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I really don't like how video game music is no longer, well, video game music

Linkyn

Member
What I hate the most is orchestral music. Its not memorable at all in most cases.

Thinking a bit more about this, a lot depends on the effect you're going for. The galaxy games have a rather bombastic orchestrated soundtrack, and that works because it supports the astronomical scope and theme of the games.

On the other end of the spectrum you have a lot of Jeremy Soule's work, which is intended to give an atmospheric baseline. Often, you don't notice how big a difference even a subdued theme makes until you play without it for a while.
 

Ulysses 31

Member
Nintendo's the worst offender in my opinion.
This company had some of the greatest, catchiest tunes in the industry.

Now it has elevator music.
So sad.

AbeOik6.jpg
 

artsi

Member
From recent games I liked Witcher 3's music a lot. But mostly it's been JRPG's with memorable tunes for me.
 

Oneself

Member
While I agree in a way, I'd say it's mostly due to a lack of great compositions and fitting composers.
Everyone tries to copy everyone else, vg music composers now excel at being jacks of all trades and they hide their personality as far as possible from their work because that's the only way to get steady work in that domain. And well, many will score a game because they couldn't get a movie gig.

That being said, ambient music doesn't mean it can't be memorable or catchy.
TLOU's music is some of the catchiest, most memorable I've heard in 30 years. So was Kow Otani's SOTC and Jesper Kyd's Hitman.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
You know a dream of mine is for a larger scale developer, maybe not AAA but someone like Platinum Games or maybe From Software hiring an epic old school videogame composer like Yuzo Koshiro. That was the man who gave us the Streets of Rage soundtracks and if I could get one more large pumping videogamey techno soundtrack on par with SOR2, I'd be in heaven!
 

oti

Banned
Every game should have the option of switching between whatever the game's soundtrack is and Guile's Theme.

Everyone's happy.

SFV Guile's Theme is so disappointing though. I ran the numbers and the disappointing version of the song is THE reason it tanked. SCIENCE.
 
I really hate the "gotta be epic!" orchestral score push most games tend to go for these days. Devs should listen to orchestra music that has a sense of melody and progression, instead of the ones using it as an excuse for two instruments cycling between two chords for five minutes.
 

kevm3

Member
Something I really hope doesn't catch on is using actual songs in games not based on mimicking reality like GTA... for example, the 'lean on me' used in the FF15 trailer was awful.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I disagree, although I used to think this as well.

World of WarCraft's music is incredibly atmospheric and benefits greatly for it. Imagine exploring snowy mountains to this:

Dun Morogh

Many games still have very memorable tracks that you'd be hard pressed to find elsewhere:

Johnny Joestar's saxophone jam

This is from the recently released Dragon Ball Z: Extreme Butoden and sounds both video game-y AND like hard rock:

Dying Planet Namek

Occasionally you'll get games go for a techno vibe you won't often see elsewhere. Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes perfectly captured the essence of Gray Fox in this theme, title included:

Soldier vs. Ghost

Also of note is that this music is repetitive and fairly simple, like older game music.

Persona is mixing it up with some greatly stylized tracks that I've grown to love after initially being weirded out by:

Want to be Close

Indie games are pumping out some of the best tunes of all time, too. Freedom Planet gave us this:

Thermal Base 1

TL;DR - old game music is awesome. Trust me, I agree on that point - it used to be all I listened to as a wee lad. But the new stuff is just as good. Sometimes in a different way, sometimes in the old timey way. We've got more variety now, and we're better off for it.
 

Ansatz

Member
World of WarCraft's music is incredibly atmospheric and benefits greatly for it:

Dun Morogh

I guess for me it's that I don't want to play a game that conveys this type of atmosphere that demands calm music, it's not that I find this track bad but it's not the kind of experience I'm looking for.

The main reason why I'm frustrated is the change within franchises I used to follow, they either modernized or don't exist anymore. As I highlighted in my two examples, going from Castlevania OoE to Castlevania LoS is what bothers me deeply, because I no longer care for one of my favorite franchises which I've been following for decades since the original on NES.

WoW doesn't bother me even if this particular track is unappealing to me, because the game wasn't made in place for one I care about.

