Support NeoGAF

[ramuh]

This is a crazy idea. It's probably very very wrong, so don't get to mad at me. :/ Could this be related to SONY as a whole company cutting 5k by the end of the fiscal year?

http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/6/5384654/sony-q3-2013-earnings

Maybe big SONY said you have to cut some jobs even if your doing very well Game Division wise. I dunno. I hope they find their feet soon though.

 

[Wereroku]

Disney laid off hundreds of people after posting 8 billion in profit. Sometimes shit don't make sense.

All of these moves make sense to someone the issue is that we don't have all of the data. Sometimes cancellations are necessary because nothing is coming together and the studio heads cannot give an adequate timeline for completion or improvement. Its a question of keeping people employed and trying to fix everything or calling it quits and deciding its better to take a loss and write off the project. Maybe 3D Realms would be in existence today if someone had made that call on Duke Forever. Its sad and it sucks for everyone involved but generally I don't think it should lead to demonization of someone. I doubt Yosp or House are sitting in a room laughing about the grief this will cause for the employees being let go.

 

[Nafai1123]

It's not him who put Playstation on the front this gen. Its unbelievable that he's getting credit for someone else's work lol.

Cerny himself stated Shu agreed to make him chief architect...but I suppose he should get no credit for making the right decision in that case right? Or any of those successful quality IPs that he greenlit? No, let's just blame him when something bad happens and give no credit where credits due when something good happens...

 

[Mifune]

No. The vast majority of the team was working on Ascension. Stig's team is supposedly much smaller, according to some gaffers.

You mean the game that launched a year ago has the biggest team? Somehow I don't think that's true.

 

[Fbh]

First of all.
It's a real shame and I hope the people affected by this manage to find a new job soon.


Secondly
Come on people. It's a big layoff wave but there are still A TON of people working at irrational. If they are saying this is something like 20% of their workforce then there are still 200 people working there and they are probably going to keep hiring.

Some people here are talking as if they studio was shut down and they will never again release a game. Are you serious?

It's sony santa monica. Other than ascension they have only given sony best sellers, plus they have been helping some of the most sucesfull PSN games on the system (Flower, Joruney, The unfinished swan, etc)

 

[lt519]

Seriously, these are some of the scariest scenarios being played out. I mean Irrational and Sony Santa Monica are not mobile game peeps. They are at the highest levels of AAA. Something very wrong with this industry if these genius guys can't make it.

Companies making games with bloated budgets, no replay value, massive marketing campaigns and needing to sell millions to break even failing? Good. (sorry to the people that were laid off, that sucks, I feel you).

But something is wrong with the industry and it is correcting itself. When the dust settles these things will be good.

 

[Caronte]

rebooting a franchise that had a game last year?

GoW needs to be missed before people start calling for a reboot. #3 should have been the last one while the studio moved on to a new IP for a few years.

You mean like Tomb Raider?

 

[BlackBuzzard]

The Shu haters are just as bad as his cheerleaders.

 

[NeoROCK]

didn't they just move into a bigger office too?

 

[coolasj19]

The problem is that A)Sony hasn't shown much in the way of new IPs for the PS4 and B)They shouldn't have been teasing new IPs from Sony Santa Monica if they are just gonna cancel them. There was that sci-fi game tease in God of War Ascension and at PS4 launch Yoshida was like "Sony Santa Monica is working on a new project that you'll hear about soon...something scary!" Why have build up if your not going to deliver? It's a huge let down.

Conjecture at its finest. Could have been God of War. Actually, the same project could still be on. You know nothing about what was cancelled. We, know nothing about the project that was cancelled.

Why should he go?

Just the lynch mob that appears whenever SCE WWS does something someone doesn't like. It's the same with Phil Spencer so just kind of ignore it if there's no argument to back up the statement.

Demonite work at santa monica isn't he? Is he okay?

He works at London.

 

[Caronte]

Cerny himself stated Shu agreed to make him chief architect...

The final decision wasn't Yoshida's.

Hope you want the guy from MS to be fired too since he passed on Rime and Guitar Hero.

Just for missing one game (and they still have the IP too), it doesn't mean he should be fired. Unless you have more reasons, which we all want to know to see your point.

EDIT: He greenlighted tons of other games. Don't forget that.

You don't think he's at least partially responsible for the state of SCEJ?

