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[takriel]

I'm sure that's how most people read your post, including myself.

Sometimes people just see something they can't put into boxes and they revert to one of their goto phrases which in the case of takriel seems to be some kind 30 vs 60 fps thing.

Yup, I realize that now. Silly me.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Being honest, while I'd love for awesome melee combat too, it doesn't exactly make sense to fight robot dinosaurs with melee -- you'd have to be bloody suicidal. I'm fine with the focus being on ranged combat, so long as it doesn't devolve in a generic shooter.

Fortunately the ranged combat seems to have depth and a lot of options to it. If it's half as good as ranged combat from, say, Dragon's Dogma or Monster Hunter*, I'll be happy. Playing as Magick Archer in DD, or archer or gunner in MH was tons of fun, and I can see it working well against big nasty robots and beasts of all stripes.

* Not expecting it to be as good as glorious Capcom combat, of course, but if it's aiming for that same sort of quality, we could have something really fucking sweet here. Please don't screw this up, Guerilla...

 

[Kieli]

Don't get hyped. Go in with low expectations, and then let the game blow your mind if it's worthy.

 

[Sanctuary]

Based on what you've played could you describe the RPG mechanics how does it compare to let's say a Witcher/ Deus Ex kind of RPG?

I never took away from any of the previews that you would have any real character development like in most RPGs, and that this is going to be as much of an "RPG" as the latest Tomb Raiders. It's always looked like all you'll be doing stats wise is leveling up weapons or weapon skills. I don't really care though, since I never once felt this was going to actually be an RPG like so many others around here. I'm fine with a large adventure game.

I was being serious...

Have you just not been following this game? From the start they've emphasized that it's ranged based.

Don't get hyped. Go in with low expectations, and then let the game blow your mind if it's worthy.

This is one of the few games this gen that seems to actually be worth getting hyped over.

 

[BigEmil]

I'm sure that's how most people read your post, including myself.

Sometimes people just see something they can't put into boxes and they revert to one of their goto phrases which in the case of takriel seems to be some kind 30 vs 60 fps thing.

I see, also my bad I accidentally quoted you instead of the original reply

 

[bwakh]

Cosmetic customization are possible, but they're fixed costume sets. No micro-managing individual pieces.

Sounds good to me. Thanks. This game

 

[Blueingreen]

I never took away from any of the previews that you would have any real character development like in most RPGs, and that this is going to be as much of an "RPG" as the latest Tomb Raiders. It's always looked like all you'll be doing stats wise is leveling up weapons or weapon skills. I don't really care though, since I never once felt this was going to actually be an RPG like so many others around here. I'm fine with a large adventure game.

Got to say I'm a bit disappointed to hear that,Even before the game was announced it was billed an RPG I understand the RPG is a very vague genre, I'm just fatigued by the whole shopping list stat building that you get in so many open world drivel, based on what I've read the "RPG" aspects are sounding like a half baked Witcher 3 crossed with a half baked Far Cry 3, I'm still going to anticipate the game, just with a pinch of salt.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Got to say I'm a bit disappointed to hear that,Even before the game was announced it was billed an RPG I understand the RPG is a very vague genre, I'm just fatigued by the whole shopping list stat building that you get in so many open world drivel, based on what I've read the "RPG" aspects are sounding like a half baked Witcher 3 crossed with a half baked Far Cry 3, I'm still going to anticipate the game, just with a pinch of salt.

Most times, if your looking for a full scale real time RPG, the combat is shit.

I'd rather the game combat be fun with RPG elements instead

 

[Loudninja]

I never took away from any of the previews that you would have any real character development like in most RPGs, and that this is going to be as much of an "RPG" as the latest Tomb Raiders. It's always looked like all you'll be doing stats wise is leveling up weapons or weapon skills. I don't really care though, since I never once felt this was going to actually be an RPG like so many others around here. I'm fine with a large adventure game.