There used to be something I liked, now it doesn't exist anymore and in its place we got something I don't like. That's the problem.
 
If the original songs from the series were trying to get a realistic instrument sound and it's memorable, I have no problem with orchestral versions (Starfox, Mario Galaxy).

However, as much as I love the new Ratchet and Clank, the music feels so flat and generic compared to the first games... It's really saddening.
 

terrible

Banned
If anything I think game soundtracks have improved significantly over time. We used to really only get simple melodies but now they are so much more diverse. There's something for everyone.
 
I cannot agree at all. Good music is good music regardless of how it sounds. Belittling the amazing soundtracks in gaming today is ridiculous. Bloodborne, Life is Strange, Dark Souls 3,Red Dead Redemption, The Last of Us, Halo, Dragon's Dogma and a plethora of other games all have excellent soundtracks.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I guess for me it's that I don't want to play a game that conveys this type of atmosphere that demands calm music, it's not that I find this track bad but it's not the kind of experience I'm looking for.

The main reason why I'm frustrated is the change within franchises I used to follow, they either modernized or don't exist anymore. As I highlighted in my two examples, going from Castlevania OoE to Castlevania LoS is what bothers me deeply, because I no longer care for one of my favorite franchises which I've been following for decades since the original on NES.

WoW doesn't bother me even if this particular track is unappealing to me, because the game wasn't made in place for one I care about.

There used to be something I liked, now it doesn't exist anymore and in its place we got something I don't like. That's the problem.
LoS was an intentional genre shift and is an unfair comparison to make a blanket statement with. Look at the other stuff I posted - DBZ and Freedom Planet in particular. It's still game-y, it just doesn't use chiptunes anymore.

I cannot agree at all. Good music is good music regardless of how it sounds. Belittling the amazing soundtracks in gaming today is ridiculous. Bloodborne, Life is Strange, Dark Souls 3,Red Dead Redemption, The Last of Us, Halo, Dragon's Dogma and a plethora of other games all have excellent soundtracks.
Funny enough, I vehemently agree with the concept of this post but do not like a single soundtrack listed. lol
 

ys45

Member
I agree with you OP a lot of games (mostly western games) tend to adopt the movie style of music (a la Lord of the Ring) but a lot of them are still memorable .
Witcher 3,Doom 2016,Mass Effect series got very good music for example .

As for the Japanese games, vgm is still very good and like the old days (but in better quality) and I still find good soundtrack with recent games .
I recently played Legend of Heroes Sen No Kiseki and the music was just awesome (Falcom never disappoint me with their music).

And yes if you want something more old school you have to check out indie games .
 

MikeyB

Member
There are plenty of games which have huge open areas which keep the same music throughout.

One example is Xenoblade, where you can spend hours exploring a single area and only mainly (exception being battles) hearing 2 tracks-the daytime version and nighttime version of the area theme. The music is great enough that it never becomes repetitive though.

I'm not denying that, but the OP specifically mentioned SF2 and catchy little loops. I don't think those work well in games with areas of longer continuous play.
 

The Orz

Member
Just now some street fighter 2 tunes popped in my playlist and automatically started whistling every single note. On the other hand played a lot of Street Fighter 4 and I can't remember a single stage track - "indestructible" still won't go away, the one memorable track in that game because you hear it everywhere - .

I don't follow this. There are 44 individual character themes in the final edition of the game, the majority of which are based on the original themes of returning characters. You can argue the quality, of course, but the character themes are still very "video gamey." I'm not a fan of many of the stage themes, but they're still not ambient--they are grounded in catchy pop and techno tunes.

Setting aside games that depend on ambient sounds and scores, is it that you just miss music that was dictated by the limitations of the hardware (8- and 16-bit scores)?
 
It does seem that when I think of memorable video game music I usually think about something from PS1 era or earlier.

I feel SF:IV just has a weak soundtrack overall, though. The only character themes that I find especially good, off the top of my head, are Gen and Cody's. SF:V seems to have a great soundtrack on the strength of Rashid's theme alone.
 

DedValve

Banned
I don't know what counts as "videogame music" as its all just different musical genres that are usually associated with certain game genres such as chiptunes and 2d retro style platformers.