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

He IS the reason why the PS3 was able to catch up to the 360 though. People make mistakes, calling for the head of someone because common things like cancelled projects and layoffs is asinine.

It was Kaz who made Playstation 3 catch up to the 360 with his directions.

Cerny himself stated Shu agreed to make him chief architect...but I suppose he should get no credit for making the right decision in that case right? Or any of those successful quality IPs that he greenlit? No, let's just blame him when something bad happens and give no credit where credits due when something good happens...

I need to see some evidence of this. Shu does not have this power Andrew House does since he is the head of Playstation.

 

[lt519]

Maybe big SONY said you have to cut some jobs even if your doing very well Game Division wise. I dunno. I hope they find their feet soon though.

They had ~250 employees when they moved to the larger building. It's a significant cut of 20% of the work force. Sony has well over 100k employees so well less than 5%. Either they are cutting the gaming divisions harder or this has nothing to do with the 5k reduction.

 

[casmith07]

Damn does this mean Ridge Racer is canceled?

 

[Nafai1123]

The final decision wasn't Yoshida's.

You think he would've gotten the job if yoshida thought it was a bad idea? The whole idea that Shu is terrible at his job is hilarious consider the praise of Sony's 1st parties. Games don't live up to expectations, studios underperformed. It's the nature of a volatile industry. The opinion that all praise or hate should fall to one person is incredibly childish.

 

[Jigorath]

People attacking Shu in this thread? What has NeoGaf become?

 

[ramuh]

They had ~250 employees when they moved to the larger building. It's a significant cut of 20% of the work force. Sony has well over 100k employees so well less than 5%. Either they are cutting the gaming divisions harder or this has nothing to do with the 5k reduction.

Ya. It could be just a Games Division decision. Or, they did have to cut some people across the Game Division and opted to go at a project instead of picking people off across internal studios. I dunno, just trying to make heads of it. It always sad to hear this kinda news.

 

[Sid]

Bad news...shouldn't have made GoW:A (especially the MP) & PSABR instead should have went straight to GoW IV on the PS4 but I guess Shu & his greed prevailed.

 

[coolasj19]

It was Kaz who made Playstation 3 catch up to the 360 with his directions.

I need to see some evidence of this. Shu does not have this power Andrew House does since he is the head of Playstation.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...hopes-playstations-legacy-can-match-nintendos

He also joked that this was all just part of worldwide studios boss Shuhei Yoshida's "master plan", which involved putting a software guy like Cerny at the heart of the project, where he runs it almost like a game director.

"The three muskateers are back," he said, referring to the way Sony Computer Entertainment had appointed his colleagues Andrew House and Yoshida to senior positions in recent years, while allowing him to develop the PS4 itself.

Shu most definitely had a very major hand in the decision.

The final decision wasn't Yoshida's.
You don't think he's at least partially responsible for the state of SCEJ?

http://kotaku.com/how-sonys-most-creative-studio-rose-from-the-ashes-1458030068

Yoshida took official responsibility of Japan Studio in 2008. But Yoshida's plate was full: That was the same year work began on the PS Vita and the PS4. Yoshida was stretched thin. Every week, he was in meetings with the hardware teams getting the Vita ready for release. And when he wasn't doing that, it seemed like he was fielding questions about The Last Guardian, a game that was surely going to be the next big game from Japan Studio, the follow-up to the artful PS2 greats Ico and Shadow of the Colossus...

"We launched the PS Vita and saw few AAA titles to suit the Japanese market," Yoshida said. "Everyone got a wake up call." The solution was obvious and it was going to involve Sony's Japan Studio. "We really have to support our first party," Yoshida remembered thinking. That was 2011. And by the next year, Sony brought in Allan Becker to make sure that the studio could deliver.

He also put Becker in charge in 2011.

I advise you to read the Kotaku article if you haven't already. It has good information even outside the recent happenings.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

You think he would've gotten the job if yoshida thought it was a bad idea? The whole idea that Shu is terrible at his job is hilarious consider the praise of Sony's 1st parties. Games don't live up to expectations, studios underperformed. It's the nature of a volatile industry. The opinion that all praise or hate should fall to one person is incredibly childish.

Yoshida does not have that power, House does. It's him who makes these kind of decisions, period.

