knitoe said:I see you taking my highend estimate. It's plausible in 3 years. Look at 360 with 3 cores and dx10 compare to what was on market at time.
of course i did, it helped my point
knitoe said:I see you taking my highend estimate. It's plausible in 3 years. Look at 360 with 3 cores and dx10 compare to what was on market at time.
cRIPticon said:Of course! And that's why tools, middle ware, libraries and developers all need to continue building towards greater and greater number of cores. An example of a practical use of this in games are virtual processors (or actual ones with more cores), that fire up to handle complex interactions within a scene (i.e. lighting, reflections, physics, pathfinding AI, etc.) for a limited time then spin down or are reassigned. Resulting in smoother framerates while handling more interactions withing the scene.
While a lot of games are still developed as mono-threaded apps, this will be less and less the case as time goes by.
Stink said:Most of this already takes place on the GPU though, which has been multicore for a long, long time. The CPU isn't relevant here.
only if you include the Cell making up for the weak RSX.cRIPticon said:Sorry, not true. More and more of this is happening in multi-core CPUs as well.
Stink said:only if you include the Cell making up for the weak RSX.
Falafelkid said:IBM is discontinuing the Cell chip line of products.
Stink said:only if you include the Cell making up for the weak RSX.
cRIPticon said:You are completely wrong. What Tom's Hardware is testing is OS and current game applications running on multicore systems. This is why I stated that it is not just a hardware issue, it is an OS as well as a compiler issue. There are plenty of large scale systems that produce almost linear scaling across hundreds of cores (i.e Solaris vs. Windows or Linux)
cRIPticon said:To be sure, it is not a trivial task in the slightest, but clock speeds are not increasing at the pace they once were, so multi-core becomes more important. Watch MS and Sony invest in compiler and OS development to take advantage of this moving forward. Developers are going to have to learn multi-threaded app development, or the tools will have to provide this with a limited learning curve. Point is, multi-core is the future from here on out and the industry needs to get better, and they are, in fact, at developing for these architectures.
Gorgon said:Those large systems don't work within a gaming environment. There's a difference between crunching molecular/astrophysical/whatever data and processing game code. Plus that kind of extremely scalable OS systems that would make such a difference in the entertainment environment that you envision for future consoles ain't coming anytime soon.
There's a difference between it being the future and having 20 cores on a next console that has to sell at around 299 USD and actually expect those 20 cores to pay off in investment terms. Unless there's some kind of unexpected revolution in coding you won't be using anywhere near 20 cores in 3 years. It simply doesn't pay of.
Struct09 said:How many ever cores they choose for their next CPU, they should name it the HARDCORE. You can have that one for free, Sony.
cRIPticon said:Wrong and wrong. Revolutionaries at Sony. Go and find it. Read it.
Caio said:I get your point, but don't think to be smarter than Sony, 'cause you're not, no offence.
If Sony conceived the Cell + RSX there is a reason, and the result is very evident when you see games like KZ2 and Uncharted2. And you still saw nothing, the best has yet to come, in 4th and 5th gen of games. The CPU is very important in tasks such as heavy physics, animations, AI, system collision, etc and the only hypothetical PS3 stronger than the actual PS3 would be the same Cell + a G80 derivate for its GPU, but it would be too expensive, and Sony take care about these things more than us, believe me.
Let Sony do their job, they don't need our suggestions.
Wow, yes, wow : Uncharted, R&C, MGS4, GTA4, KZ2, LBP, Uncharted2, R&C : ACIT, COD MW2, AC2, GT5P, RE5, Mirror's Edge, Infamous, Resistance, R2, Wipeout HD, Burnout Paradise, etc etc etc etc = best console ever owned, waiting for God of War3, GT5, FFXIII, Versus, Star Ocean4, Heavy rain, MAG, The last Guardian, etc, etc, anything else ?
cartman414 said:It was documented in EGM2 back in late '93-early '94 or so, Sony at one point had bailed out on the project in its second iteration, leaving Nintendo to work on it themselves.
cRIPticon said:And EGM2 got it wrong. It was the Sony/Philips group that bailed on the second go around, not Ken's organization (Playstation). It was the same internal group at Sony that sabotaged Ken's organization (which, at the time, was under Sony Music I believe) and got Nintendo to drop the original PlayStation for SNES.
So, TECHNICALLY, you are correct as it was a Sony partnership that bailed out, but Ken's group only made one run at it. It was Nintendo's disrespect that Ken used to get the Sony management fired up and angry.
cRIPticon said:A 12 SPU CELL processor and quad core GPU already puts you at 16 cores. Not doable in 3 years? Again, please read the Tim Sweeney presentation I linked to in an above post.
This Moron's Blog[/quote said:If Warner would side with HD-DVD, then the format is gathering strength at a remarkable pace. The studio withdrawing Blu-ray support would be another huge blow, and most likely the fatal one, to Sony and the PlayStation3.