I still find plenty of great tunes all around, Zelda has knockout quality each game (wind waker being my favorite), Bayonetta is on point, Metal Gear Rising is HYPE AS FUCK, Killer Instinct is also HYPE AS FUCK, Resident Evil has some great tunes with the standout imo being Outbreak. Dragons Dogma, Kingdom Hearts, Mass Effect etc. the list goes on for me, all extremely memorable.

I'd say Mass Effect nailed "iconic". I can still hear the "do do do do do do" from the map screen.

Out of all I listed I probably like Wind Wakers and Mass Effects most but only by a little since I loved everything I listed. Now if you'll excuse me the wind is pushing meeeeeeee~~~

EDIT: I'll add links

Mass Effect - Galaxy Map: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtS3BRC9MDM
Wind Waker - Dragon Roos Island - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXGGvsHq6iA
Bayo 2 - Moon River Climax - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXhhdNL05sY
TJ Combo Themes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JapDyUwAu8
Kingdom Hearts 2 Dearly Beloved (Nailed the disney feel) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG1pRNQAByI
 

LakeEarth

Member
I was thinking something similar with Street Fighter 5's music. Everyone loves the Rashid theme because it has a very obvious hook and the music is distinct. Then you look at the themes of some of the other characters, and most of it is just white noise. The music in 2, 3 and Alpha were so much more distinct.
 
OP, it's really weird that you bring up Zelda as your main example. Every Zelda game has tons of wonderful and memorable music, so much so that when orchestras perform Zelda concerts they sell out like crazy. I mean, have you heard Ballad of the Goddess? And that's from Skyward Sword! No way the quality of Zelda music has gone down, not at all. I get what you are saying about games having scores very similar to movies, but the Zelda series is not an example of that.
 

Llyrwenne

Unconfirmed Member
Could not disagree more.

'Videogame music' has simply become more varied just as games themselves have become more varied, and that is not a bad thing at all. Different kinds of music can play different kinds of roles in different kinds of games. You still have the old 'classic' type of music in many indie games, it's just that there are now other types of games that benefit from more ambient / orchestral soundtracks ( or even no music at all, like The Witness ). There's plenty to enjoy for everyone and really no need to make any specific type of music out to be somehow inherently worse than the other.

Here, have some;

Undertale - Bonetrousle - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqzBv3FYpr0
The Last of Us - Vanishing Grace - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIL4iETMB-0
Tearaway - The Orchard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmRgjIIaomU
Journey - The Road of Trials - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdG-e_Joc8Q
Killzone 2 - Helghan Forever - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPPXnU4vR2k
Stardew Valley - Pelican Town - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_DaayzaOOA
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Boat Ride - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4dDQso-Yss
Dragon Age Inquisition - Sera Was Never - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Zkun0tJc4
Guacamelee - Temple of Rain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_F7-w3GlY8
Sunless Sea - Wolfstack Lights - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2KbscDqnMo
Uncharted 4: A Thief's End - Race to Libertalia - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6uCO_rWuh8

Don't like anything I listed? That's fine; there's plenty of other stuff to find out there! Music used in games is more varied now and the games we get are better for it.
 

RM8

Member
If the original songs from the series were trying to get a realistic instrument sound and it's memorable, I have no problem with orchestral versions (Starfox, Mario Galaxy).

However, as much as I love the new Ratchet and Clank, the music feels so flat and generic compared to the first games... It's really saddening.
Hey now, we don't want this video game to have an overly video game-y soundtrack!
 
If anything there's more variety in game music than ever and it's great.
Across the vast spectrum from the simplest of indies to the biggest budget AAA titles there's a bit of everything and a ton of talented composers.

Now yeah while the AAA side of things can end up with some more generic filmic stuff more often than not that often accompanies the games that are kinda generic in tone anyway so no big loss.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
I tend to agree. I don't care for the "generic Hollywood orchestra" style of soundtrack myself. My favourite OSTs are typically from the 32-bit era, where they had better "chiptune" tools (or outright access to real instruments and orchestras) but still with the notion of having memorable composition instead of just bland movie-like scores.