 

[Nightengale]

This is a crazy idea. It's probably very very wrong, so don't get to mad at me. :/ Could this be related to SONY as a whole company cutting 5k by the end of the fiscal year

Maybe, but it doesn't make sense that way though. If Sony was desperate to cut off some resources that amounted to 50 SSM devs , they can easily cut off 10 lower level programmers from all their multi-team studio and have the same cost savings.

As it is, their approach to SSM seem entirely project based.

 

[Caronte]

You think he would've gotten the job if yoshida thought it was a bad idea? The whole idea that Shu is terrible at his job is hilarious consider the praise of Sony's 1st parties. Games don't live up to expectations, studios underperformed. It's the nature of a volatile industry. The opinion that all praise or hate should fall to one person is incredibly childish.

Yeah, fuck that dude that put Playstation back in front this gen...

It's you the one who spoke as if he made all the right decisions by himself.

 

[Mexi]

I want to know, the project that got cancelled is the new IP?

 

[Caronte]

I want to know, the project that got cancelled is the new IP?

We don't know yet.

 

[Nafai1123]

It's you the one who spoke as if he made all the right decisions by himself.

Mark Cerny

If you want to know what I’ll be doing in five years time, don’t ask me. Ask Shu Yoshida. It’s all part of his master plan. There reason why there’s a game developer deep within a hardware team is because Shu had the patience and the foresight to make it happen.

Read this and then tell me he didn't have anything to do with Cerny's relationship in the company and how he got the job designing the PS4.

Edit: And presuming that I was implying it was all his doing is as ridiculous and presuming that everything bad that happens is all his fault. That's my whole point.

 

[The_Hitcher89]

When's the last time there were mass layoffs at one of Sony's major studios? I know a few of them have folded completely, but I don't recall anything like this happening at ND, Sucker Punch, Polyphonic or Guerilla


Really unexpected news. Can only assume that the project was not coming along at all, and there was no room for the staff working on it to be integrated into the other parts of SSM


Hope they land on their feet

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

damn

 

[Deleted member 80556]

The final decision wasn't Yoshida's.



You don't think he's at least partially responsible for the state of SCEJ?

Probably. But I'd rather blame the person directly in charge there. Allan Becker went there for a reason.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Can we not devolve this thread into how much of a very very bad man Shuhei Yoshida is. We had that thread awhile back i believe.

 

[Caronte]

Mark Cerny



Read this and then tell me he didn't have anything to do with Cerny's position in the company and how he got the job designing the PS4.

There's a lot of hyperbole in what Cerny says. Yoshida was an important factor, yes. But he was not the only one. Sony is just pushing him because people like him. House is more important, but he has to be more serious because of his position.

 

[Biker19]

You think he would've gotten the job if yoshida thought it was a bad idea? The whole idea that Shu is terrible at his job is hilarious consider the praise of Sony's 1st parties. Games don't live up to expectations, studios underperformed. It's the nature of a volatile industry. The opinion that all praise or hate should fall to one person is incredibly childish.

If you're going to blame someone for it, blame Andrew, not Yoshida.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The final decision wasn't Yoshida's.

True but a lot of times the person that does the introducing is just as important or even more so .
Also i bet Kaz had the final say , so saying House more important don't mean much .

You don't think he's at least partially responsible for the state of SCEJ?

SCEJ was a mess when he got there in 2008 .
He has taken steps to make it better but he should have done it faster .
Which why i say PS4 first 2 years is the best time to judge him .

 

[Nafai1123]

There's a lot of hyperbole in what Cerny says. Yoshida was an important factor, yes. But he was not the only one. Sony is just pushing him because people like him. House is more important, but he has to be more serious because of his position.

So there's hyperbole in what Cerny said, but there's no hyperbole in saying that Shu is a terrible manager and this is all his fault?

Fuck this, I'm out.

 

[KumaJG]

This thread is getting out of hand.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

There's a lot of hyperbole in what Cerny says. Yoshida was an important factor, yes. But he was not the only one. Sony is just pushing him because people like him. House is more important, but he has to be more serious because of his position.

Who knows better the guy who made the PS4 or you? I wonder.