Have you just not been following this game? From the start they've emphasized that it's ranged based.



This is one of the few games this gen that seems to actually be worth getting hyped over.

Isnt it a little soon to say something like this?

I dont get what makes a game more of a rpg then another.

 

[benny_a]

Isnt it a little soon to say something like this?

I give it a 7/10

I dont get what makes a game more of a rpg then another.

Pretty easy.

The Witcher 3:
Main quests
Side quests
Inventory
Crafting
Dialog tree
Levels
Skills to unlock
= RPG

Horizon:
Main quests
Side quests
Inventory
Crafting
Dialog tree
Levels
Skills to unlock
= Not RPG

 

[Allonym]

I never took away from any of the previews that you would have any real character development like in most RPGs, and that this is going to be as much of an "RPG" as the latest Tomb Raiders. It's always looked like all you'll be doing stats wise is leveling up weapons or weapon skills. I don't really care though, since I never once felt this was going to actually be an RPG like so many others around here. I'm fine with a large adventure game.



Have you just not been following this game? From the start they've emphasized that it's ranged based.



This is one of the few games this gen that seems to actually be worth getting hyped over.

I understand the game is primarily around the bow. I was simply asking a question that hadn't been answered or shown off by the devs. If you took the time to read some of my posts that you've been so eager to reply, you would've saw that I have been following the game and if you've been following the game you'd see that they rarely enter into melee with a machine besides doing those 1 hit stealth kills.

 

[Loudninja]

Some old pics on the inventory screen

.

Some stuff from a E3 preview

Your ranged options include a bow with three ammo types (normal, piercing, and explosive), and a slingshot (with three elemental options, including frost, fire and lightning. Complementing that is your crossbow, which can pin enemies to the ground, or set up electrical tripwires. The amount of options sounds overwhelming, but swapping between your options is intuitive and becomes second nature.

Melee options are a bit more limited, as taking on your robo-dinosaur overlords in a close-quarters context is dangerous. There’s light and heavy attacks with your spear, which are nice to make some space, but the lack of a lock-on means the majority of your swings will hit nothing but air. There are stealth attacks too, but they don’t instantly kill – instead inflicting a large chunk of damage.

Trade mostly gives Aloy access to new outfits (which provide stat bonuses, like elemental damage immunity) and gear with slots – that is, gear you can shove mods in to increase a range of parameters: from arrow distance, to armour piercing. Buying all of these is handled through Shards – a resource with two uses. The first is obviously for trade, the other is ammo for your bow. It creates a nice push-pull between wanting to survive, and wanting some fresh new kit.

http://nzgamer.com/previews/1281/horizon-zero-dawn-hands-on.html

 

[Baroquemantic]

Based on the info, footage, what the devs have said, this game very much looks like an open world, western RPG. Don't really see how anyone could think it's not, given what we know.

 

[HStallion]

I understand the game is primarily around the bow. I was simply asking a question that hadn't been answered or shown off by the devs. If you took the time to read some of my posts that you've been so eager to reply, you would've saw that I have been following the game and if you've been following the game you'd see that they rarely enter into melee with a machine besides doing those 1 hit stealth kills.

The question has been asked tons of times and its rather obvious from the gameplay focus and mentality of the developers has been from day one. They haven't been hiding some advanced character action game combat when they have talked in detail about the focus on weak points, stripping away specific armor sections, etc.

 

[Loudninja]

Based on the info, footage, what the devs have said, this game very much looks like an open world, western RPG. Don't really see how anyone could think it's not, given what we know.

Yep.

 

[Allonym]

The question has been asked tons of times and its rather obvious from the gameplay focus and mentality of the developers has been from day one. They haven't been hiding some advanced character action game combat when they have talked in detail about the focus on weak points, stripping away specific armor sections, etc.