Obviously you can't have, say, blazing rock guitars for something like The Last of Us, but I still feel most AAA games have lacking soundtracks outside of maybe 1 or 2 themes.

Few recent AAA (or AA, at least, non-indie) games these days have soundtracks I'd really call great, and those that do, are typically Japanese games, like Bloodborne, Dark Souls, Monster Hunter, and Dragon's Dogma, plus the Falcom games like Ys and Trails in the Sky (not really AAA but not indie either). There are exceptions, though.

Like, The Witcher 3's OST really surprised me. Most of the OST is folk music which fit well and sound good on its own. I think it's also an underused style in game soundtracks (outside of some Japanese games), and way more interesting than "Hollywood score".

Hmm, outside of that I can't think of a recent AAA western game that had an OST I really liked... oh, maybe Rayman Legends! Christophe Héral is pretty badass.

I blame it on composers. When the music is good, an orchestra will make it all better (see phoenix Wright), but a lot of orchestral themes these days are boring and uninspired. Most of the times they seem to be there just to add to the "epicness".
Yup.
 

Aureon

Please do not let me serve on a jury. I am actually a crazy person.
Undertale & FFXIV carried last year, luckily.

Most western games never cared for that style of bgm.
 
That's the reason Michiru Yamane stuff is so superior to the Hollywood-like sound of the last castlevania games.

Check SOTN OST, filled with more gothic music, upbeat music, guitars, pianos.... is incredibly ecleptic filled with great compositions. It mixes a lot of styles with great effect, setting the mood for every of the different areas in the game perfectly.

Then you listen Castlevania: Lords of Shadow OST and is like I'm watching the last Hans Zimmer generic music production.

I think you can have orchestrated music in games, but needs to be done in a manner than dosn't directly look at movies, but rather understands the medium.

Stuff like Kirill Pokrovsky Divinty OST's is beautifully orchestrated but is not like I'm listening to the latest super hollywood production.

DQ VIII is another great example of this.
 

Nzyme32

Member
What I hate the most is orchestral music. Its not memorable at all in most cases.

Both agree and disagree. The worst are like this, and generally are poor anyway, but there are excellent scores for games that are composed around a clear motif / theme that give them an identifiable quality specific to the game. I don't really think games need "hooks" anymore, but again this only applys to orchestral really. The story is quite different in other games that don't bother with an orchestral style
 

Ranmo

Member
I totally agree OP and I've felt this way for years. There are still a handful of games that make good video game music, and indies still make good tunes but yeah, the vast majority of games have generic soundtracks or rely on orchestrated music too much.

This first started hitting me with final boss themes. They used to be so rad but now they are mostly orchestrated and I don't like them at all. Not that orchestrated music out of game is bad or something, but it just isn't what I want from a video games soundtrack.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
That's the reason Michiru Yamane stuff is so superior to the Hollywood-like sound of the last castlevania games.

Check SOTN OST, filled with more gothic music, upbeat music, guitars, pianos.... is incredibly ecleptic filled with great compositions. It mixes a lot of styles with great effect, setting the mood for every of the different areas in the game perfectly.

Then you listen Castlevania: Lords of Shadow OST and is like I'm watching the last Hans Zimmer generic music production.
So true. I also hate how people said "oh the rocking tunes wouldn't fit the atmosphere of LoS" -- so what? SotN wasn't just rocking tunes, as you said it has nice eerie atmospheric ones too, piano, baroque themes, etc. Stuff like Dance of Gold (Alchemy Laboratory), Dance of Pearls (Olrox's Quarter), Requiem for the Gods (Chapel), Tower of Mist, Abandoned Mines, etc. all would fit something like LoS really well without being boring and unmemorable. Pretty ironic that the best LoS track and the only one I found memorable ended up being a remake of a Castlevania IV track, lol.

I think Hans Zimmer is more versatile than you give him credit though, it's just that everyone wants him to do generic epic score #123. Check out stuff like Beyond Rangoon for a really nice OST with a different style.

Love me some Monster Hunter music

http://youtu.be/auE4CYwszco?list=PL-...ch_5E59saHc1Ed

It helps the gameplay, it sets the mood of the fight and each monster is well represented with its theme.

