With how I am with music generally, I can't agree to this. I'm cool with shorter loopy stuff if it fits. Grand orchestral tracks if they fit (FFXV is shaping up to be one of the all time great VG OSTs imo). Rock tracks like Guilty Gear or FFXIV primals. Give me everything. Just like music in general. I want it all.
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I really don't like how video game music is no longer, well, video game music
- Thread starter Chao
- Start date
Disagree, Witcher 3 has incredible orchestrated music that is better anything during the period you mention. In fact Im relived knowing we'll not have to listen to poor quality electronic/midi tracks any more. The tracks then were good for that time, but would ruin a game today unless it's a handheld game.
Yeah, same with something like Talesweaver (it's a PC mmorpg but most of it's soundtrack gives me that ps1-2ish vibe which makes sense since it was released in the early 2000's), Great soundtrack to boot and fit the game very well.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Thank the Lord for Jake Kaufman.
JinjoUnchained
Member
Yeah, your traditional chip tune ear worms did give older games personality. And many modern games trend toward ambient sound design that can blend together.
However, ambient music is really another kind of music, and it can be immersive and evocative in the hands of a talented composer. Like these two examples from Fez and Witcher 3:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=1y5szNZehps
https://youtube.com/watch?list=PLgJZQv8L8x5nl1J0gvkIc5EKIaL_eaF0p¶ms=OAFIAVgu&v=n4vG1KuLIVY&mode=NORMAL
And there's still plenty of great traditional game music too. Skyward Sword had my all time favorite boss music...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MzL4IA16k78
However, ambient music is really another kind of music, and it can be immersive and evocative in the hands of a talented composer. Like these two examples from Fez and Witcher 3:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=1y5szNZehps
https://youtube.com/watch?list=PLgJZQv8L8x5nl1J0gvkIc5EKIaL_eaF0p¶ms=OAFIAVgu&v=n4vG1KuLIVY&mode=NORMAL
And there's still plenty of great traditional game music too. Skyward Sword had my all time favorite boss music...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MzL4IA16k78
The older Ratchet games had some great tunes. I think it was either Up Your Arsenal or Tools of Destruction that started going for more cinematic music.
Gremlik Base and Tabora Mining Area are my favorite songs from the series.
Edit: OP, I also think your complaint has to do more with bad video game soundtracks rather than cinematic. The God of War series have highly cinematic soundtracks yet are still memorable and distinct.
How did video game music got worse? Isn't that a trick question?
I can understand a fair chunk of modern video game music has become a lot less memorable, as a number of tunes don't exactly have a strong, memorable melodies that will stick to you even after you completed the game. But I personally like how things are now. There's a place for music that immerse you into the experience (Silent Hill 2) & having catchy, iconic theme songs. We also have the likes of Danny Elfman & Harry Gregson Williams contributing some fantastic, memorable songs, & a lot of the veterans from the ol' days are still composing music, even working with younger composers that grew up with listening to their work.
Go To Sleep & Jupiter's Thunder from Child of Light, Splattack!, Hooked & Ink Me Up! from Splatoon, Satorl Marsh (Night) from Xenoblade Chronicles, the whole OST for Gravity Ghost & Apotheon...
There is still some fantastic music coming out, both from the major publishers and the smaller developers. You just got to know where to look.
I can understand a fair chunk of modern video game music has become a lot less memorable, as a number of tunes don't exactly have a strong, memorable melodies that will stick to you even after you completed the game. But I personally like how things are now. There's a place for music that immerse you into the experience (Silent Hill 2) & having catchy, iconic theme songs. We also have the likes of Danny Elfman & Harry Gregson Williams contributing some fantastic, memorable songs, & a lot of the veterans from the ol' days are still composing music, even working with younger composers that grew up with listening to their work.
Go To Sleep & Jupiter's Thunder from Child of Light, Splattack!, Hooked & Ink Me Up! from Splatoon, Satorl Marsh (Night) from Xenoblade Chronicles, the whole OST for Gravity Ghost & Apotheon...
There is still some fantastic music coming out, both from the major publishers and the smaller developers. You just got to know where to look.
Doug Heffernan
Member
New Killer Instinct is the best example of great modern video game music. It's bombastic, ridiculous yet very well composed. It's the type of music that just couldn't exist in any other form of media.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Yes. Yes. Yes!
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
No non-videogame music for us - https://soundcloud.com/hyperduck/sets/cosmic-star-heroine-previews
Off the top of my head, the only thing that fits 2D AAA game would be the recent Rayman games. I'd love to see somebody make a AAA 2D turn-based JRPG.
Off the top of my head, the only thing that fits 2D AAA game would be the recent Rayman games. I'd love to see somebody make a AAA 2D turn-based JRPG.