I'm not around for every thread here or every developer interview. I choose not to believe that Dark Souls combat can't be combined with a game that also treats shooting equally but I mean you guys are entitled to your opinions. I asked a question, it was answered, it should've been put to bed but some people like to hop on bandwagons and beat a dead horse and join in on a dumb gag. Not sure why this had to be revisited.

 

[benny_a]

I'm not around for every thread here or every developer interview. I choose not to believe that Dark Souls combat can't be combined with a game that also treats shooting equally but I mean you guys are entitled to your opinions. I asked a question, it was answered, it should've been put to bed but some people like to hop on bandwagons and beat a dead horse and join in on a dumb gag. Not sure why this had to be revisited.

You could also expand on the idea on how to implement Souls combat in this game. Or just describe an alternative playthrough of the available fights but using melee.

I have no clue how that would be possible without giving up what makes the combat interesting based on the gameplay demo. Just saying "it should have Souls combat" is a played out meme otherwise.

 

[serversurfer]

Yeah, we already have Souls for Souls-like combat. Skulking around in the bushes and shooting robo-dinos with homemade arrows sounds pretty slick to me, thanks.

 

[vanDoughnut]

Robo-dinos, that's all they need to say.

I wonder what night time gameplay is like.

 

[NHarmonic.]

This is going to be amazing, it's my most anticipated right now. Nice to see that it's solid.

 

[Allonym]

You could also expand on the idea on how to implement Souls combat in this game. Or just describe an alternative playthrough of the available fights but using melee.

I have no clue how that would be possible without giving up what makes the combat interesting based on the gameplay demo. Just saying "it should have Souls combat" is a played out meme otherwise.

But I never said "it should have Souls combat", I just thought it would be really great if it did. There's been no reason to jump to conclusions and fault me because my message has clearly been misinterpreted. Imo, Souls has fairly simplistic gameplay, melee combat rather compared to some of its contemporaries. It's possible to fight large creatures using melee and after reaching certain damage thresholds, have the creature keel over thereby exposing critical areas blah blah but have ranged combat be just as potent. Idk it's like no one wants to use their imagination regarding the gameplay. I understand that Guerrilla has a vision in mind, it was just a hope of mine that people took too seriously.

 

[Inuhanyou]

It says a lot that even off camera potato footage of this game looks beautiful. Guerilla definitely needed to show their skills in an environment unrelated to killzone

 

[benny_a]

But I never said "it should have Souls combat", I just thought it would be really great if it did. There's been no reason to jump to conclusions and fault me because my message has clearly been misinterpreted. Imo, Souls has fairly simplistic gameplay, melee combat rather compared to some of its contemporaries. It's possible to fight large creatures using melee and after reaching certain damage thresholds, have the creature keel over thereby exposing critical areas blah blah but have ranged combat be just as potent. Idk it's like no one wants to use their imagination regarding the gameplay. I understand that Guerrilla has a vision in mind, it was just a hope of mine that people took too seriously.

But that sounds way worse than what is being demoed.

Hitting the legs until the monster falls over so you can attack its weak points for massive damage is so overdone.

So based on your imagination the game would actually be a lot less interesting to me if it had Souls combat.

Inspiration from anything but Souls at this point would've been an upgrade. More Shadow of the Colossus, more Attack on Titan, more preparation and traps but one more game where you're hitting a health pool until it keels over is not exciting to me.

It says a lot that even off camera potato footage of this game looks beautiful. Guerilla definitely needed to show their skills in an environment unrelated to killzone

It's great that the talented artists at GG are not shackled KZ any longer. Not that KZ wasn't cool looking (especially KZ2) but it's done.

 

[HStallion]

But I never said "it should have Souls combat", I just thought it would be really great if it did. There's been no reason to jump to conclusions and fault me because my message has clearly been misinterpreted. Imo, Souls has fairly simplistic gameplay, melee combat rather compared to some of its contemporaries. It's possible to fight large creatures using melee and after reaching certain damage thresholds, have the creature keel over thereby exposing critical areas blah blah but have ranged combat be just as potent. Idk it's like no one wants to use their imagination regarding the gameplay. I understand that Guerrilla has a vision in mind, it was just a hope of mine that people took too seriously.