Like MH itself, its music FEELS like a video game (without relaying on sounding retro), not like a AAA cinematic "experieeence".
Fuck yeah. Love the Zinogre theme. Nargacuga as well. MH has some really good composers. Some of them worked on Dragon's Dogma too I believe, and it shows. Imminent Triumph or Griffin's Bane wouldn't be out of place in an MH game.
 
I tend to agree. I don't care for the "generic Hollywood orchestra" style of soundtrack myself. My favourite OSTs are typically from the 32-bit era, where they had better "chiptune" tools (or outright access to real instruments and orchestras) but still with the notion of having memorable composition instead of just bland movie-like scores.

same here, i love that a handful of indies in the last few years (and still to come) have picked up that sound.

Escape Goat 2 - Restoration
Escape Goat 2 - The Finest Literature
Myrone - Exclusive Coupe (from Drift Stage)
Lifeformed - Cider Time (from Dustforce)
 
So true. I also hate how people said "oh the rocking tunes wouldn't fit the atmosphere of LoS" -- so what? SotN wasn't just rocking tunes, as you said it has nice eerie atmospheric ones too, piano, baroque themes, etc. Stuff like Dance of Gold (Alchemy Laboratory), Dance of Pearls (Olrox's Quarter), Requiem for the Gods (Chapel), Tower of Mist, Abandoned Mines, etc. all would fit something like LoS really well without being boring and unmemorable. Pretty ironic that the best LoS track and the only one I found memorable ended up being a remake of a Castlevania IV track, lol.

I think Hans Zimmer is more versatile than you give him credit though, it's just that everyone wants him to do generic epic score #123. Check out stuff like Beyond Rangoon for a really nice OST with a different style.

Yeah, stuff like Metamorphosis themes are very short, but shows well Yamane's versatilty, probably most people remember the upbeat songs but for me the more memorable are the ones you posted.

Also, I mentioned Hans Zimmer because is the one who came to my mind when I think of Hollywood-esque music. I recognize I mostly know him by those generic compositions, I'll check Beyond Rangoon.
 

Ansatz

Member
LoS was an intentional genre shift and is an unfair comparison to make a blanket statement with. Look at the other stuff I posted - DBZ and Freedom Planet in particular. It's still game-y, it just doesn't use chiptunes anymore.

Being relegated to small scale games is part of the point, I have to rely on kickstarter campaigns and hope they turn out great only to get a small taste of what gaming used to be like. How is it a blanket statement when nothing interests me anymore? Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid are franchises I once considered must haves but they have also modernized to the extent I don't want to play recent entries.

I want games made in this tone: TimeSplitters 2 and The Wonderful 101. These are just fantastic, I find the cutscenes extremely appealing and entertaining while I don't care for story sequences at all in say Uncharted or The Witcher, the serious nature of the games is just boring to me. I need something that's over the top and crazy.

Check out this cute/charming animation & sound effect the extra life statue makes: Let's Play Banjo-Kazooie. Nowadays something like a character's idle animation is the equivalent of a real life guy standing in line while scratching his back and stuff, it's really ridiculous and off-putting.
 
I think this is more of an east vs west thing. Western composers are more influenced by Hollywood and addressing composition from that angle.
 
Completely disagree. There's a significantly wider variety of video game music now compared to how it was two decades ago. Though I'm not particular fond of most video game music from the SNES/PS1 era so I'm probably a bit biased.
 

Nesther

Member
I agree 1000000% with this.

I love the new DooM. But uh, where's the kickin' tunes? Where's my jams? Only when some big fight breaks out there's music. But that makes makes the exploring really boring IMO.

And it's why I can't get into a lot of games. If there's no music, it feels SO empty to me. It's really lame.

The ambient music in DOOM is incredible, especially with headphones on. I like the ups and downs,it makes a combat encounter that much more intense.
 
What I miss the most is the music EA did for Need for Speed between the end of the 90s and mid 2000's.

The custom music created for Need for Speed 3, 4 and Porsche Unleashed are incredible.

They went with licensed music after, what a huge loss.
 
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