 

[spwolf]

This is a crazy idea. It's probably very very wrong, so don't get to mad at me. :/ Could this be related to SONY as a whole company cutting 5k by the end of the fiscal year?

http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/6/5384654/sony-q3-2013-earnings

Maybe big SONY said you have to cut some jobs even if your doing very well Game Division wise. I dunno. I hope they find their feet soon though.

no, thats pc and bravia, nothing to do with gaming where they are actually investing money... they cut and hire people in gaming all the time...

 

[Neff]

I dont get this at all. The PS4 is selling well and Sony needs games for it and for vita.

Sony is not rich and the games industry, particularly for Western AAA developers who jumped headfirst into Hollywood's business model, is falling to pieces.

 

[StoopKid]

This thread is getting out of hand.

.

 

[Caronte]

So there's hyperbole in what Cerny said, but there's no hyperbole in saying that Shu is a terrible manager and this is all his fault?

Fuck this, I'm out.

Where did I say that?

Who knows better the guy who made the PS4 or you? I wonder.

So the head of SCE has nothing to say about any of this? What's he doing there then?

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

First Sony shuts down Studio Liverpool Psygnosis even though they were working on a brand new IP as well as Wipeout 4 and now this. I am almost positive the team was laid off so the entire studio can focus on another God of War game.

Hey Sony how about making a big game that isn't another sequel to a ps2 or ps3 franchise? How about bringing back something we haven't seen in decades like Medievil or Jet Moto? How about making...*gasp* a brand new IP concept?

Yeah, i have to say i really don`t like what Sony is doing to its studios right now. One of the reasons i switched to Playstation was because i got sick of MS weak first party output and lack of good studios.

And now it fucking seems Sony is starting to do exactly the same shit... . Thats not why i became a full time Playstation gamer, Sony.

 

[Mexi]

I think we need some legit "insiders" like CBOAT to tell us what's happening.

 

[coolasj19]

I think we need some legit "insiders" like CBOAT to tell us what's happening.

We do have legit insiders. GopherD and DemoNite. They just don't say anything because for the most part, they are happy in the moves their company is making. And they want to let those decisions play out the way they're meant to. We're more likely to get something from FamousMortimer at this point. I'm sure his wild curiosity is making him ask around right now.

Yeah, i have to say i really don`t like what Sony is doing to its studios right now. One of the reasons i switched to Playstation was because i got sick of MS weak first party output and lack of good studios.

And now it fucking seems Sony is starting to do exactly the same shit... . Thats not why i became a full time Playstation gamer, Sony.

Wow. What was your reaction to Zipper, BigBig, and Liverpool shutdown? Did you cancel your PS4 pre-order? One layoff round, does not make a trend.

 

[open_mouth_]

Sony got tired of pumping money in games that aren't really bring back quality ROI or moving units. They want to consolidate for more blockbuster system sellers like last of us and to a lesser degree killzone.

They already have the third party and indie advantage like 360 had last gen. No need to invest money into duds. Focus on the big guns.

 

[ZoddGutts]

Haha this thread. Have no idea what you guys are even whining and having meltdowns about.

 

[Purple Cheeto]

There were rumors late last year that something like this might happen (or so I heard from a coworker who had friends over there).

Oddly they also interviewed a bunch of ex EALA people back in December but no one I knew got hired.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

I know this is extremely tough but why don't those 50 create their own studio and start their own game. I believe indie being such a new market, they can take advantage of that and become something bigger. I hope they do find jobs soon. I wish the best for them and it sucks they have to go out like this.

 

[Kiant]

This thread is getting out of hand.

Agree, I'm out!

 

[dream431ca]

Damn....

 

[Brianimaniac]

Isn't this where Hector Sanchez went? I hope he still has a job.

 

[Kenshin001]

Sony got tired of pumping money in games that aren't really bring back quality ROI or moving units. They want to consolidate for more blockbuster system sellers like last of us and to a lesser degree killzone.

They already have the third party and indie advantage like 360 had last gen. No need to invest money into duds. Focus on the big guns.

The big guns like Knack. I don't think Killzone SF is a system seller, it's a mediocre game with a tiny MP community that has been dwarfed in sales by CoD and BF. At the moment the only studio consistently delivering quality and sales is Naughty Dog. Almost every other studio has seen a downgrade in quality (GT5/6, GoW:A, Motorstorm Apocalypse) or lukewarm sales (Tearaway). Studio Japan seems to have become redundant.