Personally I usually don't care a lot of times when games attempt to do giant monster combat with a normal human sized character because it accounts to little more than chopping away at something's ankles before it falls over. Its played out and unexciting and the Souls games get away with it while very few others do. Its one of the reasons I got bored of a lot of MMO's that had giant epic bosses and most of it was spent standing still spamming DPS attacks or attacking its shins. I'll pass on this idea.

 

[Allonym]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[Croyles]

I always thought the gameplay looked great, but had concerns how much of it was the careful stage presentation and what would carry over to the actual full playing experience. It also looked so finely tuned that it seemed like a LOT of work to put into every encounter. Good to hear that it feels good.

I can very well imagine the story not being great, but as long as the combat is satisfying I will be happy. Seems they really thought about the Killzone complaints.

 

[Skux]

Looks like it falls somewhere between Shadow of Mordor and the Witcher in terms of action game/RPG gameplay.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Looks like it falls somewhere between Shadow of Mordor and the Witcher in terms of action game/RPG gameplay.

But worlds better than both in actual combat.

 

[PeregrinSe7en]

But worlds better than both in actual combat.

i can agree with this. the latter game mentioned has shit tier combat so it won't be hard at all for HZD to top it

 

[The God]

To be fair, the combat isn't why people love Witcher 3

 

[HStallion]

To be fair, the combat isn't why people love Witcher 3

Its serviceable but the real offender is the horse in that game. I'm hoping this game is far more SOTC than the W3.

 

[serversurfer]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

meh Disagree.

Spoiler

I hope it's clear this is a joke. =/

 

[Dalibor68]

I give it a 7/10


Pretty easy.

The Witcher 3:
Main quests
Side quests
Inventory
Crafting
Dialog tree
Levels
Skills to unlock
= RPG

Horizon:
Main quests
Side quests
Inventory
Crafting
Dialog tree
Levels
Skills to unlock
= Not RPG

Again, we haven't seen a single quest that lets you make different decisions with different consequences and we haven't seen any proper dialogue action either (and a simple yes/no dialogue tree doesn't have anything to do with being an RPG, there needs to be some choice / skill checks).

So far this looks to me like a Shadow of Mordor situation where everyone overhypes this until they realize there's no real substance. At least this will be my stance until they show off more than combat and riding.

 

[Nightengale]

Again, we haven't seen a single quest that lets you make different decisions with different consequences and we haven't seen any proper dialogue action either (and a simple yes/no dialogue tree doesn't have anything to do with being an RPG, there needs to be some choice / skill checks).

So far this looks to me like a Shadow of Mordor situation where everyone overhypes this until they realize there's no real substance. At least this will be my stance until they show off more than combat and riding.

As far as we know, the quest system in Horizon is unlikely to be in the veins of Witcher/Mass Effect consequence-multi decision style. The reason is because in all of what's been told to us about Horizon, they've never once said that the quest system has deep branching paths and consequences.

What we do know, is that there are major side-quest in each village/town, layered with smaller side-quest.

I don't know about other people, but even though I'm quite excited for Horizon, I'm excited in the veins of what GG has said this game will be. Stuff that they did not hint at all, (like consequence, deep side-quest) are not components I'm expecting in Horizon at all.

And no, just because the quest system has no consequence/decision trees doesn't somehow disqualify it as an RPG, because JRPGs are largely that way with quest.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Pretty easy.

The Witcher 3:
Main quests
Side quests
Inventory
Crafting
Dialog tree
Levels
Skills to unlock
= RPG

Horizon:
Main quests
Side quests
Inventory
Crafting
Dialog tree
Levels
Skills to unlock
= Not RPG

Whether or not you believe the game will ultimately end up being an RPG, this is a pretty dumbass way to try to define an RPG.