With Warner selling the most high-definition discs, retailers are sure to side with the studio and follow their decision. Then it would only be a matter of time before Fox and Disney jump ship and Blu-ray, as a home video format, can be pronounced dead.
cRIPticon said:Hmmm....as the PS3 already has 8 cores (not including the PPC and the RSX), they would have to do a lot better than that. :lol
Seriously, next gen platforms are going to have to have an order of magnitude greater amount of cores + RAM + multi-core GPU. While developing this hardware is not easy, it is more difficult to get developers who are used to programming a specific way to understand multi-threaded/multi-core code. Not many dev shops fully understand this and even fewer do it well. That's not specific to the games industry, BTW.
omg rite said:If Warner would side with HD-DVD, then the format is gathering strength at a remarkable pace. The studio withdrawing Blu-ray support would be another huge blow, and most likely the fatal one, to Sony and the PlayStation3.
With Warner selling the most high-definition discs, retailers are sure to side with the studio and follow their decision. Then it would only be a matter of time before Fox and Disney jump ship and Blu-ray, as a home video format, can be pronounced dead.
TheExodu5 said:I wish MikeB were here to see this thread.
Falafelkid said:So it isn't just me who prefers shooters with the Wiimote...
Falafelkid said:Same here. I recently played Gears of War 2 and while it is a great game, I can never go back to the old regular controller setup or even the keyboard and mouse. Especially FPSs have to be played with the Wiimote Nunchuk combo.
Falafelkid said:Hang on, stop and think. Would you play an FPS... with your hand? I wouldn't. Both systems have their advantages for different types of gameplay.
Sony is completely fucked now, though.
"Grand Central Dispatch" is just another case of Apple taking well established technology, slapping a fancy name on it and using it in marketing. It's task based parallelism based on a threadpool. It's what MIT did in 1994 with Cilk.Polari said:The quality of the development tools provided are going to be even more important next generation than they have been in this one. I'm curious, could a technology like Apple's Grand Central Dispatch be in anyway useful for game programming? Would something like that highly optimised for specific use cases within a game engine potentially provide an advantage for developers working on consoles with lots of cores? It seems to simplify the problem of multithreaded programming, but would it perhaps not work at a low enough level to be useful in gaming?
Durante said:"Grand Central Dispatch" is just another case of Apple taking well established technology, slapping a fancy name on it and using it in marketing. It's task based parallelism based on a threadpool. It's what MIT did in 1994 with Cilk.
That said, of course approaches like that are useful for game development as well. For example I know some PS3 developers at least use SPUlets, which are small tasks runnable on the SPU that get scheduled automatically.
Puck said:
"As long as we have a contract with Sony we will continue to manufacture Cell processors for use in the Sony PlayStation."
hahaUntoldDreams said:Just to clarify IBM responded and stated that they are still in Cell development.
They stopped developing one dev cycle for the chip line the PowerXCell-8i variant but are continuing with Cell.
http://www.driverheaven.net/news.php?newsid=344
EDIT: Which makes most of this thread (all the people who said DOOMED DOOMED!) somewhat invalid.
gofreak said:I'm sure Sony seriously considers all their options, but I doubt they'd make a decision for a 2013 machine based on the pecking order of these different companies today. A lot can change so their decision would have to consider many more variables than that. That said though, I agree there's nothing to prevent AMD getting into PS4.
Stink said:tasks that lend themselves to multiple threads, sure. That's not videogames though, surely you should realise this.
Of course, that's not what the original article in question was saying -- it was saying that IBM is not developing a next-gen Cell, not that they were shutting down all production of the current chip._leech_ said:Old?
http://kotaku.com/5411248/ibm-well-keep-making-cell-processors-as-long-as-sony-needs-them
Let's go back to laughing at the OP's blog.
Kobun Heat said:Of course, that's not what the original article in question was saying -- it was saying that IBM is not developing a next-gen Cell, not that they were shutting down all production of the current chip.
Kobun Heat said:Of course, that's not what the original article in question was saying -- it was saying that IBM is not developing a next-gen Cell, not that they were shutting down all production of the current chip.
As for the fate of the Cell processor technology? Well that will live on as well says Turek, as "the core technology of the Cell processor will continue to proliferate throughout the IBM product line."
Turek wouldn't comment on upcoming product announcements regarding the future of the Cell.
Zen said:So that means Sony will be going with another CPU (whilst maintaining Cell compatibility I'd suppose) or might they attempt a 'next gen' Cell on their own. Sort of a shame and probably throws a wrench in Sony's plans, but all companies involved had to know this was happening well in advance of any public announcement. If the Cell Road map wasn't up to snuff then so be it I guess.
I'd love to hear the reasoning's behind the decision not to move forward with the roadmap.
Don't worry, he's still among us.TheExodu5 said:I wish MikeB were here to see this thread.
Jocchan said: