Support NeoGAF

[Kenpachii]

Could try this out for AMD and maybe even Nvidia.

Seems like somebody has vulcan running in the game.

No clue if its real of just bullshit tho.

Vulkan Launcher

This Launcher will launch your game with Vulkan API.

www.nexusmods.com

 

[THE DUCK]

Adding this reply here so more peeps see this. There's a way to fix FOV with this app posted by The Janitor. It works perfectly including cutscenes.

Default unplayable FOV @16:9

And with the fix @21:9 with +15% FOV

Of course if you have ultra widescreen you won't get black bars or you can use it @16:9 ratio. Just add +25% instead of +15% for ultrawide.

While I think the PC upgrade is minimal for most people, the ultra wide comparison there makes me feel like I missed something that would make a big difference.

 

[sendit]

who the fuck cares? why does that matter in the context here?

Accuracy? Source of truth? In a performance/comparison thread.

 

[01011001]

Accuracy? Source of truth? In a performance/comparison thread.

uhm... it was never said in the video or in the title that there is a native PS5 version, but it was said in the video that it runs in backboards compatibility... so try again?

 

[sendit]

uhm... it was never said in the video or in the title that there is a native PS5 version, but it was said in the video that it runs in backboards compatibility... so try again?

Which makes the comparison moot. They’re effectively comparing a 3000 series to 2013 hardware.

 

[01011001]

Which makes the comparison moot. They’re effectively comparing a 3000 series to 2013 hardware.

no they are not. can 2013 hardware play the game at 2160cb 60fps?
also NOONE is comparing hardware. they compare AVAILABLE VERSIONS

like an SJW who sees racism everywhere, people like you seem to see system wars everywhere when in reality this is all about comparing what you get by going to PC over the best available version so far and to report if the PC version has any major issues

comparing systems/hardware is not the point of either the video by NXG nor by DF

 

[Rea]

I don't know if SONY implementation of CB was often used in later games last gen, to be honest. What I do know is that SONY wanted to make it as easy as possible for devs to implement, and that's why they shipped PS4 Pro with specific hardware for CB. The technique is possible on other consoles or PC using the shaders, but apparently it takes more time and is more difficult to get good results (or that's what I've read, I'm no expert). I don't know is CB the way was meant to be implemented on Pro gives better or worse results than other implementations like those we've seen in Resident Evil 2 Remake, Sekiro or Devil May Cry 5, but I think games like Horizon Zero Dawn, God of War or Detroit have an excellent IQ (similar to native 1800p using much fewer pixels, as proven by Digital Foundry when they analysed Detroid for PC). And of course other reconstruction techniques like Insomniac's Temporal Injection give great IQ and don't produce those CB artifacts in hair and fine objects that some people find so annoying.

But it's true that CB this last gen has been a little bit inconsistent. We've seen very low quality implementations like FFXV or Red Dead Redemption 2, but we've also seen excellent implementations of CB in most first party titles that use it or games like Sekiro, which is 1800p CB on Pro and native 1800p on One X and both look almost identical (and came as a big surprise to me, to be honest, because last From game I had seen -Bloodborne- has a terrible IQ even though it's native 1080p and doesn't even use any reconstruction technique).

I posted an example above where the hardware was not used in Death Stranding, even tho it runs on an in house engine and was published by Sony.

I am pretty sure most later games that aren't made directly by Sony work that way. that hardware was really only there to push developers to use CBR but after a while most either switched to other methods or just used software methods in order to be cross compatible most likely


also, slight correction, apparently RDR2 does not use checkerboarding at all... all that Rockstar did there is render the game at half the horizontal resolution, then stretch it to 16:9 and let the TAA "clean up" the image... with not so great results of course

There's seems to be some misunderstanding in ID buffer. ID buffer hardware in PS4 pro is not exclusively use for checkerboard rendering. Its main job is to assign the IDs of geometry objects and traingles coordinates in the previous frame then to be tracked by the next frame. It helps accelerate in anti aliasing techniques with accurate information. Hence it helps in geometry rendering, CBR, and even native rendering. And its very easy to code.
Look at this article, if you want to know more.

Inside PlayStation 4 Pro: How Sony made the first 4K games console

Six weeks on from the unveiling of the Sony's latest console and I'm in a conference room in Sony's new San Mateo HQ, r…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[ArtHands]

Just watched the video. I guess I can understand why this upset certain players on the old hardware. I hope they find it in themselves to accept one day, that it is perfectly fine for the game performs the best on PC and not their favorite hardware.

 

[01011001]

There's seems to be some misunderstanding in ID buffer. ID buffer hardware in PS4 pro is not exclusively use for checkerboard rendering. Its main job is to assign the IDs of geometry objects and traingles coordinates in the previous frame then to be tracked by the next frame. It helps accelerate in anti aliasing techniques with accurate information. Hence it helps in geometry rendering, CBR, and even native rendering. And its very easy to code.
Look at this article, if you want to know more.

Inside PlayStation 4 Pro: How Sony made the first 4K games console

Six weeks on from the unveiling of the Sony's latest console and I'm in a conference room in Sony's new San Mateo HQ, r…

www.eurogamer.net

yeah but the point was that not every game uses this. Death Stranding doesn't use the ID buffer at all for example even tho it uses checkerboard rendering, hence there is no excuse to not also include it in the PC versions of these games. especially since many other developers do it.
that was the whole point of the argument originally

Dark Souls Remastered actually used the PS4 Pro's ID Buffer but ran with 1800cb on both Pro and One X, and basically looks identical on both
they track object IDs in both versions, which is how it looks so good and almost native, because that eliminates ghosting and some other artifacting that would result due to sudden and fast movement of the character and/or camera.
they basically skip the temporal component of the reconstruction for 1 frame for everything that came into view/stopped being occluded and only use the raw information + nearest neighbor (I think) to fill the gaps so ghosting trails are either super minimal or not visible at all.

this works on both One X and PS4 Pro without issue in this game so honestly that ID buffer can't be all that crazy to replace with a software solution if the team at QLOC fooled VG Tech and Digital Foundry due to the lack of artifacting in the game, including on One X

 

[Rea]

yeah but the point was that not every game uses this. Death Stranding doesn't use the ID buffer at all for example even tho it uses checkerboard rendering, hence there is no excuse to not also include it in the PC versions of these games. especially since many other developers do it.
that was the whole point of the argument originally

Dark Souls Remastered actually used the PS4 Pro's ID Buffer but ran with 1800cb on both Pro and One X, and basically looks identical on both
they track object IDs in both versions, which is how it looks so good and almost native, because that eliminates ghosting and some other artifacting that would result due to sudden and fast movement of the character and/or camera.
they basically skip the temporal component of the reconstruction for 1 frame for everything that came into view/stopped being occluded and only use the raw information + nearest neighbor (I think) to fill the gaps so ghosting trails are either super minimal or not visible at all.

this works on both One X and PS4 Pro without issue in this game so honestly that ID buffer can't be all that crazy to replace with a software solution if the team at QLOC fooled VG Tech and Digital Foundry due to the lack of artifacting in the game, including on One X

What makes you think that other games not using it? ID buffers help not only for CBR also on native rendering.
Edit: essentially any game which uses anti aliasing uses id buffer.

 

[01011001]

What makes you think that other games not using it? ID buffers help not only for CBR also on native rendering.
Edit: essentially any game which uses anti aliasing uses id buffer.

someone at the team at Kojima did a tech presentation during some show and made it clear that they used their own tech and did not use the PS4's id buffer. it is mentioned in the DF video I linked a bunch of posts ago. he says it in the time marked part but also at the end gives the source for the info

and like I said, it can't be that game changing or anything when QLOC actually confirmed they used it for Dark Souls but got basically identical results on One X

 

[Rea]

someone at the team at Kojima did a tech presentation during some show and made it clear that they used their own tech and did not use the PS4's id buffer. it is mentioned in the DF video I linked a bunch of posts ago. he says it in the time marked part but also at the end gives the source for the info

and like I said, it can't be that game changing or anything when QLOC actually confirmed they used it for Dark Souls but got basically identical results on One X

My whole point is not whether CBR is using ID buffer or not. But my point is that ID buffer can be useful not only for CBR, but also useful in alot of other anti aliasing techniques as described by Cerny in the article that i linked. We also don't know that other devs might be using that hardware for anti- aliasing techniques but not for CBR.

 

[rofif]

same... they should at least patch in the higher settings available on PC. 4K + the higher settings would most likely be too much but the checkerboard 4K + the higher settings should be no issue whatsoever even in back compat mode

Not really. I am playing it now on ps5. It looks virtually the same aside from shadows and over sharpening caused by dlss.
The shadows are also affecting the tone so I am not sure I want it on ps5 too.

Anyway, checkerboard looks damn near 4k. At least I cannot spot the flaws really

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

The uncharted $10 upgrade is getting a 1080p 120 fps mode on top of the 1440p 60 fps and native 4k 30 fps modes. So it's slightly better than the GOW and TLOU2 patches, and the $30 GoT upgrade.

I also think it's crazy that Sony isnt doing what other third party devs have done for free. I was just looking at the FF7 remake differences and they are massive. They went back and upgraded the lighting in every single area of the game. Much is made about hero lighting on Aloy but the lighting on Cloud in every scene is fantastic. Same character model but the new lighting makes a huge difference.

Even KojiPro used their $10 upgrade to the PC high quality PC presets to the PS5, and added three modes all aiming for 60 fps at widescreen, native 4k and 1800p even at PC high settings. It's clear the PS5 is able to take a PS4 game running at 1080p 30 fps and run it at native 4k 60 fps most of the time during gameplay. So a 1440p 60 fps mode for Uncharted is absolutely nuts. The 4.2 tflops Pro running on a shitty jaguar was already 1440p and this fancy CPU, IO and RDNA 2.0 GPU can only double the framerate? really?

You look at other older games like Metro, Control and Doom and how they have added RT even on the PS5. ID tech did it from scratch. They are MS owned now and didnt even have to port a new SKU on the PS5, but they did anyway. It makes you wonder why first party studios who are already porting games on PC wont just build a PS5 SKU.

This ^^^ I'm so bummed about these amazing playstation exclusives being so disappointing on ps5. Never would've expected Sony to phone it in like this and not bringing some better settings to ps5 day and date with the PC releases is such a slap in the face. Uncharted 4 getting 1080p/120 isn't that special to me despite having a 120 hz TV. I want to see these beloved games taking advantage of the ps5 I paid $500 for. We know it's capable of better than just 1440p/60. I don't understand also how ps5 owners are seemingly so accepting of this to the point that I get called "entitled" when I bring this stuff up.

Totally agree about Death Stranding and Metro doing it right. Those games are more than just a framerate boost on ps5. Spiderman Remastered too. But the games I really wanted to see with higher settings are first party Sony games like UC4, last of us 2, God of War, etc

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Just watched the video. I guess I can understand why this upset certain players on the old hardware. I hope they find it in themselves to accept one day, that it is perfectly fine for the game performs the best on PC and not their favorite hardware.

Your missing the point completely. It's not that we're upset that the PC now has the game and is the superior version, it's that Sony made very little effort to bring ANY of those improvements to Ps5 (other than just framerate), despite us all supporting Sony and buying a Ps5. We get a measly update comparatively with the ps5's hardware not being utilized. Sony could have worked on improving the ps5 version in tandem with their work on PC, to bring improvement to things like Lods, shadows, etc. We could've had a game that justifies our purchase of ps5 and makes us feel not so burned by the fact that these games are being brought to PC.

Nobodies saying we should have an equally good version as a PC. We're never going to get another shot at an improved version of our most beloved and best exclusives like Uncharted 4, LoU2, Got, God of War, etc. We're getting 60 fps and that's it. Its disappointing on a couple different levels despite being better than the ps4 pro versions of these games.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

why no CBR option on PC? anything is better than FSR so a checkerboard option would have been way better than having that wannabe upscaler.

Their "wannabe upscaler" is a temporal upscaler, and there's also FidelityFX Super Resolution.
Both are better than checkerboard, which was nice back in 2016 and takes advantage of PS4 Pro's hardware acceleration, but for PC they're using better and more modern options.

also sad to see that the CPU usage is so shit, i really hope future Sony games will get better with this now that they have an actual PC porting studio

That's because they used DX11.

 

[DenchDeckard]

It’s not our fault that there isn’t a native ps5 version, so people can only compare it to the version we can play on ps5.

sony should absolutely make a ps5 port but I am sure they would charge us for it. So far now all these people can do is mention that it isn’t a A native port and compare.

 

[rofif]

Their "wannabe upscaler" is a temporal upscaler, and there's also FidelityFX Super Resolution.
Both are better than checkerboard, which was nice back in 2016 and takes advantage of PS4 Pro's hardware acceleration, but for PC they're using better and more modern options.