As far as we know, the quest system in Horizon is unlikely to be in the veins of Witcher/Mass Effect consequence-multi decision style. The reason is because in all of what's been told to us about Horizon, they've never once said that the quest system has deep branching paths and consequences.

What we do know, is that there are major side-quest in each village/town, layered with smaller side-quest.

I don't know about other people, but even though I'm quite excited for Horizon, I'm excited in the veins of what GG has said this game will be. Stuff that they did not hint at all, (like consequence, deep side-quest) are not components I'm expecting in Horizon at all.

And no, just because the quest system has no consequence/decision trees doesn't somehow disqualify it as an RPG, because JRPGs are largely that way with quest.

Again, we haven't seen a single quest that lets you make different decisions with different consequences and we haven't seen any proper dialogue action either (and a simple yes/no dialogue tree doesn't have anything to do with being an RPG, there needs to be some choice / skill checks).

So far this looks to me like a Shadow of Mordor situation where everyone overhypes this until they realize there's no real substance. At least this will be my stance until they show off more than combat and riding.

Thus the whole goddamn problem with the term. No one can ever agree what it means, especially in our era of pseudo-RPGs.

People need to step back and think sometimes about the difference between an RPG and a game with RPG elements.

 

[Loudninja]

Whether or not you believe the game will ultimately end up being an RPG, this is a pretty dumbass way to try to define an RPG.

So what defines one?

Anyways this how quests work:

Adding further depth to its open world, Horizon doesn't just have a main narrative to explore. Side quests of all sorts fill that enormous map just screaming 'waste hours in me.' And Guerrilla knows it. “You might notice some of the blue diamonds [marking missions]. Each one of those is a side quest," explains Ford. "You can talk to people and figure out what their problem is, give them some help if they need it. We have a hierarchy of quests."

"We have the main story and then below that we have Tribe quests which are kind of national level. So think of each of these tribes having big picture problems that affect everyone. Then below that there are the more personal stories. Those are some of the things that we’ll see in a place like Mother’s Crown where someone has something that’s very important to them - it’s very urgent but it doesn’t affect the entire world.”

http://www.gamesradar.com/horizon-zero-dawns-world-is-bigger-than-we-ever-imagined/

 

[Planet]

So now that branching quest lines are the defining aspect of an RPG, I just learned that I played a ton of non-RPGs in the 80s and 90s even though they were called that back then. Interesting.

 

[Pinko Marx]

The devs have said this is an RPG. I see no reason at this moment to call them big fat liars.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

So what defines one?

I never purported to have a good definition, especially given that I think it's an increasingly useless term as we get more and more divorced from the D&D origins and as we see more and more games sticking RPG elements in their games.

Main quests
Side quests
Inventory
Crafting
Dialog tree
Levels
Skills to unlock
= RPG

If you claim this is what makes an RPG an RPG, you'd throw a lot of games under the bus.

 

[The Pope]

We havent seen Alloy take one decision in a dialogue option. Edit: Currently no dialogue options that indicate a potential for branching questlines.

 

[Nightengale]

We havent seen Alloy take one decision in a dialogue option. Edit: Currently no dialogue options that indicate a potential for branching questlines.

Nor have devs hinted at it yet. Not saying it's not in, but it's not something the devs have specifically promised will be part of the game's questing system either.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

The devs have said this is an RPG. I see no reason at this moment to call them big fat liars.

They also said that your decisions will have an impact in the late game.

But Final Fantasy games are not RPGs now because they usually don't have decision making. This discussion, wether it is an RPG are not, seems pretty stupid if I am being honest.

Nor have devs hinted at it yet. Not saying it's not in, but it's not something the devs have specifically promised will be part of the game's questing system either.

https://youtu.be/lP92CR4H1Xs?t=2m28s

 

[Loudninja]

They not using dialogue options for branching paths the quests themselves change the world.