Video game music is largely trash now. There are exceptions but you get a whole bunch of lazy devs making generic orchestral music. Nothing stands out. The music in MKX wasn't orchestral but it was a disappointment for me, especially since the old games had classic tracks.
For good game music, see Stellaris. The soundtrack is great.
For good game music, see Stellaris. The soundtrack is great.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Hopefully Persona 5 comes with some memorable tunes. I can remember P3 and P4 OSTs well.
Guest starring Lady GaGa.
Edit: I also largely disagree that orchestral soundtracks are garbage. They don't have to be memorable to be good. DS3 has an amazing ambient soundtrack around the levels that really ramp up fro bosses. (All the other ones too) Because they fit the themes of the game, the game as a whole benefits from this laid back soundtrack as well as making the boss themes more memorable.
Guest starring Lady GaGa.
Edit: I also largely disagree that orchestral soundtracks are garbage. They don't have to be memorable to be good. DS3 has an amazing ambient soundtrack around the levels that really ramp up fro bosses. (All the other ones too) Because they fit the themes of the game, the game as a whole benefits from this laid back soundtrack as well as making the boss themes more memorable.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Child of Light? Though IMO it was kind of disappointing...
them lazy devs furiously typing at them lazy keyboards
Child of Light was one of Ubisoft's smaller projects. Not sure if it constitutes "AAA".
krizalidzero
Member
The problem is not that it is orchestral, think SOTN and others, the problem is the trend of hiring the same douchebags that make movie music (which nowadays is crap, all of it extremely unmemorable), and when not, AAA producers will ask for a "movie style soundtrack".
I also want to add that I hate Gregson Williams, a lot of people think he's some kind of genius but anything good he ever did was based in the previous MGS soundtracks, plus he didn't compose the whole MGS2 one either
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yes, but it's still Ubisoft, they tend to have more resources than regular indies.
What's the category for that? AA?
I'm not talking about coders. I'm talking about the studio heads who think game music isn't important, giving the majority of the budget to graphics or something else. Game music is not a priority anymore.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Yes, but it's still Ubisoft, they tend to have more resources than regular indies.
What's the category for that? AA?
Nah, Child of Light is more along the lines of "Big indie game" than anything else - something like Mark of the Ninja where you have a few dozen people working on the game. Examples of AA RPGs would be something like a Tales game or Xenoblade Chronicles X where it's a retail game but clearly had a drastically smaller budget than something like FFXV or even Persona 5.
Yes, but it's still Ubisoft, they tend to have more resources than regular indies.
What's the category for that? AA?
Well, I'm not sure the game had anything more than a decent budget, and I can't see it all being blown on music/sound, unless someone high up is pushing for it with a solid reason.
On the topic of 2D platformers with a budget though, I'm not sure if Ori and the Blind Forest counts, but dear Lord the soundtrack for that is drop dead gorgeous (and has been mentioned a couple of times in the thread)
Still not sure how that translates to 'lazy' though ;p
Nor the other point about budget, as orchestral is far, far more costly to produce, even if everything's coming out of a box and not recorded live.
I'm not disagreeing that I think many/more games could have a little more diversity in their soundtrack, I'm just pointing out that neither laziness nor a lack of budget are the factors that contribute to what people may opine as 'generic film music'.
This pretty much. Also a soundtrack can be good without being memorable. Is the entire soundtrack for Mass Effect 1 good? Yes. Is it memorable? Outside of the main theme and galaxy map? Not really.
Mario Galaxy 1 is full on orchestrated, but each theme will get stuck in your head. There are plenty of great game soundtracks these days, but the ones that truly shine are those that dont try to mimic big movie soundtracks of today, but simply try to provide a soundtrack that matches each scene/area/situation perfectly.
On that note, if they are going movie routes, they need to go 90s movie.
I mean listen to The Dream from Total Recall. Something like this would be amazing in a modern sci-fi game.
EDIT: Of course im also one of the few people that thinks FFXII and Tactics have that whistlability™ quality that people are looking for. Bayonetta as well. I can instantly recall alot of tracks from those games.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Wait for Zelda U
krizalidzero
Member
Absolutely! I was gonna mention that in my post too, 90s movie soundtracks (and even TV shows) were very good and memorable, each movie had an identity and clear themes, it's post 2000s that everything went "wrong".
Only Japanese games (other than indie games) seem to come out with great music lately.
What I mean by lazy is that it seems to me, they aren't looking for a composer who can add something unique to the game. Instead they're looking for someone safe who can check the music box for them. Doom is an example of iD finding someone who can add a flavor to their game that adds to the overall experience.
protomouse
Member
It's an unfortunate side effect of the cinematic blockbuster trend.
Another thing that went to shit is EA. They had a great team of composers working on NFS and their sports franchises. Now it's all licensed EA Trax crap.
Another thing that went to shit is EA. They had a great team of composers working on NFS and their sports franchises. Now it's all licensed EA Trax crap.