That's because they used DX11.

fidelity fx cas has nothing on cbr.
the amd stuff just like 1440p+ sharpening to me

 

[Physiognomonics]

someone at the team at Kojima did a tech presentation during some show and made it clear that they used their own tech and did not use the PS4's id buffer. it is mentioned in the DF video I linked a bunch of posts ago. he says it in the time marked part but also at the end gives the source for the info

and like I said, it can't be that game changing or anything when QLOC actually confirmed they used it for Dark Souls but got basically identical results on One X

ID Buffer is basically free ressources on Pro. ID Buffer is just a memory buffer that store specific data that can be used to do CBR, TAA or anything that deals with temporal data. It can be done (and is done) using software on any hardware, but it won't be free.

 

[ArtHands]

Your missing the point completely. It's not that we're upset that the PC now has the game and is the superior version, it's that Sony made very little effort to bring ANY of those improvements to Ps5 (other than just framerate), despite us all supporting Sony and buying a Ps5. We get a measly update comparatively with the ps5's hardware not being utilized. Sony could have worked on improving the ps5 version in tandem with their work on PC, to bring improvement to things like Lods, shadows, etc. We could've had a game that justifies our purchase of ps5 and makes us feel not so burned by the fact that these games are being brought to PC.

Nobodies saying we should have an equally good version as a PC. We're never going to get another shot at an improved version of our most beloved and best exclusives like Uncharted 4, LoU2, Got, God of War, etc. We're getting 60 fps and that's it. Its disappointing on a couple different levels despite being better than the ps4 pro versions of these games.

I have no idea how can they bring over the enhancements, (such as DLSS, Nvidia Reflex, keyboard/mouse support, control customization, GTAO and SSDO etc) to the console, considering console is AMD, not Nvidia. Besides, why will you need to justify your purchase with what other people are playing on other platforms? Its already impressive on Playstation, and you have the sequel coming soon.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

fidelity fx cas has nothing on cbr.

It's not CAS, it's FSR.
CAS is sharpening, FSR is an edge detection upscaling algorithm that also applies a CAS pass.

 

[rofif]

It's not CAS, it's FSR.
CAS is sharpening, FSR is an edge detection upscaling algorithm that also applies a CAS pass.

thanks.
I am not up to the date with amd stuff

 

[VFXVeteran]

Can we compare how it runs on the PS4 Pro's 1080p 60 fps version?

This is a 4.2 tflops GPU that is severely bandwidth starved having to share it with an awful jaguar CPU running at 2.1 ghz with no additional threads. Performing on par with the a 6 tflops rx580 and ryzen 3600. A 6 core 12 thread CPU running at 4.2 ghz.

You can't do a direct comparison of hardware like that.. that's completely unrealistic.

The PS4 has a different API pipeline than the PC API path. DX is way more "bloated" than the PS4 low-level API. Your comparison would be more viable with a DX12/Vulkan graphics pipeline (which is more likely being developed for GoW2). Even the PS5 API is different than the PS4 pipeline they have.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I'm not sure you guys understand development and porting to other systems.

Adding special hardware features to the PS5 SKU isn't a simple copy/paste. It will take more time to incorporate. The PS4 pipeline isn't the same as the PS5/PC pipelines. You guys are literally asking the developers to decrease their availability of developing their next new game by taking staff members away to port a PS5 version of a PS4 pipelined game. It's much more viable financially to just reserve some time porting the PC SKU and leaving the PS5 SKU to backward compatibility.

 

[Max Payne’s Baretta]

I'm not sure you guys understand development and porting to other systems.

Adding special hardware features to the PS5 SKU isn't a simple copy/paste. It will take more time to incorporate. The PS4 pipeline isn't the same as the PS5/PC pipelines. You guys are literally asking the developers to decrease their availability of developing their next new game by taking staff members away to port a PS5 version of a PS4 pipelined game. It's much more viable financially to just reserve some time porting the PC SKU and leaving the PS5 SKU to backward compatibility.

Agreed. I expect the PS5 version of the sequel to have more PS5 specific features vs PS4

 

[ACESHIGH]

What's odd to me is the choice of the DX11 API for a port that started development around 2019/2020. The team that ports Ragnarok down the line will have to add a new API to the PC version if they want it to perform better. And I am sure Ragnarok will run even better than 2018 on consoles as the engine matures so it will do more things with the same resources. A Ragnarok PC version will be constrained by the ancient DX 11 API specially on AMD cards and weak CPUs.

 

[MightySquirrel]

While I think the PC upgrade is minimal for most people, the ultra wide comparison there makes me feel like I missed something that would make a big difference.

Not just that. The single biggest upgrade is LOD.

Here you can see PC v PS5 [check 1m 40s] :




LOD is so ridiculously bad that it keeps changing every few feet at original settings [1m 40s], but absolutely flawless on PC [at start].