They also said that your decisions will have an impact in the late game.

But Final Fantasy games are not RPGs now because they usually don't have decision making. This discussion, wether it is an RPG are not, seems pretty stupid if I am being honest.



https://youtu.be/lP92CR4H1Xs?t=2m28s

Thanks for that vid.

 

[Nightengale]

https://youtu.be/lP92CR4H1Xs?t=2m28s

Didn't know that. Thanks.

 

[Dalibor68]

So now that branching quest lines are the defining aspect of an RPG, I just learned that I played a ton of non-RPGs in the 80s and 90s even though they were called that back then. Interesting.

He was comparing Witcher 3 to what we know about Horizon. Witcher 3 obviously has more RPG elements from what we know so far, such as a proper dialogue system with skill checks and different outcomes as well as (side and main) quests that have an impact and branching paths.

So since we've only seen combat gameplay and machine riding so far (and "stealth" consisting of the bushes from AC:BF / Shadow of Mordor), which to me look pretty standard(slow down time and shoot the glowing bits) except maybe for the trapping, I look at the other systems they talk about and don't see anything special either. Having non-throwaway sidequests should be a standard, not something that needs applauding. Yet many people seem to fall over backwards with all the overhyping, in similar vain to No Man's Sky or how Shadow of Mordor was hyped until the eventual (postrelease) "oh this is pretty stale actually".

Add to this Guerilla Games' portfolio so far imo isn't exactly mindblowing either. They have only done Killzone, of which KZ2 was a good game but nothing too outstanding and the rating I think was mostly due to years of hype + the scoring system back then essentially giving any big-budget AAA game high scores. KZ3 was rather boring / just a rehash of KZ2 with icey graphics this time around(but fun in coop). KZ Shadowfall seems to have flopped. But somehow now their next game will be this amazing great thing?

Now I realize I might sound very cynical. This game might very well turn out to be very good. But I'm just not seeing these awesome tidbits that appearantly gets so many so (in my opinion wrongly over-)hyped.

 

[benny_a]

Whether or not you believe the game will ultimately end up being an RPG, this is a pretty dumbass way to try to define an RPG.

I'm having a laugh at others that try to define one as a RPG and not the other.

You need to get real specific about what you some how think makes one and not the other without throwing classic staples of the genre out under the bus.
Not that we didn't already have that a year ago and then somehow new reasons why it doesn't qualify are made up, as soon as some aspects are confirmed for this game.

He was comparing Witcher 3 to what we know about Horizon. Witcher 3 obviously has more RPG elements from what we know so far, such as a proper dialogue system with skill checks and different outcomes as well as (side and main) quests that have an impact and branching paths.

Obviously. As long as it's repeatedly asserted it must be true.

Isn't this game where devs said you can create a quest for a specific item or material? or am I mistaking it for something else?

Yeah

 

[EGOMON]

Isn't this game where devs said you can create a quest for a specific item or material? or am I mistaking it for something else?

 

[The God]

Isn't this game where devs said you can create a quest for a specific item or material? or am I mistaking it for something else?

Yes

 

[Shin-chan]

Was The Witcher 3 even an RPG? I consider it more a choose your own adventure with light combat and customisation elements.

Like, if you compare Rise of the Tomb Raider to TW3 they're basically the same thing, only one has much more text. So it's clearly a text adventure.

 

[veloxStrix]

I'm still skeptical about this game, but I'm glad that it is starting to look like I was wrong to have low expectations. Excellent stuff coming from Camp GG.

I give it a 7/10


Pretty easy.

The Witcher 3:
Main quests
Side quests
Inventory
Crafting
Dialog tree
Levels
Skills to unlock
= RPG

Far Cry 4:
Main quests
Side quests
Inventory
Crafting
Dialog tree
Levels
Skills to unlock
= RPG

Not exactly compelling.