Bony Manifesto
Member
Maybe not laziness, but as an avid listener of Emily Reese's excellent video game music podcasts (which have been mentioned in this thread), you do get a sense that there are some composers who have no passion for the medium and will just knock out some variations on the of TV and film scores they've done before. Conversely, there are composers who really get it and put a lot of thought into what they're doing.
The worrying thing is that a lot of the composers who do appear to put the effort in are very frequently the ones creating what people would term as 'generic orchestral music', and the ones that don't seem to care very often create some real crowd-pleasers.
Waddle Dee
Member
It really depends on what type of game you're playing. Most triple A games have bland soundtracks but there are still plenty of hidden gems. That said, I do admittedly listen to game music that's at least a decade old a lot more than whatever is recent.
Are you specifically referring to dungeon music here? Because of all the games that you struggle to remember more than one piece of music from, this game should pretty much be bottom of that list.
I'm still going to have to disagree here. Far more often than you might presume from the not far more thought goes into who to get as a composer than you give music supervisors/directors credit for. It might not be what -you- dig, (and that's totally fine) but a lot of the time it's not trying to be 'safe'.
It'd be like saying Nathan Drake and UC4's look is safe, (Well... an argument can be made there hahaha) and UC4 looks far more like a movie than pixellated Indiana Jones did in Fate of Atlantis.
I think overall, people have a far more opinionated take on music than art direction in games, since music as a medium exists separate from video games and permeates our world (so does visual artistry, mind you) and we're so used to having a choice of what music we want to hear, out of all bands and acts and genres and fads that are alive and well today, that we are much less inclined to accept when a game, as a package, hands us ______ type of music and tells us it's part of the game's intentional aesthetic, as opposed to when a game, as a package, hands us ______ as an artstyle or visual direction and tells us it's a part of the game's intentional aesthetic.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen for visuals (see when something tries to be pixellated for the sake of being pixellated, or when people start arguing whether MGS or FFXV or Persona 5 looks better) but people generally seem to have less of an 'ownership' over what kind of visual direction a game has as opposed to what kind of soundtrack direction a game has.
I personally love catchy, memorable melodies, but a subdued soundtrack, or one that doesn't draw attention to itself, can and often is a very deliberate aesthetic decision. And yes, a LOT of it has to do with trends that didn't exist 20 years ago, e.g. deliberately staying out of the way of dialogue, because story legibility trumps everything in priority.
Stuff like God of War, Uncharted (we have a thread right now comparing 1-3 to 4's soundtrack), Halo, are all very commonly brought up when people discuss 'is east or west game music better lol'
BluePikmin11
Member
I feel like most big AAA titles from Sony and Microsoft do this a lot, and I feel it's the reason it seems like VG music seems to lose its identity.
Bumbletron
Member
Thank you so much for this. As a composer, and really as a consumer as a whole, I can't quite understand why people feel the need to lament the supposed prevalence of x genre. Video games are bigger now than they have ever been, and just about every genre is producing more quality material than it ever had. I can guarantee that if you look, you can find more video games with music that fits your preferences than you can ever play.
This is becoming something people notice more because EVERYTHING in video games is becoming more prevalent.
dreamlongdead
Member
I definitely prefer the gamey type of music, too. A lot of indie games I've played still have those amazingly hummable tunes from the early generations.
Music was just never the same for me after the PS2 era. The entire period from NES to PS2 contains so many of my favorite tracks.
Music was just never the same for me after the PS2 era. The entire period from NES to PS2 contains so many of my favorite tracks.
Theanine3D
Member
While your concerns definitely apply to some games out there, others are still keeping traditions alive. Super Mario 3D World had possibly the best soundtrack in the entire Mario franchise, or at least close to best (Galaxy's is hard to top).
I wouldn't worry about Zelda U at all. A Link Between Worlds had an amazing OST.
I wouldn't worry about Zelda U at all. A Link Between Worlds had an amazing OST.
I think of cupman and that Wii Mario game when I think of your description.
My favorite games always had music that helped identify that game or game series. Megaman, Final Fantasy, Super Mario, Sonic, and pretty much any game from the past. Music became sterile once they started to bring in orchestras and everyone started to go by the books on how to produce games.
Only a few AAA games recently released have done a great job on allowing their music to help identify the soul of a game. The rest have music that can easily interchange from game to game. That's sad to me.
Only a few AAA games recently released have done a great job on allowing their music to help identify the soul of a game. The rest have music that can easily interchange from game to game. That's sad to me.
I also miss the old school, melody driven sound of video games. Too many games, mostly the big western AAA titles that sell the best, just go for a forgettable, blockbuster movie-esque score. Kinda cool in the moment, but totally forgettable afterwards. The best stuff from the NES, SNES and N64 era still endures today for a reason.
