero, he was a straight villain.

So was Walter White by the end of the series. Again, villains can be protagonists.

Bad faith, blustering accusations, and sloppy generalizations from top to bottom. I don't see what's in it for you or anybody else.

Pretty ironic of you to say that, considering your ridiculous posts full of ad hominem and constant, deliberate misrepresentations of what I say.

You deserve that criticism. It's not misogyny to dislike the antagonists in anti-hero stories just because they are women.

Yeah and it's a good thing I never said that!

That's just a truthful statement that I'll leave with you.

Thank you for telling me these Truthful Statements (tm). How would I ever figure things out otherwise.

 

[A Link to the Past]

You're trying to find something in my statement that doesn't exist? I'm commenting on how viewers not only try to sympathize with Walt, but actively prop him up as the victim of the story, such as when someone characterized Skyler's cheating as being on a man with cancer.

EDIT: And I doubt it'll be of any value since you'll just assume that I'm biased, but for as """"toxic"""" as Morrigan may seem, you are absolutely talking to strawmen and ignoring what people are telling you. It'd be weird if people weren't being annoyed by what you were posting.