My favorite soundtracks of last gen were the Galaxy games and Megaman 9... because I could actually REMEMBER the music.
My favorite soundtracks of last gen were the Galaxy games and Megaman 9... because I could actually REMEMBER the music.
Most of Hotline Miami's music is by independent artists and as such not composed specifically for a video game. But I think it's still a great example of video game music done exactly right - the music, in it's brutally simple beat, is an important device in the games storytelling.
The bizarre slow synths in the apartment sections make you uneasy, you get a tacit intuition that this guy isn't necessarily in a normal state of mind. The heavy tempo during the gameplay sections combined with the horrific violence works to overwhelm the player, to provide kind of a peek inside Jacket's mind - is this what the rush of killing feels like to him? Then when the music changes to a very sinister, monotonous beating, you know shit is going down - and in HM:s world, that's never a good thing.
The bizarre slow synths in the apartment sections make you uneasy, you get a tacit intuition that this guy isn't necessarily in a normal state of mind. The heavy tempo during the gameplay sections combined with the horrific violence works to overwhelm the player, to provide kind of a peek inside Jacket's mind - is this what the rush of killing feels like to him? Then when the music changes to a very sinister, monotonous beating, you know shit is going down - and in HM:s world, that's never a good thing.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I get where you're coming from and agree to an extent.
But Halo man. Halo.
But Halo man. Halo.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
I thought that Uncharted and Halo soundtracks were very memorable though. I can remember Nate's theme which is pretty "videogamey" and reminiscent of classic Indiana Jones films. In my opinion, some of the "East v West" in terms of OST comes down to taste. Some of my friends also loved Halo soundtracks. I've also been enjoying the Uncharted 4 soundtrack as well.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
You should probably get around to playing Ori and the Blind Forest.
It's literally what you're describing.
That's what I was getting at. Those franchises are what people think of when you mention AAA titles by Sony/Microsoft, which was what the post I quoted was saying was bland.
They have top-tier soundtracks.
To Far Away Times
Member
Japan (and Japanese inspired games) absolutely dominate in this field.
Music that is only meant to heighten the moment but not be remembered just doesn't have much value to it.
Music that is only meant to heighten the moment but not be remembered just doesn't have much value to it.
Jellycrackers
Member
I get a little bit of an old man yelling at clouds vibe from this topic. No offense meant
Super melodic music, at least in my opinion, just doesn't work in every situation in the majority of modern video games. Ambience and atmospheric music can be incredible effective at creating a variety of moods, and can be just as memorable. It all depends on what someone's preferences are.
I find lots of ambient tracks memorable. Not in the sense that I could whistle them (hard to whistle ambient music!), but I remember them for how well they compliment what's going on on-screen.
My viewpoint may be a little different from most since a large part of my living (soon to be all of it) is made from writing music - I'm a very analytical music nerd.
I also never played many older games. My first console was an Xbox, and I played a few PC games like Half Life (very minimal music) before that. So I don't have any nostalgic "Those were better days..." feelings about retro games and retro music. But ironically I have had WAY more work writing Sega Genesis and SNES music for games than any other kind...
To summarize my thoughts: I welcome the amount of variety in instrumentation/texture and genres in modern video games. Also, there are plenty of indie games that use the retro music style, so I don't think there's any real shortage in new "Video game" music. As far as what's "memorable", well... that's all opinion, so no point in arguing that
Super melodic music, at least in my opinion, just doesn't work in every situation in the majority of modern video games. Ambience and atmospheric music can be incredible effective at creating a variety of moods, and can be just as memorable. It all depends on what someone's preferences are.
I find lots of ambient tracks memorable. Not in the sense that I could whistle them (hard to whistle ambient music!), but I remember them for how well they compliment what's going on on-screen.
My viewpoint may be a little different from most since a large part of my living (soon to be all of it) is made from writing music - I'm a very analytical music nerd.
I also never played many older games. My first console was an Xbox, and I played a few PC games like Half Life (very minimal music) before that. So I don't have any nostalgic "Those were better days..." feelings about retro games and retro music. But ironically I have had WAY more work writing Sega Genesis and SNES music for games than any other kind...
To summarize my thoughts: I welcome the amount of variety in instrumentation/texture and genres in modern video games. Also, there are plenty of indie games that use the retro music style, so I don't think there's any real shortage in new "Video game" music. As far as what's "memorable", well... that's all opinion, so no point in arguing that
Acerac
Banned
This is what I was thinking, if you want some good video game music go play an indie title.
I'm thinking about booting up FTL just because this thread reminded me of the game's wonderful soundtrack.
GitarooMan
Member
People actually dissing Lords of Shadow's score? It was amazing and one of the best of last gen.
Muppet of a Man
Member
OMG...this would be amazing. It should just be the next Metroid sequel at this point.